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Does everyone have the right to hat discussions and then delete any further contributions to that thread ?

Jayron seems to think so. I strongly disagree, especially since the reason for the hatting is often that no sources have been provided, and if they are later added, Jayron would then feel free to delete them. Thus, while supposedly asking for sources, the result is to block them from being provided. StuRat (talk) 02:34, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

The reason why we're discussing it here is because you have contested it. If the above discussion has a consensus to undo the hat, then we will put the discussion back at the status quo ante bellum. I have no problem with that. However, multiple people have requested and/or closed the discussion (not one, and I was not the first). Since you objected, I started the discussion above so you have the opportunity to prove me wrong by establishing consensus that I (and the people who objected before me) were wrong. Please stop with the general whininess here, however, and let the discussion take its course. If you were in the right, you'll win in a few days. The immaturity you just now displayed in starting this here thread is beneath you, and you're better than this. Don't do this. It makes you look bad. --Jayron32 02:40, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

The thread above is about the hat, this thread is about your claim to have the right to prevent any additions to a hatted discussion. I've never seem such a claim before. And since this would prevent fixing whatever alleged deficiency caused the hatting, it's also a bad practice from that POV.

You're also using the fact that Wikipedians rarely reach a consensus on anything, especially before it is archived and becomes moot, to get your way. Had you left the thread unhatted until there was a consensus to hat it, then it would likely remain unhatted permanently, but your way means it will likely remain hatted. StuRat (talk) 02:42, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

Look, if consensus is in your favor, I'll personally unarchive it and move it to the head of the line. If you're so sure you're correct here, you stand to lose nothing. --Jayron32 02:55, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

My preference is to follow widely accepted process, not invent our own rules. The hat is a disputed edit and therefore requires consensus. There is nothing here to support a WP:IAR rationale. ―Mandruss ☎ 02:59, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

As is mine. Which is why I started the discussion. --Jayron32 03:00, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

Please remove the hat pending consensus for it. ―Mandruss ☎ 03:01, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

I didn't put it there. Not my hat to remove. --Jayron32 03:04, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

So the only legitimate reverts are self-reverts? I have reverted the hat. ―Mandruss ☎ 03:08, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

I've left the hat, but undid your deletions, as there is no precedent on your right to delete additions to hatted discussions. StuRat (talk) 03:02, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

"If the above discussion has a consensus to undo the hat"

You don't need consensus to un-censor something on a talk page. You need consensus to keep it censored.

First you boldly censor it. Then someone contests it by reverting the censorship. Then you discuss it.

I know BRD isn't, strictly speaking, policy, but it's one of those time-honored guidelines that might as well be policy.

ApLundell (talk) 20:57, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

Calling it "censoring" is rather overstating it. One click and you can see it, if you're of a mind to. Rev-del is censoring. Hatting is not. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:07, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

Except that Jayron was deleting any further contributions to the hatted discussion. That is censorship. StuRat (talk) 05:06, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

Did he rev-del them? If not, then they're in the history, uncensored. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:14, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

They're out of sight, so they're out of mind. History is full of that kind of coverup, where an audience could simply turn elsewhere as easily for the fuller story, but stay where they are because they're already there. It's partial censorship, and you're both right. InedibleHulk (talk) 11:16, September 28, 2017 (UTC)

Filter 799

I was replying to a comment by Blueboar on the subject of Christianity and to do so I quoted a previous Humanities desk post. The filter rejected it claiming I am a "Ref desk Nazi". I fail to see why editors discussing Christianity should be categorised in this way. Maybe the filter should be retired? 92.8.220.234 (talk) 17:41, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, you got caught by the wrong filter. Nice to see you again Vote (X) for Change. --Jayron32 17:53, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

