Talk:Stefan Molyneux

NPOV Living Person

{{close In regards to the treatment of Mr. Molyneux Wikipedia fails today and has failed from inception to be neutral on the subject. Wikipedia would have it that Mr. Molyneux was a fringe personality aka Nebbish in 2009 to the very reincarnation of Adolph Hitler in late 2021!

My suggestion is that a consensus be reached to either 1) remove this entry entirely as Mr. Molyneux is totally irrelevant or 2) correct the neutrality of the entry.

From 2009

Stefan Molyneux (born 24 September 1966)[1] is a blogger, essayist, author, and host of the Freedomain Radio[2] series of podcasts, living in Mississauga, Canada. He has written numerous articles and smaller essays which have been published on liberty oriented websites such as LewRockwell.com, antiwar.com and Strike The Root, recorded over a 1300 podcasts and written numerous books which all are self-published except for his first which was published by Publish America. In 2006 Stefan Molyneux quit his previous job in the field of computer software to be able to work full-time on Freedomain Radio, a philosophical community website which is completely funded fans of his work through donations and subscriptions of extra media and forum sections.

Now in Late 2021

Stefan Basil Molyneux (/stəˈfæn ˈmɒlɪnjuː/; born September 24, 1966) is an Irish-born Canadian far-right white nationalist[2][3][4] and white supremacist[5][6] podcaster, blogger, author, political commentator, and banned YouTuber, who promotes conspiracy theories, scientific racism, eugenics, and racist views.[7][8][9][10][11][12] As of September 2020, Molyneux has been permanently banned or permanently suspended from PayPal, Mailchimp, YouTube, Twitter and SoundCloud, all for violating hate speech policies.[13][14][15][16][17]

Molyneux is described as a leading figure of the alt-right movement by Politico and The Washington Post, and as far-right by The New York Times.[18][19][20][21] Tom Clements in The Independent describes Molyneux as "an alt-lite philosopher with a perverse fixation on race and IQ."[22] Molyneux describes himself as an anarcho-capitalist.[18]

Multiple sources describe the Freedomain internet community as a cult, referring to the indoctrination techniques Molyneux has used as its leader.[23][24][25][26] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.203.10.104 (talk) 04:08, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

--- Those sources are obviously polemical. Read what the authors write, they are obviously click bait political hacks. Is Daily Wire a legitimate source?

""The Laundry List of References may indicate a lack of NPOV, and the judgement-conclusion in the first sentence reflects a lack of NPOV""

Twenty references used in the first sentence is a laundry list supporting a conclusion that Molyneux is a white nationalist, white supremist. The laundry list is in itself an argument to support the conclusion and therefore is not presenting neutral information in a neutral tone. The subject is being lambasted with an irrefutable list, a laundry list. We really don't know the reasoning as to why he was de-platformed and the major social media networks intentionally don't provide a reason for doing so.

A fact about Molyneux is that he was de-plaformed. That fact in itself is neutral. Molynenux engages in rhetoric which resulted in his de-platforming.

Have you any sources for your changes?

And no we will not either change it or delete it. We will change it or keep it as it is.Slatersteven (talk) 17:02, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

By the way, the reason we have a laundry list of sources is the constant claims to provide RS calling him this. Technically they should not be in the lead, but rather used in the body.Slatersteven (talk) 17:04, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

And we do know why RS said he was deplatformed, we go with that RS say.Slatersteven (talk) 17:09, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

• When it comes to public figures like Mr. Molyneux, we have to reflect what the sources say, even if the article's subject might dislike or be unhappy with it. And the fact is that his promotion of white supremacy and conspiracy theories is what he is most notable for and has extremely heavy coverage - more than enough to satisfy WP:BLP. --Aquillion (talk) 21:36, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

What I have found 1) The Southern Policy Law Center presents a chronology of Molenuex's rhetoric along with an analysis of his methodology.SPLC Research Re Molyneux - Position Paper 2) The same type of Chronology can be seen on the wikipedia page of David Duke 3) A big difference between the two is that Molenuex churns out a huge amount of rhetoric and Duke is less esoteric 3b) the SPLC speaks to the amount of rhetoric as a propaganda strategy 4) Opinion and Research - The SPLC piece is both research and opinion - it cites example to present an argument. 4b) None of the articles cited speak to fact - they just parrot . 5) When I looked at The numerous sources cited in the first lines of Wikipedia article they share the same quotations and they derive from an event which is de-platforming; they don't even contain references of the primary source that can be found in SPLC - the source that argues that Molyneux is "evil" ; The CEO of Britannica speaks to this; "We live in a world where we’re actually consuming more information, but processing less and less information. When you look at how the search and social engines work, it’s based on popularity — what are people likely to click on? And scandalous information — not the truth kind of information — seems to be the one that’s coming to the top. 6) The reason fact and NPOV has to be established is that the tone of this article has a parallel to McCarthyism - although repeated Ad nauseam in external sources and then cited here; the conclusion being drawn is an argument without proof or substantiation; The motivation of Molineux might be profit, followers, narcissism, mental illness, or just pure rhetoric. He might believe what he believes; He might be making arguments to absurdum 7) What is your responsibility here? I don't think it has been met. It has to be toned down to neutral. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.203.10.104 (talk) 02:54, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

His statement to counter the public condemnation - The right to defend yourself in light of public opinion or condemnation is essential to a free society '

Race The major human races diverged tens of thousands of years ago, and had to adapt to very different environments – from brutal Siberian winters to the lush dangers of the tropics.

