User talk:AndyTheGrump

Retired.

That's disappointing

That's disappointing. I was hoping to talk over with you an idea or two I have for reforming the ethos here. Well, I hope you reconsider. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 09:46, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

What Anthonyhcole said. Come back soon, please. Message from this disgustingly saccharine sweet nice guy on Wikipedia, Peter aka --Shirt58 (talk) 12:27, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, c'mon back, how else are we going to stem the tide of Bloomex puppets? --CliffC (talk) 00:52, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

I've noticed that Wikipedia has fallen into disrepair over the last couple of years, but that doesn't mean that it can't be fixed. All we really need is a better notification system so that users will be notified whenever any of their edits are modified or reverted. Jarble (talk) 17:11, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

How is WP:WATCHLIST not good enough? As for Andy, via email, he knows how I feel about his departure. Flyer22 (talk) 17:51, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Nice to see you back, Andy. Flyer22 (talk) 07:49, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks - but I'm only intending to get involved the Boston bombings article, and maybe other 'breaking news' stories in future, if I get the urge. They need all the help they can get to avoid collapsing in a mire of trivia and moonbattery if they aren't watched, and I can walk away as they settle down, without having to worry about the long-term (where the moonbats will no doubt creep back in, but are of less consequence). Basically, such articles make a mockery of WP:NOTNEWS, and any attempt to edit without falling foul of WP:3RR (amongst other policies) is doomed to failure. The way I see it, they are best edited by people who aren't over-concerned by the day-to-day trivia of Wikipedia, and are more concerned about actually presenting decent articles even if it involves breaking a rule or two, and telling the less clued-up 'contributors' to go boil their heads. This will of course put me at risk of getting blocked, but I think the results are worth the risks - and at some point, Wikipedia is going to have to acknowledge formally that we can't handle breaking news within existing policy, and either stop creating such articles (fat chance) or find a way to constrain content to something approaching journalism - which will probably involve abandoning the 'anyone can edit' mantra, and accepting that many people shouldn't... AndyTheGrump (talk) 08:11, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Grump, please do come back full time. You and Tarc are my favorite bullshit busters. (And in other news, it appears I've been given the sysop buttons. Shome mishtake, shurely? Ed.)--Shirt58 (talk) 10:39, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Bullshit busters? LOL, that's a great way to put it. You are back for a good cause, Andy, and what you stated about that makes perfect sense. And I'm right there with you on the "many people shouldn't" edit Wikipedia aspect, which is something WP:Disruptive editing and WP:COMPETENCE touch on. As we know, even some people who don't fall into those categories have proven detrimental to Wikipedia. Flyer22 (talk) 11:24, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

what's the problem exactly?

hi. you reverted a good-faith and valid edit of mine for basically an inaccurate and befuddling reason. You said "there's no such thing as a 'pressure cooker explosive'". Huh? Yes there is, it's a "bomb". It's called "explosive" in the other article... So how can you say that there's "no such thing"? A "bomb" IS an "explosive". What exactly is the problem? I reworded that way, because "pressure cooker bombs" in the very very first sentence just doesn't sound right, right off the bat. But "pressure cooker" should be in the lede right after to simply elaborate it. But the point is it's called an "explosive" in the other article. So your revert was invalid, to be blunt, and the wording is arguably better this way now, in the lede. Regards. Gabby Merger (talk) 07:19, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

No. A Pressure cooker bomb is a bomb made by placing explosives in a pressure cooker. It is the content that explodes, not the container. As for what the other article says, we don't cite ourselves as a source. AndyTheGrump (talk) 07:25, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Welcome back. Collect (talk) 11:31, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

WTF, the same as Collect's having, hope you're still grumpy! CaptainScreebo ^Parley! 23:07, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

IT IS CALLED

-

? AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:14, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Vandalism, and maybe finally now semi-protecting the Kermit Gosnell article

Andy,

I know you not, but I agree with at least the first couple of things you posted on the Kermit Gosnell article's "Talk" page; and so I'm now asking you to please go read the two sections I just created on it (items 20 and 21, I believe) and see if you agree; and then to post, accordingly there, in response.

