Wikipedia:Move review/Log/2015 February
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The following is an archived debate of the move review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
The RM to Islamist terrorism (discussion here) was rejected by Red Slash despite predominant (4:3) support of experienced editors and despite the move going to what was argued to be a more specific and accurate title for the topic. Closing argument finished by saying that "I just needed some sources to make me understand that this title is factually wrong" but, even if this were an issue, I do not think that this would discount the positive arguments that were made that the move was to a more specific and accurate title. In accordance to Wikipedia:Move review#Instructions, I have contacted the closing editor here where, as in the move request, I explained that "if there were a commonly used term available such as Christianist or Jewishist I would advocate the use of these terms as well as in connection to related subjects of terrorism. ..." I do not think that we can persist in the use of non-specific titles such as Islamic terrorism just because editors do not have available a more accurate title than Christian terrorism. In response to my direct appeal Red Slash said: " I'm a Christian and I wholly disavow any connection to what's placed in that article--so if we should move the one article to avoid associations with standard Islam, why would we keep the title for the other article where it's associated with everyday Christianity?" This move, if any suitable can be found, I would support. However, the lack of a suitable alternative title here is, I think, scant reason for rejecting a move. The request close a perceived need was noted regarding a need for reliable sources relating to title usage. As noted towards the end of my discussion with the closer, "I did a simple search on terrorism isn't Islamic and the first result from Time magazine is titled Obama Is Right Not to Talk About ‘Islamic’ Terrorism." I also expressed that, if there were a perceived need for references to be quoted, then this might best be presented as a comment in the normal way and presented the following: "::On the issue of sources, specialists in issues of extremist terrorism such as Quilliam (think tank) make predominant reference to "Islamist terrorism". site:http://www.quilliamfoundation.org/ "Islamist terrorism" gets "33 results" while site:http://www.quilliamfoundation.org/ "Islamic terrorism" gets "1 result" That one result was in a quote from musician Salman Ahmad of Pakistani rock band Junoon who was quoted as saying, "I also think there’s a failure in the media to research about the conflict, instead opting to present it as general Islamic terrorism."" I honestly don't think that it would be hard to find further references if such were required. I also find the titles Christian terrorism, Jewish terrorism etc. to be objectionable and, should suitable destination titles be found, then I think that similar moves should also be made. A more accurate title is available for this article which should be moved.GregKaye 10:50, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the move review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the move review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
Number 57 was unaware of of significant additional information not discussed in the RM: The pages that the requested moves were dealing with received a lot of opposition citing common name, but I have found additional N gram statistics that disprove the opposition. They need to be considered. Also, the WikiProject for Star Wars was not properly informed as a whole, so I assume the participants in the discussion may have been especially conservative over the original trilogy. The possible bias in the opposition may be overturned. If there is bias, but I believe the statistics I have found are solid enough for discussion: In the ngram for the Empire Stikes back, usage of "The Empire Strikes Back" has been in heavy decline from 1999 to 2008. The decline is apparent in the corpus English shown here, in the corpus English Fiction shown here, in the corpus American English shown here, in the corpus British English shown here, in the corpus American English (2009) shown here, in the corpus British English (2009) shown here, in the corpus English (2009) shown here, in the corpus English Fiction (2009) shown here, and in the corpus English One Million (2009) shown here. Assuming that by searching "Star Wars Episode V" (which is the max limit of words you can search on ngrams) it has an obvious relation to the full title Star Wars Episode V The Empire Strikes Back, the following results are revealed. The term has based in great increase over the years in the corpus American English shown here, and in the corpus English shown here. All other corpuses do not have any results for them. Based on its decline in all corpuses of English, the Empire Strikes Back alone is NOT the common name. I performed the same search for Star Wars Episode VI Return of the Jedi. The results show an increase in Star Wars Episode VI in the corpuses American English shown here, the corpus English shown here, again no results for other corpuses. Return of the Jedi as the title is shown in decline in all corpuses (except English Fiction) just as the Empire Strike Back was. English One Million (2009) shows decline here. English Fiction (2009) shows decline here. English (2009) shows decline here. British English (2009) shows a decline here. American English (2009) shows a decline here. English Fiction shows a decline but a slight return to increase shown here. In the English corpus, it shows a decline here. British English shows decline here. American English shows decline here. Again, based on these results, Return of the Jedi alone is not the common name. I did not look for decline in "Star Wars" as term because it would be impossible to know for sure if it included only the 1977 film in the results. But I did find that the term Star Wars Episode IV is increasing in the corpuses English (shown here) and American English. (Shown here). The RM should be reopened and relisted. I did not discuss the close with the closing administrator because I feel the discussion has been over with just a little too long but still soon enough for a move review. I realize I should have done this earlier, but I see no reason this move review can't be considered.Eric - Contact me please. I prefer conversations started on my talk page if the subject is changed 21:01, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the move review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the move review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
This move review only recieved the input of six editors, three of whom were canvassed. You can see this on the talk page. Supossedly this RM was discussed by 23 people in total but the RM recived only three editor's input. The reasoning for the RM's decision to move was that there was editor consensus but this is totally false as, a subsequent discussion showed that there is no such consensus. You can see here[1] that editors support a merger so how can it be possible that there was consensus that it should be moved originally. Also the discussion before this here[2] was closed by an involved editor who himself/herself was against the merger. Due to the canvassing and the input of only three editors, this RM should be rendered null and void and the subsequent propse merger closure by an involved admin should be discounted. A new RM should be started so that we can build consensus on what is the most appropriate direction in which to take the page.Mbcap (talk) 15:19, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Three different discussions (one of them with full consensus), weeks of talks and a 'straw poll', still not enough. Use whatever argument you want but not the "there was not enough discussion". Why such crusade to revert the article's name? I really don't get it. I've never seen anything like that. Coltsfan (talk) 12:58, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the move review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the move review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
I manually, boldly, merged a talk page that wasn't moved to the new article's name, where there was discussion at both pages. I think what I've done is OK, but I wanted to report it somewhere to ensure it is reviewed. :-) Mark Hurd (talk) 09:22, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the move review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the move review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
Closed prematurely, the consensus to move was nearly reached; I tried reasoning with the closing editor here, but was met with a firm refusal. Chunk5Darth (talk) 01:51, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the move review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the move review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
A move was requested to move Daniel to Daniel (biblical figure). I opposed the move, but I acknowledge there was consensus to move it. The issue now is which page should be called Daniel. The closer determined that the move was to be from Daniel (name) to Daniel. The thing is, only two editors were in favour of this, while two other editors explicitly argued for Daniel (disambiguation) to be the "main" (Daniel) page. So I am posting it here because (a) there doesn't seem to be consensus for this particular move, and (b) in such situations, where there is no clear primary topic (between the name, the biblical person, and the biblical book) the normal practice is to make the disambiguation page the main page. Thus, the closer's rationale to move Daniel (name) to Daniel rather than Daniel (disambiguation) to Daniel seems very weak. See also the John page, where the disambiguation page is the "main" one.StAnselm (talk)
I also think the move should have left Daniel as disambig page, and discussed it with the closer, getting him to at least add to his close statement, but before I noticed this review I started a new RM discussion about that, at Talk:Daniel#Requested move 7 February 2015. That discussion will probably converge more quickly than the typical move review. Dicklyon (talk) 03:36, 7 February 2015 (UTC) |
The above is an archive of the move review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the move review of the page above. Please do not modify it. | ||
A somewhat ridiculuous non-admin close reversing a unaminous Requested Move discussion, converting one support to an oppose, in direct opposition to the responder's opinion that the previous closer erred.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Dicklyon (talk • contribs) 02:33, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the move review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |