Talk:Sergey Brin

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Good article Sergey Brin has been listed as one of the Engineering and technology good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
October 2, 2012 Good article nominee Listed

Patronymic name[edit]

This article lists his full name as "Sergey Mikhaylovich Brin". How do we know that his patronymic is part of his legal name? As a US citizen, it is by no means necessary that Mikhaylovich is part of his legal name in any way. I think it's a lazy assumption that just because a person was born in Russia, they necessarily have a patronymic name. I was born in Russia, too, but my legal name only consists of my first name and last name. Do we have any reference/source to support it? -- Northern (talk) 18:20, 1 October 2015 (UTC)


Is it true that he's David Brin's cousin? no -- 16:25, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

about Brin's Blog :: is this Brin's blog?

I am not familiar with biographies. Is it worth mentioning his appearence on the gameshow "To Tell The Truth" on GSN where a celebrity panel tried to guess which was the real Sergey by asking questions to Sergey and two other "imposters". Not really an award but is a Television appearance where they recognized him for his achievements. Brinkley32 (talk) 19:10, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Sergey makes more than a $1 salary this can be used to support his turtle conservation company165.165.237.50 (talk) 11:22, 15 September 2015 (UTC)Cite error: A <ref> tag is missing the closing </ref> (see the help page). </ref>[edit]

that should probably be fixed (talk) 08:34, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Why? Realize that his corporate salary may be $1.00 but the valuation of his Google stock would be much more, like $20billion+ Is this not correct? Yes check.svg Done: The page reads correctly to me. — Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 02:13, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Brin's philanthropy[edit]

Google co-founder Brin gives $1 million to HIAS Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society - "HIAS was one of the groups that helped Brin's family when it fled the Soviet Union 30 years ago." Also notes that not only are his parents Jewish but he is as well -- so is Larry Page apparently. See this article in the Jerusalem Post. Stellarkid (talk) 00:18, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

"The Brin Wojcicki Foundation, started by Google co-founder Sergey Brin and 23andMe co-founder Anne Wojcicki, awarded a $500,000 grant to the Wikimedia Foundation" [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:14, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Infobox caption[edit]

My edit summary got cut off, but I meant to say that it's not promotion. Wearing those unusual shoes is something Brin is widely known for. See news reports devoted solely to his footwear like this and this. Steven Walling 23:03, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Understood. But he's also known for wearing jeans and T-shirts. It might fit somewhere in the personal life section, but it's inappropriate in the lead caption. It doesn't have to be intended as promo to be promo. A photo of him sitting in boat shouldn't include the boat brand, or car model if he's next to one. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 23:21, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
We're not talking about absurd hypotheticals here. We're talking about something multiple reliable sources have given exclusive coverage to, and people are going to wonder about the weird shoes when they see the portrait. Captions are for explaining this kind of thing. Steven Walling 23:38, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
If part of the image is weird and needs to be explained, it probably shouldn't be in the lead. The earlier one was a portrait, this one is a candid with an unintended focus on the bottom of his feet, and not really an improved image overall. So having to explain what's on his feet is silly. I'd crop the photo or use the earlier one.--Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 00:01, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
Having a current photo that isn't fuzzy like the previous one was is important, which is why I added it. It doesn't have an unintended focus on the feet, it just has something that needs a caption. What's your problem with giving a rich description of a better image? How does it hurt the biography to have a quality lead image, and one that displays a part of Sergey's personality that has gotten media attention? Steven Walling 01:10, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
Because its, ah, stupid. Sorry to be blunt. Do you have some agenda here? If not, please do not readd. --Tom (talk) 01:31, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
Better yet, can we just get a "normal" lead photo and be done here? As suggested above, his "notable" footwear can go under an entire clothing section, knock yourself out. This article is already a disaster, why make it worse? --Tom (talk) 01:37, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
It was a heck of lot worse a little over a year ago, IMO. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 01:44, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
ok, i will strike my comment above. Its not a total disaster, but I do think there is too much detail(unsourced) in certain areas, if that is possible...anyways, --Tom (talk) 01:59, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
If most people don't want it, I won't readd it (of course). But that doesn't give you any reason to act like a smarmy asshole Tom. Steven Walling 21:12, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
I missed that personal attack. Coming from an admin, thats pretty pathetic. --Tom (talk) 23:58, 29 July 2010 (UTC)


I noticed the page was missing (2010-04-10 00.27 UTC +10.00) I did my best to restore (first time doing) Sorry for any mistakes Felipe1982 (talk) 14:28, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

"A small, three-room apartment in central Moscow"[edit]

