Talk:Charles Robert Jenkins

missing stuff

60 minutes interviewed him. From this volatile and thus useless link I found out that...

"They also assigned him a Korean Êwoman, with whom he was supposed to have sexÊ twice a month. "The leaders almost tell her when to do it, and I got in a big fight one time over it," recalls Jenkins.ÊÊ "I told [the leader], 'It's none of his business if I want sleep with her. She wants to sleep -- we sleep.' 'No -- two times a month'" He says he was severely punished for talking back. "That's the worst beating I ever got -- over that," he tells Pelley, showing a scar where he says his teeth came through his lower lip."

Also:

"When Jenkins finally stepped outside the North Korean culture after 40 years, he was most surprised to see women in the Army, limits on where you could smoke and black policemen. He had never heard of 60 MINUTES and thought Life magazine would be the place where he would tell his story."

Maybe somebody can figure out how to link to that; hopefully Google will cover it soon enough. It was titled:

U.S. ARMY DESERTER DESCRIBES 40 YEARS IN NORTH KOREA HELL

Thu Oct 20 2005 14:43:07 ET

This may do:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/10/20/60minutes/main959455.shtml

AlbertCahalan 02:56, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Charles' aged face

He's only 65, yet he looks 20-25 years older.

Contrast that with Jesse Jackson, born 1941, who looks like he's still in his 40s!

So why does Charles' face look much older than he is? --Shultz 13:05, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

lol! Living a very hardlife in a thirdworld nation for nearly 40 years would wear you down to. Jesse Jackson's, as much as he is to be admired, can't exactly claim the same circumstances. Shadowrun 21:42, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Life in North Korea isn't easy. Clean water isn't easy to come by, food is scarce that and his heavy drinking all will age any one.FLJuJitsu 13 September 2007 (UTC)

On the contrary, clean water is abundant in North Korea. There is very little industrial pollution because there is very little industry. I have stood on the banks of the Taedong River in the heart of Pyongyang and looked at stones on the bottom of the river. Water is extremely clean! I suggest Jenkins looked so haggard when he first departed North Korea due to years of smoking and drinking. He confessed that in the year immediately prior to departing for Indonesia he spent most of the time drunk on the floor of his quarters. Don’t blame the water -- clean water might be the only thing in North Korea easy to come by. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.79.62.16 (talk • contribs) 08:30, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Clear water is not the same thing as clean water. As Jenkins explained in his book, the river water was often contaminated with human waste, making it undrinkable. In any case, I don't think his appearance has anything to do with the water. Jenkins seems to be haggard because of a combination of biology and hard living—smoking and drinking in the large quantities he admits to will do that to you. Joe Dresnok, in Crossing the Line, says that when he first met Jenkins, from afar he thought he was an old man, because he looked so wrinkled. But Jenkins was 24 years old! So Jenkins likely had a tendency to wrinkle, anyway. What gets me is how old his wife looks. Japanese people are envied for so often looking younger than their age. They DID have hard living, and that very likely contributed to their aged appearances, and took a toll on their health. Abshier died at age 40 of a heart attack and Parrish died at age 52 after years of kidney problems. Dresnok has major heart and liver problems, as explained in Crossing the Line. The producer said in an interview that he didn't think he'd live much longer (but he's still alive, and now in his mid-60s). And when Jenkins went to Indonesia, the Japanese doctors were very worried about his health due to "botched" prostate surgery. Jenkins definitely looks better in the videos of him from Japan.QuizzicalBee (talk) 14:02, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

How was Dresnok involved in the movie?

Dresnok, according to the article, was a fellow American captive. How is it that he was responsible for post-production dubbing of the propaganda film, Nameless Heroes? Needs clarity edit. Sugarbat (talk) 04:59, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

I saw the documentary about Dresnok; I don't know who originally put this nonsense about Dresnok saying that Jenkins' performance in the movie was atrocious, needed dubbing, etc. Dresnok actually praises Jenkins' acting in Nameless heroes, even though he does not like the guy ! Jean-Jacques Georges (talk) 10:17, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Jenkins' accent

Jenkins is described as having a "thick North Carolina accent" (discussing his teaching English to N Koreans). Changed this to read "thick Southern US accent". This is more accurate (there is no N.Carolina accent; NC has various accents by region) and corresponds more directly to the highlighted link of Southern US English...Engr105th (talk) 20:22, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Controversial

"This interfered with the government's goal of teaching spies English so that they could pass as South Korean, and when the North Koreans realized this, he was fired from that job.[citation needed]". This is a very controversial and provocative claim, especially with citation. It should be removed or else strongly emphasised that it purely represents what Jenkins himself said. Bonzostar (talk) 20:00, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

External links modified

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"People from Sado, Niigata" category?

