Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Language
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This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Language. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.
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Language
[edit]- Regular sound correspondences between Hungarian and other Uralic languages (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The topics "Regular sound correspondences between Uralic languages" and "Historical phonology of Hungarian" are both notable. However, this topic does not have notability independent of those topics; Hungarian does not play such a critical role in Uralic reconstruction as to justify the existence of this page. Stockhausenfan (talk) 21:36, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Language-related deletion discussions. Stockhausenfan (talk) 22:07, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Valid points. Suggest rename and refactor, perhaps indeed as Historical phonology of Hungarian. --Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 09:11, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. User:Tropylium, we don't rename as part of an AFD closure. Are you voting Keep? If this article is Kept, you can discuss retitling the article and changing its focus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 21:44, 25 October 2024 (UTC)- Yes I suppose that is strictly speaking keep w/ different discussion required afterwards. --Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 00:20, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
- List of people who use their middle names as their first names (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Lots of people in all walks of life go by their some form of their middle name. This is not an uncommon or poorly understood phenomenon. The sources by and large may verify that the listed person uses their middle name, but that isn't the focus of the coverage, because it simply is not really unusual or noteworthy to do so. There's simply no depth to this, it feels more like random trivia than something one would find in an encyclopedia. Just Step Sideways from this world ..... today 22:15, 13 October 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people and Language. Just Step Sideways from this world ..... today 22:15, 13 October 2024 (UTC)
- For the record, this is the second AfD for this article. The first was when the article had a different title, and can be found at WP:Articles for deletion/Celebrities who use their middle names as their first names. TompaDompa (talk) 03:25, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- I guess I got a case of banner blindness because I legit did not see that. Just Step Sideways from this world ..... today 17:49, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- Restore former title of article and keep, as the move was never discussed and made the article's title vague and unclear so that one editor could expand the article's purview without consensus. One editor should not be changing the article to their own specifications so that it becomes another vague list article, as Isaidnoway did here. The other suggestion is to restrict it solely to actors and title as such. Nate • (chatter) 18:26, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
The other suggestion is to restrict it solely to actors and title as such.
May I ask: why? Why does restricting it in this manner make the list more encyclopedic? Also, it seems like what you are proposing is already an article at List of stage names. Just Step Sideways from this world ..... today 19:18, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per nom, a mind bogglingly banal list of trivia that doesn't appear to notable enough for its own article, let alone a list of examples. What little encyclopedic information there is to say at the topic can be done at Middle name § Middle name as primary forename, and more or less already is. 35.139.154.158 (talk) 18:28, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- This was an (edit conflict) with the above restore/keep, which now that I've read, doesn't sway me in the slightest. Restricting to "celebrities" is probably even more vague, as what constitutes a "celebrity" is generally subjective. It also doesn't make the topic any more notable. 35.139.154.158 (talk) 18:32, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- Keep This passes WP:NLIST because of coverage by the Independent, Deseret News, and (if the article is to be belived) this[1] book. Some other sources in the references of the article may also be useful in demonstrating notability. McYeee (talk) 21:16, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Voluntary devil's advocate, but based on the sources shared a similar argument could be made for List of films with interesting titles: The Independent, Deseret News. Would an article built on these two sources pass WP:NLIST in your opinion? Shazback (talk) 20:33, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Assuming for sake of argument that those are the only two relevant sources that exist, such an article should be deleted. I don't think it would would pass WP:GNG because those sources don't actually establish that those films have interesting titles, just that those two publications consider them notable and there are no sources showing notability for List of films with titles considered interesting by news sources. You might be able to convince me that these sources actually do establish that the list is notable, despite not reliably establishing a single entry, but in that case, the list should be deleted for being completely unverifiable. McYeee (talk) 22:11, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Voluntary devil's advocate, but based on the sources shared a similar argument could be made for List of films with