Talk:Katy Perry

impact of Katy Perry

Hi, I would like for you to create an "impact" section which talks about how Mrs. Perry is an iconic, influential figure.

Here are some sources that you can look at: ADTN1210 (talk) 5:31 PM February 25, 2021 CST

References

Personal life ?

Is an RFC the reason why there isn't a "Personal life" section for Perry yet? I'm confused, every time I read this article I always never see a personal life section. I think it's definitely important to have details of her fundamentalist upbringings, which influenced her first debut album, and also her exes as they've been the topic of some of her songs. Would appreciate comments on this whenever anyone's available. Thank you."Pop pills now we Shanghai!"^{(talk to me!~)} 11:31, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

There was one until this article got reorganized in 2014. You'll find upbringing in the "Early life and family" subsection of "Life and career" and past relationships are interspersed throughout other subsections. The details got shifted around because there are exes who in some way worked with her professionally (which helps keep such details closer together), plus a separate "Personal life" section can easily become a magnet for fancruft, gossip, and speculation. Reinstating that here would basically be asking for trouble and getting bloated with these things or other excessive details is not at all a risk worth taking. I'm fully certain having "Personal life" would do more bad than good in this case. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 13:39, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

I think the lack of a personal life is just.. in general, quite confusing. As an avid Wikipedia reader, I shouldn't have to sift through details about her career, which I am not looking for, to see her current relationship with Orlando and first child. It just makes the article hard to search for what you're looking for. I think simply, a "personal life" section saying her previous relationships and her new status as a mother is important. In all my time in Wikipedia reading articles, I've never seen details about children and what chart positions an album had in the same section, as a reader it is extremely confusing and quite aggravating. I agree that fancruft and gossip *can* be a genuine problem, but adding a personal life section would probably have more positive when it comes to again details about her relationship and child, rather than a lack of a personal life section at all. Is there any way we can get a consensus for this? "Pop pills now we Shanghai!"^{(talk to me!~)} 12:41, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Just for the record, the setup of incorporating relationships, children, and other details within an overarching "Life and career" section was already used for articles like Britney Spears, Madonna, and Michael Jackson before it got implemented here, and they still have such styles to this day. In fact, those were the basis I used when proposing the change; I was extensively working with a someone else to revamp this page at the time and that user agreed it was a good idea. Before your post, the only qualm with the restructuring that I can recall was one other editor not liking how it once simply listed all events in chronological order as that came off like a diary, suggesting instead to change the paragraphs so more closely connected matters would be kept together within the subsections (and the page subsequently was revised accordingly). There also is "first marriage" in the 2010-2012 section's title as well as "motherhood" within the 2019–2021 one, which should help make such locations easier. This also helps avoid unnecessary repetition of professional work with her exes. All in all, I still am very much against restoring a separate "Personal life" section when the negatives of having one outweigh any potential positives. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 13:32, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Sexuality is another important detail that could be very well explained in a personal life: Perry explains herself as not heterosexual and has had sex with women. (Her words, not mine.) [1] Yet nothing about this is said in the article.. which is why again I believe a personal life is important. Again *as a reader* in my personal opinion it is really confusing and again in my opinion, even if you do make it easier to find, relationships and children shouldn't be intertwined with album chart positions or Hot 100 #1s. Thank you. "Pop pills now we Shanghai!"^{(talk to me!~)} 14:32, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

That link admittedly was something I hadn't seen before. This aspect of her is probably best suited for the LGBT paragraph of "Politics" or 2007–2009 where "I Kissed a Girl" and its lyrics are discussed (I see she mentioned the track when discussing sexuality). I've placed it within the former. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 15:34, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

• Agree that Personal Life should be added. It is of general interest of such public figure. Zeddedm (talk) 01:24, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

• I still oppose restoring one for the reasons mentioned above. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 04:19, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

(A)

Hey @SNUGGUMS:, was wondering if it'd be okay to say that (A) was influenced by a more gothic rock / alt rock sound (The Box and Fingerprints come to mind) and is much more stylistically different from her main pop sound nowadays (although she does return to this a bit with 2010's Circle The Drain.) Especially in the "1999-2006" section. This could also be added not only to this article but also One Of The Boys. For a good reference for this type of "unreleased album" stuff, look at Blackout (Britney Spears Album) and how they reference The Original Doll.

The only thing keeping me from adding it in is not that many good sources, but I still feel like it's worth adding in as it's honestly super interesting. (There's an article about it with great detail on a Katy Perry fan wiki here), but since that's a fan wiki it of course doesn't hold up to Wikipedia standards. Thanks! shanghai.^{talk to me} 12:52, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure about that when 1) that's not a formal album title 2) it was never officially released. It of course is easier to focus on actually released material due to the higher quantity of usable references. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 14:39, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

@SNUGGUMS: there's a lot of good sources on (a). for instance, the part of me documentary does mention a. her time with ballard, b. writing 100~ songs for said album, and c. namedropping two songs directly from the album, diamond and the box. It's definitely notable enough to be included if its included in Perry's own documentary shanghai.^{talk to me} 13:28, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Again, her shelved record never officially had that name (or any other as far as I know). The way you use this dubbing gives a false impression that (A) was in fact the title she planned to give it. Anyway, not much appears to be known about its content aside from how Ballard was involved, KP worked on that in between the Katy Hudson and One of the Boys (OOTB) albums, the plan was to distribute sometime in 2004/2005 (I'm not sure of an exact release date), and how at least "Thinking of You" was meant for that before getting added to the OOTB tracklist while "Simple" got added to the soundtrack of The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants (the latter of which is already mentioned). There could be others that I missed. With that in mind, all I could plausibly foresee being added without bloating the page is how certain tracks meant for her 2002–2006 work got included elsewhere (with "Long Shot" and "I Do Not Hook Up" being given to Kelly Clarkson for All I Ever Wanted and Clarkson is listed as an artist she co-wrote something for). SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 15:33, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

@SNUGGUMS: Update, through some sleuthing on Twitter, I found that Fingerprints was actually going to be the official planned title for the 2007 album that was eventually reworked into One of the Boys. I found this video of Perry in November 2006 where she said it was Fingerprints. I hope this is a clear enough source? I'll try adding this info in after I'm done with class. shanghai.^{talk to me} 09:02, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

That's probably best suited for the OOTB article. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 13:29, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Scratch that; I initially misread your comment and thought it was saying something about how it became a song title for that album. Good find indeed! SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 15:15, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

@SNUGGUMS:  Thank you very much! <3 shanghai.^{talk to me} 15:36, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Sure thing :) SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 17:59, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Semi Protected Edit Request about Las Vegas Residency

Could you add the name of the nightclub "Zouk" to this sentence: Perry will begin to host a residency named "Play" at Resorts World Las Vegas on December 29, 2021.[261] New version: Perry will begin to host a residency named "Play" at Zouk Nightclub located at Resorts World Las Vegas on December 29, 2021.[261] Thanks.Zeddedm (talk) 01:29, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Where did this detail come from? I can't seem to find it anywhere in searches for her upcoming residency. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 04:27, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Check this [2] and [3].Zeddedm (talk) 00:42, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Unless I'm missing something, these only indicate Tiesto and Zedd will be part of the Zouk Nightclub part of Resorts World in Vegas; niether state or even suggest Katy will have shows in it. Both links are also from before she formally announced anything and just were speculating about her future anyway. If KP is in fact part of that and not just the general Resorts World, then somebody can implement this once references specifically mentioning it are found. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 01:03, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

There are lot's of news about this, just do a Google search. Here are more [4] and [5]. Her first show will be on Dec 29, 2021 according to [6]. Are you saying that it is not indicated that the show would be at Zouk, and rather at some other venue? Hmm maybe I was wrong about that. Just checked the Zouk website and cannot see Katy Perry in upcoming events [7]. So ignore my request.Zeddedm (talk) 03:48, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I just meant there's no sign of her performing at Zouk. Another venue currently sounds more likely. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 04:32, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Finding a new image for the infobox

Apparently the 2019 Macy's Meet and Greet image was deleted due to license laundering, what a shame. I've been scouring around a couple of sites, trying to find a better non-copyrighted image for the infobox, but all of the options I have found are iffy at best.

• Never Worn White music video reupload from the Vimeo of the director. I thought about this but then went against it because Capitol probably owns the copyright to this music video, not the director.
• Met Gala 2019 from Cosmopolitan UK, which was released under a CC license. However, the photo of Perry that I was able to get was overly yellow, kind of unflattering and in a bad angle. Could still be usable, though.
• Met Gala 2018 which was actually already uploaded to Commons here. It is kind of blurry though.
• Grammys 2017 which also was uploaded to commons here but there's two fingers in her face and the other frames I could get from the same video are far away. Oof.

Help would be appreciated, I'm checking multiple sites to see if any of them released any recent Katy content under a CC license. There was actually a round of video interviews with Perry from several media outlets to promote Play but none of them were released under CC. *cries in pain* shanghai.^{talk to me} 03:36, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

I feel the same way about that Macy's Meet and Greet pic. It was quite nice! Music video screenshots are definitely copyrighted and therefore out-of-the-question here, especially when many free pictures exist. I'd say File:Katy Perry 2019 by Glenn Francis.jpg (what's currently used) or one of its alternate crops would be our best bet unless somebody can get a better shot from the 2019 Met Gala. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 03:49, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

@SNUGGUMS: This may not be the most ~encyclopedic~ way to say it but I don't like that photo (no shade to the photographer) because she's dressed up in-character as the fembot from the 365 music video. Note the hair, the headband, the red lip, the plastic on her clothes. Therefore imo it kind of doesn't really work as an infobox image because she's not really "Katy Perry", she's cosplaying as someone else. To put it in perspective, an image of Kathy Beth Terry (her "nerd" alter ego) wouldn't be used as an infobox image for the lead for the same reasons.

