Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard

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Welcome to the dispute resolution noticeboard (DRN)

This is an informal place to resolve small content disputes as part of dispute resolution and get assistance to the right place; request for comment, conduct RFC, mediation or other noticeboard, if involving other issues. You can ask a question on the talk page. This is an early stop for most disputes on Wikipedia. You are not required to participate. Any editor may volunteer! Click this button Button rediriger.png to add your name! You don't need to volunteer to help. Please feel free to comment below on any case. Be civil and remember guidelines and policy when discussing issues. Noticeboards should not be a substitute for talk pages. Editors are expected to have had extensive discussion on a talk page (not just through edit summaries) to work out the issues before coming to DRN.

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Case Created Last volunteer edit Last modified
Title Status User Time User Time User Time
User talk:Semitransgenic 1New ItsAlwaysLupus (t) 2014-08-30 00:16:00 None n/a ItsAlwaysLupus (t) 2014-08-30 00:16:00
Talk:BlackLight Power#New_source.3F 1New Blippy (t) 2014-08-31 02:59:00 None n/a Alexbrn#Conflict of interest declaration (t) 2014-09-01 06:36:00
2014 Israel–Gaza conflict 1New TheTimesAreAChanging (t) 2014-09-01 03:04:00 None n/a TheTimesAreAChanging (t) 2014-09-02 08:16:00
Last updated by DRN clerk bot (talk) at 08:30, 2 September 2014 (UTC)



Current disputes[edit]

User talk:Semitransgenic[edit]

Symbol wait old.png – New discussion.
Filed by ItsAlwaysLupus on 00:16, 30 August 2014 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

Users involved

Dispute overview

Post-disco is an obscure albeit controversial article that has a long history dating back to 2007. There were a dozen times of article being nominated for deletion over the claim that Allmusic Guide is not a reliable source however that was proven untrue. User:Semitransgenic's revision describes multiple "post-discos" while the previous, mine (which I adopted from a user from a previous conflict over the article, from User:Mjb) describes it in a rather general tone that a musical "movement" has occured which I found indisputable until User:Semitransgenic came and edited the article his way without showing no regard to sources. Problem I found with User:Semitransgenic's revision is that it is factually incorrect, too literal and does not hold on the weight of presented sources. This is basically the movement versus multiple unrelated genres argument all over again.

Resolving the Dispute (Part I)
I feel insulted he took time to respond to a pre-generated message I posted earlier than my actual concern about his editing ways and that he does not feel remorse about his trigger-happy actions. His work on Wikipedia is truly commendable in regard of cleaning electronic music dance articles from garbage but he is also reckless and his actions on the article were proven superfluous and dangerous. He burst in and chopped down any sources indicating a form of music and instead inserted appropriated facts the way he sees it contrary to how Simon Reynolds and Allmusic describe post-disco.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

(Part II)
I am all for cosmetic changes that involve elimination of waffles and all these little imperfections but diminishing the meaning of sources and ambiguating content in already an ambiguous article is not acceptable and that's why I think it would be best to have a debate in a public space which offers a possible solution.


How do you think we can help?

One of my most promising suggestions is to take the article to its previous state, before the changes, which is a stable revision, less controversial than the current revisions, with a few additional tweaks like import of the new sources.

Summary of dispute by Semitransgenic[edit]

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

User talk:Semitransgenic discussion[edit]

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

Talk:BlackLight Power#New_source.3F[edit]

Symbol wait old.png – New discussion.
Filed by Blippy on 02:59, 31 August 2014 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

Users involved

Dispute overview

There is discussion about whether an editorial in a well regarded physics journal is a secondary source, and whether it should be included in the article. For convenience, here is an extract from the editorial:

Despite the reservations about the “hydrino” hypothesis expressed by some members of the scientific community, we decided that, after ensuring that the paper passed all necessary refereeing procedures (review by two independent senior members of the academic community), we should publish this paper rather than silence the discussion by rejecting it. We view this as the most effective way to stimulate scientific discourse, encourage debate, and engage in a meaningful dialogue about what is admittedly a controversial postulate.

The following draft sentence has been proposed, but no consensus reached thus far: In 2011 the editors-in-chief of a reputable physics journal characterised the hydrino hypothesis as being worthy of further scientific discussion and debate while acknowledging the "reservations...expressed by some members of the scientific community".

