User talk:Lukobe/Archive Mar 2007

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Just to let you know I wasn't changing ZIP to zip! Rich Farmbrough 18:29 3 June 2006 (UTC).

Ballard Library

I see you put my pic of the Ballard Library on the Seattle Library's page.

Sam iv 04:15, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Long talk page

Greetings! Your talk page is getting a bit long in the tooth - please consider archiving your talk page (or ask me and I'll archive it for you). Cheers! BD2412 T 00:10, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

  • Good - it is accomplished. Cheers again! BD2412 T 00:34, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

My Picture

What do you mean not representative? I cannot represent all Asian people from East Asian Americans to Southeast Asian Americans to South Asian Americans. No picture can represent everyone. I don't know how my picture makes the encyclopedia unreliable. I'm not going to re-add it until a full 24 hours to avoid the three revert rule which you have broken by making three reverts in less than 24 hours. --Dark Tichondrias 00:17, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your wonderful expansion of Daylighting

Great job. I had never heard the term before (and my son-in-law is a restoration engineer for King's county). Pople need to be educated about this. Good work. KarenAnn 09:58, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

3region map

The three region map illustrates the point of the section called who calls themself Asian in the Asian people article.--Dark Tichondrias 19:23, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Style for Talk: pages

Hi, This is moving off-topic with respect to the original post page (Talk:Ravenna, Seattle, Washington), so here.
Re. "Wikipedia:WTF?_OMG!_TMD_TLA._ARG! --Lukobe 17:59, 26 June 2006 (UTC)" at Talk:Ravenna, Seattle, Washington, that page was well done : ) Having searched some technical b-boards or lists, I was ready for worse. (WP seems to have some Easter eggs, too, among shortcuts.) As Far As I Know (AFAIK), I'm using grammatical sentences and only the most common acronyms. I use the shortcuts for source references, after first mentioning a full name and acronym, since citing sources is so very rare anyway. WP and MoS (Wikipedia and Manual of Style) are so very common I expected they would be familiar. (Since Wikipedia is officially encouraging citation of sources, I could do that within references on Talk pages, too : ) I used [1], [2] answers to your questions because I wanted to show rather than tell. However, this tangent loses the thread: What is the rest of "leave such information out altogether"?
Thanks, G

PS: I have as yet found nothing showing U-VIllage Seattle is anything but about Maybe among the maps at Seattle Department of Planning of Development (DPD), but apart from schlepping downtown to the Department or the main library, I haven't yet found anything other than corroboration. --GoDot 04:57, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Term "Asian fetish" as slang "not necessary"

What do you mean by this? See talk page for asian fetish. section on slang. Logoi 00:30, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Removal of MEChA link

You removed the external link No MEChA No Racism because you believed that the author was non-notable, but the author had two years of experience as a MEChA member, granting the author credibility. This author has more credibility than the other two authors who have never been in the organization. Their speculative beliefs have never been confirmed by actual experience.--Dark Tichondrias 07:10, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Pike Place Market and the First Starbucks

Hey there Lukobe, not sure I agree with you. The pike place market is the building, not the area. My neighbor is one the board of directors and hates it when people assume it is the whole area. a pet peeve of his, not our problem. none-the-less... The website for pike place market does not list Starbucks as being one of the stores there. Though you promtped me to do some more research. According to the Starbucks website their first store was indeed at the market. The starbucks page here on wiki lists it as now being one block south as you contend. I think a fair compromise is to list the first starbucks was originally there but has sinced moved "one block south" to use the same terminology on the wiki starbucks listing. do you think this would work? 05:38, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Market Map

Hey there, Let's be clear here, I'm just trying to make the page as accurate as we can, I'm not doing it to piss you off, and I'm not trying to piss you off. Even common misconceptions are still misconceptions. The map shows many markets and they are all in the vicinity of Pike Place Market but each market is listed accurately (i.e. Sanitary Public Market, etc.) Even that map does not list everything as being Pike Place Market. Perhaps there should be a whole new page about all the markets at the Pike Place Market area, I dunno. Secondly, I am not going to bug my neighbor about this. I think he has better things to do. He's just a human with a wife and children as Wayne Coyne would say. Finally, I looked hard at that map and saw no mention of Starbucks so I think we got it right about Starbucks having moved a block away. Final finally, I took your suggestion and registered. So if you see 'ImpulsivePuppy' thats me. I see you have been doing this for a while so I certainly welcome any advice you have to give. I actually have a personal pic of the pig (isn't she called Bessie?) at the market that I took. I would be happy to upload it to replace the incorrect pic that I took down. But I do not really know how to do this. If you would like to help a novice such as myself that would be great, or even point me in the right direction. Ok brother, take it easy. 17:21, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the Welcome

