Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 November 9

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November 9

This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on November 9, 2019.

Human exceptionality

• Human exceptionality → [[:{{{target}}}]]  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] ComplexRational (talk) 16:34, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Flo, Albania

• Flo, Albania → Floq  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Neither of the entries on the disambiguation page at Floq indicate that they are known as "Flo". Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 15:01, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Mitchell Hope

• Mitchell Hope → Descendants (2015 film)#Cast  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

There is nothing in the current redirect target about this actor other than he played a role. This is not the only role he plays. See this. It is better for this to be deleted and leave a red link when linked than redirect to something with no information about the actor. Geraldo Perez (talk) 05:48, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Salt-tolerant grass

• Salt-tolerant grass → Ammophila (plant)  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Not mentioned at target. Salt tolerant grass is a description, not a specific taxon. Hyphenated "salt-tolerant" is an unlikely search term unless there is some entity that is pushing "Salt-tolerant Grass" as an Official-common Name of Ammophila (Wikipedia prefers to ignore idiosyncratic capitals, but perhaps not hyphens). However, I can find no evidence of this as a term particularly associated with Ammophila. Plantdrew (talk) 05:41, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Untitled Avengers film

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was Withdrawn (non-admin closure) Mysticair667537 (talk) 08:12, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

• Untitled Avengers film → Avengers: Endgame  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Implausible redirect, nobody is going to use this search term for a film that they clearly already know the name of. Was almost deleted in previous RFD, but was kept only because of one single keep vote that argued that it should be kept because IMDB originally had the title as "Untitled Avengers film" but that's not a valid argument. IMDB is not a reliable source. Mysticair667537 (talk) 03:13, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Previous RfDs for this redirect and similar redirects:

• Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 February 14 § "Untitled" redirects that now have titles – result of previous RfD

Didn't know it was a working title.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

American Indian history

• American Indian history → History of Native Americans in the United States  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]

• Native american history → History of Native Americans in the United States  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]

• Native American history → History of Native Americans in the United States  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]

• History of Native Americans → History of Native Americans in the United States  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Given that native Americans aren't confined to the US, wouldn't it make sense for these redirects to go somewhere else? Native American and American Indian are both dab pages, so one solution is to create a dab page here as well. Another is to retarget to the article with the broadest scope: Indigenous peoples of the Americas#History. – Uanfala (talk) 02:28, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Dell Financial Services

• Dell Financial Services → Dell  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Not mentioned anywhere in the target article. Searched for "Dell Financial Services," "Financial services," and "DFS." At some point, the Dell article may be updated to include a Financial Services section; however, as of right now, seems to be too soon. Redirect was created less than a year ago, possibly by a single editor who tired of typing in "/wiki/Dell_Financial_Services" and coming up with the no page exists page. Doug Mehus (talk) 00:33, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

5 demands

• 5 demands → 2019 Hong Kong protests#Objectives  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

This is way too ambiguous of a title for a redirect. Internet search results show that while this phrase has been used in connection with the Hong Kong protests, it also has been used the outcome of recent farmers' protests in India [1], recent disputes in Nigeria [2], the 2018 Google walkouts [3], the 2018 Arizona teachers' strike [4] and likely many more. Given how broad this term is, I think deletion is preferable to disambiguation in order to just let the internal search engine do the work. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 00:28, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

• Keep: Before voicing an opinion, it should be mentioned that the spelled out version, five demands, also redirects to the same article. With that being said, although the phrase is core to the Hong Kong protests, the connection was difficult to make using Wikipedia's internal search alone. It was only upon Googling the phrase that I found out what it was about, where the first thirteen results are about the protests. This gap in clarity was the reason I made the redirect; to make Wikipedia's search as clear as Google's, and why I'm defending its utility here. Googol30 (talk) 01:19, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

🕵️

• 🕵️ → Detective  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Delete as non-useful emoji redirect, analogous case to Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 September 10#💁. Character does not exist in target article. Zerach (talk) 20:26, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

• Keep. Per Emojipedia, the name of this emoji is "Detective" and it targets the article named Detective so this is completely unambiguous. This is not analogous to the linked discussion because it was found there that 💁 was ambiguous. -- Tavix ^(talk) 20:42, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
• Strong delete per User:Zerach and nom's stated rationale. In no way would I, or arguably anyone, accidentally search Wikipedia by emoji. In fact, this could arguably be a strong case for speedy deletion. We may also want to ban the use of emoji redirects the wikiworld. Doug Mehus (talk) 20:50, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

• We are specifically discussing 💁, not emojis in general. Your proposal would require a wider discussion, probably at WT:CSD. I'm not sure why you think emojis would only be searched "accidentally". Emojis are widely available via smartphones, and so is Wikipedia. It's easy to type an emoji into Wikipedia's search engine and learn what the emoji means (in this case, "detective"), and at the same time one can then learn about detectives by reading that article. -- Tavix ^(talk) 21:22, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

Delete. I put 🕵️ there not knowing that it also included the Variation Selector. It was a mistake. Pacingpal (talk) 02:26, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