The article mentions that "The Brin family lived in a small, three-room, 30 square meter (350 square foot) apartment in central Moscow, which they also shared with Sergey's paternal grandmother." but it fails to explain that Soviet standard of living was considerably lower than US standards, and during 70's a three-room apartment - especially one located in central Moscow - was considered a luxury in Soviet Union. Netrat (talk) 15:20, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

30 square meters is actually rather 300 square feet, not 350 (324, more precisely) — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:25, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Childhood in the Soviet Union[edit]

The section entitled "Childhood in the Soviet Union" is horrible. Obviously inclined against the life in the Soviet Union, it should be rewritten in a less confrontational style. I'll put the POV template to mark the section until the changes will be made.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:34, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

When posting a NPOV tag, the one posting is required to "clearly and exactly explain which part of the article does not seem to have a NPOV and why," per POV guidelines. This should include stating why the quotes or cited sources are not acceptable, or else providing other sources to balance what you see as unbalanced. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 18:04, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Regarding the text in the noted section, there is a clear off-topic text indirectly concentrated on the social, political and economic situation in the Soviet Union. I don't mean it's insane and should be removed, but it would be great to shorten the text and put it in general, why the family left the Soviet Union. Some parts are written in arrogant style, referenced with a story in the Moment magazine, which receives critics for its provocative stories like this. Hence, the main reason for the unbalanced content and the need of the POV template should be the inappropriate source.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 20:59, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Your opinion on this is clear, since it's fine to say you think a source is "inappropriate." But saying the references, as used, are "arrogant," "unbalanced," "inappropriate," "receives critics" and is "off-topic" needs support, not your personal opinion. Same is true with your example of a "provocative" story, which if anything, seems to support why the childhood material is probably relevant and accurate.--Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 01:03, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
If you consider the following magazine a right solution to reference the text in the article, especially when attached with its successive stories about how bad where Jews treated in the East European countries, and how they attained peace in the United States, you probably have a stance which is far from the neutral point of view. We're not here to write whether the stories tell the truth or not, but to analyze whether the source is relevant or not. My insight is that it favors the refugees (especially Jewish) in the United States, underrating the life in the previous countries. But you're still right when asking for any support and opinions of other users, and I'm pleased to wait for a while to see anybody else commenting about this. Best regards.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:11, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
The support needed is your own explanation of why a source is "arrogant," for example. It doesn't add anything to have someone else say they agree that a source is "arrogant," since two opinions are still "opinions," and opinions are rarely neutral. Another matter which you haven't mentioned is that most of the quotes given are not by the magazine, but from Sergey Brin, or his family. So if you're claiming that those quotations are imbalanced or were never stated, then you should make that clear. In any case, this is a bio of one person; there are hundreds of similar bios of other immigrants of all nationalities or religions. It is part of their bio only, and there is no logical reason why they should include similar stories of other immigrants to be "balanced." If you feel that the bio is "underrating the life in the previous countries" they moved from, you should simply add cited material explaining that. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 21:58, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Well, I propose to move on and change the matter, so we can remove the POV template to end this discussion. The text within the section is concerned too much with the social and economic situation in the Soviet Union rather than Sergey's childhood, his education and main interests as child. In many other articles the lack of such facts is not substituted with such off-topic text. Thus, it does not fix the problem of the size of the article. Finally, shortening the section would amend the matter and inserting the reference bar to the magazine story only once would surely be more reliable than it is now.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 23:13, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
P.S.In this shape, the section would be better for the article about the Brin family.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 23:16, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

[outdent] OK, I agree that this is more of an editing subject than POV, as Brin and his family are allowed to describe their lives. But where is this excessive concern with the "social and economic situation in the Soviet Union" you mention? If it's there, it can easily be trimmed or rephrased as off-topic. As for other cites and quotes about his childhood in Russia, feel free to add any. But the article doesn't mention anything about his family as "refugees." If they were refugees, as you stated, then obviously a description is valuable and probably required. But as it is now, a few paragraphs quoting his family's reasons for emigrating is not off-topic.--Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 01:12, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

It is not mentioned that they were refugees, but the logical conclusion of the sentence: "Brin claims Communist Party heads barred Jews from upper professional ranks by denying them entry to universities" convinced me think that they were repressed by the Communist party as Jews. Let me start by noting the parts which I consider not necessary:
  • The following part is not needed in the article, since it deals with the treatment of the Jews in the Soviet Union.

Although an official policy of anti-Semitism didn't exist in the Soviet Union, Brin claims Communist Party heads barred Jews from upper professional ranks by denying them entry to universities; "Jews were excluded from the physics departments, in particular..." Michael Brin therefore changed his major to mathematics where he received nearly straight A's. However, he said, "Nobody would even consider me for graduate school because I was Jewish."