These varied environments posed unique challenges to our evolution, and gave each race its particular characteristics. Some people refer to these as “strengths” and “weaknesses,” but I strongly oppose such judgments.

Evolutionarily speaking, the words “strengths” and “weaknesses” are mostly meaningless – especially when talking about different environments. All creatures strive their best to adapt to their local environments.

I do not believe that any race is “superior” or “inferior.” I accept the biological facts that some racial differences exist, because philosophy teaches us to accept facts – even if they make us uncomfortable. (The virtue of intellectual courage is only required when contemplating uncomfortable facts.)

Philosophy also teaches us to avoid judging individuals by group averages – although women may be shorter than men in general, you can never prejudge any individual woman as being shorter than the average man.

I would love nothing more than to live in a world where we treated people as individuals – Martin Luther King’s dream of judging people by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin – but there is a growing group of people who claim that all differences in outcomes for various groups result from (usually white/male) bigotry, and that is an unjust and incorrect claim.

Although there are many talented Chinese basketball players, we would not expect the majority of professional players to be Chinese, for various historical, cultural, and physical reasons.

Average tested IQ levels vary among different ethnicities – again, we must never judge individuals by group averages, but group averages nonetheless exist, and play at least a part in social and economic outcomes.

I have always believed – and taught – that human beings can only resolve conflicts via reason and evidence. We can only meet and find peace in reality – not in ideology or fantasy or wish fulfillment or rage or, strangely enough, in the racial prejudice that results from denying average group differences.

I talk about these issues because I wish to help de-escalate increasing ethnic tensions and hostility, so we can have a reasonable conversation about these issues without coming to open violence, which will be our inevitable destination if these conversations continue to be suppressed.

I believe in equality before the law and reject any and all laws based on race. No race should “rule” or dominate any other race.

Eugenics is a government program that uses force to control people’s reproductive choices and is utterly immoral.

I am not an “ethno-nationalist” but an advocate for a stateless society. In a truly free society, people can live however they choose, as long as they do not initiate the use of force. The violence required to create an “ethno-state” would be a monstrous violation of the non-aggression principle, and should be utterly condemned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.203.10.104 (talk) 04:46, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Of course he denies it, most racists do. But he is not an RS for what he is. At best we can say "but he denies this".Slatersteven (talk) 11:32, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

I think that is the solution "At best we can say "but he denies this" <-because then there is balance aka NPOV in this article: its impossible to know what people believe and its impossible to refute what people believe - that is why the David Duke article is more professional; Duke actually does things in the real world which can be monitored and are part of a chronology; Molineux a creature of rhetoric and he has thousands and thousands of hours of bloviation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.203.10.104 (talk) 15:36, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Which is why we go with how RS (and particularly those who study the subject) interpret it. They will have studied his rhetoric, and compared it to what others say.Slatersteven (talk) 15:44, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Also, inserting a blanket denial ("but he denies this") would be useless, see Wikipedia:Mandy Rice-Davies applies. TucanHolmes (talk) 13:53, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

This article seems biased.

See WP:DENY; this has been discussed to death, and until something new is brought to the table or specific instances of bias mentioned, we should not discuss it over and over.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
You can tell the author doesn’t like the subject. An encyclopedia article shouldn’t drip with digs, belittling and animus. 2601:589:8481:1720:6458:375D:7C09:707C (talk) 23:57, 1 January 2022 (UTC) You'll need to be more specific. I don't see any obvious instances of bias. —C.Fred (talk) 00:00, 2 January 2022 (UTC) Also there is no one author, this is a collaborative effort. So feel free to offer suggestions for improvement.Slatersteven (talk) 11:26, 2 January 2022 (UTC) The entire article is a massive instance of bias. The whole thing is practically made up from political activists. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shweenee (talk • contribs) 09:02, 18 January 2022 (UTC) Perhaps, or perhaps they are right, and people like Molyneux do not like being called out on what they say? That is why we have to go with RS, becasue we all have opinions.Slatersteven (talk) 10:13, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Media Matters as a Source

WP:DENY. This is beyond Civil POV pushing. It is clear the IP user is more interested in incoherent ranting than actual discussion (see talk page history).
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Why would anyone consider "Media Matters" to be a Reliable Source? The reference here is a clear indicator of bias. Ironically when you compare this Wikipedia to Media Matters - Media Matters is entirely more NPOV! Stefan Molyneux Far-right conspiracy theorist - Stefan Molyneux promotes scientific racism, which cloaks discredited racist arguments that other races are inferior to whites in an academic veneer. He often comments on race and IQ and spreads conspiracy theories on social media. The SLIGHTEST modification of this article towards NPOV (even the removal of a footnote) seems to be impossible!— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.203.10.104 (talk)