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

Engaged in discussions on my Talk page.

How do you think we can help?

Editors seem to be fairly polarised in their view of Blacklight Power on the talk page. It would be very helpful for people less interested in (or committed to) currently accepted physics to bring some dispassionate attention to the nature and quality of the source in dispute as such editors are less likely to be distracted by the implications of what BLP does in deciding on the issue of WP:RS.

Summary of dispute by Alexbrn[edit]

Trying to torture meaning out of a flimsy editorial comment in order to big up a fanstastical claim which would re-write the laws of science. I don't think so. Alexbrn talk|contribs|COI 06:36, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Ronnotel[edit]

The article in question is from European Physical Journal D, a mid to high quality journal that consistently ranks in the top or second quartile related to other physics journals. It is unusual for a journal such as this to publish an editorial justifying a decision to publish a paper. The reason for doing so is that one potential interpretation of the results would have a profound impact on our understanding of quantum mechanics and the Standard Model. However, there could be other interpretations that would not be as impactful, but could still introduce new science. However, how will these interpretations be resolved if the results are summarily suppressed? How does it serve the scientific process to prohibit the mention of an article such as this? Ronnotel (talk) 13:43, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by 2siNkarma86[edit]

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Summary of dispute by LeadSongDog[edit]

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

One SPA disagreeing with all others about a source for a fringe free energy claim hardly deserves a serious response. Going forum shopping when prospects at the article talk page dry up? Priceless. LeadSongDog come howl! 05:12, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Bhny[edit]

If something is "worthy of further scientific discussion" it will be discussed and maybe then we will have something to add to the article. Let us wait for a discussion! Most wikipedia topics are worthy of discussion and obviously we don't state that in an article. Being "worthy of discussion" is not a notable thing, and also the quote is from a primary source. Bhny (talk) 03:34, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by VQuakr[edit]

  • The source in question is the 1.1-paragraph editorial here, linked from here if the direct pdf hyperlink does not work. It does not mention the subject of the article in question, BlackLight Power (BLP).
  • The proposed edit badly misinterprets the source, which is much more a dry justification than an endorsement. That the editors felt the need to justify publishing one of Mills's papers is not relevant enough to BLP to merit inclusion in the article. VQuakr (talk) 04:52, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Johnuniq[edit]

Talk:BlackLight Power shows a large amount of activity focused on attempts to find something that might be added to the article to boost the impression that the company may be on the verge of a scientific breakthrough that will provide endless energy at low cost. However, the talk page also has a large section at the top regarding "Arbitration Committee Decisions on Pseudoscience" showing that scientific consensus determines what appears in articles, and by that guideline a throw-away editorial should not be used to suggest a positive result regarding hypothetical hydrinos. Johnuniq (talk) 04:33, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Talk:BlackLight Power#New_source.3F discussion[edit]

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

2014 Israel–Gaza conflict[edit]

Symbol wait old.png – New discussion.
Filed by TheTimesAreAChanging on 03:04, 1 September 2014 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

Users involved

Dispute overview

Reliable sources--including news reports describing the attacks, official statements by the Israeli PM, and secondary analyses--state that Hamas began directly firing rockets at Israel on June 29 or June 30. Other reliable sources state that Hamas only began taking formal "responsibility" for rocket attacks after a July 6 Israeli attack on Khan Yunis killed Hamas members. Even though all of those sources explicitly attribute the latter claim to Hamas, and my opponents acknowledge the ambiguity of the "responsibility" language, outspoken anti-Israel activist editors have deleted the Israeli claims on the grounds that the sources are somehow less than reliable. The discussion on the talk page speaks for itself.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

Talk page discussion.

How do you think we can help?

You can examine the sources in a neutral manner and suggest a proposed wording.

Summary of dispute by Nishidani[edit]

Nothing to say here, because the report falsifies the evidence (all sources do not attribute to Hamas a claim that they took responsibility on the 7th. (b)'outspoken anti-Israel activist editors' is the editor's way of writing 'people who disagree with me', and implies the editor has already profiled people who do not agree with him as animated by some pathological hostility to a state. It's a smearing caricature.Nishidani (talk) 09:19, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Kingsindian[edit]

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

The issue here is when Hamas rocket fire started. There is a long discussion here. The basic source here is Nathan Thrall. The full quote by Thrall is given here.