  • The following is more convenient, especially the last two sentences, but Iit would better to shorten the first part, since it is not directly concerned with Sergey, but to the Brin family:

Sergey's mother was less willing to leave their home in Moscow, where they had spent their entire lives. Malseed writes, "For Genia, the decision ultimately came down to Sergey. While her husband admits he was thinking as much about his own future as his son's, for her, 'it was 80/20' about Sergey." They formally applied for their exit visa in September 1978, and as a result his father "was promptly fired". For related reasons, his mother also had to leave her job. For the next eight months, without any steady income, they were forced to take on temporary jobs as they waited, not knowing whether their application would be granted. During this time his parents shared responsibility for looking after him and his father taught himself computer programming. In May 1979, they were granted their official exit visas and were allowed to leave the country.

  • I would remove the text bellow rather than shortening or rewriting it, since there is nowhere to start and fix it. What is the idea behind these statements? How to define "impulse on confronting Soviet oppression had been to throw pebbles at a police car"?

At an interview in October, 2000, Brin said, "I know the hard times that my parents went through there, and am very thankful that I was brought to the States." A decade earlier, in the summer of 1990, a few weeks before his 17th birthday, his father led a group of gifted high school math students, including Sergey, on a two-week exchange program to the Soviet Union. "As Sergey recalls, the trip awakened his childhood fear of authority" and he remembers that his first "impulse on confronting Soviet oppression had been to throw pebbles at a police car." Malseed adds, "On the second day of the trip, while the group toured a sanitarium in the countryside near Moscow, Sergey took his father aside, looked him in the eye and said, 'Thank you for taking us all out of Russia.'"

In this shape, the section seems to be an interview with Sergey and Michael about Srgey's childhood in the Soviet Union rather than an encyclopedic content of the entitled topic.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:16, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
You wrote earlier, "The text within the section is concerned too much with the social and economic situation in the Soviet Union rather than Sergey's childhood . . ." Now you seem to be saying the opposite, that "the section seems to be an interview with Sergey and Michael about Sergey's childhood in the Soviet Union . . . ." In any case, direct quotations are considered a "primary" source of information, and here, as you agree, they are about his childhood. You also say that the descriptions are "not directly concerned with Sergey, but to the Brin family," and suggest removing quotes about his parents: his father "admits he was thinking as much about his own future as his son's, for her, 'it was 80/20' about Sergey." It's clearly on-topic to his childhood.
But I agree that it might be off-topic to discuss "social and economic situation in the Soviet Union," and kindly request again that you point those out. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 21:03, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Excuse me, but you avoided to answer completely. I understand your wish to justify the source, but the section in the given shape could not be. Maybe I'm not right in something, but as a whole text, it is not completely well covered. The quote: "impulse on confronting Soviet oppression had been to throw pebbles at a police car." is well cited and maybe is true, but I don't see why it should be in the article, what is related with his childhood here, and what does Soviet opression mean? There is also: "On the second day of the trip, while the group toured a sanitarium in the countryside near Moscow, Sergey took his father aside, looked him in the eye and said, 'Thank you for taking us all out of Russia.'", which repeats the displeasure of the life in Soviet Union again.
In only few sentences you can learn these things about the Soviet Union:
  1. The Communist Party of the Soviet Union barred the Jews, who did not have a chance for promotion.
  2. If you had applied for an exit visa, you would get fired for that and you should have worked many jobs in a short term.
  3. In 1990 nothing did change in Moscow after a whole decade.
To find all these things in a biographic article is too strange.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:31, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
And that's all incorrect views btw. Jews had a chance for promotion, but supposedly this chance was lesser than that of other ethnicities. Most Soviet citizens worked at one job and were happy with it. 1990 was the 5th year of perestroika and many things changed by that time. The society became more free but the economy degraded, and the latter might have been a more serious reason for being grateful for not living in the Soviey Union anymore. GreyHood Talk 23:10, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
As for the issue itself, we can't of course remove the personal views expressed by Brin or his family just on the basis of their anti-Soviet stance or their confrontational style and their incorrectness in the larger context. But I believe some attempts can be made to render these views in a more neutral and brief manner. The section seems to be based mostly on the Story of Sergey Brin, and I believe this book can contain much more interesting facts on Brin's childhood than the history of Jews prosecution, fear of authority etc. Afterall, Brin lived with his own dear family and must have had some happy moments too. GreyHood Talk 23:10, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
In reply to Kiril, I think seeing 1 & 2 is reasonable, as the history of Soviet-era refuseniks is known. But arriving at #3 is more POV. I think from the U.S. perspective the opposite is mostly believed to be true. It also might help to realize that most of the U.S. population was formed by immigrants from around the globe, and Soviet immigrants to the U.S. are just one group. The article cited, Moments, includes a lengthy section about "The history of Russian Jewish emigration," while the few sentences you mention are simply snippets from his own perspective. If the anecdote of his minor rock-throwing urge was trimmed, then the statement that the "trip awakened his childhood fear of authority" would be incomplete, IMO. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 23:48, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Since you (Wikiwatcher1) start to work on amending the section by mentioning refuseniks, I feel more comfortable to keep up and end the discussion. It would be more common to say that his parents were refuseniks rather than detailing the conditions in which they were. Also, I'm not anybody who lives in a country of the former Soviet Union nor in the United States, and I proposed the discussion, because my first insight when reading was that something is not in order with the text. I see another user discussing and I regard his opinion as well. There should be more facts about his happy moments with the family. Best regards.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 15:58, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
P.S. I missed another huge thing to mention. The user above denies the things which apparently are in the article and are mainly quotes. Since this is article about Sergey Brin, it is not a place where his stances about the Soviet Union and the life there should be mentioned. I repeat again my wish to trim it with "relatively" more facts rather than quotes of his opinions.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:06, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