'perciate it! I'll read the 5 pillars of wiki-wisdom soon. Glad i didn't piss ya off. See ya around the seattle pages!  :-) 01:59, 9 July 2006 (UTC) oops, newbie issue there, thought i was logged in. :-p ImpulsivePuppy 02:00, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Please help on Astronomy

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Asian American copyedit vs. cleanup

I'm just curious as to why you prefer the copyedit bug vs. cleanup. I think that some significant editing is needed on the existing copy, plus additions on the rest. Maybe it's no big deal either way. I'm resigned to let a certain user go to town with annoying edits and then see who does what with what results. I'll come back to the page in a few months or so. --ishu 00:46, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

"Certain user:" You said it, not me. And I hesitated to use the expert tag, for fear that certain users might fancy themselves to be the experts. Let's see who shows up to the copyedit/cleanup jamboree. Cheers, --ishu 01:20, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Chief Justice cleanup

You marked the Chief Justice page as needing cleanup. Do you have specific reasons? - AeroIllini (talk) - 23:12, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

You helped choose this week's WP:AID winner

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Davodd 06:41, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Clarification re. Template:Db-reason and WP:PROD

Re. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jolly Roger Restaurant
"Couldn't this have been prod'ed?"

Please expand, (not found so far). What is "prod'ed"? Clues, links appreciated. --GoDot 14:57, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
Thread continues at User talk:GoDot --GoDot 05:23, 24 July 2006 (UTC)


I replied on the relevant talk page. - Jmabel | Talk 06:32, 26 July 2006 (UTC)


I have actually told them officially that I want to make an article of UWBS in Wikipedia. I just never had the time until now. --StevensCourt 09:43, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Nick Lowe article

Yeah, sorry about that, I'm still new to anything more than basic editing on Wikipedia. - Smdo | Talk 21:02, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Seen Seattle_before_the_city ?

Also, GoDot is being intractable at Duwamish (tribe). I am considering giving up... :| --Lukobe 06:51, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Please, please don't give up. You are a really valuable contributor here. If you need a break, take one! But come back!
Thanks Joe, that really means a lot coming from you. But don't worry. I just meant I was considering giving up on anything having to do with GoDot :) --Lukobe 08:13, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
The notes on Seattle_before_the_city are impenetrable. I hope they are work in progress.Fixed it, it was a wiki syntax problem.
I've found GoDot pretty consistently uncooperative and very hard to work with. The main thing I can point at is his incomprehensible edit summaries, but the thing I've found really difficult is harder to pin down: an absolute tin ear. And for someone so picky, he's really sloppy and I find myself cleaning up after him. He will bog down an article in minutiae to the point of obscuring the matters that are likely to be of interest to the reader, and he keeps using non-English vocabulary for things that have perfectly common English names. It's more than fine to give the historic native name of a Native American group once in an article, but when they themselves never use it when writing in English, why on earth should we use it as if it's the common name?
Maybe we need to go the RFC (etc.) route? Or just see if we can get somewhere by centralizing discussion at Talk:Seattle? or even (on the names issue) at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America. The thing is, I've got plenty else to do, and the Seattle articles really aren't my priority. I'm willing to participate, but not to drive it.
I have no problem if you want to walk away from the issue for a while. But if you do want to go ahead with something probably the first step is to prioritize the issues. - Jmabel | Talk 07:07, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Agreed that there is no such thing as "Pike Market", at least not in Seattle.

