Talk:The Avengers (TV series)

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"Kitsch, and very English..."[edit]

.........as an unimpressed BBC1 announcer described it during its last repeat. Like so much British stuff that Americans seem to adore, in Britain it's viewed as old-fashioned and rather silly. Remember, "cult" stuff only appeals to a minority, by definition. Dolmance (talk) 17:35, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

.....and what does that have to do with this article?--24.85.68.231 (talk) 04:57, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
Nothing of course. The comment displays a fundamental lack of understanding of the purpose and scope of an encyclopedia.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.71.52.55 (talk) 05:47, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Suggested Minor Corrections[edit]

Season 4,Episode 1 was filmed at RAF Bircham Newton not Sculthorpe.

Although it is noted on the page that other surviving episodes exist, referring to "the surviving episode 'The Persuaders'" suggests that this is the only episode to exist from this season. I'd like to suggest that this be rephrased. I'd also like to suggest that since one of the surviving episodes is named, that the other complete episode ("Girl on the Trapese") also be named - particularly as it is one of the episodes not featuring John Steed that is referred to in the article.

"Missing, Believed Wiped", November 2003 was the event at which "Girl on a Trapeze" was returned, amongst other notable recoveries. The article does talk about the recovered episode, but might be too general. There may be better, more specific accounts. OTOH, it would seem better to have a link to the recovery that is somewhat appropriate than no link at all.

"Amateur" status: Stating that Venus Smith had no "professional crime fighting skills, unlike the two doctors" is surely erroneous - both doctors Keel and King were general practitioners, not police surgeons or other professional crime fighters. All three characters were "amateur Avengers", not agents. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.108.101.3 (talk) 06:18, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

The day before Friday the 13th[edit]

I removed the following addition to the article:'

"Every episode took place on Thursday the 12th, as indicated by a one-page-per-day calendar shown at some point during the hour in an incidental way."

I've been an Avengers watcher for many years and I've never heard of this. Can anyone provide a source or substantiate this piece of trivia. It's cool if it's true, however if it is reinstated it should be placed under "Trivia", and I don't think we can say that every episode takes place on the 12th unless someone has information regarding the David Keel episodes. 23skidoo 02:32, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I think this anecdote relates to the "Thursday the 12th" page of the giant-sized calendar card seen during the faked dream sequence in the colour Rigg episode, "Death's Door". A short time later, when Steed and then Peel are shrunk in "Mission: Highly Improbable", they are seen scurrying around on a desk. The giant-sized calendar card prop showing "Thursday the 12th" reappears as one of the giant props on this desk. As far as I know the calendar page (being giant-sized) appeared in only these two episodes. MinorEdit July 3, 2005 01:10 (UTC)

Correct- I just watched a couple different episodes on DVD, and unless the dates were listed on the newspapers that were used as props (the print was too small to read the dates), I could find no other sources in the shows that would have given the date.Grynman 02:50, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Trivia[edit]

I can't think of a natural way to insert it into the article, but the character of Purdey from "The New Avengers" was named after the famous English gun manufacturer James Purdey and Sons. [1] Furthermore, Joanna Lumley's hairstyle became quite notorious. [2] That link is to "Hairfinder, the International Hair Directory". The 70's version was just as dismal and grim as the updated Return of the Saint or the Rover SD1, or drunken fat men. -Ashley Pomeroy 22:06, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Talking of hair, some accounts say that Linda Thorson's hair was completely destroyed prior to the first episodes being recorded, in a disasterous attempt to make her blonde. Also on Linda Thorson, there have been claims that she tried to perform all of her own stunts (much to the chagrin of the stuntwoman) and had some scripts edited to make this easier on her. I do not have definitive references to these.

Another tidbit. Sir Robert Peel founded Scotland Yard. So Mrs. Peel as crime fighter has a subtext beyond "Man Appeal." <>< tbc 21:40, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

South Africa TV[edit]

A recent edit states South Africa didn't have TV till 1976. That sounds a bit late. Can anyone confirm that? 23skidoo 06:06, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

A Touch of Brimstone[edit]

Could someone please take a look at A Touch of Brimstone and judge whether it should be merged or not. The JPS 22:03, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

IMO Avengers episodes are notable enough to warrant their own articles, just as is being done with Star Trek, Doctor Who and other shows. However there needs to be a bit more than is shown here. This needs to be expanded, and if it's the only episode with an article, then more episode articles need to be written. 23skidoo 22:42, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
Skidoo is right: If there is enough information about an episode, it should have its own article. Article-worthiness should be determined by the amount of information available about an item, not by somembody's perceived significance of the item as such. The information presented by Wikipedia should be all-encompassing, or encyclopedic if you will.

