Talk:Sarah Rose Summers

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Miss Universe incident

So I didn't want this to be a problem but apparently it is, so what is gonna be the consensus on the incident involving Summers at Miss Universe. Originally, it seemed like it was simply pageant fanatics freaking out over something insignificant but their reactions have caused mainstream media to get ahold of the story, so now that gives a little more sway to including it in the article. Still, in my opinion, there should not be an entire section dedicated to this as it's not that big of a deal and that's not how Wikipedia works. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 16:56, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Re: Miss Universe incident to Jjj1238

I do think it is a notable event to be captured. I think it depends on the personal perspective, some find it's a "pageant fanatics freaking out". But many find it is not. Even if she sincerely express her empathy with the fellow Asian contestant by showing how they are unable to communicate in English, the action displayed the Western view of English dominance. I'm viewing this from an Asian perspective from a different part of the world and many of us felt deeply offended. I would suggest to started this part with her apology and include different view of the issue. Looking at the history of this page, there were many edits to include this incident and Jjj1238 has been consistence in removing it. I respect your opinion and your point of view. But I do think this event is a part of our current social view as the East-West power is evolving. We should be objective and capture it rather than trying project our own personal opinion.

Peace

{ [ ( Kevileo ) ] } 06:03, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

@Kevileo: I reverted those edits because this is clearly a serious issue that could damage Ms. Summers' reputation, and we cannot add it without discussing if it is truly necessary first. If it is decided that it should be included, then we also must discuss how to go about including it and how to word it while appearing as neutral as possible. As we are the only two discussing this and we each have opposing opinions, we are going to need more people to participate in the discussion and express their opinions first. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 23:33, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

@Jjj1238: I don't think this issue could damage Ms. Summers' reputation if we acknowledge this as a media crisis which she created. On top of that she apologized and both Asian contestant had expressed support for her. Moreover, today she still finished in top 20. Reason why I think it important for it to be included:

1. It's a notable event, you cannot google her name or Miss USA without finding an article about it. As part of this community we should be objective on both positive and negative events
2. It should be a media lesson for future Miss, especially in the age of live streaming which they have less time to reconsider and consult with adviser on what to say and what not to say
3. This event expressed an ongoing social view of Western dominance toward Asian. Though she sincerely expressed empathy for her fellow Asian contestant. It still demonstrated the subtle bias which is not uncommon among Westerner who first time experience Asian countries. 03:59, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

In thinking about this a little more, my opinion that this incident should NOT be included the article about Sarah is much stronger. I'm a professional event photographer who photographs many pageants. In the end, there is only one winner and a whole lot of losers. Being a pageant contestant is a lot of work, it's a long hard road. Loosing is devastating to them, and they need to vent and discharge their anger and frustration of losing. They need to find comfort which usually involves talking with the other non-winning contestants and finding faults in the winners is a very common means of release. I see and talk to the girls after they lose, and know exactly the things they say and feel. This is definitely NOT a notable event any more if she had cried, cursed, or banged her fist against a wall is a notable event. This is nowhere close to being a "media crisis" as one editor stated since anyone who saw the video would know this was just typical irrational behavior when someone loses, which we all do to some degree and we know and recognize it as being that. Yeah, it's in the news today because it just happened, but will be totally forgotten in a few weeks. To the person who decided and proclaimed that this was a display of the Western view of English dominance - that is nonsense - Sarah was venting against the winner, who just happened to be Asian. In Sarah's subconscious need to vent, she would have said something derogatory about whoever the winner was, regardless of their race or English speaking abilities. The venting by Sarah that you heard and saw, is NOT specific to Americans and NOT directed only toward Asians. Pageants go on in every ethnic group, country, and cultures such as Miss Asia, Miss Russian, and Miss Latina. ALL pageant contestants do this when they lose, including Asians. In fact, if I had to choose which race or culture does this the most, I would have say Asians are the cruelest. In conclusion, this non-notable, insignificant recording has no constructive value what-so-ever and if allowed, would be something that will define Sarah her for the rest of her life. Yellow Journalism should not be a practice or product of Wikipedia.Glenn Francis (talk) 11:27, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

To Glenn, first the lady did not rant out as a result of devastation after loosing. Please check the timeline of the event. She did so while still competing. And she did so on her own Instagram account which broadcast to all of her followers. Even this is after the result, ranting on social media to all your fan is not a good idea. Second, hope you provide proof before making a claim that Asian are cruelest. Without a proof this part is irrelevant. Third, she specifically talked about 2 Asian Miss, mentioned their language and country, if this is not specific toward them then dont know what is. Fourth, not everyone who saw the video think this is a typical irrational behavior when someone lose, she did not lose at the point she make the video. And plenty of people are angry, especially Asian. Please visit Vietnam and Cambodia to see how the public view about her. I agree with Diet_Prada caption: this is basically normalizing xenophobia. Fifth, try to check major news outlet, when you check her name from any source, there’s an article related to this matter. Just because you guy work in the industry doesn’t mean your opinion is weighted higher than the public view Kevileo (talk) 12:13, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing these things out. I would reply but a proper answer would be lengthy and unnecessary. At this point Sarah’s remarks are not on her page and hopefully will stay that way. Everyone makes mistakes, and no need to document them on Wikipedia. This is an encyclopedia – not the National Enquirer. For those who enjoy that type of information, they can watch TMZ, or if they prefer online can visit www.thedirty.com, www.lipstickalley.com, or Fox News. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!Glenn Francis (talk) 06:34, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 December 2018

 Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details.  Spintendo  12:45, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Miss Universe 2018

Summer represented the United States at Miss Universe 2018 in Bangkok, Thailand. She finished in top 20 Semi-finalist as one of the last Wild Cards winners.