On one level, the biggest issue is probably that he is writing unreadably dull, hairsplitting articles. The problem is, there is no rule against that. It's a real problem when those are replacing lively, readable articles on the same topics, though. - Jmabel | Talk 07:10, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, it's so weird that he keeps using these Native American words without spelling them correctly. I don't know that many of them, but half the ones I knew had wrong orthography. - Jmabel | Talk 07:15, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I want to know more about the fellow. Anyway, I looked up the RFC process, and apparently it's a good idea to conduct a poll first, so I posted one about how to spell Duwamish. Perhaps that will attract some outside attention, and we can go from there. I don't know really how much time I can devote to this either, but I suspect more than you, since the Seattle articles are my we shall see. Work is really busy this year...
Bringing stuff to Talk:Seattle, Washington hasn't seemed to have produced many results in the past, but your Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America suggestion is ingenious. I may end up going that route. Thanks Joe. --Lukobe 08:13, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Image:Uwhub.gif listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Uwhub.gif, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Punctured Bicycle 04:57, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Death AID nom

Wasn't the AID nomination for Death removed five days too early? You removed it 8/10--thought it was to stay up till 8/15. --Lukobe 21:12, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, it did actually have four days left, I've put it back and given it the extra time. Apologies for the mistake, I had ten or so listed from the bot to clear and didn't check the dates on each one. --Draicone (talk) 08:41, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Your recent remark

Replied on my talk page. - Jmabel | Talk 06:41, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Speedy deletions

"For pages that need deletion, edit the page and add the appropriate speedy deletion template (depending on which of the speedy deletion criteria the page satisfies) to the top." (Wikipedia:Speedy deletions)

Both are redirects. Since this has incorrect naming convention and capitalization, can this be summarily deleted? (What links here has been corrected, nothing links to it)

Duwamish Tribe history, edit, What links here
Duwamish Tribe, edit, What links here

(This has incorrect capitalization, nothing links to it). --GoDot 12:44, 16 August 2006 (UTC) —except this post : ) --12:53, 16 August 2006 (UTC) (ed. --04:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC))

23:27, 15 August 2006 Lukobe (moved Duwamish Tribe history to History of the Duwamish tribe

No need to delete these redirects--they don't harm anyone. --Lukobe 18:56, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
True, but they are cruft. No useful purpose is served by them; their form is not correct. If practical, they are better simply deleted. --GoDot 04:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Somebody might type "Duwamish Tribe" in the search box. I'd say leave 'em...but won't fight to keep 'em either. --Lukobe 05:12, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
It is normal to keep redirects like this. Sometimes we even redirect common misspellings. The idea is that is someone looks for an article under a more or less reasonable title, they will still reach the article. See Wikipedia:Redirection#What do we use redirects for?. Seems pretty clear that these should be kept. - Jmabel | Talk 22:48, 21 August 2006 (UTC)


Looks like Wikipedia:Meetup/Seattle4 will be happening September 9, 2006. - Jmabel | Talk 01:42, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Meetup notes

Wikipedia:Meetup/Seattle4. Edits welcome. - Jmabel | Talk 08:38, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Re: Arisch

Thank you. - Jmabel | Talk 05:12, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Comics Collaboration of the Month

You supported Peanuts, which has been selected as the Comics WikiProject's new Collaboration of the Month. Please help improve this article to featured article standards. Steve block Talk 20:16, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Re: Blocking Alexvincent2

I must have missed that out, thanks for pointing that out. --WinHunter (talk) 01:37, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Blocked user

Re: the blocked user you mentioned at WP:AIV, I've watchlisted the page he mentioned and will help you make sure it stays "clean." Cheers! --Ginkgo100 talk · e@ 02:54, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Your input is requested

Your input would be appreciated at this Request for Comments. Kelly Martin (talk) 19:47, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Spelling of Hawai'i

Why did you change the more phonetically correct spelling on the ILWU article? The locals prefer the version with the apostrophe, and there's a redirect in place. --Orange Mike 22:45, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Seattle-police-shield.gif

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Question from a new bee (har)

There's a vandal about, username Stutch, whose firsts "contributions" appear yesterday. He has contributed a dozen or so times, every time vandalizing an article. His most recent great endeavor is the creation of an article of made-up nonsense about an apparently fictional character. I feel certain Wikipedia has policies and procedures about reporting, etc., this sort of abuse, but a quick look told me it was going to take some time to sort through it all to find out. Any suggestions? Thanks.McTavidge 13:22, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

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Copy-edit tag on Asian American