New Avengers[edit]

Looking things over, I saw no reason why New Avengers shouldn't be an article by itself. After all there are separate articles for, say, Star Trek: The Next Generation which was also a sequel/revival of an older series. I have created The New Avengers (TV series) and moved most of the show information there. 23skidoo 16:58, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Clemens[edit]

Should there be more behind-the-scenes information in the article? It seems odd that neither Brian Clemens nor Laurie Johnson are mentioned, for example. --Whouk (talk) 09:58, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Feel free to add more material. I haven't gotten around to talking about the music, for example. (If you mention Johnson, don't forget Johnny Dankworth, too). 23skidoo 15:36, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
I have made a modest start of a production team section (although feel free to integrate this differently). There's obviously loads more information that should go in but it's a start. --Whouk (talk) 19:32, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Prime time success[edit]

I made a small adjustment to the caption on the new TV Guide image. To my understanding The Avengers was not the first British series to be a prime-time success in the US as both The Saint and Secret Agent (a.k.a. Danger Man) had both aired in prime time in the US (and did well) before The Avengers came over. 23skidoo 19:13, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Editing the article just now, I see where the "first" comment comes from, though it says it was the first to be shown in the US without alteration. This is incorrect as the famous chessboard prologue was, I believe, added to the American version and didn't appear on the original UK broadcast. 23skidoo 19:29, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Hmm what about "The Adventures of Robin Hood"? on CBS in 1955, doesn't that count as the first British series screened in primetime?81.111.126.82 (talk) 12:52, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Hot Snow DVD release[edit]

I just saw for the first time a copy of the new Emma Peel Collection DVD set that A&E has put out. They're including a bonus disc that includes the three episodes known to exist from the first season. There's no indication that Hot Snow, which is included, is incomplete. Does anyone know if a complete version has been discovered? 23skidoo 23:00, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I deleted my question from earlier as the Amazon site confirms that Hot Snow is only 15 minutes or so long. I left the rest of my comment for interest's sake. 23skidoo 23:02, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Episodes transfer to own article...[edit]

Frankly, they're crowding up the page and should best be kept in its own article connected hereto.. DrWho42 03:36, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I'll transfer them now. —Whouk (talk) 08:20, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
And now done. The page was 48kb - now it's below the 32kb warning level. —Whouk (talk) 08:36, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Ian Hendry image[edit]

Now that magazine covers have been effectively banned from Wikipedia, we're left with no image of Ian Hendry's David Keel. Does anyone have an alternate image they can upload, perhaps a screen capture from the recent DVD release of the season 1 episodes? 23skidoo 13:26, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Diana Rigg[edit]

I felt that each of the three main "assistants" deserved an image, especially the one from the most well-rememberd Avengers episodes. laddiebuck 01:53, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

There used to be one, but it was lost when Wikipedia cracked down on magazine cover images. We should also have an Ian Hendry image, too. (It was also lost when the magazines were taken away). 23skidoo 19:08, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:AvengersBook1.jpg[edit]

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Image:AvengersBook1.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Ratings[edit]

Hi:

I think the article could do with a bit about how well the show did in its ratings. It seems that every box set describes the series as a cult show, but my understanding is that the show was hardly the enthusiasm of a few dedicated fans, but wildly popular. There was a real spy craze at the time on television (Man from Uncle, Mission Impossible, and innumerable cookie-cutter offerings from ITV) so how well did The Avengers do in such a crowded marketplace?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgGReUTkZVI

Just wondering.