I ve red the article and I am disappointed with all this Americanism in it.This article wants to show us that USA is heaven on earth, some promised land or something like that, and that the USSR was hell for people who lived in it. An interview pulled out of a cheap tabloid newspapers as a source, well that's just sad... — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 02:25, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi, I am not sure what this paragraph from the section has to do with his "childhood in USSR":

'In the summer of 1990, a few weeks before his 17th birthday, his father led a group of high school math students, including Sergey, on a two-week exchange program to the Soviet Union. "As Sergey recalls, the trip awakened his childhood fear of authority" and he remembered that his first "impulse on confronting Soviet oppression had been to throw pebbles at a police car". Malseed adds, "On the second day of the trip, while the group toured a sanitarium in the countryside near Moscow, Sergey took his father aside, looked him in the eye and said, 'Thank you for taking us all out of Russia.'"'

To my mind, nothing at all. It rather belongs to a section (for now non-existent) on his personal views.

Also, I think the section fails to render its content in a neutral tone, that is only as a set of (first of all) facts of his life and also possibly of Sergey's and his parents' memory recordings, but not as the editor's point of view. For example, in the first paragraph the word 'explain' was used in a way discouraged by the guidelines. I think there are more things that contribute to the mentioned feeling of bias, but it would take a literary critic to understand them all. - (talk) 10:31, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

For one thing, the titles of the two sections imply unnecessary confrontation because of their syntactic parallelism, and they contribute to heating: they imply comparison of the two countries instead of simply addressing different stages of Sergey Brin's life. I suggest to rename the titles to "Early years" and "Education": these names are neutral. Where he lived during these stages of his life can well be said inside the sections ("Sergey Brin was born to ..." etc etc). (By the way, the lengths of the two sections are disproportional: years of education are more important than early years of childhood, yet the second section is smaller than the first; this should be the other way around, and I hope that the cause of the current state of affairs is not a lack of sources).
Another trait that needs fix is composition of the sections. A first sentence for a section is usually perceived as either describing the most early events or as telling the most important details. In the section that we discuss, the first sentence immediately tells that Sergey Brin, when he was six, was "compelled to leave USSR". This detail of his life can well be true, but putting it first reflects the editor's point of view that this is the most important thing that can be said of Sergey Brin's early life; this is why other editors perceived this article as "tabloid"-like: it makes some details look more important over others without giving it prior consideration. Instead, the section should run in chronological order in order to avoid bias.
I hope these pieces of analysis are helpful. Please note that I need collaboration in the work of turning the article into a neutral one, as I cannot edit the article myself – both because of lack of my English skills and because I do not orientate myself in the body of the sources on the topic. I need assistance from the past contributors of this article. — (still me) (talk) 22:45, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
You brought up some good points worth looking at more closely. The first one, about a paragraph describing his visit to Russia, is that it could go into a whole new section called "personal views." However, it doesn't seem that his few comments are enough for a separate section. In any case, his views are really memory statements referring to his childhood, and are in context to his childhood.
The two sections under his "early life," Childhood in the Soviet Union, and Education in the United States are written in a parallel way, but they read as simple factual statements, not as confrontations or comparisons, and without any perceived bias. I've seen many bios where the city, state, or country is included in a title. For example, Charlie Chaplin, "Move to Switzerland," Stanley Kubrick, "Settling in the United Kingdom," Albert Einstein, "Emigration to U.S. in 1933" and Marc Chagall, "Art career" subsections: Russia (1906–1910), France (1910–1914), Russia and Soviet Belarus (1914–1922), France (1923–1941), Escaping occupied France, America (1941–1948), France (1948–1985).
You're right that there could be more background about his education. Maybe there weren't enough published details to add more. The childhood section is for Brin more detailed than most bios, probably because the sources interviewed his family about their immigration. If you can point to some more education sources, they could also be included to balance the material.
The section on his "childhood" does start with another fact, that his family emigrated, and is followed with text giving reasons why they emigrated. Whether or not it was the "most important thing that can be said of Sergey Brin's early life," is unknown, but it was obviously important. But including the fact of their emigration first allows the rest of the material to read more easily which gives background to their move. If the statement was put at the end, to stay chronological, then the section might have been too dramatic, with life details leading to a conclusion. That might add a bias to the section, making it read more like some kind of escape story.
It's also possible that there is a natural non-neutral aspect to a person's life when their family felt "compelled" to move due to hardship in their homeland. Some, like Chagall and Einstein, moved or emigrated to save their life, for instance, and details about their moves would likely be very non-neutral. Anyway, those are just my personal opinions, and others may have more to add. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 04:52, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Info Box[edit]