Deleting comments without reporting at Talk

asked 'n' answered; WP:DENY
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Baseball Bugs says he has deleted the following comment twice but he hasn't offered any reason for doing it. *Jiangsu and Wuhan are not languages. Jiangsu is a province, Wuhan is a capital city. That's like saying "I speak Virgina", "I speak Nashville". This is very disrespectul since you just picked random places, don't know what they really are and obviously don't care what is actually spoken there. Please use the terms "Jianghuai Mandarin" (or "Wu" if southern Jiangsu) and "Wuhan dialect". Jianghuai Mandarin is not homogeneous in itself, you should have provided a specific city. Overall, your example is seriously flawed. Next time, pick something you are more acquainted with. Moreover, you should have stuck to one example. Every case is unique and has its own research. Now, this discussion is just a whole mess and no one really knows what you were asking for. -- 92.75.104.125 (talk) 17:04, 22 September 2017 (UTC) What is wrong with it? I'm rather worried that this may have a chilling effect on editors contributing here. 82.14.24.95 (talk) 12:26, 30 September 2017 (UTC) By this logic, do we need a debate on talk about every debate on talk? This is far too META. Trolling, personal attacks, banned users, forbidden topics and the like are all subject to summary deletion without writing a book about it. I have no opinion on this deletion. Perhaps an edit summary like WP:DENY or sock of banned user X would help. If you have a question about a deletion that really needs addressing either take it to the deleting editor's talk page or if you think it's truly egregious bring it here. But not every flatted swy needs a 20 lb, two volume "autobiography" like Samuel Clemens. μηδείς (talk) 14:04, 30 September 2017 (UTC) Originally restored by an IP along with a personal attack in the edit summary.[1] I've reverted each attempt to restore it, which I stated as "trolling". The claim that I gave no reason is untrue. MarnetteD (talk · contribs) also deleted it once. I already talked to him about it on his page, and he agrees. The complainant here is probably just Vote(X) engaging in his usual attempts to cause trouble. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:11, 30 September 2017 (UTC) This goes back to Sep 22 when that item, along with a bunch of other stuff, was deleted by Jayron as being Vote(X) stuff.[2] The Vote(X) troll re-posted a few times and Future Perfect also rolled it back. It was then that the troll re-posted with the attack on Jayron. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:22, 30 September 2017 (UTC) META? IP Trolling? DENY. CLOSED! μηδείς (talk) 17:02, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

‎Big science equipment - rolled on wooden trunks?

I just removed this section from WP:RDS due to the nature of the username block on the OP. It's a shame, as it was a good question, but the new user posted it using the name of the perpetrator of yesterday's Las Vegas Strip shooting. It takes more than that to offend me personally, but I though it best for the public image of the ref desks that it be removed. I have no problem with the section being restored should that be the consensus. Cheers. -- ToE 19:50, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Excellent block and removal. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:22, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Autobiography previously declined as a Wikipedia article

I updated my draft with outside references to publications where I have been published and to the two published books I have written. If I am notable, it is for what I have written about outside subjects, not what I have written about myself. Please review my updated draft and tell me whether it comports with Wiki's criteria. Jim Zirin (talk) 03:46, 3 October 2017 (UTC)October 2, 2017

I added the title. Here's the draft: Draft:James_D._Zirin. This isn't the right place to resubmit it, but maybe others can help you with that. StuRat (talk) 06:01, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia discourages autobiographies, but you need to read WP:Referencing for beginners and add some in-line references to establish your notability in the Wikipedia sense. Dbfirs 08:01, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Rule of 10 and 5

In my head somehow I started thinking about the Reference Desks as having a Rule of 10 and 5. If a Desk regularly gets 10 questions a day, a split should be considered, if it regularly goes 5 days without a question, then a merge should be considered. Do other people have numbers for this?Naraht (talk) 15:47, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

I have to admit that I do not. I do think other factors come in as well, such as topical reasons for and against splitting and merging. As an example: I think it is a good idea not to split up the Science desk any further (Biology, Chemistry, Physics e.g.), even when it gets a lot of traffic, because questions there tend to reach into more than one of these fields and a number of volunteers understand several fields of science too, as well as their interactions and overlap.

5 days in a row without a question does sound extreme, even irregularly ... and yet this may have already happened, does anyone know? ---Sluzzelin talk 17:02, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

No desk achieved ten questions a day in September (I didn't look further back). If one other than science did, what would it be split into? 92.8.220.234 (talk) 18:12, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Sluzzelin, the Mathematics desk went through a recent dry spell, with no questions asked during the five days of August 16 through August 20, but that is the only time it happened to any of our desks this year. -- ToE 21:01, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks 92 and ToE. I couldn't find a day with 10+ questions on the Science desk during the past 2-3 years (I checked 2015, 16, 17). I didn't check the other desks (I did see one day in the Humanities desk archives carrying 9 questions, so it might have happened at WP:RD/H, though probably not frequently or regularly either). ---Sluzzelin talk 17:10, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Hmm. I found that through the first nine months of this year, ten or more questions per day have been asked twice on the Computer Desk, seven times on the Science Desk, and eleven times on the Humanities Desk.