AG

External Link[edit]

I added the site theavengerstv.com which links amongst others to The Avengers Forever website. This and the other sites give a comprehensive overview of all relating to The Avengers. This link was removed as it was just a "fan site". I feel it should be added as there are no better sites around if you need/want more information. Is there any reason this cannot be added, I wonder? Bigar 08:23, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

  • There's marked discrimination (that some claim is supported by policy) that pretty much prohibits the citing of any websites that aren't "official" when referring to pop culture topics. Of course no one bats an eye when websites that are basically fan sites for politicians and political parties are cited ... 68.146.41.232 16:55, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Authorized Australian fan fiction?[edit]

I'm calling doubt on the statement that the 4-volume Australian set added to the bibliography was truly authorised. I can find nothing to support this, and if it were authorised it would have been published elsewhere. Can anyone provide a citation to support that the four releases were in fact authorized? 68.146.41.232 16:55, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Steed-tara.jpg[edit]

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Image:Steed-tara.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:18, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Wrong network...[edit]

This was classified as being from the American Broadcasting Company, but it's actually from the OTHER ABC(Associated British Corporation) in England...pleas re-classify it under "British TV dramas"...Michaela92399 (talk) 17:52, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:CathyGale.jpg[edit]

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Image:CathyGale.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:44, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Emma-Peel Avengers-Intro.jpg[edit]

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Image:Emma-Peel Avengers-Intro.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:58, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


Plot introduction of some sort?[edit]

Hi, I'm someone who's only marginally familiar with the TV series (as in, I know it was a popular British TV show, and that's about it), and checked this page looking for some sort of plot introduction. Unfortunately, the "program premise" section seems too cluttered with production details to easily convey the plot. While I managed to find the plot elsewhere, I would suggest perhaps creating separate "plot" and "production" areas (possibly even a "influence on popular culture" area). I would myself, but I'm assuming someone only marginally familiar with the series is probably not the best person to be doing so. -Egocentrism04 (talk) 01:50, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Are you perhaps looking for something that doesn't exist? Each episode has a plot, but the series as a whole has none – nor even (at least in the Emma Peel period) much of a coherent premise: we never know who gives Steed his assignments, and the cases are more varied than the plausible concerns of any one agency. —Tamfang (talk) 04:18, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
I have to agree with Tamfang. It's pretty cut-and-dried. The premise is pretty much covered and the fact is it does change with each passing era, and I feel this is explained sufficiently. 23skidoo (talk) 07:00, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
There's room, though, for an explicit mention of this vagueness. —Tamfang (talk) 08:12, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
That is true. Please feel free to add something if you haven't already. And I'm not saying this article would be harmed if someone were to add a "basic premise" section at the top, either; I just felt it was already covered in what's here already. But WP:BOLD always applies. 23skidoo (talk) 17:22, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
I should perhaps mention that I can't comment on pre-Peel seasons. —Tamfang (talk) 01:26, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
The details are all in the article really. It's two people fighting crime and spies under orders of the government. The only main difference is that the nature of these orders change, from Steed/Keel and Steed/Gale getting them from One-Ten, to Steed acting on his own (answered to never-seen superiors) in the Peel era, to Steed/King working with Mother at the end, back to Steed working apparently on his own in the New Avengers. 23skidoo (talk) 14:17, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

And the countdown is on till the main image is deleted[edit]

Considering the book cover image was deleted, I estimate a short lifespan for the calendar cover now being used as the main image. 68.146.81.123 (talk) 19:21, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Got to admit, I'm surprised the calendar image is still there. Has Wikipedia relaxed its image use rules? 68.146.81.123 (talk) 18:51, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Banned episode[edit]

The banning of A Touch of Brimstone is a major part of Avengers history, yet it appears to have been omitted from the article. I have added this reference, with information taken from two longstanding and respected websites. If you don't like these sources, I am 100% certain it is referenced in Macnee's autobiography as well as the Dave Rogers reference books, but I don't possess any personally; feel free to replace the citations with ones from those print sources. 68.146.81.123 (talk) 12:57, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Macnee, then living in his native England, would not be expected to know about this at all. I used to have Rogers' The Avengers and The Complete Avengers, and saw no note to that effect. The original USA showings on our ABC network were initially so sporadic that I didn't see most of Rigg's b/w episodes until the series turned up later (where I was living, much later) in syndication, so I can't make any statement about this ban one way or another beyond that this is the first I've heard about it. However, I will not challenge those sources that ABC didn't air it, though I doubt censorship was the only reason, given the other four. --Tbrittreid (talk) 00:04, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
Where was the episode suposedly band? I've seen no mention of this anywhere and I'm quite the fan of this show and Peter Wyngarde who guest starred in the episode.(Morcus (talk) 18:49, 14 December 2009 (UTC))
It was banned on first US transmission of the series i.e, not screened on first run along with five other episodes and a few UK regional stations were going to pull it from transmission if it was not edited, it was infact edited with the whipping of Rigg during the final sequence by Peter Wyngarde cut to just one crack and not the five or six cracks you can see on DVD today.86.5.134.132 (talk) 21:24, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

