User talk:Bduke/Archive 6

BTW

I moved the discussion to my new WP Physics-specific talk page. You might want to watch it since I'm eventually going to reply. Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW} 05:37, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Newsletter - July 2008

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→ This newsletter/release was delivered by ENewsBot · 12:19, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Physics Poll

There is currently a poll about WikiProject Physics in general. Please take some time to answer it (or part of it), as it will help coordinate and guide the future efforts of the Project. Thank you. Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW} 18:16, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

A discussion

A discussion on Should WikiProjects get prior approval of other WikiProjects (Descendant or Related or any ) to tag articles that overlaps their scope ? is open here . We welcome you to participate and give your valuable opinions. You are receiving this note as you are a member of WikiProject Council -- TinuCherian ^{(Wanna Talk?)} - 12:28, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

No deletion of Richard Di Natale

Wikpedia is a joke. I quit --CatonB (talk) 22:57, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Content of deleted page

Hi. I heard that you can get me a copy of the content of a deleted article. My article, Wikipedia:Save the trivia, was deleted under miscellany for deletion. I am writing an essay about keeping trivia, and I could use it for research. Contact me here. --Oh no, it's Alien joe! 15:41, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok. Thank you. --Oh no, it's Alien joe! 00:46, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

TSA template

I created {{ScoutingTSA}} as a more comprehensive template for TSA. Let me know waht you think. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 13:46, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Looks good, but I have not really thought through how this should look when we have finished merging the Counties/Areas into regions (note not TSA Regions). Thanks for doing it. For a start I suggest it is called "ScoutingUK", not "ScoutingTSA", the title line should be "Scouting in the United Kingdom" and the organisation line should include the B-PSA. We also need British spelling of "organisation". We might also add some links to Guiding. --Bduke (talk) 02:00, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Asian Tiger Capital Partners

Hi
Since you participated in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Asian Tiger Capital Partners and the closing admin isn't around much, I'll come to you with this. The Editor has added a new reference to it [1], if memory serves, so I won't AfD it again. However:

• Does it make sense to restore the old revisions? I'm guessing that User:Adeeb.shams had a copy of it, and I don't remember how many contributers the old version had, and if any of those contributions are still in there. GFDL demands that contributions are properly attributed, so a restore might be necessary. I might be wrong though.
• Is it customary to add the {{oldafdfull}} template after a recreation?

Cheers, Amalthea (talk) 14:33, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

As far as I can see, the original author has not added anything. He seems to have just recreated an article that was deleted after a discussion at AfD. The reference you mention above was in the old version. The correct procedure is to speedy delete this new version. Do you have any reason to suggest why this should not be done? If deleted the author can do the correct thing and take it to deletion review. I will however ask the original author for comment. --Bduke (talk) 23:18, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, weird that I didn't list it at the discussion. Anyway, just go ahead.
Cheers, Amalthea (talk) 23:26, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Thus far, he hasn't added any references in spite of you message, although he has edited it. Are you following up on this? --Amalthea (talk) 07:23, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

I have just deleted it as a recreation of a page deleted after a AfD discussion. I'll inform him on his talk page. --Bduke (talk) 08:30, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

RfB Thank You spam

Thank you for participating in my RfB! I am very grateful for the confidence of the community shown at my RfB, which passed by a count of 154/7/2 (95.65%). I have read every word of the RfB and taken it all to heart. I truly appreciate everyone's input: supports, opposes, neutrals, and comments. Of course, I plan to conduct my cratship in service of the community. If you have any advice, questions, concerns, or need help, please let me know. Again, Thanks! — Rlevse • Talk • 08:48, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Invite

Century Tower

As a current or past contributor to a related article, I thought I'd let you know about WikiProject University of Florida, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of University of Florida. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks and related articles. Thanks!

69.23.202.204 (talk) 20:28, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - August 2008

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Australian ufology AfD 3rd

Hello Bduke,

• Have placed the AfD data up at the [2]. Yes this is the 3rd AfD. Vufors (talk) 02:55, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
• The nominator is a skeptic and serial RRR, bully and abuser SEE ADMIN BLOCK LOG [3] who uses a string of sudden RfD and other tactics to generate deletions (Thats another story). He thinks that all odd wiki projects need to have a science foundation to exist at Wiki etc. He has gone after all the Australian page this time. Best Regards Vufors (talk) 02:55, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
• PS: If you go to his Contribution Log [4] you can see him AfD hopping. He does not build anything, just takes it all down! Thats his MO. Regards Vufors (talk) 02:59, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Image

How do you insert a image? Answer on my discussion page. Marshall T. Williams (talk) 14:08, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Science and Religion List

I recently added some well-referenced scholars along with solid sources to the list: B. Alan Wallace and Seyyed Hossein Nasr. The later scholar (who is an editorially selected spokesperson for this area) is directly due to your comment on Science and Islam. Is the list any better? --Firefly322 (talk) 18:15, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Scout Counties

I've been mulling over the Scout Counties issue.