Controversy

Summers sparked an online backlash when she posted a video commenting on the English-language abilities of Miss Vietnam, H'Hen Niê, and Miss Combodia, Rern Sinat. She later apologised and received their support. Kevileo (talk) 02:54, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

I don't believe this incident warrants any mention what-so-ever in her article. I watched the video and all I saw was insignificant girl talk. Girls like to talk, but they need something to talk about, and complaining always seems to keep things going. They do this so often that they don't even realize or remember what they said. It's the equivalent of complaining about the weather or how much their new shoes are killing their feet. Context is key here, it's not like she said this on stage or in writing. This is not something that should define her for the rest of her life. Glenn Francis (talk) 19:14, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

The allegations against Miss Summers are noteworthy and have been widely reported by reputable media sources worldwide, including CNN, New York Post, South China Morning Post, ABC, BBC, NBC, Cosmopolitan magazine etc. It is also the opinion of multiple users that this is a noteworthy mention, as evidenced by many attempts to include this incident in the article, only to be mass deleted by Toglenn. Is user Toglenn (Glenn Francis) personally affiliated with Miss Summers? Is he her publicist? Why is he repeatedly mass deleting this section? This appears to be vandalism... Uvwxyz1 (talk) 08:29, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

References

Vandalism and mass deletion of Controversy section

It has come to my attention that the user Toglenn "Glenn Francis" has been repeatedly deleting the controversy section regarding Miss Summers' inappropriate comments towards other contestants in Miss Universe 2018, even though the section is well-cited from multiple reputable media sources worldwide, including CNN, New York Post, South China Morning Post, ABC, BBC, NBC, Fox News, Cosmopolitan magazine etc. The section also gives voice to Miss Summers' own comments regarding the incident. Yet Glenn Francis continues to engage in mass deletion, which is clearly vandalism and neutrality violation. It needs to stop. Furthermore, seeing as the only photo on this page was personally taken and uploaded by Glenn Francis, it would seem that this user has a personal connection with Miss Summers, and may be her agent or publicist. Uvwxyz1 (talk) 10:55, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

This has been discussed before. We came to agree that the "controversy" is not relevant information to be included. Please do not add it back. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 16:23, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Who is the "we" in "we came to agreement?" It would seem it is only Toglenn who is Sarah Summers's photographer. To mass delete well-sourced, neutrally written material about an incident done by a public figure that is reported by every single media outlet in the world is preposterous and against Wikipedia's ethics. There is a massive conflict of interest and neutrality violation in this article. I will be raising this with administrators and the conflict of interest board. Uvwxyz1 (talk) 02:43, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Requesting admin help against mass deletion

This page has persistently been the site of mass deletions by user:Toglenn, also known as Glenn Francis, who upon inspection, is the photographer and possibly publicist of Sarah Rose Summers (this page's subject). The content that Toglenn keeps deleting pertains to an incident in which Sarah Rose Summers made controversial remarks against Asian contestants while competing at Miss Universe 2018 as Miss USA, which there is video evidence of. The incident itself has been reported by mainstream media outlets across the world, from CNN to Fox News, from NBC to ABC, from Washington Post to South China Morning Post (please see reference list, or simply Google the incident). Toglenn persistently vandalizes the information about this incident with mass deletions, even though the content is neutrally written and well-sourced, and includes Sarah Summer's own comments about the incident. Furthermore, the user has also engaged in racist speech in the post above, writing "I would have say Asians are the cruelest." Not only is the Toglenn personally affiliated to Sarah Rose Summers (you can see he is the one who personally took and uploaded her picture in this page) and therefore constitutes severe conflict of interest against Wikipedia's rules, he is using Wikipedia as a promotional page for Miss Summers and censoring information about her that has caught global attention. I hope an administrator can resolve this issue. Uvwxyz1 (talk) 03:11, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

What is your evidence that @Toglenn: is connected to Summers? Because he took one photograph of her and is against adding information to her article? { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 03:19, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