Is the "People from Sado, Niigata" Category really appropriate here? He wasn't born or raised there, and only lived there for the last few years of his life.--Muzilon (talk) 09:34, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

Unless there's a contrary codified consensus, I'd say yes: he explicitly chose to live the rest of his life there. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 02:02, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The file Charles Robert Jenkins.png on Wikimedia Commons has been nominated for deletion. View and participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. Community Tech bot (talk) 22:07, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

North Carolina Service Ribbon

The article states that Jenkins displays the North Carolina Service Ribbon. While he may have earned it, he does not wear it in the photo accompanying the article. Additionally, he could not wear it, as National Guard awards can not be worn by a Soldier in the Regular Army - which Jenkins was a member of. (IAW Army Regulation 670-1) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.218.113.113 (talk) 07:11, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

There's no reason for the article to say that, as it's not mentioned in any of the reliable sources. However, a recent expansion to the article shows he was enlisted in the Army National Guard for some years before enlisting in the active-duty US Army. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 02:02, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Charles Robert Jenkins.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. Community Tech bot (talk) 21:36, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

potential sources to mine

• Talmadge, Eric (2005-01-31). "Deserter Adjusting to Life on Japan Island". Associated Press.
• "U.S. Army Deserter to Seek U.S. Passport". Associated Press. 2005-02-28.
• Jenkins, Charles. Crossing the Line. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 02:02, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Ten Zan: The Ultimate Mission

It's disputed whether Jenkins played "Dr Larson" in this film. Other sources say the actor was Charles Borromel, a British actor who bears a slight resemblance to Jenkins. Muzilon (talk) 20:55, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

That's the IMDb, which isn't a reliable source on the English Wikipedia. Do you have any other sources that contradict the one in the article? — Fourthords | =Λ= | 15:11, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

Yes, Schönherr's North Korean Cinema: A History, which credits Charles Borromel (not Jenkins) as "Professor Larson". The entire film is on YouTube; the Larson character first appears at the 8-minute mark; the actor clearly isn't as jug-eared as Jenkins. Borromel's name appears in the opening credits; Jenkins' name does not. The source cited here (Nanarland.com) appears to be a WP:SELFPUBLISHED website about B-movies which features an interview with another Ten Zan actor, Romano Kristoff, who is quoted as saying "From what I can recall, [emphasis added] Charles was a very good actor and a very humble human being." It seems likely that the webmaster of Nanarland and/or Kristoff are confused as to which "Charles" appeared in the film. Muzilon (talk) 03:08, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

I've rephrased the prose to lend equal credence to Kristoff and Schönherr per the neutral point-of-view policy. I've removed the statement that Borromel looked like Jenkins as original research, since the neither Kristoff nor Schönherr say such. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 17:13, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Another point to note is that Jenkins in his autobiography only specifies acting in the propaganda film Unsung Heroes, not Ten Zan. It's doubtful the Italian producers of Ten Zan would have cast Jenkins, who was not a professional actor. Muzilon (talk) 01:25, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

Could be, and those are reasons to keep an eye out for further reliable sources that may also contradict Kristoff. Right now, though, I'd recommend we maintain the only two reliable sources we have that explicitly contradict each other in the interests of maintaining our neutrality. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 16:01, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

But is Nanarland.com reliable? As I said, it appears to be WP:SELFPUBLISHED. Muzilon (talk) 22:37, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

Anything an interviewee says is self-published material, and yet we have a whole template devoted to citing them. As a performer on the same film, and lacking any other reasons to dismiss him out of hand, Romano Kristoff's claims regarding the production of the film are warranted. They might be wrong, and we're including that, but it's not our place to say he's wrong. It's equally not our place to say that Johannes Schönherr is correct. They strike me as equally-but-middlingly reliable when lacking a preponderance of sources either way.

As for Nanarland, on the face of it, the website appears to be a reasonably reliable French-language source for films and those involved therewith. The company does have a blog and forum on their website, which I haven't delved into, but the rest of the site—film analysis, biographies, interviews, etc.—looks well above board. It's also been cited 50 other times on this Wikipedia (not to mention 331 citations at the French Wikipedia). With which aspects of the site do you take issue? I'm not a native French speaker, so if you're seeing something there that's concerning, the reliable-sources noticeboard would be the place to evaluate it. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 11:08, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

less specificity?

On 10 January 2023 at 08:07 UTC, IACOBVS (talk · contribs) replaced the sourced prose of He was instead held prisoner in North Korea for 39.51 years with He was instead held prisoner in North Korea for over 39 years. Why is it beneficial to be accurate but less specific, when we have a source to cite for the latter, too? — Fourthords | =Λ= | 13:45, 10 January 2023 (UTC)