• I notice that the all of the county articles are XXX Scout County (The Scout Association) - do we want to keep this as or return to Scouting in XXX.

This change caused some agro. I want to remove all these articles, as I already have done for Northern Ireland, Wales and Greater London, replacing them with articles on "Scouting in XXX" where XXX is one of the 12 EU approved regions. They are Scotland, Wales, NI, and 8 in England. I have the merge tags on the Counties in North West England and that is ready almost to be done. I have recently tagged the Counties in the North East government region (which is smaller than the Scout Association region in this case as that also includes Yorkshire) and a draft is getting there for that article. The other point is that these grouping are not the Scout Association groupings. The problem with the "Scouting in Avon" etc. articles is that they were about the Scout Association and that is why a change of name was done. If we do not follow the SA regions, we can add stuff about the B-PSA and so on. I am however resisting adding about Guides. I do not think anybody in the UK thinks the term "Scouting" includes "Guiding". They have articles on most of the few Guide regions which are different from the SA ones and the official government ones. I think we should leave well alone there. --Bduke (talk) 11:27, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

• I've had another thought about historical Scouting counties (they have changed somewhat in hundred years - plus they don't all match up with the modern political divisions of the UK - especially the areas in Scotland)... Maybe the 'xxx' in Scouting in XXX should refer to a modern political county - and then there should be information about what counties (and associations) serve(d) that locale?

Exactly, but I am using the EU approved regions. The number of counties is just too large. We no longer have enough editors to maintain them. The Welsh and London County articles were terrible. I am finding better stuff in NW Engalnd and NE England, but there was not even an article on Durham or East Lancs. --Bduke (talk) 11:27, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

• As for the actual county articles - I think that we should remove the listings of Scout Groups within the Districts. Most Scout Groups have very localised notability, so it's not appropriate that they are included (yes, I know I instituted this originally, but I was young and naive ;) ). We should definitely keep the founding 100, and some others (like there's a particular Scout Group who is allowed to wear the Gang Show necker - but most should be dropped.

I agree. It seemed a good idea at the time, but over the 18 months nearly that you have been away, I just keep seeing edits that add, alter or remove Group information when I have no idea if it is true or vandalism. --Bduke (talk) 11:27, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

• So - how do want me to tackle this?

1. straight into the Royal Berkshire article (since that's my old County, its the one I'm most familiar with) - including information about the presence of BPSA?
2. start at the beginning (Avon Scout County (The Scout Association))
3. one of the unwritten ones?

-- Horus Kol Talk 09:46, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Both Royal Berkshire and Avon are among the best. However if you agree with what I am doing, could you tackle the regions that these two are in? Tag them for merging with discussion on Talk:Scouting in England where the future merges are set out but not yet proposed. Look at the Greater London article and the two I have in sandbox box form, both of which I have done some work on today. Alternatively I could tag them for merge and set the debate off and you could collect the material from the articles to be merged in a sandbox as I have been doing. Also please take a look at Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting/Country and region articles, which I am suggesting should go on the talk pages of articles that might attract the list cruft etc. It is discussed on the talk page of the Scouting Project. Rlevse suggested I made it a bit smaller and I have tried to do that. My experience in pulling in several County articles and then trying to combine the material to give one article has been positive. It seems to work. A large amount of material can just go. I then added a lot more about camp sites, getting all the major ones mentioned. It is beginning to get a more uniform approach. I really think this is the way to go. Maybe in the future they will get too large and we wll have to fork them off. However they could just be tagged for deletion. The deletionists are much more active than when you were around here last. The criteria for inclusion are tougher. I suspect a majority of the County articles had no non-Scouting references. I had a real job finding such references for London. I thought it would be easy but it was not. Anyway, that is quite enough for tonight. I hope you can get back into working on this. --Bduke (talk) 11:27, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Started - User:Horus_Kol/Sandbox - User_talk:Horus_Kol/Sandbox - -- Horus Kol Talk 11:33, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Great. User:Horus_Kol/Sandbox is an excellent start. I'll leave it with you for now. I do know this area, having been at Oxford University for 6 years, RSL of the university Rovers and I also lived in Reading for a year. Lte me know if I can help. I'll work on the sandboxes I have started. --Bduke (talk) 11:42, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I've been thinking about dropping the "references" to the District sites... many of these sites are a simple page with a graphic, and very rarely have any detailed information them. At least, the "references" in the District lists, since existence of a District can be confirmed on County or the National sites - if a District site is used elsewhere as a reference to some other information then I will leave as is. -- Horus Kol Talk 10:22, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree. I was planning to go that way later. For now I was making the District links references, in case we did need them, and not just in "External links". Go for it. --Bduke (talk) 10:28, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Darwin Rebellion