Hello. You recently tagged the whole Asian American article as in need of a copy-edit. Are you sure that the entire article needs a copy-edit? Since it's such a large article, it would help those of us who patrol the copy-edit backlog if you could specify what exactly you think needs a copy-edit. Also, it looks as if User:Dark Tichondrias is doing a large overhaul of the entire article. Have you discussed your misgivings of the prose with him? Perhaps he may be better equipped to address your concerns than general copy-editors. Many thanks. BuddingJournalist 07:51, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I think it would help if you would chime in on the discussion I started about DT's recent edits. To date, only Hong has. --Ishu 12:17, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Basically I tagged the entire thing <copyedit> because whenever Dark Tichondrias takes it upon himself to rejigger an entire page, he introduces infelicitous wording throughout. I haven't had the time recently to get too much more than that, though, unfortunately. I'll try joining the discussion, Ishu. And Budding, I tagged it because I thought outside eyes are always important... --Lukobe 18:07, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Okie dokie. I'm one of those limited-attention span copy-editors, so I might work on chunks here or there. BuddingJournalist 01:55, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:180px-Western-Union logo.jpg)

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It is now the Beatles

In case you are not watching the page, I have now formalised the policy to reflect the proper way of refering to the band. The announcement is here, and the wording is on the main page. Your help in applying this policy to the articles would be appreciated. LessHeard vanU 15:04, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I haven't the foggiest how Wiki bots are created, but I should think parameters such as Unless after a (period.) or (quotation")... would be quite common. I was hoping that there was amongst those people I notified a bot operator or someone who knew a bot operator. LessHeard vanU 21:24, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia, Consensus, The Beatles and Project Policy

I was going to step away from this, since I was only going by the rules and I didn't want to get into a big dispute (especially with editors who I respect and have enjoyed working with), but recent events have brought me back.

The debate about naming the convention regarding the capitalisation or not of the letter "t" of the in t/The Beatles has been going on for a while. I have endured the snide remarks of a Twit, and have engaged in civil debate with some others who continued to question Project policy regarding the issue. I pointed out the need to establish a reasonable argument for their viewpoint over and above that of some professional knowledge so there could be a debate. When they did provide reasonable grounds for reopening the debate I used the offices of the Beatles Newsletter Issue 9:Issue of the Month to request comment, debate on the matter. There was no response. In the next Newsletter Issue 10:Issue of last Month I commented that there had been no response, and that the Project policy would be altered to use of the lowercase. Again, nobody other than the proponents responded. After a brief while I did as I said I would, and amended the Policy.

Belated reaction

The new Policy is not to the liking of some of the editors involved the the Beatles Project (as the previous one was not to others.) After the policy was implemented reasons and arguments for retaining the previous convention were given. Authorities were cited and some discussion was created. Very recently more than one editor has edited Beatles related articles specifically to reflect the previous policy.

My Comments

My preference is to capitalise the letter t of the in the Beatles.

Wikipedia has very few rules; two of the most important relate to consensus and verifiability.

Wikipedia:WikiProject The Beatles has a specific area for the implementation (following debate and consensus) of Policy. The associate talkpage records the debate and the arguments used in reaching Policy decisions. The Project also maintains the principle of abiding by the rules that have been agreed, and the fundemental Wikipedia ethos of consensus.

My Observations

No recent discussion occurred when the matter of the use of lowercase or uppercase was notified in two Newsletters, other than between myself and the proponents of lowercase at the Policy talkpage. Since Policy implementation discussion has only occurred on the talkpages of concerned editors, or on the talkpages of some of the articles, and not at the Policy talkpage.

More than one editor has unilaterally decided to ignore the new Policy, going so far as to amend articles to reflect the previous convention.

My Conclusion(s)

The Beatles Project is being disrupted by editors who I personally know to be conscientious and dedicated contributors of long and good standing. In that there is now occurring what might be considered vandalism (the knowing altering of articles in a manner that is against Wikipedian and Project rules and policy), likely as a result of their strongly held views, I believe that this matter needs urgent addressing. I am copying this to the Policy talkpage, and to all the editors involved in formulating the new policy and the recent opponents. I suggest that this debate is taken there, and that this matter is decided in a civil manner in accordance with the principles of Wikipedia.

