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RE: Bagrat

Hello, Peridon. You have new messages at I am a violinist's talk page.
Message added 13:23, 1 October 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

gtabroker

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Gtabroker

I've rewritten it all... and removed all bias sounding or self promoting material. whats left is neutral toned facts. how can i send it to you for your review prior to creating a new page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gtabroker (talk • contribs) 14:27, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

OK - but there's a bit more to it. Does it comply with WP:CORP for notability, with reliable independent sources WP:RS to prove it? If you're sure it passes those and WP:SPAM, post it at User:Gtabroker/DRAFT FOR CHECKING and let me know. PS I would advise going to WP:CHU to change your user name. I'm trying to work out why you haven't been blocked yet for having a name that appears to represent an organisation. Must have been some reason why I didn't. Scroll down to Simple and tell them you need a change for that reason. Peridon (talk) 16:51, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

2 blocked editors

Commented on my talk page. --Anthony Bradbury"talk" 21:20, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 02 October 2013

Redirects

Maybe I don't understand something... You see, the articles can be turned into a stub and I got plenty of source to prove it, but I don't want to do it over someone else's work (I just feel that I wont get recognized by WikiProject Ballet for just doing an overdo). For example: Yekaterina Shipulina wasn't a redirect so I clearly wrote the article without that hassle. Its strange that Wikipedia allows so many redirects and when people wanted to remove it they revert it. And another thing, I am shocked that instead of helping me with improving those articles: Gary Alan Nelson and Steve Nicklas the guys propose deletions, while its perfectly fine to revert a redirect removal, care to explain?!--Mishae (talk) 18:51, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps I don't... I can't see any objection in turning a redir into an article so long as it fits the standards, blah, blah. Or in creating an article in your user space and then getting the redir deleted to make way for a move. What you can't do is use an invalid criterion to get deletion. That's why Malik and I reverted your tags. If you get your stuff all ready in user space, then there's the options of either c/p it into the redir, or of requesting a move over it. I don't know the people at the Project, but I can't see them objecting to this, either way they gain an article. Redirects have two main functions. One is to cope with typos and alternative spellings and different names. The other is as a sort of place holder for something that's not got its own article, either because it's not notable by itself, or because no-one's written it yet - but it might be searched for. I've no idea on the other two things - I'm just going offline and will try to look at them tomorrow. Peridon (talk) 19:11, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
BTW you really need something more than the ballet's profile - that will pass BLP but for safety get something independent. Peridon (talk) 19:13, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for an advise, I will do it in my mainspace then...--Mishae (talk) 19:19, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Delete Page: HeavenGuild's Gaming

Why you Delete my article HeavenGuild's Gaming, Kids make this page, Do you know bi*ch? If you don't restore my page I will delete your page OK? -Please reply to me within 24 hours- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikisafety (talk • contribs) 07:58, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Talk:La Prensa Hispana

I disagree with the deletion of Talk:La Prensa Hispana as a G8. It was clearly a misguided attempt to create an article page, not a talk page. However, I tried unsuccessfully to get the good people at AfC to come up with a process, such as move to an AfC page. It wasn't much of an article, so I don't want to sweat it, but I think it is bad process to delete as a G8.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 15:55, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

I very nearly added G11 to the reasons - it looked rather promotional to me. You're welcome to undelete it if you wish. Can't it be moved to AfC? Peridon (talk) 16:00, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
I only glanced at the content, and didn't see anything worth saving, but if I were an IP, and tried to contribute to Wikipedia, then found my submission blown away with no explanation, it wouldn't be a good start. As for copy to AfC space, is it as simple as moving?--SPhilbrick(Talk) 16:27, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
I posted a plea at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation#How_to_handle_an_IP_attempt_to_create_an_article_in_Talk_space--SPhilbrick(Talk) 16:41, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
I've appended myself to your plea - I was just trying to find out how it was done myself. Peridon (talk) 16:54, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
Good. I'm rather miffed about the process fail, and when I am miffed I am told that sometimes it shows. If it shows, please be aware that I am miffed at the process, not you.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 19:26, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
I rather get the impression that the person answering wasn't listening to what was being asked. There might be a chance of a sensible answer from Anne Delong. She's always struck me as being more practical than some of them at AfC. Peridon (talk) 20:07, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Help with notability

