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→‎Semi-protected edit request on 23 January 2019: "Kiev" is the former (and now outdated) English spelling. The modern English spelling is "Kyiv."
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"Kiev" is the former (and now outdated) English spelling. The modern English spelling is "Kyiv."&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User:Roman Spinner|Roman Spinner]] <small>[[User talk:Roman Spinner|(talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Roman Spinner|contribs)]]</small> 17:52, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
"Kiev" is the former (and now outdated) English spelling. The modern English spelling is "Kyiv."&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User:Roman Spinner|Roman Spinner]] <small>[[User talk:Roman Spinner|(talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Roman Spinner|contribs)]]</small> 17:52, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
: I am afraid I will be looking for an arbitration enforcement prohibiting you to comment on Kiev vs Kyiv. You manage to disrupt every discussion by endlessly repeating the same mantra which was many times rejected by consensus.--[[User:Ymblanter|Ymblanter]] ([[User talk:Ymblanter|talk]]) 18:07, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Revision as of 18:07, 24 January 2019

Template:Vital article

Former good article nomineeKyiv was a Geography and places good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
August 21, 2005Peer reviewReviewed
May 23, 2006Featured article candidateNot promoted
September 25, 2007Good article nomineeNot listed
Current status: Former good article nominee

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Kiev. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Change website section :"tourism portal" that redirects to https://visitkyiv.travel/ru/

because it is English Wiki, change it to https://visitkyiv.travel/en/

(note, Kyiv is being used in domain name)

 Done--Ymblanter (talk) 17:18, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

FAQ

Perhaps this talkpage could benefit from a FAQ like at Talk:Muhammad and Talk:Barack Obama. At least it's easy to point to when similar questions keep occuring. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:03, 12 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Russian transliteration in the lead