Is Sergey Brin's ethnicity really relevant information? Shouldn't citizenship status be enough in that area? I do not find it in the info boxes of other similar celebrities, as Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak. 62North (talk) 04:18, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Plus, it is wrong. His ethnicity should state Jewish, not Russian — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 06:09, 22 May 2012 (UTC)


Should the website link to a similar page like Larry Pages-- (talk) 22:14, 21 November 2011 (UTC)-- (talk) 22:14, 21 November 2011 (UTC)-- (talk) 22:14, 21 November 2011 (UTC)--22:14, 21 November 2011 (UTC) (talk)

"Sergey Brin was born in Moscow to Christian parents,"[edit]

How does that make him Jewish? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:18, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Sergey Brin/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Ritchie333 (talk · contribs) 10:46, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

I'll give this a go. No obvious reason to quickfail anywhere, so I just need to go through and check all the content and references carefully. --Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:46, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

  • Reference 3 redirects to and the original source seems to be inaccessible
Green tickY deleted.--Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 02:21, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Reference 5 doesn't directly contain the quotes cited. The article's title does say "knowledge is always a good thing—and that more of it should be shared", but not "knowledge is always good, and certainly always better than ignorance"
Green tickY Reference has quote in body. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 02:21, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Sergey's birth date isn't directly cited to a specific source in the lead, the infobox, or the opening paragraph of the main article - reference 7 has it, so not a real issue.
Green tickY Added reference. John F. Lewis (talk) 19:32, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Reference 6 and 7 doesn't appear to cite that his mother was a researcher at the Goddard Space Flight Center, though the other information in that sentence is cited. Reference 9 does cite it, however, so again, a minor issue.
Green tickY Source added. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 18:15, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
  • The quote "Jews were excluded from the physics departments" looks like it's attributed to Michael Brin, but it's not a direct quote, and appears to come from author Mark Malseed, who wrote the article cited in reference 9.
Green tickY Quotation marks removed. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 18:15, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Reference 13 doesn't cite any education prior to enrolment at the University of Maryland
Green tickY Education before 1990 removed until a better reference can be found (Search revealed 0 results for before 1990). John F. Lewis (talk) 15:58, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
  • "Together, the pair authored what is widely considered" - "wideley considered" is weaselly
Green tickY Removed. John F. Lewis (talk) 16:07, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Quote in reference 5 : "crammed their dormitory room with cheap computers" is actually ""crammming their dormitory room with cheap computers"
Green tickY Changed. John F. Lewis (talk) 16:25, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Google's motto : "of making all the world's information 'universally accessible and useful" needs a citation. A quick search brings up a number of sites that appear to have simply copied this article.
Green tickY Added Reference and changed as the motto is incorrect. Source: Google Company Website. Feel free add a new source if found. John F. Lewis (talk) 16:25, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
???? Despite being an self published paper, it covers the information that it is citing and Sergey and Larry are not claiming to be experts without knowledge in the actual subject. I don't believe it goes against the policy WP:RS nor do I believe it complies. Ill leave this for someone else. John F. Lewis (talk) 20:50, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Per WP:MOS, the last two single-sentence paragraphs in the section "Search engine development" could be combined
Green tickY Combined in effect. John F. Lewis (talk) 14:30, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Reference 5 doesn't seem to cite that Brin "hoped that some day everyone would learn their genetic code"
Green tickY Removed. Also the reference is number 6 not 5. John F. Lewis (talk) 14:30, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Not sure exactly what reference 20 is citing?
Green tickY Removed. Reference 20 I believe is a off-topic note used as reference instead of a note. John F. Lewis (talk) 14:30, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
  • The article states the January 2010 cyber attack "included accessing numerous Gmail accounts". But reference 22 states "Only two Gmail accounts appear to have been accessed"
Green tickY Solved. Updated the information accurately.
  • The quote starting "a primary goal of the attackers" is attributed to the New York Times, but actually comes from reference 22 - which is Google's official blog