DVD release.[edit]

Last time I tried to buy the Avengers on DVD there was very little available, now it seems that every series is available as a box set bar the first, does anyone know when they came out or anything about them.(Morcus (talk) 18:51, 14 December 2009 (UTC))

Season Four voice over[edit]

Can anybody verify that the Season Four voice over begins, "Extraordinary crimes against the people and the state..."? I'm pretty confident that "the people" isn't in there, but I haven't seen these with the prologue attached since A&E ran them in the early 90s (the VHSs here didn't have the prologue, and BBC America has run only colour episodes of vintage programmes), so I may be wrong. Understand, however, that "the state" jumped out at me, as in the UK the phrase would have been "against the crown," making me pay attention to the whole speech. Help. Please. --Tbrittreid (talk) 21:51, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

I don't know which season(s), but I've certainly heard either "the people, and the state," or "the state, and the people". (It's pronounced with the comma.) —Tamfang (talk) 03:46, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
I would agree with Tamfang. My 64 year old brain remembers the prologue as it is presented in the article.THX1136 (talk) 19:24, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

The Avengers' London[edit]

I recall this being mentioned by critics during the original run. The London of The Avengers was weirdly empty (no traffic, no passers by, no crowds); I think this was one of the elements that made the show so unique. Does anybody know if this was a deliberate design choice or just a happy accident driven by budget limitations? Aileron Spades (talk) 06:43, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I have a nice quote from Dennis Spooner on this very point which I shall add to the article. Hope you like. Format (talk) 07:15, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Rhonda Parker actress The Avengers[edit]

Does anyone know where Rhonda Parker is today???? jctlc@hotmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.58.29.74 (talk) 14:24, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Where is she now?[edit]

Can someone please tell me where Rhonda Parker, actress in The Avengers, is today? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Duckinanddivin (talkcontribs) 14:35, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

UK Tx of Colour Rigg Episodes 1960s[edit]

Not that I suppose its considered important but, from what I can gather when originally broadcast in the UK the 1st 16 Rigg colour episodes in some (all?) regions, were if anyone can remember this, the same length as the channel 4 repeat run episodes in the early 80's, i.e. about 45/46 mins long and without the: in color/prologue and the opening/closing tag sequences and 4 mins of programme content removed. Also some regions such as Rediffusion (London)/Yorkshire TV screened similarly short versions of the black and white Rigg episodes on first run as well. It seems only the last eight Rigg's may have been shown complete or maybe not?. 81.111.127.132 (talk) 09:59, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Deleted information[edit]

The following paragraph was deleted:

Other aspects were more restrained because of British television rules, such as the physical combat limitations. Gunshots had to miss and striking someone with a closed fist was not allowed. As a result, Steed and his partners defeated their opponents by throwing them into walls, making them stumble and fall after pushing them into furniture, and slapping them in the face with an open hand. Compared to the fighting styles depicted in U.S. shows like I Spy and The Wild Wild West, The Avengers was tagged as being "too British".