Hey there! :-) You said to ask - I am reading this page about a writer and I would think 2 books through big houses would be notable but I'm not certain since the WP:AUTHOR seems quite tough. And as I've previously established I'm not good at notability recognition! What's your take? Claire Cameron (writer)--Antiqueight confer 20:36, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Only one book so far - one's not out yet. But I'd say notable. Regular publisher, an award, second book signed up for worldwide distribution - looks fairly good. What I don't like are the refs, and I've tagged it for that. Some are site links, not specific citation links, too many look non-independent. AUTHOR is almost impossible for lower levels than J.K. Rowling, Terry Pratchett or Charles Dickens. Something like this will do, to my mind. A first book published by the Donkey Flats Press and a second being written wouldn't. Not without about two pages of refs and a check that it wasn't an elaborate hoax even then. With all these guidelines, you have to be reasonable. If a pro footballer gets an article for one game as a pro in a pro league, then a writer like our topic should get one too. (With books, the level has to be assessed by us. A pro footballer in a pro league is assumed to be at a higher level than Thursday Evening League in Much Twittering, where they have difficulty raising the tea money let alone paying anyone... I hope that's helped. If not, Cindamuse or MelanieN might explain better. They're not admins (yet...) but they've got a lot of clue and content experience. And they like helping people. Peridon (talk) 20:59, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
You're a star - that does help. Thank you.--Antiqueight confer 21:10, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 09 October 2013

More advice

You reverted my edit, saying that you were "open for more advice". I'm not sure if you're aware, but the {{helpme}} template causes a link to the page it's on to cycle through #wikipedia-en-helpers connect every twenty minutes. {{helpme-helped}} is one of a few templates that removes the page from this cycle.

Instead of giving more advice to the person you helped out, I'll give you some advice: You seemed very clear to me, and ultimately, the person you helped is the best judge of whether or not they need more help. That's the main reason I'm partially reverting you. --I dream of horses If you reply here, please leave me a {{Talkback}} message on my talk page. @ 19:00, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Fair enough. You've got more confidence in my advice than I had... Peridon (talk) 19:11, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks

I had a feeling German WP had different rules. Thanks for leaving the helpme up for further view to be given, too. Fiddle Faddle 15:33, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

I usually like to get another opinion - I'm not the voice of God, merely a passing angel. And other angels may know more than me... <8-) Peridon (talk) 15:40, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
Flap those wings, Angel Boy! (Or Angel Girl, I haven't checked!!) Fiddle Faddle 15:43, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
Read My User Page... Peridon (talk) 15:45, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Zipwhip

Hi Peridon.

I'm writing you because of the notice on the page I created called Zipwhip. Can you please remove the notice? Thank you. Thanks for the notice above, too, on your 'talk' page Tolberg jeremy (talk) 19:38, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

A cup of tea for you!

Enjoy Tolberg jeremy (talk) 19:40, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Shabba

Hello, Peridon. Another administrator, Alex Shih, deleted Shabba; could you please restore it because Alex Shih has not responded to my messages despite having edited since I put it there; I plan on putting a disambiguation page at that title, and I'd like to see what was there before I do so? Thank you.--Launchballer 10:09, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

It's variously been a redirect to Shabba Ranks and rubbish. It was deleted to make way for an uncontroversial move of something, which seems not to have gone ahead. Just recreate it. Nothing worth restoring. (The rubbish isn't even worth looking at. Sometimes you find something funny, but not here. It was back in 2005 anyway.) Peridon (talk) 10:23, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Peridon. You have new messages at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation.
Message added 15:41, 15 October 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Pol430 talk to me 15:41, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Yes, but...

I agree with this, but see User talk:Renatofrart#October 2013. Cheers - DVdm (talk) 21:35, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Commented there. Peridon (talk) 16:25, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Delete Page: Touchtalent

I dont see why Touchtalent should not have a wikipedia page. Its the most active community for artists in South East Asia and deserves a wiki page. I guess it was not written in the right manner. Give me few days I'll write it in an appropriate way with proper links to media articles. I'm recreating the page. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amitbisai (talk • contribs) 17:50, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

I've moved your post down to where it should be. Also, please sign talk page posts with four ~ things to put your sig and the datestamp on. So long as notability is shown WP:WEB and referenced in reliable independent sources WP:RS, there's no problem. I advise doing it at User:Amitbisai/DRAFT to start with. This stops the patrollers tagging it for lack of notability before you've finished. (They can tag there for advertising, though...) Then, when you think it's ready, ask someone like MelanieN or Cindamuse for an opinion. Peridon (talk) 18:04, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I am new. Learning fast and doing things. thanks for help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amitbisai (talk • contribs) 19:03, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 16 October 2013