Hi Brian, I have working on this article for some time and want to get it to Good Article status. I have recently put it through the WP:PR process and as a consequence, made a number of suggested changes. However, it still needs another set of eyes to review for copy edit purposes, before I nomimate it for GA consideration. Would you mind please. Thanks, Spy007au (talk) 11:01, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

William Hanna FAC preps

I've taken this article from this to this, in preps for filing it for FAC. I could you some help now with:

1. finding a free image of Hanna
2. some good copyediting
3. expanding the lead

and when that's done I'll unlink the repetitive links (things can change during ce, so I don't want to do now), then file for FAC.

Any help is greatly appreciated. — Rlevse • Talk • 02:49, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Overzealous bot - image removed from sandbox

I see that a bot has removed the district badges I was using at User:Horus Kol/Sandbox - this is going to make things a bit difficult... any ideas how to prevent this? -- Horus Kol Talk 03:05, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

It does. You must have missed the solution I explain on the Talk:Scouting in England page. I have been commenting them out before I move the sandbox in place. Use "<!-- Image .. -->". I then sort them out as the first edit. It is also a good idea to start the cat with "[[:" to avoid putting the sandbox into the category. I'm in two minds about the District badges (the County ones are fine). In Scouting in North West England, I have put some of them into galleries. If we had a badge for every District in the region, the article would be very cluttered by badges. I think I would prefer only having the County badges. The District ones may be seen as cruft. --Bduke (talk) 04:05, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah I missed it... I'm going to go ahead with the District badges for now - we can always take them out later, but I do think they are items of interest. -- Horus Kol Talk 09:26, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree they are items of interest. It is just that there are a lot of Districts covered by each of these articles. We are no way complete on any of them. I fear completion of all District badges will be a problem, but, as you say, that is for another day. --Bduke (talk) 10:04, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

request for retrieval of wikitext for deleted article The Gadfly (Philosophy Magazine)

Could you please retrieve a copy of the wikitext of the deleted article The Gadfly (Philosophy Magazine) for me. Thanks. Mroberto2121

Sure. Email me from my user page giving me am email address and I will send you a copy of the article by email. There are 42 versions of it. Do you want the last version? --Bduke (talk) 21:45, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Noble gas

Why did you do this? The article is on the main page – please unprotect the article. Gary King (talk) 03:32, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Wizardman has done it. —Anonymous Dissident^Talk 10:06, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

I realized that when I read the comment from User:Gary King. Apologies to all. I had not realised it was on the main page. It was just a chemistry article on my watch list. --Bduke (talk) 12:37, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Scouts du Mali

Hi Chris, I am not convinced this name change is in accordance with the compromise decision I mediated long ago. However, I think "Scouts of Mali" would be the correct name as a clear translation of "Scouts du Mail". Why do you think we have to use French and not English in this case? Cheers, Brian. Bduke (talk) 00:13, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