• Wait. Is this discussion about 🕵️ or 💁? Because the first one was a mistake. The second one was put there because I thought people were going to search it, so I thought why not make it redirect to Emoji? Pacingpal (talk) 02:38, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
  • @Pacingpal: I patrolled both redirects you created, and approved 💁→Emoji because it appears in the article to which it redirects (the redirect deleted in the linked deletion discussion had a different target). This discussion relates to 🕵️, which doesn't appear in the Emoji article so it doesn't make sense to redirect there. Zerach (talk) 03:35, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
    • So what's the problem with it targeting detective, as it does now? -- Tavix ^(talk) 13:27, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
      • This version, 🕵️, has a Variation Selector-16. I put it there by mistake. Pacingpal (talk) 13:36, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
        • Ah, gotcha. Given that it's an invisible character, do you know how I can verify that? -- Tavix ^(talk) 13:51, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
          • You can copy and paste it into something that identifies a string’s code points. I confirm that it contains VS16. Note that U+1F575 SLEUTH OR SPY has [:Emoji_Presentation=No:] which means Unicode explicitly recommends using VS16 to make it an emoji. It is therefore appropriate for this redirect to exist. Gorobay (talk) 18:50, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: WP:INVOLVED relist to close an old log page.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Tavix ^(talk) 23:43, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

• So there's a hidden character in this one? It's not just the emoji? --BDD (talk) 13:47, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
  • It is just the emoji. The redirect’s title consists of two characters: <U+1F575 SLEUTH OR SPY, U+FE0F VARIATION SELECTOR-16>. Together, they form a single emoji. Without the second character, Unicode recommends rendering it as a simple dingbat (as in Webdings) instead of an emoji. Gorobay (talk) 19:58, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

  Thanks for the explanation. I'm a keep then. I don't think there's ambiguity here. --BDD (talk) 20:54, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Deryck C. 10:27, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

• Keep per BDD. Every unicode character outside the private use area should be a blue link if there is a suitable target as they are very useful search terms. There is no question that the current target is the most suitable for this emoji. Thryduulf (talk) 15:03, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: One more try to attempt clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Steel1943 (talk) 00:16, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Template:Rfl

• Template:Rfl → Template:Reflist  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

This should redirect to the capitalized version at Template:RFL, which has existed since 2012, rather than a lazy shortcut for {{Reflist}}. I’ve noticed this also causes some confusion as some editors, not knowing what “rfl” means, have added the Reflist template in the same article. Then there’s also this one: Template:R fl. Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 02:06, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

• Delete. I don't think we need a template shortcut for either target here: {{Reflist}} is already short and it's only ever added once per article, so there's really no case for a typing aid here (and if the shortcut exists, we'll have to keep an eye on uses and replace them as they come). Similarly for {{RFL}} – the benefits of this template as a typing aid are negligible, and its ambiguous name can easily cause confusion. – Uanfala (talk) 11:30, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
• Retarget to the capitalised {{RFL}} per nom. I don't see any benefit in deletion. PC78 (talk) 13:14, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
• Keep - This redirect has been in force for months, and is past the point of changing, just like {{RE}} was. --Jax 0677 (talk) 16:20, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
  • @Jax 0677: You must be misremembering Template:RE. Per Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 April 3#Template:RE, that redirect was retargeted to Template:Reply to. -- Tavix ^(talk) 16:48, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
  • 1) 6 months is not a long time; 2) as you are the only one who has used it (minimally at that), it has not been used in force. Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 19:05, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
    • Reply - @Tavix:, {{RE}} was made a long time ago, and IMHO, was past the point of changing. --Jax 0677 (talk) 12:48, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
• Do not keep, the status quo is too confusing. I'm not bothered either way if it's retargeted or deleted, I don't think it will matter much. -- Tavix ^(talk) 16:48, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
• Delete per Uanfala, and just type the 4 extra characters. While this could be a legitimate redirect to Template:RFL, its use for a different purpose means that retargeting right now could be a source of confusion and mistakes. It's better to delete the redirect for now and let anyone who would use it (if anyone other than Jax) select between {{Reflist}} and {{RFL}}. -- Black Falcon ^(talk) 17:43, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
• Retarget to Template:RFL, considering that doing so is harmless and also considering that Template:Rfl has 0 transclusions, and can thus be retargeted immediately without breaking anything. Steel1943 (talk) 06:03, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
• Delete. The redirect has only been there for a few months and only has one transclusion. I don't think it's past the point of changing. The existence of multiple competing targets make it an unsuitable title for a template shortcut. Deryck C. 11:52, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
• Delete This redirect is potentially confusing, only four letters shorter than {{reflist}} and used practically nowhere. Not a very active user (talk) 15:41, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
• Retarget per nom. I see no benefit to deletion. --BDD (talk) 17:01, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
• I've listed this at WP:ANRFC since most of the RfD regulars have given an opinion in this discussion. Deryck C. 12:33, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: WP:INVOLVED relist to close old log day.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Steel1943 (talk) 00:14, 9 November 2019 (UTC)