Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 August 24

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August 24

This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on August 24, 2017.

Tim Darcy (musician)

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was retarget to Ought (band). (non-admin closure) feminist 05:39, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

• Tim Darcy (musician) → Jagjaguwar  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Tim Darcy's debut solo album was released earlier this year and fairly widely reviewed (see Metacritic). He seems likely to be notable per WP:MUSICIAN, so per WP:RDEL#10 this is better off as a redlink. If this isn't deleted, I think it should be retargeted Ought (band) – i.e. to the band of which he's a part, rather than the record label to which he's signed. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 22:07, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

• Keep and retarget to Ought (band). I really don't understand the point of deleting redirects in most cases. I understand we have a page with listed reasons why, but in this case, the other article has more info on Darcy. I can't even recall why I created said redirect. Ss112 01:08, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
• Retarget to Ought (band), without prejudice against creation of a full article if one can be reliably sourced. If a musician doesn't have a BLP but a band he was in does, then the band is an appropriate redirect target until such time as a BLP of him actually exists — but he shouldn't just be a redirect to the record label that happened to release his solo album, especially if there's another target available that contains more information about him than just his name. Bearcat (talk) 19:41, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Blossom (Blossom Utonium)

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was delete. -- Tavix ^(talk) 01:18, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

• Blossom (Blossom Utonium) → List of The Powerpuff Girls characters  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• Bubbles (Bubbles Utonium) → List of The Powerpuff Girls characters  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Delete per result of Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 August 14#Buttercup (Buttercup Utonium). Steel1943 (talk) 21:29, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Never used as an actual character name. Character is always referred to by her common name Buttercup, or Blossom and Bubbles. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 16:37, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
• Delete - per WP:OR. The characters are never referred to by last name in the series. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 13:20, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

The Breeze (Thames Valley, Reading)

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was delete. -- Tavix ^(talk) 01:18, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

• The Breeze (Thames Valley, Reading) → 107 JACK FM (Berkshire)  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Apparently the station will be rebranding however no sources confirm this as of yet and as such this is more or less WP:CRYSTAL, Station's never been known as "The Breeze" and as I said no sources indicate this is happening so IMHO it should be deleted for now and if sources crop up then it can be re-moved at a later date, Thanks, –Davey2010^Talk 14:27, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Thryduulf (talk) 15:32, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

• Delete. If and when reliable sources confirm that this is actually happening, then the article will get moved to the new title accordingly — but there's no need for a redirect from a rumoured but as yet unverifiable future branding change to the existing title. Bearcat (talk) 16:17, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Blue Dragon

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was Essentially wrong venue. This current WP:DABNAME violation is the result of a bit of an edit war between a couple of editors. I recently fulfilled a technical move request to revert an undiscussed move to move the video game to a title with a disambiguator. In addition, the move of the video game article broke links to the video game subject's GA nominations since the subpages of "Talk:Blue Dragon" were not moved with it after adding the disambiguator "(video game)" to its title. I'm going to revert the move and procedurally start a move request for this (which really should have been done in the first place since AngusWOOF requested the WP:BOLD move reverted.) I will link the move request here after I create it. (non-admin closure) Steel1943 (talk) 14:46, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

• The aforementioned move request has been initiated at Talk:Blue Dragon (disambiguation)#Requested move 24 August 2017. Steel1943 (talk) 15:17, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

• Blue Dragon → Blue Dragon (video game)  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Blue Dragon was primary topic for the video game since 2006 and was rated as a good article. Recently an editor has renamed Blue Dragon to Blue Dragon (video game) and moved Blue Dragon (disambiguation) page to Blue Dragon without discussion, and although I tried to WP:RM/TR it back, the editor moved it again. This discussion is to confirm whether Blue Dragon video game should still be primary topic or whether it is time for the (video game) page, and Blue Dragon to be the dab page. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 13:39, 24 August 2017 (UTC) updated 14:15, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

• Given the other potential topics for "Blue Dragon", I would disagree that indefinitely the video game will remain the primary target over time. It makes sense to have the disam page as the primary target for "Blue Dragon". --MASEM (t) 13:47, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