The damn database lock ate my first writing of this. Good morning! I have always moved articles from "Scouting in x" to the name of the org when we know the name of the org. I was going over these last night and for some reason we didn't do this in this case, but rather made the name redirect to the generic one. In addition, the compromise was for when there is a commonly used or official English name. In the case of small not-yet-WOSM ones like this, for instance Association des Scouts de Djibouti, there is not. Wasn't trying to be controversial. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 00:26, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you moved the discussion here. I would have read a reply on your talk page and replied there. However, let us keep it here now. There are several issues here. First, step 2 of the process says "If no official English name becomes available, we seek consensus on whether there is one clear translation to English of the organisation's name and use that". Step 1 is whether there is an official English translation. This is at Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting/Article names. There has been no attempt to find a consensus about a English translation. Second, there are problems with the article. What is the source that says they are called "Scouts du Mali"? Indeed where does most of the material of the page come from? The two references do not provide this material. Third, are we sure there is only this one organisation in Mali? If not, I think we should keep it at "Scouting in Mali", and add anything about other organisations we come across. "Scouting in Mali" can talk about the past and about hints of other organisations. "Scouts du Mail" has to stick to talking about this organisation. Have you been following the UK articles. There was an objection to renaming "Scouting in (say) Kent" to "Kent Scout County (The Scout Association)" because this was advertising. I am now merging all the County/Area articles to articles about official government regions and including all Scout organisations. I have altered the State articles in Australia to cover the Baden-Powell Scouts as well as Scouting Australia. I think the trend is going to be to merge articles on one association in a country to an article on all, but I will stick to what I know about. We have far to many small articles and increasingly we are seeing that they are not easy to maintain. There is too many fly-by additions of original research. I think at least for now until we are more certain about what is really going on in Mali that "Scouting in Mali" is a much better name. What is the best more public place to discuss this? Cheers, Brian. Is Japan meeting your expectations? Bduke (talk) 01:16, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, much as I respect you, all of that is a stretch, looking at the situation. If this really bothers you, we can move it to the Project talkpage, get more input. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 03:06, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Hang on a minute, mate! What is a stretch? I raise several different issues. Perhaps we should take it to the Project talk page, but I'm rather tied up right now. Could we first however try to clarify a few related points? How do we know there is Scouting in Mali right now, what is the organization called, and is there a single organization? The two references do not answer these questions and indeed do not support 90% of the article. The only justification for having a French title is that it is the name of the organization. That is the main reason why I think we should stick to "Scouting in Mali" until we are clear about the sources for the content of the article. Bduke (talk) 04:07, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Victorian College of Pharmacy

Hey Brian, I was wondering whether or not it would be appropriate to move the Monash University Victorian College of Pharmacy page to something more meaningful, given the recent name change occurring at the campus? On a different note, do you have another email besides your bigpond one I can contact you on, as I want to ask you some questions whether or not you mind me assessing Gaussian 98 on the VCP linux cluster. Huyie (talk) 02:48, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Point 1. Agree - in line with other Faculty articles, I think, rather than campus articles but perhaps it should be discussed on Talk:Monash University. Point 2. The bigpond one is fine. Others forward there. --Bduke (talk) 06:57, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Oxford Wikimania 2010 and Wikimedia UK v2.0 Notice

Hi,

As a regularly contributing UK Wikipedian, we were wondering if you wanted to contribute to the Oxford bid to host the 2010 Wikimania conference. Please see here for details of how to get involved, we need all the help we can get if we are to put in a compelling bid.

We are also in the process of forming a new UK Wikimedia chapter to replace the soon to be folded old one. If you are interested in helping shape our plans, showing your support or becoming a future member or board member, please head over to the Wikimedia UK v2.0 page and let us know. We plan on holding an election in the next month to find the initial board, who will oversee the process of founding the company and accepting membership applications. They will then call an AGM to formally elect a new board who after obtaining charitable status will start the fund raising, promotion and active support for the UK Wikimedian community for which the chapter is being founded.

You may also wish to attend the next London meet-up at which both of these issues will be discussed. If you can't attend this meetup, you may want to watch Wikipedia:Meetup, for updates on future meets.

We look forward to hearing from you soon, and we send our apologies for this automated intrusion onto your talk page!

Addbot (talk) 19:49, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Motto of the day

Hello, I notice you're using one of the {{motd}} templates, run by Wikipedia:Motto of the day. You may have noticed that some of the mottos recently have been followed by a date from 2006, or on occasion simply "Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia". The reason for this is that Motto of the day is in some very serious need of help. Participation in the project, which has never been especially high, has dropped considerably over this past summer, to the point we have had several days where no motto was scheduled to appear at all. Over the past several weeks, I've been the only editor scheduling mottos at all, but there aren't enough comments on some of these mottos to justify their use. If we do not get some help - and soon - your daily mottos will stop. In order for us to continue updating these templates for you, we need your help.

