Wikipedia:No original research/Noticeboard

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This page is for requesting input on possible original research. Ask for advice here regarding material that might be original research or original synthesis. Include links to the relevant article(s). Make an attempt to familiarize yourself with the no original research policy before reporting issues here. You can also post here if you are unsure whether the content is considered original research. Sections older than 14 days archived by MiszaBot II. (For help, see Wikipedia:Purge) If you mention specific editors, please notify them. You may use {{subst:NORN-notice}} to do so.
Additional notes: "Original research" includes unpublished facts, arguments, speculation, and ideas; and any unpublished analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position. Such content is prohibited on Wikipedia. For volunteers wishing to mark a discussion resolved, use {{Resolved|Your reason here ~~~~}} at the top of the section.
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Semantic infiltration

Anyone want to take a crack at Semantic infiltration? It was created by an obvious sockpuppet and I've already removed some of the most unsuitable content, but there still appears to be a good deal of OR and SPS. If you think it just ought to be TNT'd that's cool too, I thought I'd just bring it here first. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 19:39, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Gayre's thesis regarding Ancient Zimbabwe

I am writing to ask whether, with your help and input, it might be possible to find an acceptable way of summarizing a few points made by Robert Gayre in his book (and maybe his articles) explaining why he favours the 'Semitic' theory for the origin of the ancient Zimbabwean Civilization. Some Wikipedia readers are undoubtedly curious and interested to learn what the arguments are - both for and against the 'Semitic' theory (and indeed the 'Shona' theory, too).

In the 'Lemba' section of the Wikipedia 'Great Zimbabwe' page, the old summary which was there until 4th May, was deemed to contain 'Original Research', and therefore inappropriate for Wikipedia.

OK, I won't argue with that - but I am wondering if there might be a way of compromising - by simply extracting the relevant points from Gayre's book - and then presenting them - without discussing how they might relate to other people's findings. Could we then regard such a text, as not comprising 'Original Research'?

If so, this is how it might look:

- - - - - - - - - - -

1. The Lemba were esteemed by neighbouring tribes as exceptionally skilled miners and metal workers; (these were distinctive features of the Zimbabwean Civilization).

2. The stone phallic symbols discovered in some of the ancient ruins, were models of circumcised male organs; (that is significant because surrounding tribes regarded the Lemba as the masters and originators of the art of circumcision).

3. The Lemba buried their dead in an extended rather than a crouched position, (i.e., they chose the same style as that found in certain Zimbabwean graves which contained gold jewellery).

4. The old Lemba language was a dialect of Karanga (which is the language spoken today in the area around Great Zimbabwe).

Thus, Gayre argues that the South African Lemba are probably descended from members of the original community who fled southwards when Great Zimbabwe was captured by non-Semites.

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It goes without saying that all suggestions for modification, will be well received.

Dougweller also asked me to mention that we have been discussing this topic at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Great_Zimbabwe

With thanks in anticipation, DLMcN (talk) 21:00, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Gayre's thesis no longer has support among the vast majority scholars. It is mentioned in the article as a matter of historical interest. To expand the existing section without violating WP:UNDUE would require at least one reliable contemporary source, which appears not to exist. In the absence of a reliable source, the requesting editor has constructed various formulations that are clearly original research, reflecting material self-published elsewhere on the Web (which has also raised WP:COI issues. Johncoz (talk) 11:48, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Lighthouse Pub

The creator of the Lighthouse Pub article has used his own blog [1] as a source and claims to be a former journalist [2]. If he can provide examples of his past work in the relevant field from reliable sources, could his blog be considered a self-published expert source, therefore passing the WP:NOR requirement? --Drm310 (talk) 19:30, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

User:4WhatMakesSense

User 4WhatMakesSense (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) is adding idiosyncratic theories, or deleting properly sourced text, at multiple articles and "supporting" these by near-incomprehensible arguments. Examples include Book of the Dead [3] [4], Aramaic language [5] [6], Mesha Stele [7] [8] [9]. Zero^talk 14:04, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

That is a lot to accuse because of one TALK. ~ I pointed out the Mesha Stele, might be a religious Piltdown Man, by one person. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piltdown_Man ~ And here you are running to have me hung??? Lemaire, made the claim that the stone fragments of Meshe Stele were good enough to make plaster casts. Yet not good enough to keep??? What Archaeologist of sound mind would throw away the Stones referencing "King David" or "Israel" on them & keep only the plaster cast?

