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Off-topic chat[edit]

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What the world is this trashy episode list? Someone changed the episode list to say magic tree house titles instead of the veggietales episodes. I keep changeing it to make it correct, but then it just gets changed back to magic tree house. I really think that as a christian, it is offensive to take an article on a christian tv show and change it drastically for laughs. So, whatever idiots are changeing this article are no friends of mine. You don't mess with the wizard of video games. That's right. I don't give my real name. But for those who want me to have a name, call me by my video game name, Wizard. Nobody messes with the Wizard. Whoever changed this article should be thrown in jail. If it was up to me, I would throw the idiot in jail. Take that, nonchristian sucker! — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:40, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Relax. If you are going to react to every moron who puts nonsense on Wiki, you won't last long... Ckruschke (talk) 16:45, 23 January 2012 (UTC)Ckruschke
@Ckruschke : Last long what? Does that mean that the section poster will remain online or something? I'm confused by your reply. (talk) 02:34, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
Meaning: If you are going to over react to every anonymous editor who inserts nonsense into one of the pages, you'll get so frustrated that you'll eventually decide to give up Wiki. I revert 5-6 stupid insertion a day - and I many of the idiotic stuff is reverted by other editors before I even look at my watch list. You can't take people's stupidity personally... Ckruschke (talk) 16:40, 28 January 2012 (UTC)Ckruschke
You know what? I am the Wizard. And I will never give up on this wiki. So you don't be saying I won't. I never give up on things. And for your imformation, I have autism. So, if you think I'm not reading what — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 16:23, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
Buddy... I was simply trying to be helpful by suggesting that you relax and go with the flow rather than get upset by some random idiot who thinks it's fun to deface this Wiki page. I'm not saying, suggesting, or implying ANYTHING about you. Really. Take care - Ckruschke (talk) 15:56, 30 January 2012 (UTC)Ckruschke
Dude. I just don't like you guys saying that I, The Wizard, will give up on this wiki. I go around wikipedia making things more accurate. And it really ticks me off when somebody just keeps changing it back. Espeshily if the article is christian related. Thanks anyway though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 21:17, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
If you say so. Ckruschke (talk) 17:09, 31 January 2012 (UTC)Ckruschke

Hey guys. I, The Wizard, have stumbled upon another article that really bugs me. It turns out that, chitty chitty bang bang is both a book and a movie. The movie is based on the book. However, the movie has the main article for chitty chitty bang bang, while the novel's article is called chitty chitty bang bang (novel). I looked on the talk page to see why this was so, and discovered that it is because the movie is way more famous than the book. However, they didn't seem to want to do do this with the wizard of oz article, which bugs me. I don't know how to change the chitty article, so can you do it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 23:31, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

I could try, but I also don't know how. (talk) 01:22, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

This article talk page is for discussing improvements to the article, not for... whatever that was. - SummerPhDv2.0 18:29, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

One article question....[edit]

Does anyone have any of the reasons why this link is dead? I replaced it in two references with the same link archived in the WayBack Machine Archive under the Fox News website. Have a look at the article's history page and you'll see what I mean. (talk) 01:37, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

FoxNews probably moved the article or deleted it. Try searching for it on the FoxNews site. Ckruschke (talk) 22:51, 15 March 2012 (UTC)Ckruschke
Why did they delete it? (talk) 20:18, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
Actually it looks like the article is completely gone as a search on FoxNews shows the article, but then when you click on it you get the same error. Lets leave the link in place for now, since FoxNews might just have it's archive down, and then we can come back in the future and edit or delete it in the future. In the meantime, I found one outlet that had the same article([1]) and I've put it on the page alongside the FoxNews ref. Ckruschke (talk) 13:46, 21 March 2012 (UTC)Ckruschke


new comment here (edit request)[edit]

what up dudes somebody has locked this page so I cannot make an extremely urgent edit. Somebody doesn't know the difference between it's and its. Its a shame really. Case in point: "it's children's network" - this should be "its". We don't want people to think the writers of the VeggieTales wikipedia article are uneducated now, do we?2001:630:301:5242:E13E:36A1:800B:E9A7 (talk) 16:27, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