Unblock request

The conversation you were having here seems to have stalled. I'm hesitant to unblock given the replies so far, but would hate for this editor to remain blocked if they can demonstrate an understanding of the COI guidelines. Your thoughts?--Jezebel'sPonyobons mots 21:58, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

My thought is that we aren't getting anywhere. Unfortunately. I think he now understands not to link his company, but is there anything else to link? I've little objection to people writing about their own fields so long as they keep to the rules. Perhaps if you pop in and comment favourably about 'unblocking if...' it might stir things up a bit. Peridon (talk) 09:43, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Re: Order of the Eagle Eye

Why did you delete this article? I am wondering because I found it to be interesting.18:45, 18 October 2013 (UTC)~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.53.46.141 (talk) 18:42, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

As I recall, because there was no credible indication of significance. I don't even remember finding any evidence of the order's existence. If you can produce some evidence in reliable independent sources that it exists, and is notable, I'll consider restoring the article. Peridon (talk) 18:50, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

It is a secret society... Sherwood Brown is a member of the society. It can be seen on his page.

Thanks159.53.46.141 (talk) 17:44, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

That is unreferenced. And fairly recently added. Not a reliable independent source.. Peridon (talk) 18:34, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Just let the page exist, please. You're being unreasonable. You didn't/don't go to the school, so you wouldn't know of existance. 159.53.174.144 (talk) 21:27, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

If you can't prove the existence of this society in reliable independent sources, AND show that it is notable, then it doesn't get an article. Simples. That's our rules.No references, nothing more to be said. Peridon (talk) 10:14, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Rollback permission - if you are around

If you can - would you take a look and if possible approve me for this? I'd like to try Huggle and can't with out this permission...I requested yesterday but was looking for an online admin who might action it speedier.-- 🍺 Antiqueight confer 19:37, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

I can't see a reason not to. You do know that it's only for use in cases of definite vandalism, and not content dispute? I wouldn't know anything about Huggle - I only got Twinkle after I'd become an admin! I had rollback, and I think I used it twice. Still don't use it. Peridon (talk) 20:12, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
Done. Peridon (talk) 20:12, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Thank you - you're a star. And yes- I don't go into content dispute using tools (or even much at all)..I'm only interested in it for vandalism. I'm trying out the various tools to see which ones I will work best with. We'll see how Huggle works once I can try it out. I'll avoid official rollbacks if possible.-- 🍺 Antiqueight confer 20:17, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

I've always found I could do it just as quickly by hand, and leave an edit summary too. There may be some way of doing that, but if there is, I rejected it. I stick to Twinkle to save remembering all the template codes. I'm not a vandal hunter (I hunt spam instead...), but I do believe in stamping on it when I find it. Peridon (talk) 20:26, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Not sure yet how I feel about huggle - can't seem to turn the sound off so have the volume down! Trying out the various personalities, vandal bopper v deletionist.. ps left reply over at mine too..-- 🍺 Antiqueight confer 20:25, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

When is a gurl not a girl

Hi, you sent me a message that I should refer to fishface gurl as "she". I happen to know that fishface gurl is a "he" and the name "becky" he puts as his given name is one of his deceptive aliases. That's why I referred to him as "he". There is lots of deception on here, and there's too much to keep track of. Talkingfacts (talk) 15:32, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Fair enough (or should that be Fairy Nuff?) (Old UK pantomime joke...). I do know that Amalthea is apparently a he, despite the original being a nymph or a nanny goat belonging to a nymph. Confusing. People get offended if we use 'it' though. Peridon (talk) 15:41, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Pls dont delete Hotel The Grand Dragon Ladakh

I am not here to promote any company, product or any specific brand i am based in ladakh and i want to contribute to my region ladakh while creating or editing context of ladakh and its special attractions and hence Hotel The Grand Dragon ladakh is one of finest example of hospitality which our regions offer and it should be on Wikipedia,as since more then 5 years it is serving finestly all the dignitaries all over the globe.. as you can see my previous contribution within our region ladakh. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jahangir Niyaz (talk • contribs) 18:23, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

When you post on a talk page, please sign your post by typing four ~ things. That will tell us who posted and when. Please read my post on your talkpage carefully. It tells you exactly why I deleted the article. The hotel may be all you say here, but unless it passes our notability policy WP:GNG with reliable independent sources WP:RS, it won't get an article. And copies of the hotel website will be deleted very quickly. he wording is too promotional for us, and there are legal reasons why it can't be used. Peridon (talk) 19:30, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Check something for me?

