User talk:Atsme/Archive 44

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Wikilove

Wbm1058 has given you a beer and bourbon! Beers and bourbons promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a beer and bourbon, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. ^†

I could use a drink myself, and I thought "You know who I'd like to share a drink with? You. No, not me, you. No! Not me! Atsme! No, I'm not Atsme, I'm MjolnirPants! No-Well, yes, I do want MjolnirPants to have a beer and a bourbon, but I can't very well share one with myself, can I? Oh for crying out loud... Look, I want a boilermaker, all right? Good. And I don't want to drink alone, got it? Okay, then I'd like to share a couple drinks with Atsme, because I don't come around here and shoot the shit with her much. No, she can have her own. No, I'm not afraid of cooties, what are you, 12? Yeesh..." So yeah. A Whiskey for you. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 20:35, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

I just noticed that this is displaying me as the giver here, but it was actually MPants (credit where credit is due). I looked at the template documentation, and I haven't got a clue how this happened, or how to correct it. Anyway, everyone should rest assured that I do not need to be exorcised from MPants' body. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:25, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

I just figured it out. It shows whoever is the last editor to edit this talk section. Test it out! You can steal the credit too! --Tryptofish (talk) 20:44, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

See! See! [1]. What a nice bot! --Tryptofish (talk) 19:23, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

This is crazy! Wbm1058 - you're a programmer, right? Can you explain why the name of the last editor shows-up in the Wikilove message? Is it some kind of magic that was performed by MPants? Atsme 💬 📧 20:19, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Look at Template:WikiLove documentation. It says "This template should always be substituted (i.e., use {{subst:WikiLove}})." Voila. Now I am the permanent giver of WikiLove to Atsme. ♥♥♥♥♥♥ wbm1058 (talk) 20:47, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Testing. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:33, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Yup. Always ask for MPants – there is no substitute! --Tryptofish (talk) 21:35, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Introducing the .... "I can't believe it's an MPants-at-work-MPants!". Martinevans123 (talk) 21:48, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

I can't believe it, either! Oh, and thank you very much Mr. B!!

I can't believe it's not butter! I can't believe I ate the whole thing! Don't stop believing! --Tryptofish (talk) 21:05, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Gawd I love that song!! Atsme 💬 📧 21:35, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

And a whole lotta love! --Tryptofish (talk) 21:07, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

A rock classic. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:23, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

What happened, Martin? Were Alvin and the Chipmunks unavailable? --Tryptofish (talk) 21:33, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

OMG!! 🤣🙉 Atsme 💬 📧 21:35, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

It coulda been worse: [2]. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:37, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

That's headbanger stuff - ugh!!! You're right - it could have been worse. I'll keep the kazoos. Atsme 💬 📧 21:45, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

That was, of course, SpongeBob MPants. But I can sing pretty too: [3]. I used to do a duet with Atsme. We called ourselves Bass 'N Gal. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:56, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Sounds a little fishy to me.

Atsme 💬 📧 22:20, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

You should also invite John Lee Hooker (the original DYKer). --Tryptofish (talk) 20:46, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Are you suggesting Hookers and booze? ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 22:18, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Now don't be a big head, Trypto. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:25, 20 July 2021 (UTC) "Beware, ends rather abruptly."

Well, it sure sounds to me like the two of you could use some sort of medication. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:01, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

You could have some of mine. It's pretty good stuff. --ARose Wolf 19:03, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

🍻 Cheers!! And thanks for such an entertaining post - it actually helped lift my spirits (now that I know what it really means; i.e., raise a glass.) I needed a little boost to get me out of this depression. Atsme 💬 📧 22:27, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Well, I cited a blues song above, but I couldn't help but notice what you said at the end of that. Seriously, I'm a long-time person-living-with-depression, so I'm very sensitive to others who might be experiencing it. Believe me, it's treatable. I can't help you with medication, nor talk therapy, but if you want, I can talk. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:05, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Well said, Tryptofish. I'm sure we all feel the same. You are highly respected and much cherished editor, Atsme! Martinevans123 (talk) 19:14, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

I realize we're not supposed to get attached or socialize but quite frankly, it's impossible not to...unless you're an algorithm. We express ourselves in different ways, but that's one of the things I appreciate about my WikiFriends - we can be contrastingly different and still care about one another - and as crazy or bizarre as some of our responses might seem at any given moment, there's an unspoken affinity we have for one another. I didn't intend to get mushy, but I must admit that I actually felt that affinity quite deeply when we lost DrChrissy and Corinne. The combination of individuality, kindness and humor may very well have been the catalyst for the connection but...there is definitely something else that connects us. I believe it is intrinsically motivated...humanity, perhaps...I can't explain it, but I know it's there. Martin, thank you for your kind words - you already know how much I appreciate you. Tryp, your email is not activated, and I'm not inclined to talk about it on my UTP for the whole world to see but I do appreciate your offer.

