Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ice Hockey

Don Cherry

@AustinAuriat: has repeatedly contested that Cherry's comments were racist. I do not see any consensus in favor of removing that passage in the article. More participation at Talk:Don Cherry would be helpful in reaching consensus. Flibirigit (talk) 17:03, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Hey @Flibirigit what is this page? AustinAuriat (talk) 05:02, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

This is the talk page for Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey. Flibirigit (talk) 15:40, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Anything ice-hockey related that requires broader discussion comes here or is otherwise linked to the article talk page. Conyo14 (talk) 16:33, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Wow that’s pretty cool. AustinAuriat (talk) 18:20, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

@FlibirigitCan I join this? AustinAuriat (talk) 17:46, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Anyone is welcome to join the project. Please see Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey for the details. Flibirigit (talk) 19:31, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

I joined! Now what? AustinAuriat (talk) 01:02, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Welcome aboard. I hope you are not discouraged about Don Cherry, but he is a tricky subject with some contentious aspects of his work. Participate in any of the discussions, or edit any articles which interest you. Some editors prefer statistics, events, teams, players, or other biographies. We can suggest areas to work on if you mention some interests. Flibirigit (talk) 02:12, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

@AustinAuriat: I wanted to send a belated welcome to the project. Always nice to have more users interested in improving hockey articles. Kaiser matias (talk) 23:39, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

As I said on my talk page, I have decided to move on from Don. I’ll look around for interests AustinAuriat (talk) 02:32, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Sorry to be so stuck on the topic, I see your point, I will work on smaller topics AustinAuriat (talk) 02:33, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! I’m excited to work on this AustinAuriat (talk) 17:37, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

World Juniors Ice Hockey Championship pages

I think we have a slight inconsistency in the 2023 edition where there seems to be two pages. One for the 'top division' & one for 'all the divisions'. Perhaps it's an inconsistency across the board, some years have one page, while others have two. I don't have the expertise on fixing this, sadly. GoodDay (talk) 17:27, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Please provide links to the pages you want to discuss. It makes life easier for others to help you. Flibirigit (talk) 17:29, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

I think an editor had big plans to expand the pages to mirror the senior men's and women's but got stopped. I personally don't think making more pages is wise since I think the lower tiers have a tenuous hold on notability but I generally try to just do what I do and move on.18abruce (talk) 17:34, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

The two 2023 pages are 2023 World Junior Ice Hockey Championships & 2023 IIHF World Junior Championship. Also, kinda related to this, how do we describe the status of the 2024 World Junior Ice Hockey Championships? The 2024 tournament's top division has concluded play, but not its Division II B & Division III (which both have yet to commence). GoodDay (talk) 17:45, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

For 2024, each of the tiers has their own page so calling 2024 championships concluded is not a big deal, people can read further if they are interested I think. Either way, I am not going to argue it so do what you think is best.18abruce (talk) 18:02, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Combining or splitting pages, isn't a talent I have. Among the IIHF tournaments, the creation of separate pages for the top division, began with the last roughly two decades of the Ice Hockey World Championship tournaments. Anyways, just making this WikiProject aware of the inconsistency now brought to the Juniors year tournaments. GoodDay (talk) 18:14, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

I've put in a technical page move request for both 2023 pages. Later, I'll recommend deletion for one of them. GoodDay (talk) 16:34, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Resolved - Both 2023 pages have been re-merged under the 2023 World Junior Ice Hockey Championships title :) GoodDay (talk) 05:54, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for taking care of them.18abruce (talk) 21:14, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Anaheim Ducks

Alright, we know that Fowler & Henrique are alternate captains, but who's the other alternate captain? Terry or Silfverberg. I'm asking, because an IP (who regularly edits the Ducks related pages, as well as their affiliates) keeps changing it in the infobox (and template roster) from Terry to Silfverberg. BTW - add these types of 'disputes', as reasons why we should delete the 'alternate captains' from NHL team season infoboxes. PS - I don't think the IP is aware, when they're contacted or their changes are reverted, as they seem to not engage in communicating. GoodDay (talk) 05:26, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

