Talk:Liz Cheney

Change Cheney's Party affiliation from "Republican" to "Independent", at least at the State level.

As of November 15th, 2021, The Wyoming GOP voted 31-29 to stop recognizing her as a member of the party, as reported by the Associated Press in "Wyoming GOP votes to stop recognizing Cheney as a Republican". If the state GOP no longer recognizes her as a member, then her affiliation should be changed to "Independent" on the State level.

Since political parties in the United States are vested on the state level, its possible that she also now an Independent (Caucused with Republicans) on the National Level, though an argument could be made otherwise. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.116.80.95 (talk) 00:39, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

She is still a Republican, whether or not the Wyoming Republican Party likes it. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:41, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

The news article above should be included as a reference in the article as prose, although I agree with Muboshgu that she should still be considered as a Republican. —twotwofourtysix^{(My talk page and contributions)} 00:47, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Agree with twotwofourtysix. Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) [he/his/him] 07:31, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

 Disagree Let's take this to an objective point-of-view to solve the problem. It should be noted that "affiliation" mean that a person is "closely attached or connected to an organization". Political parties are not identities, they are organizations. Definitively, Political parties are political organizations that supports the election of a group of candidates. Is the Republican Party currently supporting the election of Liz Cheney? Does the Republican Party have a cooperative relationship with Liz Cheney? If not, then definitively, Liz Cheney is no longer a Republican. Reavery (talk) 10:33, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

That's not the definition we use. She is a registered Republican and publicly identifies as a Republican, so we consider her to be a Republican. If we went by the decision of the state party, we'd be opening up a whole can of worms. If she moves to Idaho, is she once again a Republican because she's now under the jurisdiction of the Idaho GOP and they haven't voted not to recognize her? And if we're going off of the "closely attached or connected to an organization" definition, then wouldn't every single person need to be personally well-known to state party leadership such that there could even be a "relationship"? The standard your suggesting is extraordinarily murky, and it should make it apparent why we don't decide party affiliation that way. Cpotisch (talk) 08:04, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

 Comment: Former US president John Tyler is listed as an independent on his own page as well as on List of presidents of the United States for the time period following his expulsion from the Whig party in 1841. Is this expulsion any different from Cheney's expulsion from the GOP or is Cheney's more symbolic or something? I'm just wondering if this might count as precedent for changing Cheney's listed affiliation as well. --pluma♫ ♯ 21:27, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Agree , if you can find some articles that could dispute the main stream idea she is still a Republican. Eruditess (talk) 15:02, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

References

Contradictory Section

"Regarded as a leading ideological conservative[4] in the Bush–Cheney-era tradition and a representative of the Republican establishment,[5] Cheney is a neoconservative". This doesn't make a great deal of sense; "neoconservative" (per various sources linked in our very own wikipedia article) refers to ideologically liberal members of the Republican party. It does not seem logically possible for Cheney (neither Liz nor Dick) to be regarded as "leading ideological conservatives" yet also neoconservatives (a tongue-in-cheek term referring to liberal GOP members). Could the first sentence be changed to "regarded as a leading ideological neoconservative" for consistency and clarity? 98.246.150.92 (talk) 15:53, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

That sentence should be improved and I can try to take a stab at it. Neoconservatives are not ideologically liberal, though. They are hawks. Neocons may have started off more liberal in the 1960s, but they weren't in the 2000s. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:15, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Legitimate Political Discourse

The article says that "On February 4, 2022, the Republican National Committee called the events of January 6, 2021, "legitimate political discourse". It cites to a Boston Globe article that says this. The full statement by the RNC can be found here https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/rnc-censure-resolution/58226d40412e4f18/full.pdf. The actual censure never says what the media has portrayed. Instead it says "WHEREAS , Representatives Cheney and Kinzinger are participating in a Democrat-led persecution of ordinary citizens engaged in legitimate political discourse." The media might argue that this is the same thing. The other side may argue that it is not the same thing. The RNC may not have been referring to those who stormed the capitol but may have been referring merely to those who engaged in "legitimate political discourse" and who are now being subpoenaed, investigated, etc. by the Democrats. It isn't fair to reword the censure to make it sound worse for the RNC. The section should be changed to read

"On February 4, 2022, the Republican National Committee overwhelmingly voted to censure Cheney and Representative Adam Kinzinger by voice vote for "participating in a Democrat-led persecution of ordinary citizens engaged in legitimate political discourse." NTAbbott (talk) 14:27, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 July 2022

Change

On February 4, 2022, the Republican National Committee called the events of January 6, 2021, "legitimate political discourse" and overwhelmingly voted to censure Cheney and Representative Adam Kinzinger by voice vote for taking part in the House investigation of the Capitol assault.

to

On February 4, 2022, the Republican National Committee overwhelmingly voted to censure Cheney and Representative Adam Kinzinger by voice vote for "participating in a Democrat-led persecution of ordinary citizens engaged in legitimate political discourse."

and cite to

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/rnc-censure-resolution/58226d40412e4f18/full.pdf NTAbbott (talk) 14:30, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. I don't think extending the quote is useful in this situation. The current summary is more than sufficient, and doesn't require the use of a primary source. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:52, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

General statement regarding edit requests

There is some sense in an earlier statement that the bar for suggesting changes to this article is being set artificially high.

WP editors are called on to edit boldly. This fact does not change in the case of an article's semi-protected status. To suggest that all edits, including ones that seek to provide additional or clearer sources (or ones aiming to improve article compliance with WP:VERIFY and other guidelines) must seek prior consensus for suggested changes is to make all editing of this article onerously time consuming (even more so than is the semi-protected process already). The point of the current status is to protect it from vandalism, not to protect it from change.

To require consensus building before all edits is to suggest the article is technically, editorially, and intellectually perfect already. This has never been a presumption here. We need keep the bar where it has always been, and process all reasonable edit requests that clearly improve article quality (as addition of a further source with more expansive coverage of a sentence's content almost always does).

Cheers, a former professor, and old former logging editor with many tens of thousands of edits over a decade. 2601:246:C700:C:8D5C:71C1:CFE9:5128 (talk) 15:56, 16 July 2022 (UTC)