Several points now:

  • The lead is a summary, and it was agreed to keep it as short as possible.
  • Thrall is a neutral, highly respected analyst at the International Crisis Group. The source is eminently WP:RS. There is no "Hamas claim" which he is reporting.
  • Thrall makes it clear that the rockets before July 6 were fired by non-Hamas groups. The last sentence by Thrall is slightly ambiguous, which can be read as Hamas taking responsibility for rocket fire after 6 July, or Hamas taking responsibility for rockets before 6 July.
  • Other sources detailed in the section speak less ambiguously and each points to July 6 raid as the date when Hamas started firing rockets. There is only one exception cited there, J.J. Goldberg, who repeats the Israeli claim that the rocket fire started on June 30.
  • There are some news reports, cited here by TheTimesAreAChanging which (mostly) report the Netanyahu claim, or cite the IDF that Hamas rockets started on June 30 or "Hamas involvement" in the rockets. A typical example is the Reuters report, which makes it clear (even in the title) that it is reporting Netanyahu's claims. Most of the other news reports either quote the IDF or Netanyahu. As far as I can see, there is exactly one report by Ynet, an Israeli newspaper, which states this in its own voice, but a cursory look at that article will show that it is based on IDF sources.
  • Newspapers are meant to report real-time things and often they just report, "he said, she said" (often they don't bother about "she said"). The Thrall source (and others cited in the section) are neutral, third party analysts, some of them could be accused of bias for sure.
  • I have offered earlier to include the Thrall quote with its slight ambiguity and with attribution. That was not commented upon, and I assume, rejected.

This is not the venue to be discussing conduct, so any accusation of "anti-Israel activist editors" is out of place. Needless to say, it is false, TheTimesAreAChanging has already made up his mind about me and nothing will shake it. Kingsindian (talk) 12:53, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Shrike[edit]

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Summary of dispute by -sche[edit]

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Summary of dispute by IRISZOOM[edit]

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

2014 Israel–Gaza conflict discussion[edit]

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

The BBC source says "On 7 July, Hamas claimed responsibility." Thrall says "[On 7 July,] Hamas began taking responsibility for the rockets." (Which may include the rockets fired before.) Both of those claims are explicitly attributed to Hamas. By contrast, Goldberg says "On June 29, an Israeli air attack on a rocket squad [emphasis added] killed a Hamas operative. Hamas protested. The next day [Hamas] unleashed a rocket barrage, its first since 2012. The cease-fire was over. Israel was forced to retaliate for the rockets with air raids." Ynet reported: "For the first time since the end of the IDF Operation Pillar of Defense in November 2012, the Hamas military wing is behind rocket strikes on Israel, with a wave of attacks overnight Sunday (June 29) and early Monday emanating from central Gaza refugee camps completely under Hamas control. There a number of Palestinian factions active in Gaza and though Israel views Hamas as responsible for any rockets fired from the Gaza territory, the group generally avoids such direct attacks on Israel. In the past 24 hours, however, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades have been launching rockets from the Dir al Balach, Bureij and Muasi refugee camps...Monday's rockets were of an older make known to be in the Hamas arsenal...The IDF said Mohammed Zaid Abid was killed after the army launched a targeted attack against his rocket launching cell minutes before they planned to fire at Israel. Abid was identified by Palestinian media as a member of the Hamas military wing." So Ynet cites the IDF and Palestinian media for information on Abid, but neither Ynet nor the later analysis by Goldberg directly attribute the claim of Hamas rocket fire on June 30 to Israel. Even if the Reuters article quoting Netanyahu were the only source, and this was an "Israeli government POV", it would be grossly misleading to suppress it in favor of the official Hamas POV. Nishidani and Kingsindian appear to believe, because they are fans of Thrall's work and have praised it on Nishidani's talk page, that Thrall had some mechanism for determining the earlier reports of Hamas rocket fire were false and for verifying the official Hamas claims. That is sheer nonsense.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 08:16, 2 September 2014 (UTC)