Red XN All references around that quote are attributed correctly.John F. Lewis (talk) 14:42, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Neither reference 24 or 26 contain the quote "winning it praise in the U.S."
Green tickY Removed invalid information. John F. Lewis (talk) 14:42, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
  • References 27, 28 and 28 are all dead links, and should also all be formatted in the {{cite web}} style, rather than a direct URL.
Green tickY Removed 27 as a deadline, 28 is still valid and is in the cite web template. John F. Lewis (talk) 15:00, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Reference 30 doesn't cite Sakharov's first name - change to "obvious to [Andrei] Sakharov"
Red XN Reference attached to Sakharov does cite Sakharov's first name. John F. Lewis (talk) 15:00, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
  • "And in 2004" should read "In 2004"
Green tickY Changed. John F. Lewis (talk) 15:00, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Reference 33 is a dead link and needs {{cite web}} formatting (similar to above)
Green tickY Removed. John F. Lewis (talk) 15:14, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Brin's receipt of the Academy of Achievement's Golden Plate Award has no citation
Green tickY Added a citation from the website. Only valid once I can find so far. John F. Lewis (talk) 15:14, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
  • The NSF group's quote starting "he has been" actually starts "he was", "praised Google [of]" should read "praised Google in"
Green tickY Corrected. John F. Lewis (talk) 15:14, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Reference 37 has some problems with its formatting
I have formatted some references that were incorrect. I think I sorted reference 37 out. If not, Point it out to me again. John F. Lewis (talk) 15:14, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
Green tickY Found and fixed the problem. John F. Lewis (talk) 16:03, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
  • The "Other Interests" section has several one sentence paragraphs. These should be either combined together, or expanded. The single short sentence about Project Glass in particular could be expanded to give a brief summary about what it is.
Green tickY I have combined a few sentences and expanded Project Glass using the Wikipedia page. John F. Lewis (talk) 15:59, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Reference 40 is cited to the sentence "the first "offshore wind farm" in the United States". But the reference itself says "About a dozen offshore wind farms are proposed for the region."
Green tickY Corrected. John F. Lewis (talk) 15:59, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Investment in Tesla Motors needs a citation
Green tickY Citied. John F. Lewis (talk) 15:59, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
  • The paragraph beginning "Brin has appeared on television shows..." is not cited to anything
Green tickY Removed information, Searched and could not find anything to use as a citation. John F. Lewis (talk) 15:59, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Reference 43 is cited for the sentence "So far, Space Adventures has sent seven tourists into space". But the reference itself states "Space Adventures, the only company that sends tourists to space, has sent five of them so far."
Green tickY Updated. John F. Lewis (talk) 15:59, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Neither reference 44 or 45 mentions Brin has a Dornier Alpha Jet, and the $1.4 million figure in the article is $1.3 million in reference 45
Green tickY Updated Information and added reference for the Dornier Alpha Jet. John F. Lewis (talk) 15:59, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
  • Reference 47 is a dead link and needs to be {{cite web}} formatted.
Green tickY Seems to be fixed, I can't find a dead link that is not formatted with cite web. John F. Lewis (talk) 15:59, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

And that's it! I'm putting the review On hold to give you a chance to resolve these issues. --Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 16:44, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

  • Okay, I've checked through everything and it's a pass. Well done. --Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:05, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Image of Sergey Brin[edit]

Do you guys like the current image, or the previous one? It's pretty hard to find good images that are CC/CCSA licensed. - M0rphzone (talk) 05:00, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

The current image in yellow is a blurry snapshot. The previous ones are both better. Especially for the lead, there's no reason for a fuzzy 2008 snapshot over a 2010 one, IMO. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 00:37, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
I don't know if you didn't see this comment that I specifically made after I changed the image, or you did see it, but thanks for replying. - M0rphzone (talk) 01:46, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 3 December 2012[edit]

Please add the Bloomberg Billionaires Index reference to the first paragraph after the following sentence:

...Russian-born American computer scientist and Internet entrepreneur who, with Larry Page, co-founded Google, one of the most profitable Internet companies...