 Done Roberticus talk 17:18, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Cast list renovations[edit]

I think we need to figure out how, globally, we wish to address the Cast section for VeggieTales content. Many articles, like Lyle the Kindly Viking, The Star of Christmas, and Robin Good and His Not-So-Merry Men contain these really bizarre in-universe cast sections with content like:

  • Larry the Cucumber as Larry the Clown and Silk Hat Larry
  • Bob the Tomato as Himself
  • Archibald Asparagus as Himself

Then you get these really weird characters who have "names" that are descriptions:

  • England Man with Light Brown Top Hat and Brown Coat as Himself
  • Ma Carrot with Blue Hat and Blue Clothing as Herself
  • England Man with Navy Top Hat and Navy Coat as Himself
  • Unnamed England Girl as Herself
  • London Carrot with White Pants and White Hat as Himself

To clarify what's happening here, there are a few main VeggieTales characters, I surmise, and they act out Bible-centric stories as different characters. So the character of Larry the Cucumber might act out a story as Larry the Clown, or whatever. Anyhow, it seems like a no-brainer that we should stop presenting the cast from in-universe and take a clue from A Snoodle's Tale and present the content like this instead:

The Strange Case of Dr. Jiggle and Mr. Sly

I checked the closing credits for Lyle the Kindly Viking. They do present credits in a style like this:

  • Phil Vischer
    • Omelet (Jimmy)
    • Ophelia (Mr. Lunt)

This corresponds with the proposed improved format above. In this case, Phil Vischer voices the character of Jimmy, who is acting out a story as another character, Omelet.

Lastly, in looking in the credits for Kindly Viking, I don't see any of the "England Man with Light Brown Top Hat" stuff. I'm guessing these are unnamed characters who populate the backgrounds, who probably aren't voiced, whose names are probably entirely manufactured by fans, (note that England Man seems to exist almost entirely at Wikia) and who are almost certainly not noteworthy. One tangential issue is that these articles are heavily vandalized, and if we change the cast lists, they will almost certainly be changed back to the problematic versions. So I'd like to establish clear consensus now to help combat that. Appreciate any input, thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 19:46, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

The example cast list looks good to me. I'm fairly sick of making edits clarifying that "Fred the Acorn Squash" is not a real person.
One of the frequent battlegrounds on these articles is attempts to change cast lists as credited to various other versions. If the credits read "J. Smith", we list it as "J. Smith", even if someone believes that their full name is "Jebadiah Smith" or if they have since changed their name through marriage or otherwise.
We also seem to get a lot of changes to dates without a source or explanation. I intend to revert those on sight and request blocks and page protection as needed.
We get lots of changes to who released the VHS and/or DVD and/or reissues. Browsing through several film articles on my watchlist, I don't see much in the way of "Jefferson Video released it on VHS on July 4, 1776. King's video released the DVD on June 21, 1788. Madison Productions released the remastered VHS on December 5, 1791. Congress Video included it in a special 11 DVD set on February 7, 1795..." This is likely to be especially problematic here because we don't really have sources, other than and such.
We seem to get a lot of obsessive detail on FBI warning screens, title screens, changes to boxes, colors of videocassette cases, etc. Unless there are independent reliable sources discussing these details, editors with these "special interests" will need to find other outlets.
As an umbrella statement, I want sources for pretty much everything. - SummerPhD (talk) 01:09, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 December 2015[edit]

The first sentence should mention that it is a tv show as well as a series of animated films. (talk) 20:48, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

The third para in the lead talks about the two television series. Since the television shows sprang off the videos and the videos continue, this is the proper location. Ckruschke (talk) 19:50, 30 December 2015 (UTC)Ckruschke
Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: per Ckruschke's explanation. Please establish a consensus for this change before using {{edit semi-protected}}. Mz7 (talk) 05:28, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Proposed merge[edit]