• Comment We should also discuss the fate of Blue dragon, Blue dragons, Blue Dragons, which I believe should go to the dab page. If the video game is still primary topic then Blue dragon (lower case d) should be the name of the dab page. Consider Cold case and Cold Case and Cold Case (disambiguation). But if they all go to the dab page that's an option too. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 14:24, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Foghorn Leghorn and The Barnyard Dawg

• Foghorn Leghorn and The Barnyard Dawg → Foghorn Leghorn  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

WP:XY. Could refer to Foghorn Leghorn or Barnyard Dawg. Steel1943 (talk) 08:14, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

• Keep this appears to be an {{R from merge}}. Given that both characters starred in the same cartoons I don't think it unreasonable for people to search for them together, and there is more information about the rivalry between them in the target article than in the Barnyard Dawg article so this is the most helpful target. Thryduulf (talk) 12:45, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
  • Yes, the word "merge" is in an edit summary in the redirect's history, but the redirect contains no edit history, making it a {{R from move}} and not a {{R from merge}} per our current definition of a {{R from merge}}. In fact, here is the edit summary of the first of now 4 edits on the nominated redirect:

    22:57, 7 October 2008‎ Prolog (talk | contribs)‎ . . (29 bytes) (+29)‎ . . (moved Foghorn Leghorn and The Barnyard Dawg to Foghorn Leghorn: per requested move, also merging page histories)

    ...If anything happened here, it was an edit history merge, not a content merge (which is what {{R from merge}} is used for.) Steel1943 (talk) 14:32, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Classic WP:XY. -- Tavix ^(talk) 01:17, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Bucket-O-Nothing

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was delete. -- Tavix ^(talk) 01:15, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

• Bucket-O-Nothing → ReBoot  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Seems to be a WP:NOTWIKIA violation. The subject is not mentioned at the target article, and per this article on the ReBoot Wikia for Mike the TV, the subject of the redirect seems to be a miscellaneous item advertised in a fictional commercial in ReBoot. Steel1943 (talk) 06:51, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Pluto filmography

• Pluto filmography → Pluto (Disney)#Appearances  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Given that Pluto is the article about the current/former planet, this redirect could be considered incorrect or ambiguous. Also, Pluto (Marvel Comics) has also appeared in visual media. Steel1943 (talk) 06:43, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

• Disambiguate if there are multiple Plutos with a filmography, keep if there aren't. Thryduulf (talk) 12:46, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
• Keep. I think the current target is by far the most likely intended target; I find it quite hard to imagine somebody searching for this hoping for a list of films starring the dwarf planet. The Marvel character is more of a possibility, but is much less high-profile than the Disney character, so I think this is best resolved by adding a hatnote ({{redirect}}) for Pluto (Marvel Comics) to Pluto (Disney)#Appearances. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 23:00, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Eager Young Space Cadet

• Eager Young Space Cadet → Porky Pig  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Thought Porky Pig is the fiction character who portrays "Eager Young Space Cadet", the character is exclusive to Duck Dodgers, so it would probably be more helpful to retarget the redirect there. In addition, no currently-existing pages that start with "Duck Dodgers" redirect towards Daffy Duck (Duck Dodgers being Daffy Duck's alter ego in the Duck Dodgers series), so retargeting the nominated redirect to Duck Dodgers seems like a more helpful and consistent option. Steel1943 (talk) 06:20, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

• Weak keep there is very slightly more information about Eager Young Space Cadet in the Duck Dodgers article it is easier to find in the Porky Pig article and the Duck Dodgers article is more prominently linked from the information in the Porky Pig article than vice versa. Thryduulf (talk) 12:49, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

Sleepy Daffy

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was delete. -- Tavix ^(talk) 01:14, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

• Sleepy Daffy → Daffy Duck  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

The word "sleepy" is not present in the target article. Steel1943 (talk) 05:00, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