Did the editor arrange enough words for the article not to be copyvio of the main reference on the page: Sarah Mulroy and Reference site. The editor deleted the tag after moving a few words around. I'm also not certain of notability as I have pointed out before but I was sure of copyvio initially!! Thanks -- 🍺 Antiqueight confer 00:10, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

IMO no. I've left them a message and moved it into their userspace. They were making an effort, so I've not deleted. It is too close a paraphrase for my liking, and not sufficiently referenced to be a free article yet. I've put a message at the top of it saying it's a draft under construction, so hopefully it'll be left alone by the patrollers. And hopefully Kylirene is reading her talk page. Words of help can be useful under circumstances like this, like gently explaining notability and RS. Peridon (talk) 10:27, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
I've left a note to compliment yours as well.-- 🍺 Antiqueight confer 10:55, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Benjamin Sanvee

Interesting, now that you've undeleted the page, the history includes all the revisions from when it was previously written in 2010 (at that time, evidently by the article's subject himself). Is that supposed to happen? —Largo Plazo (talk) 20:25, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

No. I wondered why I couldn't get them in the list of previous versions - I kept getting a message that there was no edit history. I've not known it happen before. Might have been lucky... No idea how to fix it. I restored on realising than an OTRS had been done for the content, but I can't really see notability there. Probably best at AfD - feel free. I'm going to bed. Peridon (talk) 20:32, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Peridon. You have new messages at Roscelese's talk page.
Message added 18:10, 23 October 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

–Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 18:10, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

How much blood on my hands?

I noticed your post at User talk:Antiqueight which suggested that you knew how many pages you had deleted. How can I find out my total? And can it me done for page blocks too? Thanks for any help you can give to a long-standing but ignorant mop user. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 14:46, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) If you put {{adminstats}} on a user subpage somewhere, with your username as a parameter, a bot will update it every day or so; and there is a huge comparative table at WP:ADMINSTATS. JohnCD (talk) 17:15, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
It comes in with the admin dashboard. Have a look at User:Peridon/links - you can copy the admin dash link from the edit window and get the full package. I keep some useful (for me, anyway...) links at the bottom too. Peridon (talk) 21:31, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
OK, thanks to both Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:01, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Katangini

I came across this article - I think it's genuine but I can't get the creator to put up any references and the only references I can find are to what he says are another town (see the talk page at his page or the article) - at least I can't find any sources online that I can recognise. I'd like someone else to try get him to put up sources other than his word..-- 🍺 Antiqueight confer 22:59, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

I've removed the author's picture as being irrelevant. In actual fact, it is probably highly relevant - to him. I'd tag it refimprove and whatever the one is for references that aren't relevant. Unless it can be shown to be a hoax, it can't be speedied as places are inherently notable. Keep a watch - that pic might stir him up. Call me in if needed. If you can find absolutely nothing to show the place exists, it's an AfD case. Peridon (talk) 15:17, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Will do - thanks :-)-- 🍺 Antiqueight confer 16:01, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Pah861

Wow ... I'd have to look at the original UAA report to understand what I was thinking ... probably an acronym for something that set someone off. For now, I don't see why we can't unblock. Daniel Case (talk) 20:34, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Done. Peridon (talk) 20:45, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Hi Peridon

Hello, Peridon/Archives/2013. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

--Shirt58 (talk) 11:13, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, it's fine now.--Shirt58 (talk) 13:10, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 23 October 2013

Copy/paste move help

Hi Peridon. I was wondering if you could help me out at Mahidpur/Mehidpur City. User:Grv10india has copied and pasted the text from Mahidpur to several new pages. Most of them have been made redirects, but Grv wants the article to be at Mehidpur City, rather than Mahidpur. For the record, I'm opposed to the move as I can't locate and sources that use the e over the a. Would you be able to take a look and help sort this out? Ishdarian 16:28, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Hi Peridon, I am Changing and Upgrading the Information on page Mehidpur_City as there is two mehidpur, 1. Mehidpur City 2. Mehidpur Road So that would be better if we specify that which one is this. and I have updated it with external links too.

