Template talk:Notability/Archive 5

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Archive 4 Archive 5 Archive 6

Edit request on 23 December 2011

Now that Wikipedia:Notability (astronomical objects) has been adopted, I would like to request adding an optional 'Astro' argument to the {{notability}} template. Thank you. Regards, RJH (talk) 00:24, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Done Anomie 17:18, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
Thank you! Regards, RJH (talk) 18:12, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Making it more convenient to find sources

I really like the {{find}} template they use over at the AfD discussions. How about adding it to the {{Notability}} template? It would make it easier to actually look for those reliable, secondary sources.

I was playing around in my sandbox and added this line to the bottom-ish part of the source text:

<small>{{Find sources|{{PAGENAME}}}}</small>

It makes the template look like this:

What do you think? Braincricket (talk) 11:25, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I think it would be helpful and appropriate. Regards, RJH (talk) 16:46, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

I'd like to request that the {{find}} template be incorporated, per the proposal above. I think this change would help transform the template from a "badge of shame" into a resource for establishing notability. Regards. Braincricket (talk) 21:07, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

I think that's a good idea. WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:19, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
Done. Killiondude (talk) 05:39, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Pointing out that there was an RfC two years ago that spoke against adding links to search engines in the {{unreferenced}}/{{refimprove}} templates: Template talk:Refimprove#RFC: Should a link to a commercial search engine be included in the template Refimprove. Amalthea 14:14, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Good point. Ideally, it might be better to use a link to a Wikipedia lookup tool that employs the passed article name to suggest sources. There is a Help:Reliable sources wizard, but it is still under construction. We've also got the {{Search}} template that includes independent commercial sources. Regards, RJH (talk) 18:36, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
Yes, thanks for bringing that to my attention—I was unaware than an RfC took place regarding a virtually identical proposal. My original rationale was that since it's only a short step from a {{Notability}} tag to a PROD or AfD nomination, and since {{find}} is used at AfD discussions, why not save a step and include it on the template? (I have used {{find}} on a couple occasions to find "low-hanging fruit" and save an article from outright deletion at AfD.) In retrospect, maybe my reasoning/proposal was a bit naive. Some good points were brought up at the RfC, namely a) templates in the article are not the same as templates in the talk page, or in the Wikipedia namespace, and b) Wikipedia should not publicly endorse one commercial search engine over others. It seems consensus is against embedding {{find}}, as I proposed.
There must be a way to address some of the issues brought up at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2011_June_18#Template:Notability without violating the spirit of the RfC consensus. Maybe that's a discussion for another day. Cheers. Braincricket (talk) 23:23, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

I would like to request that the change made above be reverted. Template:Find sources states (in bold print) that it "should not be used in articles themselves." I probably should have done my homework before making my previous request. Oops. Braincricket (talk) 05:36, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

YesY Done. Amalthea 10:03, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Requesting notability guidelines for Skateboarders

They don't have notability guidelines for skateboarders in sports and there are so many pages (BLP's) of skateboarders who've done absolutely nothing but they can have a Wikipedia page whereas many successful actors (if they don't have 3 significant roles in 3 significant films) get deleted. StewartNetAddict (talk) 19:32, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

You might want to take a look at WP:NSPORTS and see if it makes sense to add a set of guidelines there for skateboarders. Regards, RJH (talk) 15:54, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Questions about notability categories

What is the relationship between the topic subcategories of Category:Articles with topics of unclear notability and {{Notability}}? For example:

Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 05:06, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Add journal guideline

Could someone add the following piece of code

| academic journals
| academic journal
| journals
| journal             = [[Wikipedia:Notability (academic journals)|notability guideline for academic journals]]

to the template? Thanks. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 03:42, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure about describing it as a guideline when Wikipedia:Notability (academic journals) isn't a guideline. Perhaps it might be better to use some alternative phrasing? I don't know what to suggest though. Tra (Talk) 21:28, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
Right, it's still classified as an essay, despite years of service as a guideline. Maybe it's just time to re-submit it for guideline status (ah the wonders of bureaucracy). Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 21:39, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Deletion of tag in article at AfD

Is it permissible to delete the tag, if the article is the subject of an ongoing AfD? Or if the AfD is that same month as the date of the tag (I recognize, that where the tag was applied earlier, it may be helpful for !voters to see how long the article has been tagged, without being improved beyond its present state). I would think that if the tag is the same month as the AfD, deletion of the tag should be acceptable as it adds nothing, but am interested in hearing any contrary views.--Epeefleche (talk) 07:46, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Removal of the tag while the very issue that it discusses is still active is actively counterproductive. I'd love to hear the rationale behind this proposal. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 15:38, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
Right. There are multiple reasons, not just WP:N concerns, to take something to AfD, and whether or not AfD collectively decides that the article has such severe notability establishment-and-documentation problems that it must be deleted immediately as essentially irreparable, is an entirely separately question from whether it has any notability-related problems at all. The tag and the AfD action are not redundant, just inter-relating. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ɖ∘¿¤þ   Contrib. 11:03, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 3 April 2012

Please insert the following lines in the ambox:

lists = [[Wikipedia:Notability#Stand-alone lists|notability guideline for stand-alone lists]]

RockMagnetist (talk) 15:31, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

 Done ‑Scottywong| chatter _ 02:15, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
Thank you! RockMagnetist (talk) 04:17, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Parameter cleanup