First sentence states "Kiev (/ˈkiːɛf, -ɛv/ KEE-ef, -ev)[9] or Kyiv (Ukrainian: Київ, translit. Kyiv [ˈkɪjiu̯] (listen); Russian: Киев, translit. Kiyev [ˈkʲi(j)ɪf];", claiming that the transliteration is Kiyev, but presents no source. That is in fact not true, the established Russian transliteration of Киев is Kiev, which can be proved by clicking on practically any link or source in the Russian article, for instance http://merjevich.ru/album/kiev, or looking at road signs or any documents in Russia. Wikipedia should follow commonname policy, reliable sources and should not make OR to please some political or other interests. Linhart (talk) 08:49, 13 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Per the transliteration guidelines used on Wikipedia (Wikipedia:RUS, a modification of the BGN/PCGN romanization of Russian) the Russian name Киев is correctly transliterated as "Kiyev". --Khajidha (talk) 13:14, 13 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This is an essay, not a policy or a guideline. It also says that it is used only when there is no widely accepted name, which is absolutely not the case with Kiev. I propose that you either change the text to "Киев, BGN/PCGN translit. Kiyev" or change the Kiyev to Kiev according to common and established transliterated name. Otherwise the text is misleading and POV-pushing. Linhart (talk) 14:01, 13 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Portraying it as "just an essay" isn't correct, since WP:RUS has been around since 2005 and is used for virtually all transliteration here. And transliterating "Киев" as "Kiyev" isn't limited to just BGN/PCGN but is also done in other systems, as can be seen at Romanization of Russian. - Tom | Thomas.W talk 14:22, 13 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No, it is not, this is the only system transliterating it like that. I now found out user Ymblanter changed the correct transliteration on 18 November 2017 without presenting any source. Until then the common established name Kiev was used.Linhart (talk) 15:11, 13 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I did not edit the article on 18 November 2017.--Ymblanter (talk) 15:36, 13 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Linhart: Check things better before blaming anyone for anything. Ymblanter didn't even edit the article on 18 November 2017, and most definitely didn't add the transliteration, since it was already there by then. The first transliteration was added by EricLewan on 3 March 2017, adding "Kijev" as transliteration from Russian (i.e. before then there was no transliteration at all), which was then changed to "Kiyev" by Maczkopeti on on 5 November 2017. And as for there being no other transliteration system using "ye" for "e" when it comes right after another vocal, it is also, according to Romanization of Russian, done in the official transliteration system for road signs in Russia (which would be of relevance here, since it's the name of a city...), and was also used in the 1997 system for transliterating names in Russian passports. - Tom | Thomas.W talk 16:39, 13 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It is also a transliteration system accepted in Britain. In general, it is always better to use "Kiyev", because the English "Kiev" and the Russian "Kiev/Kiyev" are different words that sound differently.--Paul Siebert (talk) 20:55, 13 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I was using "guideline" in the general English usage sense, not the specific Wikipedia sense. Yes, it is true that we use this system of transliteration for names when there is no accepted English form. But, the point you are missing is that an "accepted English form" is, by definition, not a transliteration. Therefor, we cannot say that Киев transliterates to "Kiev". The form "Kiyev" is the transliteration that would be used if there were no accepted English name and is, thus, the appropriate form to put in the transliteration spot in the intro. --Khajidha (talk) 16:17, 13 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
As near as I can tell, the only problem with the intro is that it links to the articles on the transcription of Ukrainian and Russian instead of to the description of the actual system used.--Khajidha (talk) 16:37, 13 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I know, no universally accepted romanization systems currently exist. In different romanisation systems, it is either "Kiev" or "Kiyev", but the latter is phonetically more accurate.