interesting titles: The Independent, Deseret News. Would an article built on these two sources pass WP:NLIST in your opinion? Shazback (talk) 20:33, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Keep per McYeee's sources. I also found [1] as well as [2] to help out. It's worth noting that this and List of stage names are similar, perhaps I'll add this article in the "See also" section. Conyo14 (talk) 22:55, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. None of the above sources are good for establishing notability. You can find low-quality listicle churn on practically anything. Finding a couple listicles about something vaguely similar does not grant a license to just compile our own goddamn list of every goddamn person who goes by a goddamn middle name. This is bottom-of-the-barrel garbage, even by Wikipedia list standards, which is already pretty abyssal. Just once, can't common sense (and WP:NOT) win out here? Just once, can we not parade about a couple stupid listicles and go "omg NLIST NLIST, haha keep"? 35.139.154.158 (talk) 00:47, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- This is a very poor faith comment that I suggest you either scrap or rewrite. Conyo14 (talk) 04:51, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- You might not like my tone, which belies my frustration, but my faith is pure. 35.139.154.158 (talk) 08:08, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- This is a very poor faith comment that I suggest you either scrap or rewrite. Conyo14 (talk) 04:51, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. Article should be reframed and possibly renamed if kept. Seems like the whole discussion is taking for granted that the use of one's middle name only seems novel if you are American or British *and* believe that using one's first given name is "conventional" or "preferred". The introductory section seems forced and a bit "off". Cielquiparle (talk) 22:59, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Well, my nomination is based on the idea that this isn't novel or uncommon at all. I imagine pretty much everyone knows at least one person who goes by a name other than their full given first name. This is about as encyclopedic and useful as a list of people who are named Robert or Theodore or Andrew but go by Bob, Ted, or Andy. Just Step Sideways from this world ..... today 23:05, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- If those topics are as notable as this one, I would expect there to exist reliable sources listing such people. Are you aware of any? If notability isn't your reason for claiming the list is not encyclopedic, what is? I think that, per WP:USEFUL, uselessness is an argument to avoid in AfDs. McYeee (talk) 02:32, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- I looked at the sources that you linked above, they are not WP:SIGCOV, they are basically "this is a thing that exists, here is a list of people who have done it" in other words, no better than the article itself. Just Step Sideways from this world ..... today 17:44, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- What would be an example of WP:SIGCOV for the purposes of WP:NLIST? How should I square your view here with WP:NLIST which says that "[o]ne accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources"? McYeee (talk) 22:16, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- It's the discussion part that is lacking. Those articles are a paragraph or two of reporting, then are just lists like out article. There's no depth to the coverage. Just Step Sideways from this world ..... today 18:32, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- What would be an example of WP:SIGCOV for the purposes of WP:NLIST? How should I square your view here with WP:NLIST which says that "[o]ne accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources"? McYeee (talk) 22:16, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- I looked at the sources that you linked above, they are not WP:SIGCOV, they are basically "this is a thing that exists, here is a list of people who have done it" in other words, no better than the article itself. Just Step Sideways from this world ..... today 17:44, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- If those topics are as notable as this one, I would expect there to exist reliable sources listing such people. Are you aware of any? If notability isn't your reason for claiming the list is not encyclopedic, what is? I think that, per WP:USEFUL, uselessness is an argument to avoid in AfDs. McYeee (talk) 02:32, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Well, my nomination is based on the idea that this isn't novel or uncommon at all. I imagine pretty much everyone knows at least one person who goes by a name other than their full given first name. This is about as encyclopedic and useful as a list of people who are named Robert or Theodore or Andrew but go by Bob, Ted, or Andy. Just Step Sideways from this world ..... today 23:05, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
References
- ^ Symons, Mitchell (2007). "Famous People Who Use Their Middle Names As First Names". This, That And The Other. Transworld Publishers. p. 183. ISBN 978-0-552-15647-9. Archived from the original on June 22, 2024. Retrieved June 22, 2024.
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:20, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Leaning keep, as this does appear to be an anthroponymically significant phenomenon. BD2412 T 00:54, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Weak Delete, WP:SALAT suggests
A list should be defined so that a reasonable number of readers seek it out.
By that criteria, I am not certain anyone would seek such a list out. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 01:37, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 09:19, 28 October 2024 (UTC)