While the existing parameters all need to continue to be supported (unless someone cleans up via AWB or a bot), we don't need the /doc to independently mention every variant (plurals? really?) much less advise upper case, which virtually no one on WP ever uses for parameter names. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ɖ∘¿¤þ   Contrib. 10:47, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Missing type

We're missing a major type of notability problem, namely fan-gushing (or even CoI-motivated) independent articles on non-notable episodes, issues, and other sub-components of a series or franchise or other larger work or entity (TV show episodes, comic book issues, podcast episodes, songs on albums, photos in an exhibit, paintings by an artist, random executives at a company, subsidiaries, machine parts, etc.) I'm sure there must be an applicable guideline on this somewhere, but I'm so tired of trying to memorize guidelines I'm not sure what it might be. Someone who spends a lot more time cleaning up after fanboys and PR flacks around here than I do (my janitorial time is more spent sweeping up after excessively geeky specialists who forget that this is a generalist encyclopedia, not an extension of their academic journal, and who are often the exact same offenders, editing in a different topic) can probably weigh in usefully here. I'm not sure what parameter I'd create for this; |subtopic= might do it, and tie in with the merge sentiment expressed by {{R from subtopic}}. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ɖ∘¿¤þ   Contrib. 10:54, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Notability for company

It's very easy to use "company" instead of "companies" in this template, such as Amazonica. Could "company" be added as another parameter that would show the notability guideline for companies and organizations? Or is there an easy way to see which templates have an invalid parameter so we could fix the articles? Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 03:55, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

"Section" parameter

Am I correct that there is no parameter that applies the "Notability" tag to a single section rather than an entire page? It seems to me that pop culture subjects are especially prone to the addition of spurious sections. It would be helpful if those sections could be identified by tag. Dementia13 (talk) 19:09, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Notability is wikijargon for "qualifies for its own, separate, stand-alone article". Since a section isn't a separate, stand-alone article, it's not really sensible to complain that the non-whole-page doesn't deserve to be its own whole page.
You might be looking for something like {{Trivia}} or {{Off-topic}}. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:31, 11 September 2012 (UTC)



Although the template documentation mentions a |Journals= parameter, I don't see that parameter in the template code. Should this be removed from the documentation or added to the template code? Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 01:53, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Since I didn't see any response, I removed the |Journals= parameter from the documentation. GoingBatty (talk) 00:42, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Grammatically incorrect

The first sentence under Usage is grammatically incorrect, containing a gratuitous indefinite article. The relevant phrase should read, "...top of any page whose article subject is..." Cottonshirtτ 17:58, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Fixed the typo on Template:Notability/doc as you requested. Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 18:24, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Use of this template on BLPs for several years

I consider the use of this template on articles about living people possibly uncomfortable for the subject. Nevertheless, it is sometimes unavoidable and good. What I wonder though if it would be possible to try to reduce the time these templates are displayed on such articles, either by providing a way to tag the respective talk page instead, or to set up a policy of not letting those templates linger for too long on the articles.

I am not talking about having it there for a few weeks or months. But in some extreme cases we have persons being notability-templated since December 2007, i.e. for more than five years -- almost half of the age of Wikipedia. I wonder if we could avoid it. And I wonder if anyone thinks like me that we even should avoid it.

Maybe I am missing related discussions, I checked the archive of this talk but didn't find anything.

My concrete suggestions would be either to:

  • in cases of BLPs, make an alternative template that can be used on the talk page in cases where the notability template has been on the article for a long time (6 months?)
  • allow the notability template to be simply removed after some time has passed and no action has been initiated to change or discuss the situation for a long time (6 months?)

Opinions? --denny vrandečić (talk) 08:24, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Merge from {{chemical-importance}}

It doesn't appear that {{chemical-importance}} is covered by this template. Should be a relatively easy merge. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 11:18, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

I have put it up for deletion. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 21:31, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Up for discussion

... at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2013_February_26#Template:Notability. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 22:08, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Done --Redrose64 (talk) 22:37, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Please remove TFD header.

Since the TFD was closed as keep, someone needs to remove the header linking to the TFD. Chutznik (talk) 00:48, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

There is some questioning of the closing at User talk:Codename Lisa. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 01:07, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
Yes I think the close was rather premature despite the overwhelming support to keep the template as there was a still a discussion/proposal active. JayJayWhat did I do? 01:10, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
Hi. Like I said in my talk page, a NAC closure is wide open to oversight; however, a WP:SNOW-based decision always consists of terminating an active discussion whose course is highly unlikely to change. In other words, you have your overwhelming "Support all"s. Well, enjoy! Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 01:27, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
  • While it may be true that a WP:SNOW close ends a discussion, an WP:NAC should only be used in non-controversial circumstances to do so. I'm not sure how anyone would interpret cutting an ongoing discussion off after 4 opinions to be "non-controversial" (the second part of the discussion). Besides which, the actual primary discussion included a handful of delete and strong delete opinions so it was by no means a definitive WP:SNOW close anyway. So if an admin comes here to make this protected edit, could they please instead reverse the closure of Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2013 February 26#Template:Notability and allow the discussion to run its course. The closer's responses asking if editors "want medals" for querying the close speak volumes. If nothing else, there's clearly no consensus for this edit to a protected template, so that's a problem right there. Stalwart111 02:58, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
Not done: Instead, I've reverted the closure, per comments above timed after 01:00 UTC and User talk:Codename Lisa#Closing discussion of Template:Notability. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:22, 1 March 2013 (UTC)