--Paul Siebert (talk) 20:47, 13 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Ymblanter:, Sorrry, it was Tunyk, you reverted it and then Kiev was again removed on 28 November. My point is that Киев - Kiev was just fine from the beginning until late 2017, when someone decided it to remove it from the infobox. Tom, that is not true: https://media.lonelyplanet.com/news/production/2014/10/Cyrillic-signs.jpg and the passport standard you mentioned is obsolete. Yes, Kiyev would be used if there was no common established transliteration, but it is, it is Kiev. The BGN/PCGN is the only sistem using Kiyev, so change the link to BGN/PCGN romanization of Russian if you want to keep the current text. Everything else is POV. Now a random user would think that Киев transliterates to Kiyev, which this article suggests, but it is simply (in 99%) not true. Paul Siebert, yeah I know that, that is why I think the common transliteration should be used, not the one that "sounds better" that is OR. Linhart (talk) 21:10, 13 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Linhart: I apparently didn't explain it well enough, but before the transliteration I mentioned in my post above was added in March of 2017 there was no transliteration at all of the Cyrillic name in the lead, neither the Russian one nor the Ukrainian one. That is it did not say Kiev then. And there hasn't been any such transliteration either since at least 2010, except for a brief period of edit-warring in 2012 when the transliteration alternated between Kiev and Kiyev, before being removed altogether again. I have of course not checked every edit all the way back to 2010, but I have made half a dozen or more random checks per year all the way back to 2010, and none of the pages I checked, except for that brief period in 2012, hade any transliteration at all of the Cyrillic names in the lead. - Tom | Thomas.W talk 22:21, 13 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, and the picture of a sign you posted a link to, do you have any proof for that being a roadsign in Russia? - Tom | Thomas.W talk 22:30, 13 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No, it is in Sierra Leone. Of course it is in Russia. https://www.lonelyplanet.com/news/2014/10/22/moscow-gets-transliterated-street-signs/ The (common) transliteration was in the infobox until 2017 when it was added to the lead as Kijev/Kiyev and then in November removed from the infobox. Linhart (talk) 22:35, 13 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know which transliteration you refer to as "the common transliteration", but if you refer to "Kiev" it was not "in the lead until 2017" (and there wasn't any other transliteration either...). - Tom | Thomas.W talk 22:38, 13 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It was in the Infobox! There was no transliteration in the lead before 2017! The exact date is less relevant and I again appologise to Ymblanter.Linhart (talk) 22:41, 13 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Linhart: Sheesh. You start a discussion about "Russian transliteration in the lead", we discuss transliteration in the lead, various claims of yours are proven wrong, and then you switch to discussing the infobox. This is beginning to look like just plain trolling. - Tom | Thomas.W talk 08:04, 14 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You were the one proven wrong, about road signs etc. I said that the transliteration in the lead is wrong, I explained that it was added in 2017 without presenting any source and that the correct transliteration was used in the infobox before that. From the start on I am arguing that someone has put a wrong (or at least not the common and established) transliteration in the lead. My only mistake was the name of the editor, because I am not familiar with the old revisions system, which is why I already apologised. Linhart (talk) 15:27, 14 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nonsense. You insisted on there having been a long-standing transliteration to Kiev in the lead, and accused Ymblanter of having changed it to Kiyev, but were proven wrong on both points. - Tom | Thomas.W talk 15:37, 14 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
So I wrote 18 instead of 28, geez, a horrible mistake. And I never claimed that there was a long-standing transliteration to Kiev in the lead, I claimed that the one currently in the lead is wrong and I tried to present an evidence, that a correct transliteration was used in the article for years. But instead of debating that, you focused on a formality, if I missed a date for one number, so I do not know who is beginning to look like trolling. You never admitted your mistakes, so it is getting pointless. Linhart (talk) 07:33, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Total BS. See my comment below. - Tom | Thomas.W talk 08:45, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Why do we need any transliteration when a phonetic transcription is available? What is the reason to provide a Russian name if Russian is not an official language in Ukraine? If Russian name is provided, why there is no Belorussian, Moldavian, Hungarian etc names? In my opinion, the first sentence of the article should be:

"Kiev (/ˈkiːɛf, -ɛv/ KEE-ef, -⁠ev) (Ukrainian: Київ, romanized: Kyiv [ˈkɪjiu̯] ⓘ is the capital and largest city of Ukraine, located in the north central part of the country on the Dnieper."

It sould be clear that "Kiev" is the English word, and "Kyiv" is a transliteration of the Ukrainian name. With regard to Russian "Kiev/Kiyev", who cares how other nations call the Ukrainian capital? Had Russian been a second official language in Ukraine, we would need to add that, but since it isn't, no Russian name should be in the lead. Moreover, as I already noted before, the whole problem with "Kiev/Kyiv" is not that the English "Kiev" differs from Ukrainian "Kyiv". The situation when the English name of some European city differs from its domestic name is normal: Prague - Praha, Warsaw - Warszawa, Moscow - Moskva, Belgrade - Beograd, Vienna - Wien, Lisbon - Lisboa, Rome - Roma, etc Nobody cares, but, for some reason, Ukrainian users (or the users who have close connection to Ukraine) are persistently attempting to replace the traditional English word with a transliteration of the Ukrainian word. Why? The only reasonable explanation is that the English word "Kiev" looks like one of two transliterations of the Russian word "Киев". Had the English name been, for example, "Кі́eu" (a transliterated Belorussian name), I am sure, that caused no objections. My conclusion is that the whole discussion is just a continuation of the Ukrainian-Russian conflict in the sphere of toponymy. However, since Wikipedia is not supposed to take sides in political disputes, I propose to change the opening statement as I showed above and close this dispute.--Paul Siebert (talk) 22:48, 13 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the new lead sentence. I only have to add that Kyiv is not a domestic name as such (like Praha), it is (also) a domestic English variant of the name, it is used when Ukrainians are writing in English, so it is at the same time the commonly used Ukrainian transliteration of Київ and an English word used almost exclusively in Ukraine. Oh yes, I do not know if it is important (according to policies), but some two thirds of the city speaks Russian.Linhart (talk) 23:00, 13 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
We add the Russian forms for this and many Ukrainian cities because Russophones make up a large percentage of Ukraine's population and because English speakers are still likely to encounter Russian forms for many of these names, especially if they are reading historical accounts from before about 2000. It's a courtesy to our readers since Russian is a significant language in Ukraine, both at the present time and historically. As an example, I was going to Ukraine in 2007 and would be working in Rivne. I couldn't find any information on the internet until a friend told me to search for "Rovno" instead. That's why we include the Russian forms following the Ukrainian ones. --Taivo (talk) 10:43, 14 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Taivo, that sounds logically, but, since we definitely have a problem with some users who are not feeling comfortable with the fact than one (out of two) transliteration of the Russian "Киев" is identical to the English "Kiev", maybe, we should include both transliterations? Something like this:
"Kiev (/ˈkiːɛf, -ɛv/ KEE-ef, -⁠ev)[1] (Ukrainian: Київ, romanized: Kyiv [ˈkɪjiu̯] ⓘ; Russian: Киев, romanized: Kiyev/Kiev [ˈkʲi(j)ɪf]) is the capital and largest city of Ukraine, located in the north central part of the country on the Dnieper."
I also don't think an Old Slav name is needed in the lead: noone speaks Old Slav now, and we have a separate section for the historical name.
I've just checked, other articles (except Riga) do not give old historical names for capitals in the first sentence of the lead. --Paul Siebert (talk) 16:11, 14 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Kiev". Dictionary.com.
Then include the correct transliteration, the one you will find in Russia. That will help our readers the most. Linhart (talk) 15:30, 14 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Linhart, no one cares what you have to say anymore. Your false accusations against Ymbanter mean either 1) you are not paying enough attention to be a competent editor or 2) you do not care about truth. Either way, your participation here would not be desirable. --Khajidha (talk) 15:51, 14 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Khajidha, I don't know if you are factually correct, but the style of your post is not appropriate: please, discuss contributions, not a contributor. It would be better if you rephrased it to make it less offensive.--Paul Siebert (talk) 16:11, 14 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You know I actually agree with this. Why would we have so much transliteration in the lead? It should say Kiev followed by its Ukrainian spelling and pronunciation and that's it. Further down under names it can go into more detail of Russian and Slavic origins and speech. This is why wikipedia guidelines tell us one or two names in the lead and if more, take it to the main body. This isn't quite the same as multiple names but the end result is the same...Messy. It clutters the lead badly and while I side with English Kiev, the rest should be moved. Fyunck(click) (talk) 19:10, 14 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