As of October 2012, his personal wealth is estimated to be $20.6 billion "Bloomberg Billionares Index". Bloomberg LP.  Check date values in: |access-date= (help); . Previously, Forbes listed $20.3 billion as his networth.[2] CubanellePep (talk) 13:43, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Not done: Information like this is already in article, and doesn't belong in lede in this fashion. gwickwiretalkedits 01:26, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

false statement that :" at Moscow State University, Jews were required to take their entrance exams in different rooms than non-Jewish applicants, which were nicknamed "gas chambers", and they were marked on a harsher scale."[edit]

So, despite I explained that the following statement is false -" According to Brin, at Moscow State University, Jews were required to take their entrance exams in different rooms than non-Jewish applicants, which were nicknamed "gas chambers", and they were marked on a harsher scale." - it is restored by moderator. Ofcource you may claim that it is opinion of mr. Brin (Seregy's father), but the fact is that facts reported in this quote are not true - Yes, I can understand mr. Brin's (the senior) resentment about some aspects of Soviet past and bitter feelings about Moscow University, but wikipedia is not a novel and to cite here obviously false statements would hardly be right...I am not very good in English language(sorry) and so I am not going to involve myself in discussions, but want to remind you some other articles from this same wikipedia about some Nobel Prize winners of Jewish origin who graduated from Moscow State University - look at this :

"Vitaly Lazarevich Ginzburg, ForMemRS[1] (Russian: Вита́лий Ла́заревич Ги́нзбург; October 4, 1916 – November 8, 2009) was a Soviet theoretical physicist, astrophysicist, Nobel laureate, a member of the Soviet and Russian Academies of Sciences and one of the fathers of Soviet hydrogen bomb.[2][3] He was the successor to Igor Tamm as head of the Department of Theoretical Physics of the Academy's physics institute (FIAN), and an outspoken atheist.[4]


He was born to a Jewish family in Moscow in 1916, the son of an engineer Lazar Efimovich Ginzburg and a doctor Augusta Felgenauer, and graduated from the Physics Faculty of Moscow State University in 1938. He defended his candidate's (Ph.D.) dissertation in 1940, and his doctor's dissertation in 1942."

There are numerous other examples of less known professors of Jewish origin in USSR....You may explore it yourself using this wikipedia. It is just to prove you that not only my own expirience contradict to this ridiculous statement that "at Moscow State University, Jews were required to take their entrance exams in different rooms than non-Jewish applicants, which were nicknamed "gas chambers", and they were marked on a harsher scale.", but also information from this same wikipedia also contradict to this statement. I think that it is your responsibility not to misinform readers - I understand that you report opinion of mr.Brin (father of Sergey Brin), but from reading the text a reader can't understand that this opinion may be not exactly true. I still recommend you to deleat this quotation - it is false and not nesessary even if you want to prove that Jews indeed had some difficulties in USSR (other facts pretty much prove that - no need to use false information to prove that) - so why to oppose obvious fact that this quotation is misleading? Please deleat it yourself - it is a matter of truth vs. false, not a matter of my attempt to prove my point no matter what.I'll come back to read your responce, but will not involve myself in further discussions, - I think that I provided enough proves. (or you may leave a quotation but to change the paragraph so that readers understand that there are alternative opinions about words of mr.Brin regarding practicies of Moscow Univeresity in Soviet times regarding Jews) — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:53, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

We cite a reliable source which makes clear that Michael Brin made the claims he did. This is all we need to do. As to whether they are true or not, we make no assertions. Our articles are based on reliable sources, not on assertions of 'truth' from contributors. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:55, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

OK, so I got the following from you :"Please read Wikipedia:No legal threats. Contributors making such threats are liable to be blocked from editing. If you chose to withdraw the threat (which will be necessary for this discussion to continue), please make any further postings at Talk:Sergey Brin as I have asked. This is not the appropriate place to discuss article content, and I will accordingly not respond to any more postings here. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:49, 16 May 2013 (UTC)"


so as you requested I do withdraw the legal threat (if you think it was one -I don't want to argue) - so, I understand your formal point, but there is also "impression" that the text provides and using information which is not true (and you probably have already understood that it is not true, though it is real quotation), so using such quotation may provide wrong understanding as a whole about institution? So, are there any special considerations why you think this particular quotation *which is misleading, despite it is indeed a quotaion of a person should be in the text? ...If you don'twant to discuss it with me, please consult me wether there is any other wikipedia authority (or moderators community) that can resolve this dispute among you and me? Again, I want to be as polite and friendly as possible (sorry if my English is not good enough to express it) and I am very much upset with your immidiate rely to strict measures (blocking from editing etc.), talking to me like a police to violater. Hope you will explain me your position or at least will give me appropriate consultation where to apply further. Thank you for your responce - it is very important to me (talk) 23:18, 16 May 2013 (UTC).