I'm not fan of semi-protecting articles; but this one has gone from such obscurity that some were calling for its deletion to, since FOX called attention to the story, an article that has become sufficiently hot that it's getting too many drive-by vandalisms, in my opinion.

Or am I wrong? I am, seriously, one grump to another, interested in your opinion. Thanks!

Gregg L. DesElms (Username: Deselms) (talk) 21:53, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

If you are referring to this edit [1], it doesn't actually fall under the Wikipedia definition of vandalism, as I see it. It is certainly inappropriate, and has been reverted - though you could have done this yourself. I'm not active much on Wikipedia now (see above), and suggest that if you are worried about the article you raise it at WP:BLPN, and ask for a few more eyes on it. I doubt that you'd get far asking for it to be semi-protected though, on the basis of a single edit. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:50, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Dispute resolution

Hi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Juggalos_.28gang.29 — Preceding unsigned comment added by AnnerTown (talk • contribs) 09:07, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in.

This message is being sent to you let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You do not need to participate however, you are invited to help find a resolution. The thread is "Juggalos (gang)". Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you! EarwigBot ^{operator / talk} 03:03, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Rick Nicholls

Andy -- I was hoping you could look into the current (as of this post at least) version of the Rick Nicholls article. I stumbled on his page and thought the last contribution is a BLP issue. You have more experience in that area than myself and I would be much more comfortable if you weighed in. Thanks! Lettik (talk) 14:38, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

New section for misguided attempt at intimidation

Your recent editing history at Psychotronics shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.
You have ignored the talk page repeatedly, ignoring the need for consensus and discussion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Damonthesis (talk • contribs) 21:27, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Nope - it doesn't work like that. When you revert multiple editors, it is you that is edit-warring... AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:33, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

May 2013

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on British Pakistanis. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware, Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:

1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made; that is to say, editors are not automatically "entitled" to three reverts.
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. Stop removing cited text for spurious reasons, it is not difficult to find sources for that content Darkness Shines (talk) 08:25, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Sorry!

Ah sorry abut the comment at ANI that comment wasn't aimed at you. I was referring to the IP's talk page they claim they weren't threatening legal action but proceed to use the words legal action and libel right after that...Cameron11598 (Converse) 20:05, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Susan J. Elliott

By the way, Orange Mike has blocked her IP address for legal threats. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:11, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I am aware of that - and as I've made clear at ANI, I consider it entirely inappropriate that he did, given his involvement. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:14, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

And while I disagree, I respect your reasoning and your desire to respect our processes. No hard feelings at all on my end, Andy. --Orange Mike | Talk 20:15, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of 2013 Mother's Day Parade shooting for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article 2013 Mother's Day Parade shooting is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2013 Mother's Day Parade shooting until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Thryduulf (talk) 13:36, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks!

That fix on the Mongolian People's Republic article is what I was trying to do. I don't know why it didn't go through the first time... Odin of Trondheim (talk) 19:41, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

No problem. Between us we got it right in the end. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:55, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Ahmadiyya

Hi Andy, I had added a few lines to the Ahmadiyya on Israel. The lines are fully within the Ahmadiyya faith. I am myself an Ahmadi and had done so with a correct intention.. Please read the Ahmadiyya Commentary as cited in the Ref. Thanks. Be well. --ڈاکٹر محمد علی (talk) 19:39, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

The correct place to discuss this is at Talk:Ahmadiyya. Regarding your edits, you will have to find published sources that explicitly state that Ahmadis believe such things. Citing verses from Bible or Quran is entirely beside the point. If you aren't already familiar with it, I suggest you read the Wikipedia policy on original research - your own knowledge or opinion regarding the subject matter isn't acceptable as a substitute for verifiable material. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:51, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

OK. Thanks I will. --ڈاکٹر محمد علی (talk) 21:16, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Sergey Brin

at "Sergey Brin" article :

false statement that :" at Moscow State University, Jews were required to take their entrance exams in different rooms than non-Jewish applicants, which were nicknamed "gas chambers", and they were marked on a harsher scale."