EliteProspects has it as rotating between the aforementioned two + Terry and Mason MacTavish. The Kip 06:07, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

It's getting confusing. Starting this season (or last season) the NHL teams' official websites 'stopped' putting the "C" & the "A"s on their rosters. GoodDay (talk) 06:13, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

It looks like the Ducks do not have any permanent alternate captains. Their 2023–24 media guide says 2022–23 – None (captain) – Rotating alternates (captains) So I believe it is the same this year. – sbaio 14:47, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm not going to dwell on this, but the IP claims they don't want to post 'here', because their english isn't good. Their english posts at their talkpage, seem quite accurate to me. I'm getting a sense of mere refusal to communicate (out side their talkpage, at least). They seem to be exclusively (see Mobile & other IPs) interested in the Ducks & the Ducks' affiliations. GoodDay (talk) 20:26, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Player positions... again

This was last discussed in October 2023. There was a compromise reached, which seemed to satisfy Tylerboyd17 (talk · contribs) for some time. However, it appears that Tylerboyd17 has since that discussion changed its mind regarding compromise and has been editing, while logged out (at least three different IP ranges that I am aware of – #1, #2, #3). What would be the next step in ending this disruptive behavior due to WP:IPHOPping? – sbaio 14:28, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

1) Warn the IPs of their behavior via their talk pages and copy the warning to User:Tylerboyd17.

2) Reverse the edits with the discussion link as the edit summary

3) Take it to ANI if they continue. A range block of 48–72 hours may fix their behavior.

Hope this might help. Conyo14 (talk) 16:46, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

All three options, should be taken. GoodDay (talk) 16:47, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

I hope my "options" were actually taken as steps haha. Conyo14 (talk) 17:25, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Tylerboyd17 is being dishonest in their edit-warring (i.e logged out) & they have to go. GoodDay (talk) 17:27, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Which is something beyond our scope. This is in ANI's wheelhouse. Ravenswing 22:33, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

I haven’t been logged in a while. Been busy with school. I do not know what is going on, but it isn’t me. I’ve since retracted a lot of what I said, even if though in a sense I was correct, but then again, so was sbaio. If you’ve noticed, I was the one who edited a lot of positions that weren’t previously edited. Jonathan Huberdeau, Jordan Kyrou, Mike Hoffman, Quinten Byfeild, etc. Adding centre to their positions because of what nhl.com says. I’m not the only Tylerboyd17 (talk) 03:33, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't really believe that because you've edited with IP#3 recently, then with IP#2 in December. IP#1 acts as a proxy and doesn't show any wrongdoing, really IP#3 is the most recent and egregious one. It is also the one we know is attached to your account. So, if sbaio chooses to go through with the steps, you'll have the chance to accept the consequences, but otherwise I'd suggest you consider keeping your account active on all devices. IP-hopping is means for ruin, same with socking. Conyo14 (talk) 06:27, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Believe what you want. I have a brother who also does edits, but does not have an account. He is aware of the position change drama between me and sbaio that took place months ago because he would sit next to me while I’m on my laptop. He thought it was funny and stupid. I know that’s not believable, but I have not been active enough to do anything. In a sense, we were both correct, but sbaio was more correct in the end. I can admit my wrong doing and take responsibility. I’ll even accept the consequences of this situation if it means keeping the peace, and everyone can be happy. Just came on because I wanted to edit Michael McLeod’s page on the fact that he has been insane in the faceoff circle, but does not get talked about. Saw I had notifications. Tylerboyd17 (talk) 17:01, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

And yet another IP from the same range comes to Jordan Kyrou's page and just continues with WP:OR that Tylerboyd17 has been doing (when NHL lists completely the opposite). It is impossible for a random IP to come and edit same pages and exactly same field. A compromise was reached that we list a generic position (Forward) if, for example, NHL lists C and Elite Prospects lists C/RW. I do not have time to go with ANI at this time, but this is getting ridiculous and you should just stop and respect the compromise. – sbaio 17:13, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Okay. I’m currently at school hence why the different IP (my brother goes here too). I have since respected our compromise, and I hope my recent edit regarding Michael McLeod was accurate, and not violating anything. BTW, you should know NHL is not accurate with positions either. I’m just being honest. They do not always update the players position, and it’s not uncommon for players to switch positions upon turning pro. I also watch a lot of hockey, but that is not a good way of editing pages. Huberdeau for example was only listed as a left winger before me or you came across his page. I apologize for any this ridiculous drama, and I understand if you’re not patient to hear anything I have to say rn. I’ll talk with my brother. Tylerboyd17 (talk) 17:27, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

I am guessing this is a matter of shared devices being misused under the same household. We should probably consider blocking the IP range, which will likely block Tylerboyd17 on the IP range devices, but he can use his account on other devices. Conyo14 (talk) 17:32, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

I understand. If it means this will stop, I will support that. I apologize for this whole mess. I didn’t think this would happen. My brother confirmed he was the one with me because he loves drama (pathetic, I know). This was ridiculous, and I’ll accept the consequences. Tylerboyd17 (talk) 17:36, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

My brother? Anyways, IMHO, this should go to SPI. But in the meantime, stick to one registered account, please. GoodDay (talk) 20:14, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

PWHL, diacritics & related non-bio pages

Should Professional Women's Hockey League & its related non-player pages, adhere to 'no diacritics' per WP:NCIH? After all it's a North American league not entirely within Quebec. GoodDay (talk) 01:48, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Note - I've hidden/removed diacritics from the league, the league season page, the team pages, the draft pages, the team season pages. GoodDay (talk) 02:38, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

FWIW - Looks like they're being used in the PHF, NWHL, WWHL, CWHL & related pages to those leagues. I'm suspecting the same, with the women's minor leagues. GoodDay (talk) 02:59, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps a simplistic interpretation on my part, but I don’t see why the PWHL has a particular reason to be exempted from NCIH. The Kip 04:03, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

I've been reverted at one of the PWHL team pages, with an explanation that I had applied NCIH incorrectly. GoodDay (talk) 04:13, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

If the league is using diacritics, then we should be using them here as well. Otherwise, it's original research.-- Earl Andrew - talk 14:57, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

This is English Wikipedia though. Not Swedish, Finnish, Slovakian etc Wikipedia. GoodDay (talk) 15:05, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Irrelevant. If the league and most sources are using diacritics, it's original research to be making up new ways of spelling their names, and it also goes against WP:COMMONNAME.-- Earl Andrew - talk 14:45, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Per WP:NCIH: "All North American hockey pages should have names without diacritics, except where their use is likewise customary (specifically, in the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League and the Ligue Nord-Américaine de Hockey)." Pretty simple guideline. I don't see an RfC changing this rule in favor of one league. Conyo14 (talk) 15:48, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Given that the PWHL is a brand-new league, and thus free of the baggage of past typography limitations, we should examine how it uses modified letters. Its web site, including its news releases, uses them freely, as far as I can see. isaacl (talk) 18:24, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. If the PWHL is using diacritics on uniforms, in their press materials and on their websites, that seems like a done deal. Ravenswing 00:23, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Agree with this perspective. My interpretation has always been that "where their use is likewise customary" encompasses leagues in which the use of diacritics is standard, rather than being limited to geographic regions. As GoodDay noted, this has been the operating standard for women’s leagues in North America (and abroad) for some time. This topic was also discussed at Talk:2024 PWHL season. @MikeVitale, 18abruce, Wheatzilopochtli, Other justin, and LuluVohn: your input on this topic would be most appreciated. Spitzmauskc (talk) 18:59, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

I am in favor of diacritics for the PWHL, as they are used on the official website [1] and on jerseys [2]

It seems to me that use of diacritics is becoming the standard in the NHL as well, and WP:NCIH may be due for an update. Wheatzilopochtli (talk) 19:09, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