RDC: 10/May14 10/May15

RDS: 10/Jan19 13/Jan24 10/Feb03 14/Feb19 10/Mar17 12/Apr19 10/Jun11

RDH: 10/Jan19 10/Jan20 10/Jan25 10/Feb08 10/Feb23 11/Apr09 10/Apr14 12/Apr19 10/Apr20 12/Apr30 12/Jun06

I don't feel that any desk is in need of splitting at this time. -- ToE 18:28, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Thank, ToE. I used "10." as a search term, not knowing the search function would leave out the questions' index numbers. Ignore my research, and thanks again. I see no need for splitting either. ---Sluzzelin talk 18:57, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Ha! Same think happened to me on the first pass. -- ToE 19:25, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

WP:BRD Removal of question

A user has removed this whole thread [3] without any discussion, claiming a reason of medical diagnoses or legal advice. I have reverted/restored, because I think that is ridiculous. If something must be removed, our own guidelines encourage removal of offending responses over removal of questions. For example "outright removal of the question is discouraged" and "Generally speaking, answers are more likely to be sanctioned than questions. " [4].

As I understand it, if you're reading this, you should not remove or alter the thread (other than good faith discussion there) unless consensus is reached here.

Thanks for your input, SemanticMantis (talk) 00:26, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

I knew exactly who had done the removing before clicking on the link. 95% of our bogus removals come from the same username, plus a few by a couple of editors who occasionally imitate the bad behavior.

This has the same simple answer as the last twenty times this has happened; topic ban Medeis / μηδείς from editing, hatting, or deleting anything written by any other editor on any reference desk. There are plenty of other editors watching who will remove any actual problem posts. Just make the request at WP:AN. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Guy Macon (talk • contribs) 02:10, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Agreed, except we can do it ourselves. Just automatically revert all deletions by Medeis, as she has never demonstrated the competence to know when to delete Q's. StuRat (talk) 18:32, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

WP:TPO bullet 4: Off-topic. Irrelevant to this thread, also pot-stirring. ―Mandruss ☎ 07:50, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Also, you're talking about banning Medeis, and at the same time you've been trying to get Betacommand unbanned - a user who did exponentially more damage to Wikipedia than Medeis could even think about doing. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:31, 4 October 2017 (UTC) Bullshit. I am NOT talking about banning Medeis/μηδείς. Medeis/μηδείς can make plenty of useful contributions while topic-banned from deleting what other editors write. And my !vote regarding Betacommand was neutral, not support. Arbcom has spent five years not making a decision. My RfC asks them to make a decision. I really have no strong feelings on what that decision should be -- whatever Arbcom decides is fine with me. --Guy Macon (talk) 07:34, 4 October 2017 (UTC) If they reinstate him, it's not fine. You started the RFC. Why couldn't you just leave it alone? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 07:43, 4 October 2017 (UTC) I am not going to discuss this with you here, because it has nothing to do with the reference desks. I advise other to likewise ignore your off-topic comments. --Guy Macon (talk) 07:48, 4 October 2017 (UTC) Until Maoon withdraws and disavows his attempt to get Betacommand reinstated, he has no moral authority to demand that someone else be banned. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:53, 4 October 2017 (UTC) Macon should withdraw his call for any ban on Medeis. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:17, 4 October 2017 (UTC) Just let it go, ffs. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 01:15, 5 October 2017 (UTC) Macon first. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:15, 5 October 2017 (UTC) Don't listen to Jack; he's becoming increasingly tiresome with his foolish insistence on decorum and adult behavior. By all means, continue with the irrelevant remarks and nyah-nyah namecalling. —Steve Summit (talk) 11:43, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

Of what value was that deleted thread? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:43, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

That's the wrong question to ask. That's a bit like saying: "That person's value wasn't immediately apparent to me, so I killed him." Or if I went to your talk page and removed everything I didn't consider valuable. Talk page contributions such as the Ref Desk can't be removed just because you see no value in them. They need to actually violate some policy. And, even then, boxing them up is preferred unless they are really bad. StuRat (talk) 18:28, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

It had considerable value. People do get diarrhea, and sometimes have to clean off in a shower. Should you clean the shower afterwards? I would use a spray bottle with a bleach solution myself. Also, the part about copper pipes and microbes was helpful, and the part about Islamic customs was pretty fascinating.

None of this changes the basic fact that WP:TPOC forbids removing what other editors write except in certain well-defined situations, and this wasn't one of them. --Guy Macon (talk) 08:15, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

I think there is some interest and value to both the question and the responses, but the issue of value is also completely irrelevant to the removal of the question and all responses.