When you get a chance between your normal editing, could you stop by our nominations page and leave a few comments on some of the mottos there, especially those that do not have any comments yet? This works very simply; you read a motto, decide whether or not you like it, and post your opinion just below the motto. That's it - no experience required, just an idea of what you personally like and what you feel reflects Wikipedia and its community. If you do have past experience with the project, then please close some of the older nominations once they've got a decent consensus going. There are directions on the nominations page on how to do this.

If you have any questions, please let me know, or post on the project's talk page. I'm looking forward to reading your comments on the suggested mottos, and any additional suggestions you'd like to make. Until then, happy editing! Hersfold ^(t/a/c) 01:41, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - September 2008

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→ This newsletter/release was delivered by ENewsBot · 10:02, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Re:Orphaning tactic

"Please leave the Scouting Project some time to come to agreement on this." The scouting project has no more authority than I do. If the project will deal with it, I am happy to leave you to it, but from what I have seen so far, you won't... J Milburn (talk) 10:14, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

See Milburn's post on my talk page. He obviously is only willing to accept his view and not listen to others. — Rlevse • Talk • 10:29, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

sorry

was just doing cleanup where I saw it. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 07:29, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Channel Islands

What about merging Guernsey and Jersey?, else they will likely stay stubs. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 05:25, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

I thought about that, but they really are different political places. There is no political body that covers the Channel Islands. All Islands are in one or the other. I would prefer to rename them to Scouting and Guiding in Jersey etc. There is a long and very detailed web history of Guiding on one of them, I forget which (It might even be both). There is also a lot more to say about Scouting and Guiding under German occupation in WWII. I might get around to look at them after I have finished Scotland. I'm off-wiki next week. They certainly do not need to stay stubs. --Bduke (Discussion) 09:10, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

I like your ideas. Also, should we do subsections within them for Alderney and Sark? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 02:06, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Gary Chan

Could you please help to recover and send the deleted passage of "Gary Chan" for me? I think someone misuderstood its content, thinking it was meaningless and should be deleted. This "Gary Chan" is the member of Legislative Council of Hong Kong. Please attach its content in my discuss page, thanks! Ricky@36 (talk) 08:51, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, as you can see from the top of this page, I am on a break. I'll look into this at the weekend. --Bduke (Discussion) 22:11, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Oscar Werner Tiegs

Hi Bduke,

Thanks for helping out with the speedy on Oscar Werner Tiegs. I have a significant draft almost done, but off line. Yep did know about him beign a founding fellow of the AAS too. It will be a couple of days before I can up load it though.

I wish some of the deletionists would be as gung ho about some of the real crap that exists . . . It was speedy nominated within 60 seconds of me creating the page . . . They did not even bother to look at what links here before clobbering it . . .

Cheers. Peter N.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Pee Tern (talk • contribs)

No worries. I have added at little, but will stop now. It really pays to wait until you create a stub in order to make sure that you assert notability. The best is that I just fund out he was FRS. Also nothing much did link to the article. Sometimes it pays to make redlinks before you create an article. Quite a few articles now link there. --Bduke (Discussion) 01:15, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - October 2008

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→ This newsletter/release was delivered by ENewsBot · 10:53, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Career Academies UK

Brian, thanks for leaving a note re Career Academies UK.

I believe the organisation to be notable for the following reasons: It is a charitable organisation in the UK which is supported by over 500 corporates, working to raise the aspirations of 16 - 19 year olds. It works in over 100 schools and currently works with about 2000 young people a year. Its board is made up of some of the UK's leading business people. (And it is chaired by Win Bischoff, named by The Times as Britain's most powerful business leader) It has had exceptional success over the past six years - and has been described by the UK government (and opposition) as an important educational movement It has recently been awarded the Global Best Award by the Conference Board of Canada for its work.

Its sister organisation in the US, the national Academy Foundation, is listed on Wikepida.

Hope this helps.

John —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnccmay (talk • contribs) 19:50, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Update on sorting discussion

Update. Carcharoth (talk) 15:47, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Melb meeting

Any chance you can make it to Wikipedia:Meetup/Melbourne 11 ? Billinghurst may be more likely to come if someone like yourself is headlining the show. (you have mutual interests) :-) John Vandenberg ^(chat) 12:12, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Sure, I was planning to. --Bduke (Discussion) 20:31, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Happy Bduke/Archive 6's Day!

User:Bduke/Archive 6 has been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian, and therefore, I've officially declared today as Bduke/Archive 6's day! For being such a beautiful person and great Wikipedian, enjoy being the Star of the day, dear Bduke/Archive 6! Peace, Rlevse ~ A record of your Day will always be kept here.