I am also in favor of using diacritics on player names (and wherever else may be customary.) They’re used all over the website, on the official statistics website, in press releases, etc. I see no reason that we should not be following suit. —MikeVitale 01:33, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm in favour too—if the league is using them, I don't see why not. Other justin (talk) 01:29, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm also in favor. LuluVohn (talk) 17:44, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm in favor of the use of diacritics since the uniforms, the website, and press materials appear to use them. Should include team names as well.18abruce (talk) 00:12, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Well, if that's how it is in the PWHL, then so be it. I don't support using diacritics in their pages, but I won't go against apparent consensus here, to show them. GoodDay (talk) 00:48, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

It looks like it's common usage for the league. Though I expect the domino effect to topple to the NHL soon. Conyo14 (talk) 00:50, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Addition of alleged domestic violence and sexual assault incidents to biographies

Contributions by "Mywifileftme" have added alleged domestic violence and sexual assault incidents to several ice hockey biographies. See changes to Nikolay Zherdev, Mike Komisarek, Drew Doughty, Denis Potvin, and Mario Lemieux. Some of these appear undue due to their alleged nature, and tangential connection to the subjects. Any thoughts? Flibirigit (talk) 18:09, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

This goes beyond hockey. The essay WP:CONTROVERSIALFACT provides some clarity on this type of content. I am not opposed to these items being there especially as they have a reliable source, but higher quantity of reliable sources can trump the one. Conyo14 (talk) 19:13, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi, I happened to see this after being tagged in another thread above, but I would just like to agree that the inclusion of domestic and sexual violence (even alleged) is important, especially on the pages of well-known or bigger names. I do agree that it needs to be well-sourced and well-cited. LuluVohn (talk) 18:00, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

As for WP:DUE, a separate section header (especially with a title like History of Alleged Sexual Assault Apologism) is a pretty blatant issue of due weight and WP:NPOV in general. Except for the most notable cases, a separate section heading is probably unnecessary. (see also WP:CSECTION)

I can look through these additions and trim and copy edit to better conform with both NPOV, WP:BLP, and WP:BLPCRIME. (Through my GOCE work, I have a quite a bit of experience trimming NPOV text and weaving controversial statements into articles in a more neutral way.)

I can work on these and share diffs of my edits. Wracking ^talk! 20:06, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

• Mario Lemieux – diff (general cleanup is needed in the personal life section)
• Denis Potvin – diff (I actually made this section longer to accommodate details, and added another source)
• Drew Doughty – diff (though a short incident, this was pretty widely covered; the personal life section needs expansion, but that can be said for many hockey articles)
• Mike Komisarek – diff (removed, see edit summary)
• Nikolay Zherdev – diff (I undid Flibirigit's removal of this addition; they cited WP:RS, but the post seems to be mostly a translation of an MK article, which seems reliable enough. Moreover, the Yahoo Sports writer Dmitry Chesnokov was a member of the PHWA and pretty well-established in English-language coverage of hockey in Russia (that's to say, not just some rando))

Also, I've notified Mywifileftme of this discussion. Let me know if you have any questions or concerns about my edits. Best, Wracking ^talk! 21:27, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Just a note that they’ve continued the additions, including an unreferenced one on Jon Merrill. More cleanup may be needed; I don’t have time to do full restructuring atm, but I’ve undone their edit to Jake Virtanen as it cites a Reddit post, which is certainly not an RS.The Kip 08:08, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Village Pump RfC, of interest

Concerning NHL Draft etc. This Village Pump RFC may be of interest, to this WikiProject. GoodDay (talk) 19:08, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Hillary Witt#Requested move 11 January 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Hillary Witt#Requested move 11 January 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 07:57, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Elite Ice Hockey League

Elite Ice Hockey League has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:04, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Deletion discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Flames Central

Hi all, I just noticed the deletion discussion for Flames Central. Wracking ^talk! 05:02, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