We have no rules that questions or responses need to be valuable, none whatsoever. If anyone doesn't like to respond to questions of idle fancy, then I advise them to simple not do that. As you know, we are all volunteers here, and nobody is compelled to read or respond to anything on our ref desks. SemanticMantis (talk) 17:35, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Here is another: [5] --Guy Macon (talk) 06:14, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

(1) Sign your posts, whoever you are; and (2) that was an obvious trolling question. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:26, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

If it's so "obvious" why did StuRat revert the deletion and why do I agree with his revert? --Guy Macon (talk) 06:30, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

StuRat is notorious for not recognizing bad-faith or trolling questions when he sees them. And he also restored that nonsense about the all-salmon diet. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:37, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

There once was a drunk driver who was driving the wrong way on the freeway. Upon hearing on the radio (over the honking horns) that there was a drunk driver who was driving the wrong way on the freeway, he peered through his windshield, noticed all of the headlights heading toward him, and exclaimed "My God! There are DOZENS of them!!" --Guy Macon (talk) 06:43, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

That sounds like a guy who's trying to get Betacommand reinstated. Maybe you're unaware that trolling questions are subject to deletion. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:47, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Liar. I !voted "Neutral" on that RfC. I am through talking to you until you cite a policy or guideline that supports your false claim that "questions that call for speculation or debate are subject to deletion". --Guy Macon (talk) 17:37, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Didn't you start the RFC? As to your question, you already answered it. See the ref desk guidelines. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:20, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Straw poll: Topic ban for Medeis / μηδείς

Note: the reference desk talk page cannot impose a topic ban. If there is a consensus here, a request will have to be made at WP:AN (not ANI) to see if there is a consensus among the administrators.

Straw Poll

Should Medeis / μηδείς be topic banned from deleting, collapsing, or otherwise editing any comment posted by any other user on any of the reference desks?

Note: Because certain refdesk regulars have a strong tendency to WP:BLUDGEON and because this discussion may become heated, the straw poll section will be limited to one !vote per user, with no threaded replies allowed in the straw poll section. All users are free to make as many comments as they wish in the threaded discussion section. Any user may freely move any threaded reply posted in the straw poll section to the threaded discussion section. Please try to keep them in chronological order.

• Support As proposer. We have a large number of editors watching this page, and they can easily remove or collapse any material that needs it. --Guy Macon (talk) 06:13, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose - Macon's hypocrisy is showing, big time. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:23, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose - There are thread that do require removal ASAP and no evidence has been presented to convince me that Medeis should be prevented from doing that. MarnetteD|Talk 06:54, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

• Support. Too many of her deletions are fundamentally flawed. She does not seem interested in discriminating between content in violation of guidelines, versus content she personally doesn't like. The fallout from her deletions is all too often significantly more disruptive than the allegedly-inappropriate, deleted content was. —Steve Summit (talk) 12:02, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

• Support - The desks need more regulars working together and respecting collaborative process and consensus, and less of what amounts to shoot-from-the-hip vigilantism. Years of attempts to reason with Medeis have produced little improvement that I can see. It's her way or the highway, and that never flies with me (never mind that it violates Wikipedia policy). While her policing actions are not all bad, they are a clear net-negative in my view. ―Mandruss ☎ 16:22, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose. Scientific inquiry has its own norms. The verbal imagery of diarrhea and food and licking are outside of those norms. Medeis can correct me if I am wrong but it is the lack of effort to make a question presentable that prompts one to remove the question. This is the question asked: "If you dip a cube of metal, plastic, glass or nonporous ceramic/rock in diarrhea infected with the hardest to rinse deadly germs, how long would you have to rinse it with a showerhead before the top becomes food-grade clean and you could lick it?" Any question (just about) can be spruced up to look respectable. There are questions based on that question that acknowledge the scientific underpinning of an area of discussion but the disregard for any effort at formulating a presentable question warrants that question's removal. Bus stop (talk) 21:18, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

• Support - She seems to decide to remove a Q because she doesn't like it, then, maybe she tries to find an excuse, and maybe she doesn't even bother. Absolutely unprofessional application of her own personal opinion of what belongs and what doesn't.

Threaded Discussion

This would in no way interfere with Medeis / μηδείς answering questions or paricipating in any way that does not involve editing other user's comments.