For a userbox you can add to your userbox page, see User:EVula/Userboxes/Happy Me Day! and my own userpage for a sample of how to use it. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:46, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Copyvio in Scouts Australia

The section Scouts Australia#Scouting in Australia (original named Scouting begins in Australia) was copied from Scouts Australias's website as a whole. Large portions of this text are still in use in the article. I checked the source via Internet Archive where the text can be found since 1999 while our article was started in 2004.

I do not know how to handle this in en.wp. In de.wp it would result in a full deletion of the article with very little hope for the restauration of some content. --jergen (talk) 11:54, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - November 2008

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→ This newsletter/release was delivered by ENewsBot · 06:08, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

G'day Wikimedian :-)

Whilst it's quite likely you'll have heard this news on the grapevine, in your email inbox, or even in person - I thought that it was sufficiently exciting to warrant giving each of you a 'new messages' orange bar! This particular orange bar has been brought to you to let you know that Wikimedia Australia is now open for members!

I'm not on the committee or anything, and that's where the credit is due in getting everything to this point, but I think it would be absolutely fantastic for folks who wish to support the australian wiki community, to go ahead and sign up - we're quite likely to be the world's fatest growing chapter at the moment! Join Us :-)

Here's a little more about membership, and the mailing list in particular is well worth signing up to as well, and is a good forum to get answers to any questions answered, or to share any ideas. I've dropped these notes in under my own steam, and you've received one because you're on this list - feel free to ask me any questions, or anything - I can certainly point you in the right direction :-) cheers all, Privatemusings (talk) 04:03, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Scouting in Western Australia

Howdy. You left a note on my talk page on 30 August, 2008. Sorry I haven't replied before now, but I haven't logged into Wikipedia for some months.

To answer the questions that you asked:

Is it correct that State Governors are called Chief Scout within their states? Yes, that's correct. Both the National organisation and the Branches (ie. State Associations) have Chief Scouts and Chief Commissioners. The historical reasoning probably traces back to each Branch originally being directly affiliated with Scout Headquarters in London (as it was then). The Australian Branches only "federated" into a National organisation some decades later. As a rough guess, I think it was the mid-50s, but we'd need to find a source for that info.

Also can you provide a source for the membership figures? Uh, no. For some annoying reason Scouts WA doesn't publish membership figures in a publicly available place. It's pretty frustrating, because I do support the referencing philosophy on Wikipeda.

I am not sure whether it is appropriate to change the info in the infoboxes to be state based rather than national Scouts Australia based, but I do think we should do it on all state Scouting articles or on none. What is your thinking behind the change you made? Yeah, I agree with the all or none approach. My thinking was simple: a) both the National body and each Branch have Wikipedia articles, so it's perfectly feasible to list the National and Branch Chief Scouts and Chief Commissioners; and b) to say that the Michael Jeffery is the Chief Scout of a Branch is plainly incorrect. (It is inconvenient that the term Chief Scout is used at both organisational levels, but if the Prime Minister was called a Premier, saying that Kevin Rudd is the Premier of Western Australia would be equally incorrect.)

I'd welcome your thoughts in return. -- Andrew Mill (talk) 12:28, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Chemical education

I want to rename chemistry education to chemical education because I've seen only the latter term in use where I live (in the USA). Is "chemistry education" particularly common elsewhere? What do you think about renaming the article? I'm asking you because you've edited the article, and I'm hesitant to act on my own because the article has gone by the existing name for quite a while. Crystal whacker (talk) 00:09, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree. However I have a recollection that it was discussed and there was no consensus. Have a look at the talk page. There was a discussion to alter the category which is differently named but that failed as no consensus so the article and the category have different names, which is totally unsatisfactory. I am torn whether to just rename the article or to start a discussion on the talk page. Maybe the latter would be wiser. Let us keep the discussion here for now. --Bduke (Discussion) 00:58, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

I checked the talk page as you suggested. Your comment was at Talk:Chemistry education#Rename and it links to the proposed rename's discussion here. If I were commenting there I'd advise to keep the category as "chemical education" and rename the article to that same name. It may be time to reopen that discussion or just go ahead and change it. My sense from reading the rename discussion was that American chemists (like me) prefer "chemical education" and people from elsewhere in the world don't have a strong preference either way, but may prefer "chemistry education" because it has the word "chemistry" in the name. I'm not dismissing that argument, but that's what it comes to.