Atsme 💬 📧 20:22, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

To ask a human not to get attached is to not understand humanity. We can limit it but the very act of collaboration begets a better encyclopedia and means we will undoubtedly become attached in some way or another. I always see it as strings of a guitar. It takes both hands to properly play and they work in collaboration to produce tones and musical notes which can be put together to produce songs. Songs can heal. Songs can enlighten. Songs can give us strength during dark times and guide us home when we are lost. Much love from my heart to all of yours on the strings of life. --ARose Wolf 13:52, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

What an incredibly beautiful analogy and sentiment. Thank you, Rose! And for you, I wish the perfect blend of silk and steel strings on your guitar of life, or nylon if you prefer the classics. Atsme 💬 📧 16:33, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

I prefer hexcore roundwound nickel steel, myself. Better for slide, chicken picking and shredding. Extra cool if you get the glow in the dark kind. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 18:41, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Well ok, but be sure to practice safe hex. Atsme 💬 📧 19:08, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Or else, you might start to glow in the dark. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:20, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Well... Now I know why I haven't needed a nightlight since the time I met that redhead at a Pantera concert in '97. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 19:26, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Awww...Nothing says you light up my life like hex at a Pantera concert. --ARose Wolf 19:31, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

I won't even ask about chicken plucking. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:37, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

"I'm not pheasant plucker, I'm a pheasant plucker's son". Martinevans123 (talk) 20:00, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

I stayed away from that one too, Trypto. I'm afraid that may be one of those you want back in the bag but can't get it there once it's out. Better to leave it alone like sleeping dogs. --ARose Wolf 19:51, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Woops! Everyone around here is such nit-pluckers, I mean, nit-pickers. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:09, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

I better not ask about chicken shredding, either. And I have a feeling that pulled pork might also be misconstrued. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:12, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Well, in that case don't ask about drinking tea and eating cookies. --ARose Wolf 20:18, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

No indeed! And especially not a tea bag! --Tryptofish (talk) 20:21, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

I did warn about the bag above and about not letting anything out of it. Stay away from soft pretzels too. It's a salty subject. ;) --ARose Wolf 20:30, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

So many perils! It looks like MPants has put a hex on us all! (And don't even get me started on Martin taking a pea!) --Tryptofish (talk) 20:48, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Is this like Cinderella's glass slipper?--ARose Wolf 21:04, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Perhaps. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:37, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Nothing at all. Even though I knew it would be all over tonight because I was just her latest lover it was metal magic, on a new level when we had our five minutes alone. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 19:52, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Metal? Good heavens, Bloomer Britches! Have you not heard of latex? Atsme 💬 📧 22:12, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Hey, no kink shaming. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 22:18, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

How about skink shaming? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:34, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Or heavy latex? --Tryptofish (talk) 22:52, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Atsme 💬 📧 23:46, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Could be worse. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:31, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes...one could live out the rest of their days with Lay Down Sally stuck in their head.

Atsme 💬 📧 22:55, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

It could be so much worse. I mean, we could be looking at the return of Kirk season 2 next year.

ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 13:34, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Martinevans123 (talk) 15:52, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Bloomer Britches...THAT is a declaration of intergalactic war!! Get up, Sally! No time to rest here in his arms. We still have the moon and stars above, with Cpt Kirk and all his charms! Atsme 💬 📧 16:26, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

I think you'll find Sally's already spoken for. -- Gracie Feild Warbler 123 (talk) 16:50, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Did anyone notice how my WikiFriend MPants transforms into MPanties when it comes to comparing the charm of Kirk to Pickhard? Granted, he's got me beat re: the advance in special effects for P vs that of K - it would be like comparing the early versions of Dr. Who to Star Wars - there is no comparison. So where does that leave us? Quite simply, it leaves us with Kirk as the winner for being the most charming and handsome because we all know that money and material things, like who has the coolest spaceship, really doesn't matter. Atsme 💬 📧 14:03, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Hey now. Don't be jealous just because my timeline has holodecks and touchscreens. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 14:55, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

All right now, who forgot to close their <small></small> tags? ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 21:05, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Someone needs the trout? --ARose Wolf 21:11, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

You can't trout me. I'm already a fish. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:30, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Maybe you're troutproof, but I can always sicc the cat on you... ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 21:32, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

That would be mean. No need to make a cat sick. (Sick transit, Gloria?) --Tryptofish (talk) 21:34, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

"Aye, Jim lad, it's time you had a taste of the cat!!". Martinevans123 (talk) 21:39, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Aye, aye, Clarence Thomas. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:43, 22 July 2021 (UTC) And this time, I had to close Martin's "small", so there!

And let's put a hat on that. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:54, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Instructions unclear. Am currently stuck in a... compromising situation. Send help. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 22:05, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Hopefully, you can slide out of it. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:08, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

OMG!! Just read the Clarence Thomas line - somewhat subliminal, but what a mouthful!

Atsme 💬 📧 12:02, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

If it gets in your mouth (particularly by way of a Coke can), by all means spit it out! --Tryptofish (talk) 21:56, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Spit it out? Well...it depends on one's "encyclopedic" definition of Coke and blow... confirming that neither is related to anyone's job. Don't be too hasty to judge me!! I have a valid excuse for my comment - in a nutshell: it's Friday night, and it's Happy Hour! But wait...there's more - the terminology is academic in that one must be aware of the different English/American dialects or risk misinterpreting a quote that belongs in a BLP. <--- And that is why my comments may be longer than the comments of others, from time to time. Maybe we should simply can this discussion. Atsme 💬 📧 22:17, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Well, that took all the fizz out of the discussion, but I'll remember that it might actually be the New Coke. But I'll defer to you, and agree that it's time to get off your lawn. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:22, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

File:1941AlfredENeuman.jpg

Alfred E. Fishface

"I only edit Wikipedia to broaden my grin!" -- Doc Trippyfish 123

Egads - it's the morning after, and I've been watching too much Comedians In Cars Getting Coffee. I see now that my comment came across quite the opposite of what I intended. I probably should have used Siri or Alexa - they do a much better job at screwing up the things I say. And now you know why I use emojis. 😂 Atsme 💬 📧 15:08, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

And after reading my own comment, I realize that something that I meant to be lighthearted unintentionally came across as unhappy. Maybe emojis wouldn't be enough for me, more like semaphores or something. I was joking about the fizz etc, even though I realize now that it didn't sound that way. I had been thinking that the punning and so forth here had been going on for longer than it needed to, and that it was partially me who was prolonging it, so I actually did think it would be a good time to can it and get off your lawn. But I wasn't going away feeling hurt. So it sounds like you felt like your comment didn't come across the way you meant, and now my comment didn't either. Comedy of errors, isn't it? But now, we're all good, no worries. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:29, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Ah yes, communication at Wikipedia is always so easy, isn't it. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:30, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Can the Can? [4] Martinevans123 (talk) 15:13, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Or dance the Can-Can. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:29, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes we can. Atsme 💬 📧 20:00, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

In a manner of speaking... --Tryptofish (talk) 20:14, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Loham/Archive 1

Hello, Atsme,

I'm working through a list of orphaned talk subpages and came across this one which you created. It looks like a GA review. I'm not sure what you want to do with this content, whether it should be moved to another title or deleted. Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:44, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Looking this page over, your edits are the only ones listed in the page history but clearly there is a lot of content that you didn't add. It's very peculiar. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:50, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Liz - my guess is that it was a product of my early inexperience with One Click Archiver. See Talk:Loham and this link which may help explain it. That page visit stirred fond memories of Corinne. I sure do miss her. Atsme 💬 📧 03:56, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. I'm running into some crazy stuff. There is a lot of content that got put on subpages and then forgotten about, for years apparently. This page actually makes sense. But I'm finding contested deletion statements for articles that were deleted long ago, WikiProjects that were started by one editor and then abandoned a month later, redirects from bad page moves that are beyond implausible. If it wasn't for this 2018 list of 1,000+ pages, I'm sure that no one would have run into this content, ever. Thanks again. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:00, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

CE?

Hey, Atsme! I've been trying to work toward getting Marjorie Paxson to FA, and one comment I've gotten is that it could use a copyedit. I was wondering if you'd be willing/have time? No urgency, I'm just plugging along with it. —valereee (talk) 17:03, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Valereee - if there's no urgency, it may serve as a nice break for me in the evenings, and will help change my focus away from the gruelling pack & move ritual that has consumed my life since getting back to Texas. Better yet, CE doesn't require any manual labor. Atsme 💬 📧 20:24, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