Again and again we have seen Medeis / μηδείς deleting, collapsing, or otherwise editing comments posted by other users, and again and again we have seen the community push back with reverts and complaints. There are several other editors who delete or collapse with pretty much zero pushback, because they do it in situations where everyone agrees in needed doing. Whether it is a competence issue purposeful, Medeis / μηδείς simply does not have the ability to judge what should and should not be removed. There are plenty of other editors here who will do the job and do it right. We don't need Medeis / μηδείς doing it poorly. --Guy Macon (talk) 06:13, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Do you really think that question about trying to live on an all-salmon diet is worth anything? And wasn't there a recent similar question about another type of food? What was done with that? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:25, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Please quote the exact policy or guideline that allows you or Medeis / μηδείς to delete things because you are of the opinion that they are of no value. I couldn't find one, but it would be convenient if I were allowed to delete anything you write that I don't believe to be "worth anything". --Guy Macon (talk) 06:37, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Why should garbage questions be allowed to stay? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:39, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Evasion noted. You have not cited any policy that supports your assertion. You are advocating violating Wikipedia guidelines and policies, specifically WP:TPOC. --Guy Macon (talk) 06:41, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

You're the one evading. Questions that call for speculation or debate are subject to deletion. Maybe you weren't aware of that. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:46, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Cite the policy or guideline that says that questions that call for speculation or debate are subject to deletion. Please keep WP:LOCALCON in mind when answering. --Guy Macon (talk) 06:50, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

[EC] If you were thinking of citing WP:RD/G, don't bother. That page clearly says When removing or redacting someone else's posting, the usual talk page guidelines apply. The usual talk page guidelines include WP:TPOC. --Guy Macon (talk) 07:00, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

You've got to be kidding. Where have you been for the last 5 or more years? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:56, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Evasion noted. I am through talking to you until you cite a policy or guideline that supports your assertions.. --Guy Macon (talk) 07:00, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

The guidelines say that the ref desk is not for debate. And many other users have deleted questions that were obvious calls for speculation, debate, or just plain trolling. No wonder you're trying to get Betacommand reinstated - your sense of proportions is radically warped. But I guess I should expect no less from someone who once openly fantasized about murdering another user.[6] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:04, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

What's worse than hyperbolic overreaction to a humorous cartoon? Repeated inane hyperbolic overreaction to that cartoon, still ongoing 2+1⁄2 years after the fact. Could you perhaps find some other mindless mud to sling? ―Mandruss ☎ 07:26, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

One thing worse is trying to get the notorious user Betacommand reinstated, while at the same time trying to get a ref desk user banned for deleting garbage. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:28, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Evasion noted. My comment was about you and the first question was completely rhetorical. ―Mandruss ☎ 07:30, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

What evasion? You asked, I answered. And maybe you think fantasizing about murdering someone is funny. Maybe you wouldn't think so if you were the target. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:33, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

What evasion? You failed to respond to the criticism of you, instead deflecting the discussion to someone else's completely unrelated action. Whether you realize it or not, that's an evasion tactic. And you once again demonstrated your inability to hear what was said to you, simply restating the ridiculous premise that Guy Macon drew a cartoon because he was fantasizing about murdering you. ―Mandruss ☎ 07:41, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

My response is that I've got it right and you've got it wrong. Is that clear enough? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:45, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

To Mandruss; Alas, sometimes you get what you ask for. :) You asked "Could you perhaps find some other mindless mud to sling?" and indeed he did. Saying "One thing worse is trying to get the notorious user Betacommand reinstated, while at the same time trying to get a ref desk user banned for deleting garbage" is about as mindless as mudslinging gets. First, it contains at least three complete fabrications. [1] Topic banned is not the same as banned. Medeis / μηδείς has no need to delete what other editors write in order to continue participating on the reference desks. [2] On the Betacommand RfC I !voted "neutral", not "support". [3] An RfC asking Arbcom to make a decision that they promised to make four years ago, and which includes propositions like "keep the ban in place" and "lift the ban" is not trying to lift the ban. In fact, if Medeis / μηδείς gets topic banned and requests that the ban be lifted after a year has gone by I will strongly support lifting her ban per WP:ROPE.

The bigger problem here is that Bugs has completely ignored my request to cite any policy or guideline that supports his false claim that "questions that call for speculation or debate are subject to deletion". Instead he brings up multiple unrelated (and also false) accusations. He is being rude and disrespectful to the community by assuming that we will fall for such a transparent debating tactic. --Guy Macon (talk) 16:11, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

And, Guy, he is not going to stop. Arguing with Bugs about this sort of thing is like feeding a troll, is like wrestling a pig in mud: all it does is get you covered in mud, and the pig enjoys it. So, please, take your own (repeated) advice and be done with it. (Which is logically equivalent do being done with it until Bugs cites the policy you keep asking him to, because he's obviously not going to do that, he's just going to keep evading.) —Steve Summit (talk) 19:09, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Wise words indeed. Thanks! --Guy Macon (talk) 19:39, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

The next time someone else deletes a thread for being debate or speculation, are you going to yell at that user too? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:22, 7 October 2017 (UTC)