The problem is that the user:Ishdarian Don't let it be Mehidpur City and chages to mehidpur as soon as I change to Mehidpur City.

and he is not even want to compromise some things that are extreamly good for this page. like link to google map and extinguish to the Mehidpur road. So kindly take an action. Grv User:Grv10india —Preceding undated comment added 16:53, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Right. For a start, I've removed the redirect at Mahidpur. An article that's been up under its title since 2005 should not be changed in title without consensus being reached for the change. Anyway, if there is to be a change, it must NOT be made by copy and paste. This only denies the correct attribution of eight years of editing. The correct procedure would be to move the article, but only after consensus has been reached. Looking at the other language links, of those in Roman script only Catalan has Mehidpur as the title. The other new title articles or redirects should be converted to redirects to the article at Mahidpur until there is consensus for a move. The idea is that people can find an article - with redirects they can. I would advise no more changing from the current title, as this will be regarded as edit warring. Peridon (talk) 18:07, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
Please note that I am not giving an opinion on what is or isn't the correct title. I haven't the slightest idea, and it's not my place as an admin to give a ruling on that. That is a matter for informed discussion. Peridon (talk) 18:18, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
This is a WP:COMMONNAME issue. I'd suggest using whatever name is used by the official website for the place. Such websites are usually hosted on the nic.in domains (National Informatics Centre, Government of India). However, if it turns out that would require a change of title then you're going to have to initiate a Requested move discussion because these Indian geographic naming issues often give rise to complex situations due to inconsistencies, the plethora of available languages etc. - Sitush (talk) 18:47, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Question

Hi, Peridon! I had a word with the Treasury Peer person, although they probably aren't going to like what I had to say. Sorry for the delay in responding, I've been crazy-busy in Real Life.

Meanwhile I have a question for you: Could you take a look at Talk:Rachel Maddow's recent history? Last week an anonymous user posted a filthy diatribe against Maddow on that page. Somehow the bots missed it, and it stayed for two days before I noticed it. I deleted it and warned the user, but I wondered if maybe the comment and my reverting of it should be also deleted from the history? I'm not familiar with the policy for blanking edits from the history, but it occurred to me this could be such a case, because of BLP issues as well as community standards. Thanks for checking. --MelanieN (talk) 00:57, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for that at TP - that's what I thought. It's a group of probably quite influential people but which hasn't got the coverage yet. I've revdelled the stuff. Unfortunately, a diff of yours and one of TrackInfo's have been covered up too. The text is still visible, but the diffs aren't - because they contained the offending stuff. I'll look into a way of getting round that, but I don't think it's desperately urgent. No-one will be wanting to quote them at ANI or similar. It's a lot easier when the 'orrible stuff is at the top of the list without any intervening edits. I don't use it very much - I just throw whole articles away... 8-) Peridon (talk) 10:21, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
Thank you! And sorry to make you deal with that kind of gutter stuff. I wonder why the bots didn't catch it? --MelanieN (talk) 17:19, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
I've seen worse... I don't think it needs oversight, but feel free to mail them if you disagree. I don't think there's a bot programmed for that sort of stuff. There's the UAA one that spots rudeness in the most innocent usernames (some of which a few of us have wondered about, not us being little innocents but not having heard them before...). It is quite possible to be totally vile without using a 'rude' word. Peridon (talk) 19:36, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Curiosity...

...drives me to ask, Were you ever given an answer to the question you asked a couple of times in this discussion about the location of "shop" or "merchandise" links? I, like you, have not seen such links in the sidebar (to be honest, i tend not to use or much look at it; i know what i want and where i'm going), so i was puzzled by the reference to buying stuff. The discussion seems to have petered out without a response to your query, so just wondering if anyone answered you? Cheers, LindsayHello 04:00, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Glad it's not just me that's nosy... 8<) No. I'd forgotten about it, and it looks like the idea for the sidebar has died. I might post on AN - or you might if you feel like. I'd still like to know what this mysterious thing is. Might be something nice in there. Like an 'I'm a Wikipedian' tee shirt. Or 'I'm an admin - don't mess with me...'. I like tee shirts. I got seriously told off by a small cousin for getting one that said 'So many cats, So few recipes'. I've got 'I'm a Chip and Ale Man' too. (Think about it...) Actually, I'm thinking of pinching Mean as Custard's name for a tee shirt. They haven't objected. Also, 'The flute of the avenger is preferable to the tears of the fox'. Found that one day on a piece of paper - in my writing. Don't know if I invented it for some reason or copied it from somewhere. Sounds very deep and meaningful, but is probably just fake zen. Peridon (talk) 20:34, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
So many cats, So few recipes. LOL! (talk page stalker) --MelanieN (talk) 23:43, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
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