So, it seems that "for some reason, Ukrainian users (or the users who have close connection to Ukraine) are persistently attempting to replace the traditional English word with a transliteration of the Ukrainian word. Why? The only reasonable explanation is that the English word "Kiev" looks like one of two transliterations of the Russian word "Киев". Had the English name been, for example, "Кі́eu" (a transliterated Belorussian name), I am sure, that caused no objections. My conclusion is that the whole discussion is just a continuation of the Ukrainian-Russian conflict in the sphere of toponymy". If it is those Ukrainian nationalists whom George H. W, Bush condemned in his Chicken Kyiv speech (which redirects to Chicken Kiev speech) who are the only ones insisting on the English use of "Kyiv", then the U.S. State Department, European Union's English-language press releases, Lonely Planet, Miami Herald, Google Maps, Yahoo Maps, Bing Maps, etc, must be all run by Ukrainian nationalists since they're taking Ukraine's side in the sphere of toponomy.    Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 06:14, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Repeating the same silly arguments over and over again, like a parrot, isn't helping your case. - Tom | Thomas.W talk 08:45, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Roman Spinner, you seem to think that if five people in a room of a hundred stand up, then they have the majority opinion and we must listen to them. It doesn't matter how loudly the five shout and stamp their feet and demand that they are the most important voices in the room, the 95 still represent common English usage. Come back when the ratio of major English-language media using Kyiv has reached 50% instead of the current <10%. Then you'll have something of Wikipedia value to present. --Taivo (talk) 09:39, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
What helps my case is debunking the parroting of false premises and equivalencies, such as the insistence that when English speakers call the Ukrainian capital by its Russian name, Kiev, it is analogous to English speakers calling the Russian capital Moscow or the Polish capital Warsaw. That purported equivalency is based on a completely false premise — "Kiev" is not an English name — it is the capital's Russian name adopted into English, while "Moscow" and "Warsaw" are purely English names — no other language uses those names for the Russian and Polish capitals.
The notion that the English name for the Ukrainian capital is "Kiev", while the Russian names for it are "Kiyev", "Kee-yev" or any other transliteration form is another false premise. If that was the case, then the Ukrainian name for its capital would not be "Kyiv", but "kih-yeev" or "ky-yiv" or some other uncommon transliteration.    Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 15:47, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hypocrisy of the worst kind. You don't seem to have any problems with København being called by its German name in Ukraine, Копенга́ген, or Beijing still being called Пекі́н in Ukraine, only with Kiev being called by what you, erroneously, consider to be its Russian name in English. Do you really expect others here to take you seriously? - Tom | Thomas.W talk 15:59, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Correct.--Paul Siebert (talk) 22:14, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Roman Spinner, when some word looks totally identical in who different languages, that may be just a coincidence: for example, the English "gift" and the German "gift". Your example, "Moscow" and "Warsaw" is not working: following your logic, there are separate words in English for Polish, Russian, Czech, Italian, Austrian, Portugal capitals, but German or French capitals have no English names, and English speakers have to use German and French words, accordingly. Don't you find that illogical? Obviously, there is a different explanation for that apparent paradox: the words "Warsaw", "Rome", "Paris", "Berlin", "Prague", "Moscow" and "Kiev" are English words, however, the English words "Paris" and "Berlin" coincide with the French and German names, and the English word "Kiev" coincides with one (out of two) transcriptions of the Russian name.
This my claim is fully supported by English dictionaries: thus, Webster says "Kiev" is the English name of the city, and "Kyiv" is the Ukrainian name; it says nothing about borrowing the word from Russian.--Paul Siebert (talk) 18:33, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You are missing the point, the English name Kiev is not said to be different from the Russian name because we transliterate the Russian one a certain way, it is different because English is not Russian. Kiev is an Engliah name because it has been used as such for centuries, its derivation is irrelevant. --Khajidha (talk) 17:16, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Agree.--Paul Siebert (talk) 22:14, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"Kiev" had its origin in Common East Slavic (centuries before there was either "Russian" or "Ukrainian" [or "Belarusian" or "Rusyn"]) and was borrowed into English sometime within the last two or three centuries. But saying that "Kiev" is not an English word is like saying that "baptize" is not an English word. So what if it's borrowed. About half of the English vocabulary is borrowed from some other language (including "Budapest", "Berlin", "Paris", etc.). These are all English words because they are common names in English. And on another note, here is the entry for "Kiev" in Webster's New Geographical Dictionary (1980), from long before any political motivation for either "Kiev" or "Kyiv" existed: "Kiev or Russ. Kiyev or Ukrainian Kiyiv..." And from the World Factbook (CIA, 1997-1998), "Capital: Kiev (Kyyiv)". --Taivo (talk) 18:08, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
And a couple more: Hammond Centennial World Atlas (1999), "Kiev", but "Kyyivska" as the oblast name; Rand McNally Deluxe Illustrated Atlas of the World (1991), "Kijev (Kiev)"; Rand McNally Portrait World Atlas (1998) "Kyïv (Kiev)". So there are many different transliterations of Ukraine's capital over the last 20 years: both from Russian and from Ukrainian. The notion that "Kiev" is the definitive Russian transliteration from 200 years ago is simply not based on fact. "Kiev" is an English name now (like "Berlin", "Paris", "Oslo", "Istanbul", etc.), no matter what its origin long before any of us, or anyone we ever knew, were born. --Taivo (talk) 19:05, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Taivo, even if there were some definite transliteration of the Russian word "Киев", that would not change the fact that the English word "Kiev" is the English word: thus the English "Berlin" is totally identical to the German "Berlin", but it is an English word, not a German one.