I deleted this for a few reasons. First, it provides no sourcing for this claim. I have no idea what "British television rules" are being referred to here, but if one actually watches The Avengers one sees that people are shot frequently - often by the good guys - and the "pushing them to stumble and fall" method of defeating villains is ridiculous and doesn't actually exist in the series. Emma Peel was often shown using open hand strikes because that was the method of martial arts she used. Steed shot villains to death in numerous episodes until Macnee decided during production of Emma Peel's first season that Steed should rarely carry, much less use a gun. Even the most casual of examinations of British television of the time - The Saint, Danger Man, etc - show no evidence of the so-called "British television rules" referenced here. Lastly there was no source or proof provided for the "too British" tagging. So I removed the paragraph. 68.146.72.113 (talk) 14:32, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

  • I think the problem stems from the original article being, or being copied, from an American source and probably a whole lot more of the text needs to be "adjusted".81.111.126.82 (talk) 00:28, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Page move request[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
Dr B has already given a "No don't move it" statement. MarnetteD

I believe most people searching for The Avengers will be looking for this. I think its by far the most notable The Avengers. Besides, most of the others are actually Avengers rather than The Avengers. I propose to move this to simply The Avengers and then other uses moved to the Avengers (disambiguation) page.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:37, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

I have to disagree with you, Doc. For older folks like myself, the series is remembered with fondness; but the American comics series has been around since the late 1960s, and is getting a multi-million-dollar publicity boost with the upcoming film(s). The word just has too many potential meanings; I think the current disambiguation is the best arrangement, and I really believe you'd be swimming against the tide of popular culture on this one. A couple of years ago, the motion might have had a chance; but not now. --Orange Mike | Talk 12:48, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Oppose - Depending on your cultural upbringing, you may think of the show or you may think of the comic. Kids of today are going to think of the film. I think that it is better for the show to remain ambiguated.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 13:08, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
Ah yes the 2012 film is called The Avengers too and several of the animated series are too. The Avengers (2012 film) I'd say would probably get the most page requests right now. Fair enough. I have no strong opinion. But a google book search tells me which Avengers is the most notable.♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:03, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Oppose I think that this is a case of "if it ain't broke don't fix it". I was interested to see that there are several uses of the term beyond this show and the comics on the DAB page and that adds to the reasoning of OrangeMike and Bignole to leave things as they are. MarnetteD | Talk 15:26, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
OK I get the message. No don't move it!Dr. Blofeld 15:30, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
Many apologies I didn't mean for it to sound like piling on. The idea was worth thinking about. Cheers. MarnetteD | Talk 15:42, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Image up for review[edit]

I don't believe the copyrighted calendar cover is an appropriate lead image based on current non-free image use rules (I'm surprised it's still here 5 years after being uploaded). I have listed it on the Non-Free Review board to see what others think: Wikipedia:Non-free content review#File:TheAvengers60s.jpg . Most TV show articles seem to use the title card for the lead image.68.146.70.124 (talk) 18:05, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Missing info[edit]

Diana Rigg filmed two short films as Emma Peel for the European 8mm market,one of which is titled "The Golden Key" (it's on Youtube). The should be discussed under the "Film" section of the spin-offs, I think. Even if the film was unauthorized, it was still Diana Rigg playing Emma Peel. 68.146.52.234 (talk) 15:01, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

The two films were "The Diadem" and "The Mini Killers", though whether they should be included in the article is unknown.86.5.134.132 (talk) 22:51, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Steed as Keel’s “assistant”?[edit]

I’m no expert, but surely the second sentence of the introductory passage is just plain wrong…? It says: The Avengers initially focused on Dr. David Keel (Ian Hendry)[1] and his assistant John Steed (Patrick Macnee). Steed was never Keel’s assistant - Keel was a doctor in practice who became involved in Steed’s work, and to whom Steed returned for help from time to time as needed (effectively every episode). It was an ad hoc arrangement. Hendry may have been the star of the show, but in terms of the “partnership” portrayed in the series, Steed was the leader of events. Jock123 (talk) 20:14, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

I have now addressed this misrepresentation. Rest easy! 2601:545:8202:4EA5:0:0:0:1A08 (talk) 01:27, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

Edit suggestion: Removal of 'Spy-Fy' from the description of The Avengers/Re-working description[edit]

The opening line of this articles states that The Avengers 'is a spy-fi British television series'. I propose that the term spy-fi should be removed because, although many episodes of this show are spy-fi, many of them are not, particularly those of the first series. This use of spy-fi to describe the whole series gives the inaccurate impression that the show was spy-fi from the start. Also, perhaps the description could be re-worked so that information about the series occurs before the list of lead actors. And I think the Avengers was created in 1960 not 1961. I would do this myself but I'm new to editing and don't want to tread on anyone's toes.Aswh (talk) 16:29, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

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