BLP heads up

Some additional eyes on Cal Foote, Michael McLeod (ice hockey), Carter Hart, Dillon Dube and Alex Formenton would probably be a good idea over the next few weeks. Connormah (talk) 18:23, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

NOTE: These biographies relate to the 2018 Hockey Canada controversy and sexual assault and Hockey Canada sexual assault scandal. According to the Globe and Mail, players were directed to surrender to police in London. Best wishes. Flibirigit (talk) 19:00, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Might be a solid idea to request temporary protection at WP:RFP. The Kip 19:16, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

I think it's best to wait for either disruption meriting protection or for major news to break. As it stands, most news in this case has been a slow trickle. As we don't have a clear expected timeline on surrenders, charges, or findings being made public, we have no way of ensuring how brief the protection period would be. (See WP:NO-PREEMPT)

This was a response to a now-removed comment by the Kip: For the reasons I just mentioned (unclear timeline) I think {{Current person}} is inappropriate in this case and should be removed (see template documentation for guidance on placement). Wracking ^talk! 19:29, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, opted not to do that. RFP may still be a good route if some less-restrained editors think otherwise, though. The Kip 19:29, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Makes sense. Wracking ^talk! 19:31, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Materialscientist protected (autoconfirmed or confirmed) Carter Hart until February 4. Wracking ^talk! 01:07, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Seems that McLeod and Foote are now dealing with a similar level of issues, so I'll go ahead and RFP them. The Kip 17:58, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Foote now semi-protected for three days, McLeod for three weeks. The Kip 18:48, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

TSN is now confirming that the five speculated to be involved are in fact the five surrendering to police, so that needs to be added with attribution (considering it's not a police report yet). McLeod's lawyer did confirm he's facing charges, and Formenton has already surrendered to police, so I feel that the current person template is now appropriate for at least them.

Foote and McLeod's pages are already semi-protected for another two weeks, and Formenton's through April, but Dube and Hart's protections expire in a few days; might be best to keep a closer eye on them. The Kip 21:27, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure any current event template is necessary - as per the template documentation -

It is not intended to be used to mark an article that merely has recent news articles about the topic; if it were, thousands of articles would have this template.

There is pretty much no rapidly changing or developing news that would warrant several editors to be editing these articles at the same time, and likely to be nothing else more given how tight lipped everything around the case is, so I don't think it is necessary. Connormah (talk) 17:06, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Merge discussion on 2018 Hockey Canada sexual assault

In November, 162 etc. began a discussion about merging 2018 Hockey Canada controversy and sexual assault into Hockey Canada sexual assault scandal. The discussion has picked up given recent news. I'd like to see if we can reach some sort of consensus there. Wracking ^talk! 00:38, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

List of Hockey Night in Canada commentating crews (1990s) and similar articles

By similar I mean: 1980s, 1970s, and 1960s. Aside from being very trivial, is there anything notable about listing the HNIC crews for every playoff game? I find more notability about the crew differing season-by-season, but entire articles devoted to just the playoff games seems like WP:LISTCRUFT, not to mention that each reference is a YouTube video. Conyo14 (talk) 01:15, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Blank and merge to List of Hockey Night in Canada commentators. Totally listcruft. 162 etc. (talk) 01:34, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Some of those pages are definitely over sourced. GoodDay (talk) 01:43, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Agree with 162 etc., especially given the lack of independent sourcing. (The videos are cool, though.) Wracking ^talk! 01:50, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

I'll definitely do that, but if someone undoes my edit, then I will take it to AFD. Conyo14 (talk) 02:08, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

As expected, the edit was undone. I am taking this to AFD. Conyo14 (talk) 17:08, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I've restored your 're-direct' edits to three of them. Will leave the 1990's one alone, as you've opened an AfD there. Also, invited @Khoa41860: (opposing individual) to appear 'here'. GoodDay (talk) 17:30, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I appreciate it. The discussion can be found here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Hockey Night in Canada commentating crews (1990s) Conyo14 (talk) 17:44, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Jonathon Blum