How's that going? You were there for over 20 years, right? Yeah...especially when you've got tons of storage space, going through it all is hell. At least you aren't moving into a smaller space. We moved from a 1970s suburban house with huge rooms to a 110-yo urban one with smaller rooms, and none of our larger pieces worked. I had to get rid of my kitchen table, all my couches, and several chair-and-a-halfs and ottomans, which I hadn't realized were so huge until I put them into a space built for a typical 1910 armchair. My gigantic kitchen storage that could accommodate gear I used once every six or eight years had to be severely culled. My MBR closet is smaller, my coat closet is smaller, my powder room has storage for a few rolls of toilet paper. :) We love living in the city after 20 years in the 'burbs, but it was an adjustment. —valereee (talk) 22:16, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Ugh!! But it's good to know you adjusted. We are actually downsizing, and dealing with 2 homes, (my oldest daughter's home in addition to mine). Actually, there is 43 years of collecting involved, and lots of big furniture. My Texas room alone will furnish the new house. The new home is a fraction of the house I'm in now. Downsizing made sense since I'm spending more time on Bonaire, so I no longer need all this "stuff". My computer and access to the internet are most important to me these days. I do enjoy my time on WP, but there are times when I'm ready to throw in the towel. I deplore power-hungry, my-way-or-the-highway attitudes and we've had more than our share of that over the past 4 or 5 years. I digress, so back on point...did you sell your furniture on FB marketplace or another venue? I also did some of my work from home where I'm uninterrupted, and kept important stuff here, like my dive gear, underwater camera equipment, complete editing studio, photographic equipment, prize saddles/buckles/trophies on display, memorabilia, magazines, tapes of all the stuff I've ever produced/written, and lots of other "stuff". And, there's an attached "mother-in-law" apartment that is completely self-contained! Somebody call the fire department!! I need a rescue team.

Atsme 💬 📧 15:38, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Oh, I hadn't realized it was a housing downsize, thought it was just an acreage downsize! Yeah, that's rough, and after 43 years...oof! I donated my furniture to a local charitable consignment. They came out and picked it all up and I got a tax credit. Win-win. —valereee (talk) 18:13, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Stop considering it. I wont let your sweetness leave. Haha!

Those who seek only power will leave this world with none of it and even less to be remembered for. Kindness and Understanding are a force much greater. Those who seek power and those who seek only to leave the world around them better than they found it will ultimately both exit this life but the ones they affect will live on. When I am reflected on I would rather be thought of with fondness than loathing. --ARose Wolf 17:03, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

You are such a sweet soul, ARoseWolf - thank you for the kind words. I do enjoy helping out with the editing on WP, and I can't help but adore the wikifriends I've made here. I am determined to maintain a positive outlook, so I've decided to do a bit of copy editing when I can - it's actually a welcome break after a day of tedious packing, etc. I'm still checking my UTP from time to time...but it will be a while before I'm back to the level I once was relative to authoring articles, taking on a load of work at NPP/AfC, reviewing GAs/FAs, helping out at peer reviews, participating at RfCs/RfAs/AfDs or lending a helping hand to the various project teams I've joined. I do hope my colleagues will be kind enough to excuse my absence. I have also geared down at Commons, but I'm still helping when I can as a member of VRT. Hopefully 2022 will bring some relief and much needed change. Atsme 💬 📧 00:18, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

We all play our role in helping to improve and expand the encyclopedia. Sometimes it waxes and sometimes it wanes, much like the moon we go in cycles and that's okay. I appreciate every phase of you and my fellow editors here. I am just thankful that I have Wikipedia and formed these connections with some really awesome people. It is a hobby but it is also a community. Your main focus is needed elsewhere right now so shine on that and your wikifriends here will keep shining on you and waiting for your full return. --ARose Wolf 14:36, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

❤️ Atsme 💬 📧 18:07, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

August thanks

Thank you for improving articles in August! I try, today DYK for a GA by a banned user. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:37, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, Gerda! Atsme 💬 📧 03:43, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Today: Teresa Żylis-Gara, the second soprano to impress me on stage, died, - long live the memory of her beautiful singing, remembered with thanks. 28 August 2013 was a special concert day: look. After Hillbillyholiday gave me a tree. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:38, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

- so sorry, Gerda. Atsme 💬 📧 03:39, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

The future

Be prepared...this is going to change the way the world will be gathering knowledge. Atsme 💬 📧 13:52, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Botipedia, or Botchipedia? (In any case, we all knew the bots would eventually lord over us...) --Tryptofish (talk) 20:27, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Yeppers, but interestingly, a highly reputable & tech savvy friend referred to Parker as a "21st-century Paul Otlet". The Gates Foundation believes in the project - they funded it. Of late, WP has been earning its reputation as an "elitist" and very biased resource - after all, we do tend to mirror left-leaning news media, and WP:GNG certainly supports "elitism". Of course our politically-charged articles and religious articles have greatly contributed to the allegations of bias. Our doors are wide open to POV creep, and our articles arguably espouse a very biased POV as noted by several media outlets & academia, not to mention the fact that this condition is further enabled and supported by some of those in WP's own hierarchy, intentional or otherwise. In essence, we are contradicting our own motto as "the sum of all human knowledge". Now we have several active movements by various non-profit organizations that have decided to build a better mousetrap.
WP is supposed to be publishing neutral encyclopedic articles, and we have failed miserably in that department. Add to that, the mistreatment and attempts to control editors who actually do present other perspectives, or who may be critical of mainstream media, and so on. Some of our flaws are even noted in our own articles, such as Criticism of Wikipedia. I did the best I could at damage control, as have many others but all for naught as evidenced by my ongoing, and very unnecessary t-ban, which I view as a classic example of a misguided attempt to control the narrative, and a CYA of sorts, be it intentional or otherwise, but unmistakably with expectations of cognitive restructuring, which I adamantly oppose and will never accept. I see it as a big part of the whole "thought police" concept that is plaguing civil discourse on a grand scale. I fear that such control over people is due in part to POV warriors/advocacies who are supported by other like-minded individuals, all hiding behind their anonymity. It makes POV railroading a cakewalk for them, not to mention how we have chosen to reach consensus. How could those factors not motivate a move to algorithms and overall decentralization of the internet? It's a global movement. I guess we'll just have to sit and wait to see how it all turns out. Atsme 💬 📧 18:03, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Woops, I was just making a dumb joke. Didn't realize the seriousness of the ideas here. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:51, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