I'm proposing that VeggieTales in the House and VeggieTales in the City be merged here. They don't have sufficient RS to justify separate articles and having extensive plot synopses is just ridiculous for a kids' show. Famous dog (c) 12:36, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Support: As a contributor to the above articles, I have found out that the series have very small or non-existent notability in reliable sources.--Carniolus (talk) 17:30, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
Strong Oppose: I agree about the sourcing, but these two programs should not be merged onto this page - it is the parent for all VeggieTales media. If you want to merge the two pages with eachother, that's one thing, but not onto the parent site. That's like moving Mulan onto the The Walt Disney Company page - which everyone would agree is not correct. Alternately, these two pages should be improved to include proper sourcing. Ckruschke (talk) 17:59, 30 March 2017 (UTC)Ckruschke
Comment That's a really terrible argument. It's not remotely like what you suggest, which would be equivalent to merging the various VeggieTales articles into that for the parent company, Big Idea Entertainment (although frankly, there's a good case for doing that too). Mulan is a single film produced by Disney and notable in itself. Disney is an enormous corporation that produces all sorts of media and products, and therefore notable. VeggieTales is a not-particularly-notable cartoon and there are several not-particularly-notable versions of it. I think there is more than a case for merging these five (or more?) articles into one, but apparently nobody gives two hoots - possibly because this cartoon (as previously mentioned) isn't that notable. Famousdog (woof)(grrr) 11:53, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
Support: merge it into VeggieTales. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 19:51, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
Oppose: It needs to be the same. It doesn't have to be bad, It is a right article. --2601:205:C101:1110:FD5C:3B2C:C2EB:F3EE (talk) 03:11, 13 May 2018 (UTC) 2601:0205:c101:1110:fd5c:3b2c:c2eb:f3ee - Comcast Cable in Tracy, California (talkcontribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Oppose Each of the three articles is large enough on it's own... and as time goes on, each article will probably get larger and be expanded. TantraYum (talk) 05:58, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
Oppose I do not think so --2601:205:C101:1110:E14E:3627:3FC7:9BE4 (talk) 02:57, 20 May 2018 (UTC) 2601:0205:c101:1110:e14e:3627:3fc7:9be4 - Comcast Cable in Tracy, California (talkcontribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • Oppose It'd be like merging the subsequent Transformers iterations into The Transformers. Same for TMNT or MLP, or heck, even apter considering platform: not giving Voltron Legendary Defender or All Hail King Julien their own articles and forcing everything onto the parent series' page--Harmony944 (talk, Twitter) 18:27, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose: a television series with 52 or more episodes running on a major international network (Netflix) is, in my view, notable, having reached the criteria outlined at WP:TVSERIES. That it's aimed at children rather than adults doesn't detract from its notability even though it will certainly have less appeal to adult readers of the page. Klbrain (talk) 20:48, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 March 2017[edit]

[sic] should be removed from the quote "if NBC is so concerned about that four-letter-word God [sic]". L. Brent Bozell is using four-letter word to mean that God is a dirty word, not that it has four letters. [sic] does not appear in the Fox News story either; it's either a mistake or it violates WP:NPOV. (talk) 17:50, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

It doesn't violate WP:NPOV because it isn't an expressed opinion - it's a clarification of a seeming error - which is not "NPOV".
That being said, my assumption was always that "sic" was in the quote. If it isn't, it shouldn't be there so I deleted it. I remember vaguely an IP editor trying to change the quote to "three-letter word". Maybe someone inserted "sic" in order to get that guy to stop. Who knows...
Ckruschke (talk) 13:15, 27 March 2017 (UTC)Ckruschke
Sic is used to emphasise that something that may be a mistake (or sounds like a mistake) was actually said/written as quoted. It's use here is entirely appropriate. I'm reverting this edit. Famousdog (c) 12:01, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
Better to rewrite the sentence to avoid using this odd idiom at all. I've gone ahead and done this. --McGeddon (talk) 12:10, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
It's not odd, and it's not an idiom either. However, I agree with your solution. Somebody obviously has their knickers in a twist over it, so best to avoid it. Famousdog (c) 12:48, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
Calling swearwords "four-letter words" is idiomatic. Using the term to refer to a word with three letters is potentially confusing to those unfamiliar with the idiom. --McGeddon (talk) 12:56, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
Revising the section to get rid of the offending quote is a better solution than what I did. Ckruschke (talk) 18:01, 30 March 2017 (UTC)Ckruschke

Target audience[edit]

Every once and a while, we get an editor who decides that a show that is clearly intended for young children is really for teens or teens and adults or everybody... basically that the show must be for people like them because they watch it.