Jonathon Blum has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 20:00, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

AAA statistics in BLPs

A certain editors thinks that career statistics from levels like AAA should be removed. A discussion can be found at Talk:Cale Makar#Career stats. – sbaio 15:18, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Statistics from non-notable teams are trivial. This project used to include only junior hockey and professional statistics. Why are we as a project trying to include every statistic we can find? If a person did anything notable in minor ice hockey, it can be included in the prose, such as Wayne Gretzky. Flibirigit (talk) 15:41, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

I completely agree with what you wrote and think that anything pre-junior should not be listed. Why and when was this changed? Has it been discussed at all or some editor just started adding those? – sbaio 16:23, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

The last discussion I recall was circa 2008–2009. Nothing was added to Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey/Player pages format regarding which statistics qualify for inclusion. I think the minor hockey statistics were since expanded by good faith editors, and nobody challenged. Flibirigit (talk) 20:18, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Courtesy pings to @Kaiser matias and Ravenswing:, who were involved in writing the above format. Flibirigit (talk) 21:06, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

I'll note that when I was going through and adding stats to existing articles, I went with what was readily available and published, often from the NHL's site directly (before their latest, terrible site update). That said, I'm not for or against it, and would be fine with junior (15/16-20 year old; think CHL, BCHL, USHL, etc) and above only. Kaiser matias (talk) 00:26, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

I actually didn't have a whole lot to do with that page, except in so far that it includes the old standards for ice hockey notability that I authored. I quite agree that sub-junior hockey is non-notable, and I think with the exception of eliteprospects.com, none of the significant stat sites we use (Hockey DB, hockey-reference, the NHL's site, Sports Forecaster, etc) mentions it. Ravenswing 00:34, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Large addition to Potential National Hockey League expansion

Hi all, just putting some eyes on this. An IP editor recently added nearly 10k bits to Potential National Hockey League expansion, adding sections about Milwaukee and Hartford. They provided some sources, but some paragraphs have no footnotes.

They had previously made an unsourced addition which I reverted (I was especially wary given our recent hoaxster). I also left a message inviting them to continue contributing while providing sources.

In the spirit of WP:PRESERVE and WP:BITE, I think we should try to see how this addition can be improved (e.g. do the existing footnotes also verify unsourced text?) Wracking ^talk! 00:27, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Medal tables in BLPs

The discussion above about AAA and similar statistics has naturally raised other concerns. Why do we duplicate information regarding medals on BLPs? I see no reason to add a medal table and then list the same information in the international statistics table. I went through the archives of WT:NHL and it seems that there was never any consensus to add separate medal tables. – sbaio 06:44, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

The medal tables were the original style, and at some point results were added to international stats. I am opposed to the latter, for two reasons: most international athletes have a medal table across the site, and for players on teams that don't medal I find it a little ridiculous to note that they played 8th overall or whatever. Keep the stats tables to stats, and the medals to the medal table. Kaiser matias (talk) 15:46, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

I like the results column. Even though it is redundant it serves a different purpose, that being displaying the medals chronologically instead of by event and medal. It takes up a small amount of space and on larger articles can be pretty far removed from the medal table. For non-medalists, readers may still be looking for a player's finishes at their international events, and given how little space it takes up it seems worth it. For players with medals, it adds some visual interest to the section.Wheatzilopochtli (talk) 00:19, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

In my opinion, medals in the stats table provide context for player performance within specific tournaments (for example, a player may accumulate two points with a gold medal team versus fifteen points with a seventh place team). Of course, prose should also provide such context but the stats table is a different format that some readers may find more accessible. For what it’s worth, I think having medals in the stats table is more valuable than using a medal table at all – medal tables provide very little useful information beyond the obvious. Spitzmauskc (talk) 20:17, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Constant vandalism of NHL teams' infobox, concerning owners