*lol* They're actually further ahead than the idea stage. Botipedia is scheduled to launch in November. Tim's project is here now, and there are quite a few more in the works. Atsme 💬 📧 18:10, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

When I first started here at Wikipedia I believed it was about "the sum of all human knowledge" with a few exceptions. I learned very quickly about "reliable" sources, mostly by studying myself, but also by being whacked on the head a few times. I am not at all political. I used to be more so when I was dealing with helping local native tribes seek recognition but I have long since moved away from that and now I just live on our homestead and make the world around us as wild as it can be. However, in regards to Wikipedia, my entire world got turned upside down when I found AfD after being directed to several articles on the Sioux that came up for deletion. It shattered my belief that Wikipedia was or even wanted to be a depository of the sum of all human knowledge.

I joined WiR and many other task forces and further saw the gender gap on Wikipedia, especially in regards to historical figures. At first I fought against it, admittedly turning Wikipedia in a battleground because this truly rocked my view of the encyclopedia. I think I was literally suffering from shock. After losing multiple AfD's for women in sports, mostly historical again, because their status was seen as less than, not because of actual talent level but because of perception and this belief that only men who are paid full time are considered professional. One could say I had a skewed view of what Wikipedia was supposed to be from the beginning but that was a view propagated by the WMF itself.

My "strategy" changed similar to waves on a pond. They travel back and forth. I figured if I pushed to hold Wikipedia to its very biased, I still believe it is, guidelines in which it would let a male athlete that had played in one "professional" game or match for more than a few seconds receive a two sentence article but denied the very existence of an entire career of amazing women athletes then maybe others would see the hypocrisy and seriously biased nature of the guidelines themselves and something might change. I never claimed I was the most intelligent but I can set some damn high lofty goals.

Unfortunately I now realize that the goal I set is just as unobtainable as the goal the WMF set in making Wikipedia some global depository for all the wealth of human knowledge. It will never happen because of the nature of human beings. We like what we like and we hate what other people like unless they like what we like. It has gotten to the point where we flat out will deny the smallest joy to our fellow humans even though it has no impact on us just because we can and we don't want them to be happy. We will do this in any way possible. Even though I refuse to live like that and I choose every day to live a life of kindness and understanding for my human brothers and sisters, I am in the minority these days. It's sad that Wikipedia can't be what we wish it would be but reality can be sad sometimes. --ARose Wolf 13:06, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Your thinking is not in the minority but the opposition wants you to believe that it is - read Rule #1. Atsme 💬 📧 01:16, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Why isn't there an article for Botipedia? -- Valjean (talk) 19:33, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Because it hasn't launched, yet? I think November will be the official launch date but don't hold me to it. What they've created is mind boggling, and in some instances TMI. They've been at it for nearly a decade, and have most of it perfected. Atsme 💬 📧 15:11, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

That makes sense. I didn't know about it until this mention. I watched the video and got the impression that "notability" is not a factor, and that this results in a huge (probably 95%) amount of useless and irrelevant information. It's still interesting, and I'd love to be kept in the loop if you learn more. Thanks. -- Valjean (talk) 20:09, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

I think you may be overlooking the crux of this incredible decentralization movement that is an effort by many to return the freedoms we all once enjoyed back when the world wide web was first created by Tim Berners Lee and members of his team who worked closely with him. See what Durov posted on Telegram. Also see this Pew Research result as it is another real eye-opener, but relative to public trust in media, and since so many of our articles are highly dependent on and sourced to media, it speaks volumes as to our neutrality and reliability. We can deny it all we want, but that doesn't resolve the issues of public perception. The internet has become a tool for propaganda that is being fed to the public in massive doses. WP is being seen as elitist, and that we are pushing a left-leaning POV rather than maintaining neutrality. As for notability, who exactly determines notability? Do you really believe that information seekers/researchers consider detailed information to be useless and irrelevant? Who are we to judge that? We should be providing as much information about a topic as we can because if we don't, Botipedia will, and what do you think that means to WP? You might want to do further research - step outside the box and see what other people are saying about us, our methods & agenda. I find it very disconcerting. Unfortunately, quite a bit of it is true, and we have no Project overseeing Damage Control. Wikimedia is full steam ahead with whatever floats their boat. Where is our full steam ahead and who is in charge of it? We need to do some serious rethinking if we are to be thought of as neutral much less the "sum of all knowledge", and hopefully, we can save us from getting lost in the move to decentralization...which is where we are headed right now. We have consistently denigrated all the sources that have been critical of WP rather than looking at it constructively in an effort to improve. That is like signing our own death certificate - it takes a certain amount of foresight to see where we are headed. The signs are there. Atsme 💬 📧 22:40, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