I am deeply saddened that it has come to this. I am depressed that editors (people) whose integrity and civility (not to say sheer fun) I had been proud to be associated with have acted in (what I see as) bad faith and flagrant disregard for the rules and guidelines of both Wikipedia and The Beatles Project. LessHeard vanU 23:59, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi, sorry about the delay. My Wikilife has suddenly got very interesting (as in the old Scottish and/or Chines curse "May you live in interesting times!"). If you go over to the Project page find the most recent Newsletter (or theres a copy on my talkpage if you can't find it) and note the last article in the left hand column. User:Lar has organised an active list for participant who want to receive the Newsletter, make sure you are on it. I seem to remember that you put yourself down on the Participants list, but if you haven't been active on the Project Lar might have not put you down for receiving the Newsletter.
I would also comment that I am rejoining the debate regarding lower/uppercase. I took the role of non partisan chairperson during the recent debate, once it was clear that there was a reasonable avenue of discussion, since I felt that it was the proper thing to do. I will now do my best to return the Policy to the previous incarnation. I will use as good references and arguments that I can muster. I will upbraid anyone (of any persuasion) who will not abide by good standards of civility and good faith. You have been very decent in your conduct in the debate, so I hope you will use what influence you have in keeping heads cool with the lowercase proponents. No doubt we will be seeing a bit of each other over the coming weeks (and months). LessHeard vanU 22:50, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Cascade Neighborhood

I see you are the contributor who added to R.E.I. "Its flagship store is in the Cascade neighborhood of Seattle" ([1]). I mention this because I have never heard of the Cascade neighborhood. See my comments in Talk:Cascade, Seattle, Washington. Are you from Seattle? I believe there may be a neighborhood name I've never heard of, but I do wonder if it is a new marketing concept or an old neighborhood name. The area in question has been getting heavy development dollars lately. Heathhunnicutt 16:19, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Mal Evans

Answer to:

What do you make of this sentence fragment in the Mal Evans article? "The idea was that the whole Beatles entourage would live on the islands..."

I have just started it, so it's a mess at the moment. If you want to change it, then please go for it, because it would be greatly appreciated by us all. ThE bEaTLeS aka andreasegde 20:08, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

That doesn't sound like a sentence fragment from here... or in the article, as I read it today. (It does need some work, though I'm glad the sources are cited.) And doesn't he mean "The Whole Beatles entourage"? (Sorry, couldn't resist. ;-)) Zephyrad 03:02, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Hamilton Stands

I would appreciate your input on the deletion review of my Hamilton Stands article; there is a notion that the company "isn't notable", despite their originating the folding music stand, and the fact that Bob Dylan and the Monkees both used their products. (I have asked more than once if the person who deleted the article is a musician, and have gotten no reply.) Also, any published article you know of about the company would be welcome input. – I know it isn't much, but at least it isn't the damned T vs. t thing again... ;-) Zephyrad 18:28, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. All the same, I would appreciate your weighing in on the matter, on the review page. I have asked repeatedly if any of the persons (three now) who have supported the deletion are musicians, and what would be "good enough" media coverage to establish notability in their eyes, and have gotten no answer. I suspect some bias/ignorance here. (I have noticed a tendency in the responses toward imperfect grammar and spelling also... ah me.) Zephyrad 21:16, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks again for your input on the article. I visited our local Sam Ash and Guitar Center, and had their managers scratching their heads (if not actually laughing their asses off) at the idea that the company "wasn't notable"... even if neither of them had seen a recent press article about it. They certainly stock these "non-notable" products. *sigh* Onward. Zephyrad 07:42, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Just a reminder

Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button Button sig2.png located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! I noticed you left a couple comments unsigned on user talk pages recently. This leaves the date/time stamp off also so it is difficult to tell when they were last warned of vandalism. - Dan D. Ric 07:04, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

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  • Regarding your Lake City comments, some of these small businesses ARE notable. Toyoda Restaurant has some very good reviews. Sang Yea is a very good dentist (but that's just my opinion). That ophthalmic plastic surgeon is one of the few in the whole Pacific Northwest. The dance studio is used by competitive dancers for practice. Just because their names are not as famous as Wal Mart doesn't mean they aren't notable. Besides, if one is too harsh, then why even have a Lake City article as Lake City is nowhere as big as Seattle or New York, just a neighborhood and former independent town that has some pluses and minuses.

As a compromise, I left out some clickable links so it doesn't look like spam. I also added some more text about public art in Lake City and some other description.Dereks1x 16:25, 23 March 2007 (UTC)