Anyways, I'm still trying to find more images that could be used. She has a bunch of interviews, press, and media coming out to promote Play and When I'm Gone, let's hope at least one of those is released under CC? Hahaha shanghai.^{talk to me} 05:08, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Regarding cosplay, I see what you mean, and the Met Gala crop you inserted here isn't so bad. We can always revisit the matter when more non-copyrighted pics become available. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 05:28, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

@SNUGGUMS: Haha yeah I was just about to comment that here, that I changed it. I ran the photo of Perry that I got through some brightness and color correcting in Photoshop and it's definitely now more usable for the lead image but I do still want to keep looking for better photos. However hopefully this Met Gala photo will be usable for a couple of weeks until more non copyrighted pics become available.

I am going to keep looking for better images however, already checking all the award show / red carpets Perry went to in 2019 and see if any of them are free use :b shanghai.^{talk to me} 05:37, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

@SNUGGUMS:, there's a bunch of Katycats posting photos that they took of Perry during Play on Twitter right now. Doja Cat's lead image in her article is from a photo that a Twitter fan took at a concert, could this process to ask these fans to let Wikipedia use them be applicable to Perry as well? Pinging @Cybertrip: for good measure as well since he has experience with using these Twitter fan photos in Wikipedia. How would the process exactly work if I were to message a Katycat and ask for permission to use the photos that they took? Thanks! shanghai.^{talk to me} 16:15, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Per WP:Image use policy, we'd have to ensure any fans who post such photos indicate they're free for reuse on other sites, and asking them directly might require you to show them the page I linked. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 16:28, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

@SNUGGUMS and RogueShanghai: I personally consulted the Twitter user for the Doja image and asked them to submit to Commons themselves via email. I suggest you do the same. Thanks. —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 17:43, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

@Cybertrip: How would the process of submitting to Commons work? Is there a page that details this? I searched around on Commons and couldn't find anything, thanks! shanghai.^{talk to me} 19:37, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

RogueShanghai Just copy and paste this template into DMs with the original photographer and ask them to attach their photo and send it to the given email address :) —cybertrip👽 ( 💬 • 📝) 19:45, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

@Hassanjalloh1: See this current discussion for why the 2019 365 video image isn't fit for the lead. She is in character as the fembot from the 365 music video, note the hair, makeup, the plastic on her clothes. The Met Gala 2019 outfit by comparison recieved hundreds and thousands of views on YouTube. [1] [2] The image of her on the Met Gala Red Carpet proves to be much more notable and significant than the 365 2019 cosplay on the red carpet. shanghai.^{talk to me} 19:55, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Sources

@Ronherry:

• Glamour: Her music influenced the sound and style of an entire decade, and her legacy continues in 2020.
• Deadline: The all-time most-watched halftime show remains Katy Perry’s 2015 performance at Super Bowl XLIX with its total TV audience of 120.7 million.

This is the wording that reliable sources are using to describe Perry, "they're the same thing" and "it's unencyclopedic" are not good enough reasons to change it when RS uses this specific wording.

shanghai.^{talk to me} 13:01, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Regarding the Glamour source, we are supposed to paraphrase it, not simply copy-paste. That's a copyright violation. If editors want to use an entire sentence from the source without alterations, then the quotation marks ("...") must be used. Regarding the Deadline source, Deadline is not the most superior source when it comes to these shows. The actual record is "the biggest television audience for a halftime show" as per Billboard, Rolling Stone and Guinness World Records. Ronherry (talk) 14:43, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

There, I altered the sentence from the source so quotation marks don't need to be used. And Billboard<nowiki> itself says most-watched halftime show when talking about Katy's performance. Katy Perry‘s Super Bowl performance was seen by 118.5 million viewers, making it the most-watched halftime show ever, according to Nielsen data. Also, Prism is not a purely dance music record (see By the Grace of God) so to categorize it as a dance music record when it is a dance AND pop record is misleading. I already said this in the edit summary, but Katy's albums have received one billion streams each, not collectively.

I also reverted "female soloist" because reliable sources use solo female artist, not female soloist, when talking about the pop bible's multiple record breaking achievements. BBC says: "[Teenage Dream] is the first to have four number one singles by a solo female artist since Mariah Carey's debut record in 1990." Also, Witness featured an electropop sound but it is not an electropop record because it features influences of various other genres, such as house and EDM. There, that's your long stuff of "exactly what I'm doing." shanghai.^{talk to me} 16:19, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

None of these sources claim Teenage Dream is not a pop record, when you kept reverting that part. Ronherry (talk) 17:02, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

That's why I left it alone. But everything else has a proper and reasonable explanation for it.