• Nominator comment: Seems this redirect may have a connection with the article Yankee Doodle Daffy. Seems the character Daffy was impersonating in that article's subject was named "Sleepy". (However, at the present time, I'm not convinced that this redirect should be retargeted there, but I am not opposed to that happening either.) Steel1943 (talk) 05:04, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
• Delete. The character he was impersonating in Yankee Doodle Daffy was named Sleepy Lagoon, not Sleepy Daffy, so I can't see any plausible reason why anybody would type "Sleepy Daffy" into the search bar to find him. Bearcat (talk) 19:45, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Dafydd Wooldridge

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was delete. -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 03:39, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

• Dafydd Wooldridge → Daffy Duck  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Not mentioned in target article. Also, per third-party search engines, I am not finding any connection between the redirect and its current target. Steel1943 (talk) 04:59, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

• Delete. I'm also unable to find any connection between the redirect and the target. Thryduulf (talk) 12:53, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
• Delete. I checked the creator's edit history to see if I could suss out a reason for this, and found that their last four Wikipedia edits ever were this, Luke Pugh → Eddie Munster, Greg McManus → Philadelphia (film) and Norma Byrne → Alice Cooper, all of which suffer from the exact same problem of lacking any identifiable or sourceable reason to exist at all. Frankly, I suspect some form of "redirecting classmates to unflattering targets" attack vandalism. I've already nominated the other three for deletion on the August 27 daylog. Bearcat (talk) 21:03, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
• Delete. Checked Facebook for the page name, and sure enough, there was a Dafydd that's friends with all of the redirects that Bearcat listed. Booyahhayoob (talk) 01:46, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
• Delete as made up redirects of friends or acquaintances. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 15:52, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Paperino

• Paperino → Donald Duck#Italy  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Not sure about this one. The redirect is a foreign-language redirect, and currently targets the section where it is mentioned. However, the redirect is essentially a partial title match for the foreign language name "Paolino Paperino". For this reason, this redirect could possibly be misleading for someone attempting to find a different subject named "Paperino". Steel1943 (talk) 04:56, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

• Comment FWIW the the it.wp article about Daffy Duck is at it:Paperino so it seems like this is the primary topic for the word in Italian. Thryduulf (talk) 12:56, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
• Keep. Because Paperino is also the name of a comic book mentioned in the target section, and because the Italian Donald Duck is different enough from the American version that it is plausible that the Italian name should be used in English to refer to his Italian incarnation, this should be kept. It is not really a partial title match, because the character is generally known mononymously. Gorobay (talk) 13:53, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Paja Patak

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was delete. -- Tavix ^(talk) 01:13, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

• Paja Patak → Donald Duck  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

WP:FORRED redirect not mentioned in the target article. (This article contains a substantial amount of information about foreign language names for Donald Duck.) Steel1943 (talk) 04:53, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

• Delete per WP:FORRED. Thryduulf (talk) 12:59, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

BobbaTales

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was delete. -- Tavix ^(talk) 01:13, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

• BobbaTales → DuckTales  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

I'm not able to validate if this redirect is in a different language. But, then again, using third party engines, I was not able to verify that the redirect has any specific connection to virtually any subject. Steel1943 (talk) 04:36, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. "Bobba" is apparently a Swedish word meaning "bob" (as the sense of bobbing ducks) and an Old Frisian word meaning "child" (related to the English "babe") both of which are quite plausibly related to anthropomorphic cartoon ducks, but the word does not appear in the Swedish Wikipedia article about Duck Tales which seems to have been called "Ankliv" or "Knatte, Fnatte och Tjatte på äventyr" in Swedish. None of the West Frisian, North Frisian or Saterland Frisian wikipedias have an article, but I'd be surprised if the cartoon had be dubbed or translated into those languages. Thryduulf (talk) 13:11, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Foreign language redirects to Ducktales

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was delete. -- Tavix ^(talk) 01:08, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

• Ankronikka → DuckTales  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• La bande a picsou → DuckTales  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• La bande à picsou → DuckTales  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Delete all per WP:FORRED. Steel1943 (talk) 04:32, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

• delete all per nom. Thryduulf (talk) 13:11, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
• Delete all per nom. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 15:49, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Foreign language redirects to Huey, Dewey, and Louie

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was delete. -- Tavix ^(talk) 01:08, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