I may have asked this before. But, is there anyway we can get an administrator to semi-protect all 30 NHL team pages, from the IP & Mobile editor(s) who keep changing team owners to a player's name or other teams, after that player had a big part in defeating the team the previous game or a team defeated another team? This is been going on over a year, now. GoodDay (talk) 16:58, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Another potential idea: would it be possible to create an edit filter to catch these kinds of edits? Seems like it would be an easy thing to isolate, but I don't know much about creating them. Connormah (talk) 17:04, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Maybe we can gather up several diffs and put in a request at Wikipedia:Edit filter/Requested? Connormah (talk) 17:08, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Sounds great. GoodDay (talk) 18:47, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Here's some recent diffs:

• [3]
• [4]
• [5]
• [6]
• [7]
• [8]
• [9]

Wracking ^talk! 21:14, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Always Tom Wilson, smh. A script/bot would be nice in preventing these vandals. Conyo14 (talk) 21:52, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I have to say I’m rather surprised Wilson isn’t indefinitely protected, considering his rather controversial nature. The Kip 00:00, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Looks like the edit filter already exists, but we may want to request that it is changed in some way (e.g. disallowing instead of just tagging). See filter 735. Wracking ^talk! 22:10, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't know how an edit filter would distinguish between a valid edit and an invalid one, though. isaacl (talk) 23:16, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Maybe it's possible for it to disallow unregistered editors (the vast majority of this vandalism) and tag all other edits? Wracking ^talk! 23:38, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Maybe allow only extended confirmed users. Conyo14 (talk) 23:51, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Something I've wondered, is if it would be possible to make the owner parameter pull from a separate module, which itself could be heavily protected, allowing IPs to edit other aspects of the infobox. I'm thinking of how team colors are added to the infobox borders and related templates - via Module:Sports color/ice hockey rather than at the template level. I also don't know how this back end thing works, but it's not like ownership legitimately changes frequently, so having all 32 teams pull from one doc shouldn't be that inconvenient I would think. Echoedmyron (talk) 11:02, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

It could be done, but... the infobox template itself would have to be protected to keep the call to the module from being altered. Then the team pages themselves would have to be protected to prevent the infobox from being replaced. (The information could also be pulled from the wikidata project, but that just pushes the vandalism problem to there, and I imagine there are fewer people who would feel comfortable reverting changes on wikidata.) isaacl (talk) 18:53, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Unreferenced articles backlog drive

Hi all, I'd like to notify everyone about the February unreferenced articles backlog drive and its intersection with our project.

I have compiled all of the eligible articles from this list into a page: User:Wracking/Unsourced. Other editors are welcome to edit this page (e.g. mark large swathes as completed in the "tackled" column, or mark the articles you'll work on).

See full details on the drive page, and please don't hesitate to reach out to coordinate if you'd like. Wracking ^talk! 20:45, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

2025 Four-nation tournament

May we clarify here, that 2025 Four-nation tournament is not an edition of the World Cup of Hockey? -- GoodDay (talk) 20:25, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Not even the same format. Might require its own page though. Conyo14 (talk) 20:34, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

It's not, they clarified they hope it's a "gateway" to a regular Olympic/WCOH rotation here. The Kip 20:35, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Indeed, its needs a page of its own. I've removed mention of it from the World Cup of Hockey page. The next WCOH is planned to be held in 2028 & every four years after, in rotation with the Winter Olympics. GoodDay (talk) 20:52, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Figure we can start building it out at Draft:NHL 4 Nations Face-Off. The Kip 20:55, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Should it be "4" or "Four"? GoodDay (talk) 20:56, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

The NHL's marketing it as "4," but I'm not sure if that lines up with Wikipedia policy. I prefer going with what they're doing, though. The Kip 20:57, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

When it comes MOS:NUM, integers 0–9 are spelled out, unless they are a proper name per MOS:NUMNOTES. The NHL is marketing it as "4" and assuming that secondary reliable sources are following, which judging by the looks of it, they are, then the article name can have "4". Just keep in mind that the title of the tourney is capitalized. We don't want anyone saying anything otherwise. Conyo14 (talk) 22:52, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