So, despite I explained that the following statement is false -" According to Brin, at Moscow State University, Jews were required to take their entrance exams in different rooms than non-Jewish applicants, which were nicknamed "gas chambers", and they were marked on a harsher scale." - it is restored by moderator. Ofcource you may claim that it is opinion of mr. Brin (Seregy's father), but the fact is that facts reported in this quote are not true - Yes, I can understand mr. Brin's (the senior) resentment about some aspects of Soviet past and bitter feelings about Moscow University, but wikipedia is not a novel and to cite here obviously false statements would hardly be right...I am not very good in English language(sorry) and so I am not going to involve myself in discussions, but want to remind you some other articles from this same wikipedia about some Nobel Prize winners of Jewish origin who graduated from Moscow State University - look at this :

"Vitaly Lazarevich Ginzburg, ForMemRS[1] (Russian: Вита́лий Ла́заревич Ги́нзбург; October 4, 1916 – November 8, 2009) was a Soviet theoretical physicist, astrophysicist, Nobel laureate, a member of the Soviet and Russian Academies of Sciences and one of the fathers of Soviet hydrogen bomb.[2][3] He was the successor to Igor Tamm as head of the Department of Theoretical Physics of the Academy's physics institute (FIAN), and an outspoken atheist.[4]

Biography

He was born to a Jewish family in Moscow in 1916, the son of an engineer Lazar Efimovich Ginzburg and a doctor Augusta Felgenauer, and graduated from the Physics Faculty of Moscow State University in 1938. He defended his candidate's (Ph.D.) dissertation in 1940, and his doctor's dissertation in 1942."

There are numerous other examples of less known professors of Jewish origin in USSR....You may explore it yourself using this wikipedia. It is just to prove you that not only my own expirience contradict to this ridiculous statement that "at Moscow State University, Jews were required to take their entrance exams in different rooms than non-Jewish applicants, which were nicknamed "gas chambers", and they were marked on a harsher scale.", but also information from this same wikipedia also contradict to this statement. I think that it is your responsibility not to misinform readers - I understand that you report opinion of mr.Brin (father of Sergey Brin), but from reading the text a reader can't understand that this opinion may be not exactly true. I still recommend you to deleat this quotation - it is false and not nesessary even if you want to prove that Jews indeed had some difficulties in USSR (other facts pretty much prove that - no need to use false information to prove that) - so why to oppose obvious fact that this quotation is misleading? Please deleat it yourself - it is a matter of truth vs. false, not a matter of my attempt to prove my point no matter what.I'll come back to read your responce, but will not involve myself in further discussions, - I think that I provided enough proves. (or you may leave a quotation but to change the paragraph so that readers understand that there are alternative opinions about words of mr.Brin regarding practicies of Moscow Univeresity in Soviet times regarding Jews) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.252.74.147 (talk) 21:34, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

The correct place to discuss this is at Sergey Brin. I edited the article to make it clear that this was Michael Brin's assertion. The article did not then state that Jews were discriminated against at Moscow State University. It stated that Michael Brin claimed that they were - and we cite a source which verifies that he made the claim. I suggest you familiarise yourself with Wikipedia policy regarding what is considered a reliable source for article content, and refrain from editing further - if you continue to do so, you are liable to be blocked for violating our policy on edit warring. If you wish to continue this discussion, please do so on the article talk page. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:04, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Dear friend.I got the following responce from you - "The correct place to discuss this is at Sergey Brin. I edited the article to make it clear that this was Michael Brin's assertion. The article did not then state that Jews were discriminated against at Moscow State University. It stated that Michael Brin claimed that they were - and we cite a source which verifies that he made the claim. I suggest you familiarise yourself with Wikipedia policy regarding what is considered a reliable source for article content, and refrain from editing further - if you continue to do so, you are liable to be blocked for violating our policy on edit warring. If you wish to continue this discussion, please do so on the article talk page"