• Ripp, Rapp og Rupp → Huey, Dewey, and Louie  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• Ripp, Rapp og THorfinnur → Huey, Dewey, and Louie  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• Ripp, Rapp og Þorfinnur → Huey, Dewey, and Louie  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Delete per WP:FORRED. Steel1943 (talk) 04:22, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

• Delete all. Thryduulf (talk) 13:11, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
• Delete all per nom. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 15:49, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

List of billionaires by nationality

• List of billionaires by nationality → The World's Billionaires  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

The target page does not group billionaires specifically by nationality, not does it guide readers to pages where individual nationality lists can be found. Steel1943 (talk) 01:30, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

• Comment: Lists of billionaires was previously an article. If that article is restored, this redirect may plausibly target that page. Steel1943 (talk) 01:35, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. I'm personally also uncomfortable with redirecting general terms such as this (and Lists of billionaires) to proprietary terms and branded publications like The World's Billionaires. We don't redirect world records to Guinness World Records, nor music charts to Billboard Hot 100 – to do so would, I think, be a WP:NPOV issue. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 23:07, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
• Retarget to Billionaire#Statistics which has some lists of billionaires, at least from four of the major countries, and it has a link to The World's Billionaires, not to mention other starting points for research like List of countries by the number of billionaires AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 15:57, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Hazardous air pollutants

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was retarget to Air pollution. (non-admin closure) feminist 05:40, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

• Hazardous air pollutants → Category:Hazardous air pollutants  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Cross-namespace redirect. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:38, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

• Keep WP:R2. Cross-namespace redirects states:This applies to Redirects, apart from shortcuts, from the main namespace to any other namespace except the Category:, Template:, Wikipedia:, Help: and Portal: namespaces. Bosley John Bosley (talk) 11:43, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
• Delete BHG is correct, cross-namespace redirects like this are typically deleted, per WP:R#DELETE. BJB, you are referring to the CSD criterion R2, which is not being invoked here and is not relevant. If CHG had made a CSD tagging to the page, you'd have a point. She didn't, she nominated it for discussion here in line with policy on redirects. EdChem (talk) 13:50, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
• I'd say either delete or retarget to National Emissions Standards for Hazardous Air Pollutants, which has a list of hazardous air pollutants (as defined by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency). Either way, I don't think the current cross-namespace redirect should stay. -- Notecardforfree (talk) 19:25, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
• Keep per Bosley John Bosley. Mainspace-to-category redirects are excluded from R2 because they're often useful, and this is one of those cases. Both mainspace and content categories, like this one, are reader-facing, and if you go to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazardous_air_pollutants, you're taken directly to a page that help you get information on these pollutants. Nyttend (talk) 23:41, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
• Keep or delete to encourage article creation.  — Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)  00:34, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Tavix ^(talk) 02:46, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

• retartget to National Emissions Standards for Hazardous Air Pollutants which is what the category lists as the authority for membership. Mangoe (talk) 15:16, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
• Retarget to Air pollution, where Air pollutants points. Could you really have non-hazardous pollutants? I'm extremely wary of retargeting to a list defined by the EPA (cf. WP:INUSA) unless it can be demonstrated that it has international acceptance. --BDD (talk) 20:39, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Tavix ^(talk) 00:42, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

• Keep per Nyttend or regarget to Air pollution per BDD. I oppose a redirect to the EPA list as there is no indication that relates to any country other than the United States, which not infrequently categories hazardous substances differently to the EU for example and India is often different again (let alone any other countries). Thryduulf (talk) 13:15, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
• Retarget per BDD. The redirect to a category is not a problem in itself, but in this case there's an article which makes a better target. I also agree that redirecting this term, which is not geographically specific, to the U.S. standard is a poor solution. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 20:37, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

River Shields

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was keep. (non-admin closure) feminist 05:40, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

• River Shields → Willow Shields  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• Autumn Shields → Willow Shields  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Delete. The connection is unclear due to a lack of mention at the target. -- Tavix ^(talk) 00:41, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

• Keep. The three are siblings and I've added a sourced mention of their names at the target. Based on what I've found I don't think that either are notable at the present time. Thryduulf (talk) 13:25, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
• Keep per Thryduulf. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 21:17, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.