--Paul Siebert (talk) 19:20, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I totally agree. --Taivo (talk) 19:23, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I am ending it, obviously I am not competent and my participation on Wikipedia is not desirable. I did not know you have to be unmistakable to edit Wikipedia. You must all be so great, never making a mistake in thousands of edits, always pressing the right key. PS: Oh, it was Ymblanter, actually I was right, I clicked the wrong key, it was the 28 November not 18 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kiev&direction=next&oldid=812602642 So I expect an apology. Linhart (talk) 07:28, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Linhart: Even more BS from you. No, Ymblanter did not do what you accuse him of doing, neither on 28 November 2017 nor on any other date, as can be clearly seen by anyone who, unlike you, knows how to read page history and diffs (the link you provided only shows what the article looked like on that date, not who had done what...). So it is, once again, you who owe Ymblanter an apology, not the other way around. - Tom | Thomas.W talk 08:45, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment if there's an annoying amount of transliteration in the lead, consider the "solution" in David. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:26, 17 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Why are all of those there? Seems like the modern English name and the ancient Hebrew are all that are needed. --Khajidha (talk) 15:46, 17 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Talk:David#Introductory_note. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:33, 17 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment so all these English-speaking countries use Kyiv. Make sure to tell them they all don't know own language. or maybe... it's actually Kyiv ? 91.124.250.6 (talk) 18:05, 23 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
1. US Board on Geo. Names (BGN) - https://geonames.usgs.gov/
2. UK https://www.gov.uk/world/organisations/british-embassy-kyiv
3. AU Australia https://ukraine.embassy.gov.au/kyiv/home.html
4. CA canadainternational.gc.ca/ukraine/index.aspx?lang=eng - Kyiv
5. NZ New Zealand government portal https://safetravel.govt.nz/kyiv
6. IE dfa.ie/embassies/irish-embassies-abroad/europe/ukraine/ - Kyiv
7. IN Embassy of India, Ukraine eoiukraine.gov.in/index.php - also Kyiv
"All these English-speaking countries" do not use "Kyiv". Their governments do because they have to conduct diplomatic relations with Ukraine. The common people and media outlets, which represent not just a few politicians at the top, but 99.9999% of the country's English-speaking population, still use "Kiev". So your argument is baseless for Wikipedia's purposes, which rely on common English usage and not any government practices. --Taivo (talk) 18:11, 23 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
so you mean Ukraine forced ALL these English speaking countries to dismiss English language principles and own heritage and all of them agreed as one?) haha. rudicilious) it's Kyiv and will be Kyiv. Russian paid wiki editors and troll brigades can only postpone it from happening. but it it will happen and the change is irreversible. Слава Україні — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.124.250.6 (talk) 18:29, 23 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It is standard diplomatic protocol to use the city names requested by the host coumtry. But you seem to have missed the fact that the US government lists Kiev as conventional. You know, "conventional", as in "what is normally done".--Khajidha (talk) 18:38, 23 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Also, English usage is not set by governments. English is not a regulated language. When writing in English, most style guides actually recommend NOT following government usage.--Khajidha (talk) 18:44, 23 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hahah, protocol?))) You Russians are funny. Really, only svinosobaki can think that government (of 7 different countries) can change own language policies (whaaaat?) due to request. seems like KGB needs better editors now) 91.124.250.6 (talk) 18:47, 23 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Your comments about "language policy" are nonsensical. In the United States (and probably in those other countries) it is simply diplomatic protocol to ask what names a country wishes to have itself and its capital referred to as and for diplomatic personnel to use those forms. So they aren't "changing" their language policies, they are following them. However, such government usage is only binding on the diplomatic service and any other government agencies that choose to follow that usage. The US government cannot even force all of its agencies to use Kyiv and most assuredly would be completely ignored and laughed at as delusional if they tried to mandate such usage by the general public.

Can someone check this IP? I think it is banned user User:SlavaUkrainiGeroyamSlava. --Khajidha (talk) 18:50, 23 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It's clearly a troll (the IP address is from Lvivska Oblast) and probably a sockpuppet of someone. User:SlavaUkrainiGeroyamSlava though had an IP from Kyiv. --Taivo (talk) 19:25, 23 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 23 January 2019

Change Kiev to Kyiv, Ukraine government officially started campaign called #KyivNotKiev. The point is - Kiev is a russian spelling, Kyiv is a transliteration from UKRAINIAN name to English. It's very important to ukrainians. MaJIbIu (talk) 16:09, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. See the many, many previous discussions on this topic, mostly located in the archives at Talk:Kiev/naming. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 16:16, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Kiev is the English spelling and English spelling is all that matters.--Khajidha (talk) 16:28, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Kiev" is the former (and now outdated) English spelling. The modern English spelling is "Kyiv."    Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 17:52, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am afraid I will be looking for an arbitration enforcement prohibiting you to comment on Kiev vs Kyiv. You manage to disrupt every discussion by endlessly repeating the same mantra which was many times rejected by consensus.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:07, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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