I have explained that despite it is cited as Michael Brin's quote (I see that), but it is actually a quote that may constitute a legal matter as far as defamation of Moscow Univercity is concerned (defamation is the communication of a factual statement that harms the reputation of an individual, business etc.) - so you communicated the factual statement of mr.Brin - I see that - but this statement is false and there are numerous proves for that (including other articles from Wikipedia that state that people of Jewish origin were not prohibited to enter faculty of phisics of Moscow University (*I cited for you one of those articles from wiki) as well as those facts about "gas chambers" and separate rooms for Jews in Moscow Univercity are not true - I have explained that my English is not good enough and that explains that I can't maybe express myself in friendly way (that I want to do), but for you English in not foreign language and so I don't understand your cold (to say it mildly) warning not to edit further...I again ask you to kindly reconsider your choice of quotation in the article (I think you can not realise that it is the case of defamation in its pure form)...In case you disagree with my opinion, please, provide me with information where I can file complain because I think that this case is too serious to leave it as it is. I still hope to find understanding with Wikipedia (which I respect a lot) - otherwise I'll have to bring this case for Univercity of Moscow to take this kind of things more officially and according to legal practice and international laws178.252.74.147 (talk) 22:42, 16 May 2013 (UTC).

Please read Wikipedia:No legal threats. Contributors making such threats are liable to be blocked from editing. If you chose to withdraw the threat (which will be necessary for this discussion to continue), please make any further postings at Talk:Sergey Brin as I have asked. This is not the appropriate place to discuss article content, and I will accordingly not respond to any more postings here. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:49, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Ref desk

Regarding this,[2] note that I deleted it as soon as it was asked, and someone put it right back. I then figured someone else might come to their senses and zap it. Thanks for being the one. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:03, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks - frankly I'm disappointed that it stayed up as long as it did. Some people have no sense. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:06, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes. Ironically enough, there's easily one or more ways to ask the question without coming off like a racist rant. For example: "What is the source for some of today's popular African-American given names?" When I was a kid, it seemed like at least half of the black ballplayers were named "Willie". Names like Denzel and Keisha certainly seem like an interesting improvement. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:04, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Dear Mr. Thegrump

I just received your message regarding citing personal interviews. The policy you cite makes perfect sense. Considering wikipedia's 5th pillar regarding "Wikipedia does not have firm rules," and considering that I don't want to teach my young charges to lie, can you help me find a way to bridge the gap between what the students did and what wikipedia allows? Is there some way to cite an oral history? Someway to acknowledge a local expert?

I understand this is not the only thing for you to concern yourself with, I just want to be forthright with the students when I speak to them. I also want to reinforce citing sources. Please, any help would be appreciated.

Mcadorette (talk) 17:41, 19 May 2013 (UTC)mcadorette

About the only way around this I can think of is to get the material published somewhere else first. At a pinch, you might get away with placing the material on your school website (if you have one), and citing that - but this might be seen as questionable per Wikipedia:Verifiability policy as a 'self-published' source, and certainly shouldn't be done with anything that looks contentious or overly-promotional. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:56, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the quick response. I appreciate your candor.

Mcadorette (talk) 18:01, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Pubmed indexed journals in Ayurveda

Dear AndyTheGrump, Good evening! I find it extremely important to bring to attention that PubMed indexed journals are really important for the progress of Ayurved in scientific direction. My motive is to put the names of the journals is to percolate the information. If this information will be put, the reader will get the better idea about the topic of 'Science and Ayurveda'. I really appreciate your concern to remove the material as it may not be suitable at that particular place. But can you suggest me a better place for that information? Maybe an article with title - Pubmed indexed journals in Ayurved? There one can write the history, importance, limitations and current journals in Ayurved which are PubMed indexed. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 12:43, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

I very much doubt that an article entitled 'Pubmed indexed journals in Ayurveda' would be acceptable. Wikipedia is not a directory. If individual journals can be shown to be of significance, there may be grounds for discussing them in the Ayurveda article - but this would need evidence from third-party reliable sources. This isn't really the best place to discuss this though - I suggest you discuss article content on Talk:Ayurveda. AndyTheGrump (talk) 12:48, 20 May 2013 (UTC)