They start removing categories, adding material from reddit or whatever and insisting that Arthur, Sid the Science Kid, Little Bill, VeggieTales, 3-2-1 Penguins!, etc. are really shows that adults pop on at 10 PM and watch because they want to brush up on early literacy concepts, dealing with basic emotions and simplified morality.

I find the sources that say unequivocally that the show is aimed at pre-schoolers, kids 4 to 8 or whatever. I add it to the article. The editor removes it and adds mealy-mouthed, unsourced/poorly sourced claims to the contrary. I pull more sources and flesh it out with the target audience, and the producers research into early childhood pedagogy. This continues until the other editor gets themselves blocked while material builds up in the article until we have an extensive section on every aspect of the show being designed to pull in the little kids (with small nods to the bored adults stuck watching it with the kids). Alternately, I add the target audience with reliable sources and the other editor accepts that the article will be based on verifiability and reliable sources.

We're heading down that road here. This show, a cartoon with singing vegetables teaching dumbed down morality, has producers offering preschool lesson plans based on the show. It's rated TV-Y. When it aired, it was part of preschool blocks when older kids are in school and many adults are working.

You can watch whatever you want (kids: get your parents' permission first!). You can enjoy things that aren't aimed at you. Maybe you're 12 and love "Murder She Wrote". Maybe you snack on communion wafers dipped in baby food. Whatever. Knock yourself out. If everyone is the same as everyone else, the world would be boring as hell. That said, a Wikipedia article about a kids' show should say it is intended for kids. - SummerPhDv2.0 18:19, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

So? The show aired on NBC's block Qubo (which airs on Saturdays, when everyone's available at home) from 2006 to 2009, and was rated TV-Y7. It's my opinion. Don't judge me. I'm 13 years old. Jteka9870 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:29, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
I'm not judging you. I'm not talking about you at all. I'm saying the show was made for preschoolers, as the sources show. Insisting that it is "for" everyone is simply saying anyone can watch it, which is true of everything and not at all encyclopedic. Preschool shows are created with preschoolers in mind. That's not a judgement, that's a fact. - SummerPhDv2.0 06:44, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
Please note that sell-published sources, such as personal web pages, are not reliable sources and cannot be used as sources. Please see WP:SPS.
A claim that a preschool show became popular with "kids of all ages" (a marketing term), "preteens, teens, adults, seniors, etc." is an exceptional claim. There are very few things that are popular with "everyone": air, water, food, shelter, that kind of thing. Claiming that a television show, designed to teach basic morality to very young children, became popular with everyone is simply absurd and would require an exceptional source.
When reliable sources say a show is for preschool kids, we do not water that down to the broader "children", much as we would not change a television show to a "broadcast media" show. - SummerPhDv2.0 16:36, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

Cancelled is lies[edit]

VeggieTales can't be cancelled. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 17:57, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Can't is different from isn't. The "ending" section should be reviewed and its sources analyzed. If there's a problem with them, feel free to discuss that. Otherwise, sources that contradict those should be provided to stated what is written there is incorrect (see WP:V, WP:BALANCE and other policies and guidelines). Changing the article to suit your needs is not appropriate and doing so multiple times is called edit warring and can result in a block to editing for you. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:10, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Where did you hear that VeggieTales was cancelled? (talk) 00:46, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Have you read the article recently? It's sourced in the article. Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:02, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

New episode in 2018[edit]

But VeggieTales is going to be a new episode in Fall 2018. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:12, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

A reliable source must be provided to support the claim. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:20, 30 May 2018 (UTC)