You are certainly https://www.breitbart. com/tech/2021/07/23/wikipedia-co-founder-larry-sanger-tells-tucker-carlson-he-is-embarrassed-by-site-he-created/ not alone in your concerns. -- Valjean (talk) 14:39, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't read breitbart. I follow Tim Berners-Lee, and a few others who are real game changers. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that regard. Your response brings to mind a story my mother read to me when I was a young child - it is titled The Three Little Pigs by The Brothers Grimm. There's a lot to be said about building a house of brick. Atsme 💬 📧 04:39, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

For his twenty-seventh birthday in 2011, Durov donated a million dollars to the Wikimedia Foundation. He has citizenship in a small Carribean island country, and very interesting and insightful comments on his Telegram channel. wbm1058 (talk) 17:05, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

NPP training

I recently had temporary new page reviewer rights revoked and was advised to request training. Please let me know if you are available to train. Amirah talk 18:11, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi AmirahBreen, I am in the middle of a major relocation that has turned out to be much bigger than I imagined. It will be at least another 2 to 3 weeks before I'm able to return to my normal routine. If you can wait that long, I'd be happy to help. Atsme 💬 📧 04:47, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

I hope the relocation is what you wanted and that it goes well. I've completely changed countries four times in my time, but at least - rather late in life - I've been in the same place in the same house for the past 16 years. When you're more settled, some game-changing is needed at WT:NPR. The essential function of NPP has been languishing since some people (including me) relocated from its coordination to what appears to be more interesting territory. Or in my case, just pissed off with Wikipedia after giving it years of service. Would you be up for having your arm twisted? Cheers, Chris. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 18:54, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Kudz! Good to hear from you!! I responded to your ping over at NPP before I came here to check my UTP. There's no way I'm going to be finished with this gawdawful move before Thanksgiving!! I hired professional movers to move the big stuff, but there's still a lot left at the ranch that I have to move, and little to no place to put it considering I downsized. Worse yet is the unpacking and getting things in place!! It has been a nightmare, and the Texas heat doesn't help at all. There was a time when I would have tried to find time to volunteer and put my personal duties on hold (pure craziness), but I'm feeling alot like you right now (and we're not alone). Anyway - I've spent too much time online as it is (only reason I was online was to register & do a quick check on the new security cameras I just installed) but now it's time to get back to the grindstone! Atsme 💬 📧 19:53, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Your input into Wikipedia is already missed, but I fully understand. I regret even coming back to Wikipedia nowadays to make the occasional throw-away comment or appeal, but as I have to consult the damned thing dozens of times a day for my day job, I'm stoopid enough to follow up on every ping and, well, one thing leads to another. Don't worry about the heat in Texas, it gets even warmer here in Thailand and diving into my pool doesn't help - it's as warm as bathwater! We're now looking forward to winter when the temperature will drop to 30ºC (85ºF). Take good care of yourself ❤️. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 20:26, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

A very sad loss

RIP JGHowes - an amazing man and Wikipedian, and a kind soul. I was hoping to one day meet him in person at a Wikicon or Wikimania. He led a full and interesting life, yet still made time for his volunteer efforts on Wikipedia and Commons. He will be greatly missed. Atsme 💬 📧 15:31, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Notification

I have answered the first subsection

Volunteer Response Team member topicon

Hi Atsme. I see the old File:OTRS Wikimedia.svg needs to be replaced as the name "online ticket request system" is being phased out and replaced by "volunteer response team". Topicons can't be too busy and reducing more complex user-box sized logos to topicon size doesn't work well unless the logo is very simple. So using File:Wikimedia VRT RGB logo.svg in a topicon doesn't work well. Though making the top-icons a bit bigger might help

I think spelling out "Wikimedia" in is redundant as the logo itself should be widely recognized to mean Wikimedia. I'm wondering if you would be able to create a new VRT topicon by editing that to remove "WIKIMEDIA" and increase the VRT font size to be at least as big as the WIKIMEDIA font if not even a bit bigger since it's just three letters and you want those 3 letters to be easy to read. – wbm1058 (talk) 14:49, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, wbm1058! I can indeed create a new image that will work for a topicon if you will create the template. I get in trouble with templates. I think VRTS is the formal title (Volunteer Response Team System, used by vrts-permissions user group & others). I'll create it and post it here. Atsme 💬 📧 14:56, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

commons:Category:VRTS has the current set of logos for VRTS. I suppose the "permission logo" is an alternative: File:Permission logo wikimedia 2021.svg

vs.