Also, Perry has enough media sources to warrant the usage of the phrase "widespread media coverage." Most if not all of those sources talk about her legacy and influence on pop music as a whole. Remember, the original Glamour source says: Her music influenced the sound and style of an entire decade. Her style didn't influence the sound, her music influenced both the sound and style of 2010s pop, and why do you keep omitting "her music" from the lead sentence? shanghai.^{talk to me} 18:01, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

3 contextually insignificant sources are not enough for "widespread media coverage". That's an extreme exaggeration. I don't see Billboard, Rolling Stone, The Guardian or The New York Times here. You cited 3 random magazines unrelated to music. And you know what, I really do not care about this article anymore. I'd rather spend my time improving other articles that actually need my help rather than working in a toxic space with a editor who cannot keep their bias aside. Farewell. Ronherry (talk) 18:12, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

@Ronherry: There is a Billboard source in the Legacy and influence section, and provided it was only recently created, more sources will continue to be added.

However, this isn't the first time you've been hostile towards me, when I tried to improve Taylor Swift and you directed several personal attacks towards me including accusing me of "not knowing what an FA is", accusing me of "editing without sources and facts" (everything I edit is sourced appropriately) and accusing me of "hustling you." It is your choice whether to continue editing Katy Perry or not, but remember WP:5THWHEEL. shanghai.^{talk to me} 18:28, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Second line in lead

I don't see the role of "widespread media coverage" in Perry's lead? Why is user:RogueShanghai trying to replicate Swift's article in Perry's word by word? That is worrying. Perry is an unique artist and deserves an independently written, good article; not a cheap photocopy. All A-list artists receive "widespread media coverage", but that's not the point. I don't know why Swift was brought up here, but since she has been now, I'll address it. Swift's career has a very intricate relationship with media, which has been widely documented by ALL publications under the topics media scrutiny and toxic tabloids. Her personal life dissected and studied like no other popstar. All this has nothing to do with Perry. If one cannot come up with a good sentence by themselves. then let other editors do the job. Stop edit warring over it. "Apprentice editors" must try to learn one or two from this. Ronherry (talk) 17:51, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

@Ronherry: Why accuse me of personal attacks because I pointed out that Swift is one of your most edited articles, but then make a blatant personal attack that specifically targets my Apprentice Editor badge and accuse me of "not being able to come up with a good sentence by myself?" You seem to be addressing Taylor's past feuds with the media, but that has nothing to do with the sentence that "widespread media coverage" is actually in, which talks about her personal songwriting.

Adding "widespread media coverage" does not make any article a cheap photocopy, and why are you even accusing me of trying to replicate Swift's article word by word? Besides the lead sentence, I almost see no other similarities between Perry's lead and Swift's lead. You have avoided actually disputing that Perry should not have "widespread media coverage" in her article. The only reasons you have given so far are "they are different artists" and "I don't see the role". This behavior is uncollaborative. shanghai.^{talk to me} 18:10, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Katy Perry's Met Gala photo is a work of art not a suitable photo for her primary image

@RogueShanghai: please establish consensus if you want Katy Perry's Met Gala photo to be her primary image. I think the previous image should remain her primary photo until a suitable alternative is available, as the Met Gala image is a work of art designed for the specific occation and it's not an actual or normal photo of Katry Perry as decribed in the article.Hassanjalloh1 (talk) 20:45, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

@Hassanjalloh1: First of all:

• Making it personal by calling me "stubborn" is a WP:PA
• Wikipedia does not base its content based on what people are "criticizing" on social media, and where is this criticism that you speak of? I don't see any proof of it.
• Be wary of "Don't revert again or else"-type statements as they could be seen as WP:INTIM by other editors. shanghai.^{talk to me} 20:59, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

I'm sorry for calling you stubborn... It's mainly because you insisted on undoing something that has been undone. Naturally if your changes are reverted, you should allow what has been there before your changes to prevail prior to establishing a consensus. I just referenced certain criticisms I saw, for example this I saw on Twitter but that's not actually the main reason. The photo is just not suitable as her primary display photo. The photo is very popular, yes, but it's not an actual portrayal of Katy Perry as described in the article. MOS:IMAGERELEVANCE. It's "Katy Perry in a costume" - like a lot of people who attend the Met Gala. It could be included somewhere else in the article, such as within the "Fashion" sub-header but not as her primary photo. Better to leave the undisputed image that has been there for a while now until a recent, more suitable alternative is found. Hassanjalloh1 (talk) 21:38, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 January 2022

Katy Perry is not a songwriter so redact that. The industry writes all her lyrics and beats. 87.210.92.95 (talk) 13:25, 2 January 2022 (UTC)