He or she provided the only photograph of the subject, and if you look into the history, has been consistently deleting information regarding the Miss Universe 2018 incident made by multiple users over the course of several years, as well as harassing other users. The information that the user has deleted is sourced by reports made by various mainstream, reputable media outlets (as listed above and in reference lists), and includes Miss Summers's POV. There is no justification for deleting this noteworthy and neutrally presented information. The user's comment "I would have say Asians are the cruelest" is also racist and highly inappropriate. Uvwxyz1 (talk) 03:31, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Well if you take a look here, you will see that Toglenn is a very dedicated contributor to photographs on Wikipedia, and has uploaded numerous photographs of various celebrities and pageant titleholders. I think your claims that he is somehow closely connected to Summers are far fetched and a bit inappropriate with so little evidence. As for the controversy, it was originally deemed unnecessary because editors were attempting to add it in slanderous way. Since it has been reported on by various news outlets, I am more inclined to discuss how it could be included, HOWEVER, it must be done so in a neutral way and I advise against creating an entire "Controversy" section of her article. Both the defenses of Summers by herself and by H'Hen Niê should be included if we were to include the controversy. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 04:03, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Yes I agree. If you look at the section that was repeatedly deleted, it includes Miss Summers' own comments/apology about the incident as quoted through reputable media sources. What do you find slanderous about the section? Looks neutral to me, and all the information is sourced from mainstream media outlets. It is normal for Wikipedia articles of public figures or organizations to have "controversy" sections for, well, controversial incidents involving them. As long as all sides have their points of view shown, I don't see how it is slanderous. Regarding Toglenn, don't you find his above comment "In fact, if I had to choose which race or culture does this the most, I would have say Asians are the cruelest" to be racist, offensive and severely damaging to his credibility? Uvwxyz1 (talk) 04:16, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

I have close the {{admin help}} template above as no requested administrative action has been specified. This appears to be a content dispute, and should be dealt with via the usual dispute resolution processes. Yunshui ^雲_水 09:11, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

User: Zuvwxyz1’s is a sock puppet with a history of disruptive editing who has been vandalizing this page under various different names since mid December with his nefarious agenda of smearing Ms.Summers. It appears he has this Don Quixote-esque belief that he is defending his race against what he seems to think is some kind of Western English Dominance over Asians, or some sort of nonsense like that. Contrary to User: Zuvwxyz1’s other delusions and false accusations, I have no personal relationship with Ms. Summers. I simply took her picture and posted it on Wikipedia, just like the other 1,000+ pictures I’ve donated. User: Zuvwxyz1 appears to believe that Wikipedia is a supermarket tabloid or a website such as Perez Hilton which specializes in smearing celebrities and other notable people for ”entertainment purposes” pandering their audiences who indulge their minds in schdenfreude. Everyone makes occasional mistakes, including outstanding notable people. The purpose of Wikipedia is to accurately present the accomplishments a person has achieved that make them notable – not as a place to slander and degrade them with over-blown, sensationalistic hyperbole, or a place to force your delusional perspectives.Glenn Francis (talk) 10:59, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

First of all, Toglenn should refrain from making personal attacks. His allegations are untrue, I first edited this article in May. I have noticed that the noteworthy incident in question have been included by other users in the past, but was repeatedly deleted. I reposted it with references based on previous posts while making it more neutral to include Miss Summer's point of view. I have been a Wikipedia contributor since 2014. I challenge you to present proof that I am a sockpuppet; as you have none, you should stop your personal attacks as it is harrassment. Second, this incident is not a slanderous or tabloid piece, as it has attracted attention from mainstream news sources such as CNN, Fox News, Washington Post, NBC, ABC etc. These reputable media outlets were also the sources provided as citations. Do you consider these media outlets and publications to be supermarket tabloids? Miss Summers is a public figure representing her country at an international event, and any widely covered controversial events merit inclusion in this article. Her POV is also included in the section. You are correct, everyone makes mistakes, but censoring them is not the answer. The incident should be presented neutrally and transparently with multiple sources and POVs for the public to make their own conclusions. I would also like the user to answer to his racist comment of: "In fact, if I had to choose which race or culture does this the most, I would have say Asians are the cruelest" Uvwxyz1 (talk) 11:16, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

To User:Uvwxyz1: The short answer is I don't want to see Wikipedia turn into a Supermarket Tabloid because of people like you. I've seen it before. It is irrelevant when you created your current user name. What is obvious is that you keep returning to this article under different names and reposting the same content, and then claim other people are saying this when it's actually you. I will longer respond to your delusional remarks, false accusations, and red herrings. I have reported your conduct to Conflict Resolution and advise you to cease your disruptive editing and let them make a decision. Glenn Francis (talk) 02:42, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

To User:Toglenn - Your smear accusations of me using other accounts are false, untrue and without a shred evidence, this is the only account I have ever used, and have been using since 2014. I only came across this article in May 2019. You can ask admins to verify my IP in contrast to the other users you are falsely claiming to also be me. Regarding the article content, all the sources from the material you have mass deleted are sourced from mainstream news outlets (CNN, ABC, NBC etc) and are repeatedly listed, not "Perez Hilton" or "supermarket tabloids" as you claim. You should know that you have also deleted Miss Summer's POV regarding the incident. Uvwxyz1 (talk) 05:00, 10 May 2019 (UTC)