You seem to have no idea of what original research is and why it is not allowed on Wikipedia. You should start a blog or something, this is no place for your theories. Zero^talk 14:44, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

What was being posted are people romantic theories. There is not proof Lemaires story or evidence is true. {Lemaire story was the same as when Hilary Clinton got off a plane and claimed she landed under fire. http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/25/campaign.wrap/ } 4WhatMakesSense (talk) 14:53, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

I don't think this is the right board for this problem. It's really for discussing whether or not particular edits constitute OR, not for problems with user conduct, including deletion of sourced content the editor does not agree with. Paul B (talk) 15:47, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Paul B, Meshnaic related articles, need Editorial Oversite. Mishnaic Hebrew is not as old as Wikipedia authors, using corrupted author sources, are citing. http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/259061/Hebrew-language#ref267076 Quote: "; Mishnaic, or Rabbinic, Hebrew, the language of the Mishna (a collection of Jewish traditions), written about AD 200 (this form of Hebrew was never used among the people as a spoken language);"

Quoting Britannica, "Few traces of dialects exist in Biblical Hebrew, but scholars believe this to be the result of Masoretic editing of the text. In addition to the Old Testament, a small number of inscriptions in Hebrew of the biblical period are extant; the earliest of these is a short inscription in Phoenician characters dating from the 9th century BC.

During the early Mishnaic period, some of the guttural consonants of Biblical Hebrew were combined or confused with one another, and many nouns were borrowed from Aramaic. Hebrew also borrowed a number of Greek, Latin, and Persian words."

^ Encyclopedia Britannica repeats, people since inventing the Masoretic Text (900-1100AD) have been purposely destroying traces of which language produced the Hebrew Language. I have repeatedly confirmed by finding the original source, that Aramaic is phonetic or script of the Source Language being falsely called Hebrew. Even Hebrew University confirm Biblical Hebrew Script IS Liturgical Aramaic http://cal1.cn.huc.edu/aramaic_language.html

The Biblical Torah began with King Ahmoses in Egypt, when Minoan Crete Volcano Erupted between 1650-1550BCE, but someone is claiming Ah-Moses only reigned for five years 1555-1550BCE??? Facts are Aramaic is the only Language that covers the span between Book of Genesis Chapter 19 with Abraham seeing a Volcano, and then Ah-Moses Where the Upper & Lower Kingdom became one so they could move away, "Exodus" from Lower Egypt(Nile Delta) to what people call Middle Egypt or Memphis, escaping the Clouds of Ash which Rained with Fire from the Volcano about 1650-1550BCE. Aramaic is the language of God. A "Hebrew Language" did not Exist, it was like Ge'ez priestly Aramaic so commoners could not read it. 4WhatMakesSense (talk) 22:06, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

* Here is a University confirming Biblical Hebrew is Liturgical Aramaic. http://cal1.cn.huc.edu/ 1300BCE Aramaic.

4WhatMakesSense has been blocked for disruptive editing. Zero^talk 02:28, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Rfc on Ethnic conflict in Sri Lanka

I have started a Rfc on Ethnic conflict in Sri Lanka which is relevant to this noticeboard - "Does this article comply with Wikipedia's core content policies: neutral point of view, verifiability and no original research?" Please feel free to comment here. Thank you.--obi2canibe^{talk contr} 19:15, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Highway shields

Just after some generic advice, though I may bring up the exact discussion in question if discussion continues. Is a diagram of a highway shield considered to be original research if it is copied from, or based upon, photos of real-world installations. WP:NOR would seem to suggest that most original images arent considered original research, so long as they do not illustrate or introduce unpublished ideas or arguments. I would assume a highway shield which marks a roadway would not do either (and that it would affect things more like controversial graphs and diagrams which portray complex information in a visual form). Do others beleive I am correct in this regard? It seems pretty clear cut to me, or am I misreading the policy? Is there any circumstance where a highway shield diagram outside in a non-disputed territory could be claimed to be OR? -- Nbound (talk) 14:00, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

I think you are interpreting the policy correctly, but I would have to see the image in question to know for sure. One thing to keep in mind (don't know if this applies or not)... often the image on its own is not OR, but the caption accompanying the image is. Blueboar (talk) 14:45, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Ok, lets settle this then (or Im sure it will be bought up again): The shields im refering to are the New South Wales alphanumeric markers.

Sources included: [10] [11] and multiple images asuch as those in a gallery (scroll down) here: [12]

This is the old (at this stage partial) set based upon site here: [13] - These are a promotional set and are unused in the real world.

Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Australian_Roads#AUshielding_conversions is the discussion if it helps.

I have left a NORN-notice on the talk page of the other users who have posted.

These images are used in infoboxes, and generally dont ever have captions (no captions so far have been queried by anyone anyway). The may be related text for WP:ACCESS requirements (eg. <highway shield (M1)> Testcase Highway (M1))

See a real world example here on the infobox here: Sydney–Newcastle Freeway

Nbound (talk) 21:43, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

OK, I think I understand your question, but let me make sure I have it right... an editor has created some graphics depicting the various types of road signage used in NSW, and wants to use his/her editor-created graphics in the infoboxes of articles on NSW roads. The graphics are based on the diagrams and photographs you linked to above. And your question is: can the graphics be used, or do they violate NOR? If that is indeed the question, then the answer is: The graphics may be used. They do not violate NOR per the "original image" exemption. If there is some other question, please clarify. Blueboar (talk) 14:00, 20 May 2013 (UTC)