– I don't have a strong liking for any of the options I've seen, so maybe a creative person could make a better logo. – wbm1058 (talk) 14:03, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Wbm1058 - I began communication with an admin on Commons who is also an active VRT member. They may contact you in the next day or two. 🤞🏻 Atsme 💬 📧 22:45, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Ok - here is the graphic

for making the topicon template. Atsme 💬 📧 17:55, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Inventory of existing top-icon templates:

Template:OTRS topicon uses File:Vista-evolution-1.4.png and Template:Top icon default 20px:
Template:OTRS topicon1 (compare) uses File:OTRS Wikimedia.svg and Template:Top icon default 20px:
Template:OTRS topicon2 (compare) same as Template:OTRS topicon1 but sets the default width to 25px:

New Template:VRT topicon uses File:Wikimedia RGB VRT Topicon.png (compare) and Template:Top icon default 20px:
You can specify a larger default size by setting a default |width={{{width|25}}} value as Template:OTRS topicon2 does
Individual editors may specify a larger width on their page by overriding the default. I'll demonstrate with my next edit. — wbm1058 (talk) 19:05, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Ok, so...Wbm1058, how do we style the new template using curly brackets rather than a file? Atsme 💬 📧 23:26, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
{{VRT topicon}} – wbm1058 (talk) 00:44, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
Oh, ok - thank you! I designed the text to be easier to read per your initial suggestion. Your help is much appreciated!! Atsme 💬 📧 11:01, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
I like your latest effort the best so far, but something occurred to me. I recalled hearing something about "m:Visual identity guidelines" some time ago, I think it was when the Foundation made some announcement about branding. See HERE they specified a "minimum size" for the "foundation mark" and I fear that "top-icon size" is below their minimum! wbm1058 (talk) 23:36, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
Thanks, Wbm - BTW, I changed the default for the topicon to 45px so size is no longer a problem. There's a Common's admin who may be inadvertently creating a problem because of his misinterpretation of WMF's trademark/wordmark policy & guidelines. It never ends, does it? No good deed goes unpunished. Atsme 💬 📧 02:09, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) There's always someone at commons ready to grossly misinterpret trademark, copyright and WMF policy. Always. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 13:10, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Wbm1058 - considering the wrongful changes that were made to my work, and the false allegations of violating guidelines, what about the violative sizes of this trademark use User VRT compact as well as the topicon that replaced my design? How is it possible that trademark violations are allowed and compliant designs (Quick licensed by WMF) are nominated for deletion? It certainly looks like there may be some WP:OWN issues involved - hope I'm wrong. Atsme 💬 📧 17:42, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

FWIW, I'm always happy to lend a hand making graphics, if any help is wanted. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 13:12, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
That is very sweet of you, Mr. Pants. At the moment, a more pressing issue is in the queue and involves a conflict between Photoshop and Wikimedia's upload wizard. The Wizard is rejecting .png to .svg Photoshop conversions. I've been in discussion for the better half of the morning with Adobe techs who have been in contact with Wikimedia techs. I also just posted notice on DannyS12's UTP, but I'm not sure he's still with WMF. It's not a new issue as I noted on Danny's page and added a link to a prior discussion. Atsme 💬 📧 15:38, 5 August 2021 (UTC) Adding: MPants at work, I just found this as well.^{15:44, 5 August 2021 (UTC)}
Seeing Mr. Pajama Bottoms here reminded me of a funny video he showed me yesterday: [5]. That, and a bunch of related ones by the same guy. I think they're hilarious, and it seems to me that they also fit with your sense of humor. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:22, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
Whatever you do, @Atsme, remember, this is the guy that was "stuck in a... compromising situation" and asking for help himself just a few bars up. Now he offers help. :P --ARose Wolf 17:32, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
I've been stuck in worse things... Stickleback (talk) 17:39, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
Actually, I was referring to Mr. Silky Slacks, over there. I figured you had been stuck in worse situations being a fish, Trypto, least of which being a home aquarium. :D --ARose Wolf 17:46, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
Ah, I see, thanks. Yes, I need to change my water, and I'm pretty sure he needs to change his pants. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:50, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Atsme, give me a link to the png file, and I'll simply recreate it in Inkscape. Inkscape svg's tend to upload just fine. As for the rest of you degenerates, stop speculating about the contents of my pants. I mean really, all it takes is a couple of beers and some sweet talk to get em off me. Or a burglar. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 18:03, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
Agreed. I'm sure you have nothing in your pants. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:09, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
I guess I need to say it again: Stop spying on me when I'm changing, Tryp! I'm very insecure about my... deficiencies... ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 18:15, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
How far you have fallen: [6]! --Tryptofish (talk) 18:41, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

At last! I finally got him to stop following me around and trying to hug me. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:18, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
I wouldn't go that far... I wore extra Norwegian Wood for you, today. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 18:22, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
Hug... wood... Tree hugger! --Tryptofish (talk) 18:31, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

And somebody open a window! --Tryptofish (talk) 18:36, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Whistle Britches...I don't want to upload the .png files if we don't have to so is email an option? But first I want to watch the videos recommended by our favorite species of fish. Atsme 💬 📧 18:50, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Email is perfectly fine. And I wholly endorse the watching of those videos. The faincey way. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 18:55, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

MPants at work - sorry for the delay. I was busy researching how to hook a brush hog up to a moped. Actually, you can download this file, perform your magic, and then upload it as an .svg to replace the .png file that I uploaded. Simply click on "Upload a new version of this file (chunked upload)" which is located under the File history section. It allows you to upload a new version using the same name. I will email the other 2 but they haven't been uploaded, yet. Thanks a bunch!! Atsme 💬 📧 01:07, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

You can do that with a brush hog, but be careful not to do it with a tree hog. --Hogfish (talk) 17:46, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Be careful around sharp pointy objects Mr. Hogfish. --ARose Wolf 17:56, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

I agree. Spearphishing, too. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:57, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

What a creative lotte we have here.

Atsme 💬 📧 23:25, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

I can't overwrite a png with an svg file, so I put it at File:Wikimedia VRT RGB logo.Topicon 450.svg. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 03:31, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Nice job! If I may ask, why were you not able to overwrite the other file? Is there a Commons PAG that I've overlooked? I'm also curious to know what you did differently when converting the .png to .svg - did you use Inkscape? I also noticed that the outer glow around the letters did not pick-up the colors underneath. Is that from the conversion? I will be sending you the other 2 today, and respectfully request that you not upload them to Commons; rather, send them to me, if that's ok? Atsme 💬 📧 15:33, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

No, it's just a limitation of the mediawiki software (not really a failing, but just a feature that would hardly ever get used which they never implemented). The record for the file includes the extension as part of the name, (which is a unique key); to change the extension, you need a new record, which means a new file.

And yes, I created an SVG in Inkscape, imported your file, traced it (using guides to keep things neat) and then deleted the png and trimmed the document down to fit the geometry.

The glow around the letters is more or less the same as in the PNG file (I actually just fixed that), but mediawiki doesn't seem to support it (that's definitely a failing of the mediawiki software). If you open the file directly (If you've done so already, do it again then hit Ctrl+F5), you'll see it.

And yeah, I've got no problem emailing the files. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 17:13, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

MPants, you did such a nice job with that logo conversion, thank you! I was hoping you would be so kind as to create 2 different topicon templates - name the template for File:Wikimedia VRT RGB logo.Topicon 450.svg {{tl:WP VRT topicon1}}, and the template for File:Wikimedia RGB VRT Topicon.png {{tl:WP VRT topicon2}}. The latter is currently used in userboxes on other language WPs. I don't think the new template names will overwrite the "official" VRT topicon template (with its teensie-weensie wordmarks), or mess-up anyone's userbox but you'll make sure of that, right? Atsme 💬 📧 23:03, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

I'll look into it during the work week, as I have time to do so (I usually do more editing from work, anyways). I'll make sure nothing gets broken in the process. It might take me a few days to finish those emailed icons. I just finished up a different .svg for the article Shit flow diagram, and I'm pooped. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 03:19, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Much appreciated pun usage going on here. You should save it for compost though if you don't already. Food for thought. --ARose Wolf 15:01, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

MPants - as they say down south...the winds blows and the shit flows. Your diagram presents a shit-load of stuff to take in. ARoseWolf, yes indeed, compost is definitely good fertilizer and makes food for thought even richer. Atsme 💬 📧 17:40, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

I guess he had an involuntary response. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:13, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

I know you've been busy but you might be interested in {{User VRT-Wiki/sandbox}}. If you want to replace {{User OTRS-Wiki}} on your user page just replace that with {{subst:User VRT-Wiki/sandbox}}. – wbm1058 (talk) 22:23, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Wbm1058 - this is the first break I've had in a while, and wanted to say THANK YOU for the template!! I went ahead and used it on my user page, and also as a sort of topicon on this page since the "official topicon" is so tiny, it is difficult to see, much less read. Atsme 💬 📧 07:04, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

I just made Template:VRT topicon use the same image as well – since you're the only one using that template at the moment, it's essentially a "personal topicon" for now. – wbm1058 (talk) 12:25, 3 October 2021 (UTC)