I think it's better to have standard conventions even if they don't make everyone happy. That's why Wikipedia always writes "caesium" and "aluminium" even though American spelling is "cesium" and "aluminum". So while I don't have a strong preference for "chemical education," I think it should be renamed for the sake of consistency. Crystal whacker (talk) 23:50, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

I would not want to reopen the discussion on the category as it is named how I think it should be. You agree. Frankly, I have no idea where the term "chemistry education" is used. Here in Australia we talk about "Chemical Education" and that is the name of the RACI Division and in the title of its journal. In UK the RSC Division, I think, is called "Chemical Education", although the journal is called "Education in Chemistry". As you say "Chemical Education" is used in the US. I will start a new discussion on the talk page, but not until after the weekend because I am tied up. I want to also address the content issues that were discussed earlier in the year. --Bduke (Discussion) 02:55, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Okay, that works. It's interesting that you mention the weekend. Here we have Thanksgiving, but I guess in Australia you don't...or maybe you celebrate it anyway? Crystal whacker (talk) 18:12, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

No, Thanksgiving is not something we celebrate and I did not even know it was coming up or indeed what date it is on. I had of course heard of it. Different countries have very different cultures. As for holidays, we have different holidays (in part) in each State or Territory. Have a good Thanksgiving. --Bduke (Discussion) 21:01, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Date linking

I'm not convinced that linking the month and day is needed, but a strong argument can be made for the year, especially:

--year of birth --year of death --year of major events in a person's life (for example, Reagan took office in 1981).

Remember, the entire reason we record dates is to establish events in context of chronology. Also, one of the two major rationales for Wikipedia is wiki-linking (the other is "anyone can edit"). Not linking dates removes the rationale for the date in the first place, and robs the user of the benefit of wiki-linking (they can establish context in their mind if well-educated, but many, many young people can't recall who won WWII or have never heard of Len Bias).

There should be, of course, a major exception to date linking that includes the day, month, and year: the world's oldest person. One of the main points (other than scientific interest) of tracking the world's oldest person is to demarcate the boundary between living history and the dead past. Note, for example, Edna Parker was "born the same day as Harold Lloyd" and in the term of president Grover Cleveland:

http://www.kirkcurnutt.com/pb/wp_5aa9d204/wp_5aa9d204.html

As many of you know, Kirk's great-grandmother, Edna Parker, is the oldest documented person in the world. She was born April 20, 1893.

That's right: 1-8-9-3.

Grover Cleveland became the twenty-fourth U.S. president one month earlier.

She was born on the same day and year as silent-movie star Harold Lloyd, whose greatest success, Safety Last, occurred in 1923, eighty-five years ago.

Sincerely, Ryoung122 11:29, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Response to:

Take a look at Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)#Linking and autoformatting of dates and other stuff you can find from there. The stuff you added back is really autoformatting as the people concerned are not, I think, mentioned on the page you are linking to. So, these dates were originally accepted, then not accepted and now something of a debate is going on. Perhaps you can take your pick, but I think they are just clutter. --Bduke (Discussion) 20:29, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ryoung122"

Bduke, we can disagree but I'd like it if we first understood each other's point. My point is that history is simply current events (that may not be current). A person doesn't have to be mentioned on the other end of the link for it to mean something. What happened in 1969? Man landed on the moon, Woodstock, Stonewall, etc. What happened in 1893? 1682? Fewer people are likely able to answer such a question. Providing a link makes that easier. Since the whole point of dates is to establish context, why not link the context to the date? Makes sense to me.Ryoung122 02:32, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

I suggest you join the debate about date links. I really do not care. I was trying to do what I thought was current policy, but it now seems that that policy is not clear cut. --Bduke (Discussion) 02:54, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Hello, I'm sorry for butting in, but for Bduke: The opinion for delinking dates has not "moved back". What happened is that there has been a vocal minority against the delinking of dates because there is "no consensus for it"; thus the delinkers have stopped their activities to allow for discussion. Two RFCs have been established at WT:MOSNUM that are directly related to the issue. For now, I suggest to not delink dates, and especially alone edit war on delinking dates, until the whole debate dies down. Your input in the RFCs at the link I provided would be greatly appreciated, as would yours, Ryoung122 if you are watching this page. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:49, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - December 2008

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on revert

Hi Bduke, why you revert Firefly name from PC GAMESS page? PC GAMESS now have official name Firefly. http://classic.chem.msu.su/gran/gamess/index.html