I have already explained Wikipedia policy. the material in question is clearly indicated to be Michael Brin's assertion, rather than an assertion by Wikipedia. It is cited to a reliable source (The Independent). There is really nothing further to discuss, as long as your arguments amount to an assertion that 'it isn't true'. The article doesn't say that it is. I suggest that you stop wasting your time over the matter. I have no further interest in debating this further. AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:46, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
As a student or faculty member, apparently, you might want to do your own research. For example, here's an article from the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, describing the university the same year Sergey was born. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 00:59, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Life extensionist[edit]

  • (cur - prev) 18:15, 3 May 2014‎ (talk)‎ . . (34,859 bytes) (+32)‎ . . (→‎External links: Category:Life extensionists) (undo)
  • (cur - prev) 19:51, 3 May 2014‎ William Avery (talk - contribs)‎ . . (34,827 bytes) (-32)‎ . . (Reverted 1 pending edit by to revision 606697944 by AndyTheGrump: Unexplained. Unsupported by citations or article text) (undo) [automatically accepted]

Sergey Brin's support for the life extension cause of the anti-aging movement is evidenced by the fact that he co-founded Calico "with the stated goal of focusing on the challenge of curing aging and associated diseases" and has co-funded the Breakthrough Prize in Life Sciences, awarded for "Research aimed at curing intractable diseases and extending human life".

* (talk) 02:32, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Corporate tax issues not biographical[edit]

The text below, about Google, is being added to biography articles although it should be put in the Google article, if anywhere.

Criticism over tax avoidance

On 16 May 2013, Google was accused of being "calculated and unethical" over its use of highly contrived and artificial distinctions to avoid paying billions of pounds in Corporation tax owed by its UK operations by Margaret Hodge MP, the chair of the United Kingdom Public Accounts Committee.[28] Google was accused by the committee, which represents the interests of UK taxpayers, of being "evil" for not paying its "fair amount of tax".[29] Brin, without a formal executive role, was not required to testify, but a senior Google executive was summoned before the committee. The executive made a number of potentially false statements, was warned against lying to the committee, and was told by the chairman of the committee "I think that you do evil".[30] The scheme had begun in 2007.

In 2015, the UK Government introduced a new law intended to penalise Google and other large multinational corporations's artificial tax avoidance.[31] Google was further accused of avoiding paying tens of billions of dollars in tax since 2007 through a convoluted scheme of inter-company licensing agreements and transfers to tax havens.[32]

References to the tax issues were also then added in the lead, after the part about the unofficial motto, "Don't be evil." An editor added this OR: "This view was undermined by revelations that Google uses shell companies and tax havens ...." Note also that the user has added this tax issue to some other articles, and a similar tax news story about Facebook. --Light show (talk) 04:51, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Firstly, 'Note also that the user has added this tax issue to some other articles, and a similar tax news story about Facebook' is rather a silly thing to say - these companies both engage in these practices, have been strongly criticised for it, and thus any reasonable person would deem it suitable for inclusion in the article in question.

Such has been the scale of the issue, the OECD has published reports on it, the UK Government has passed laws restricting it, multiple countries are investigating it, and the Double Irish scheme itself has been shut down to newcomers and is being phased out. The Dutch Sandwich has also come under considerable pressure.

The reason why this is relevant to Brin and Page specifically is that their holdings are inflated by billions of dollars by this exact practice, and aggressive tax avoidnace has become a core part of Google's business, with tens of billions of dollars in profits being generated that in normal curcumstances would have been paid to governments. Brin and Page, as Google and Alphabet's controlling shareholders, personally approved these schemes. Thus, inclusion is clearly merited. This is a key part of the OECD's BEPS work, so should also probably be added to that article too.--Relyiar (talk) 12:22, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Your opinions about the "reasons" violate clear rules about OR. If you don't understand the rules, feel free to ask what they mean. --Light show (talk) 20:25, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

AVL Trees[edit]

What have you got against AVL Trees Sergey? NNcNannara (talk) 14:27, 6 February 2017 (UTC)