All Star Game selections, who didn't play

Example pages Carey Price & Mark Messier, recommend review of @47.54.146.218:'s edits on hockey pages. Also, their edit summaries need some toning down. GoodDay (talk) 02:12, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/47.54.146.218 The Kip 02:20, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Aside from that, I don't entirely see the harm in their edits. They're not really a necessary change, but it's not like they're removing the ASG entirely/claiming because they didn't play they weren't one, and besides that they seem to have become a reasonably productive contributor to Habs pages. They've even removed minor league teams from the "played_for" box of guys who've played top-level pro, which is solid housekeeping. The Kip 02:23, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

I just figured, perhaps they should get a consensus 'here', for some of their changes. Being bold is encouraged, but there's a line that can be easily crossed, if such changes are forced. GoodDay (talk) 02:29, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

I agree with The Kip, nothing terrible about their edits. Probably someone new to editing, not even aware of the project's existence. Conyo14 (talk) 03:30, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Potential National Hockey League expansion moved to Expansion of the National Hockey League

The article "Potential National Hockey League expansion" was moved to Expansion of the National Hockey League. I have started a discussion about the move. Participation is welcome. isaacl (talk) 04:54, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

List of NHL All-Star Game broadcasters

Yet another list of broadcasters here. However, this one seems to have more notability with the switches of networks over each year, but that being said, I don't know why we need to spell out every play-by-play, colour commentator, ice-level reporter, etc. for each game and each broadcast network. There aren't even refs for some of the list items. I can likely take this to AfD and let that process play out or selectively merge some of the notable content to NHL All-Star Game. Unless someone is passionate about this list staying? Conyo14 (talk) 17:39, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Seems like something that could be merged into the NHL All-Star Game. Specially, the timeline for each network broadcasting the game could go into the parent article, with the broadcasters for each game being mentioned in the article on that game (if it exists), or a mention in that NHL season's article. Flibirigit (talk) 18:10, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Potential page moves

A recently closed RFC which (might) effect NHL pages. Could be interpreted as a 'green light' to move pages to lower case (bypassing the RM route), concerning all sports drafts. GoodDay (talk) 23:06, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Good ol’ Dicklyon and the others’ WP:IDLI assertions that sports editors don’t know what they’re doing.

Until there’s an explicit consensus to apply the same standard to NHL pages, I don’t think we need to follow it, nor should it be forced through by other editors. The Kip 00:55, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

I agree with this assessment. While it may signal that a discussion may happen based on this, it doesn't mean that other sport leagues should be affected by the outcome. Each league's draft has extensive history that may lead to a different outcome and applying the outcome from the NFL RFC to other league's drafts would be silly. Hey man im josh (talk) 16:53, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

@Hey man im josh: My concerns are heightened, seeing as an individual is already looking into bypassing the RM route at USFL Draft & related pages, based on the RFC-in-question. GoodDay (talk) 17:04, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

As the RfC closer, I can confirm that the close applies only to pages related to the NFL draft and has no impact on other leagues or sports. There was some discussion of them at the RfC, but was unrelated to the RfC question or the consensus reached. Anyone trying to use it to bypass discussion on other articles is not interpreting the close correctly. The Wordsmith^{Talk to me} 17:15, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Let's wait and see what happens. It's obviously a very toxic topic. Conyo14 (talk) 01:04, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Just letting yas know, because hours ago, a page move at National Football League Draft to lowercase draft, occurred without benefit of an RM. GoodDay (talk) 06:39, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

...occurred without benefit of an RM: The RfC close said there was

no consensus that the RfC is invalid or inappropriate

So a request was made at WP:RM/TR and the move was executed by a page mover.—Bagumba (talk) 06:48, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

The request should've been rejected. As many pointed out in the RFC-in-question. An RFC shouldn't be used to 'get around' an RM. GoodDay (talk) 06:53, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

And that argument was rejected by the RfC close, and clarified further in their followup to you —Bagumba (talk) 07:07, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

I suspect that closure will be challenged at WP:AN, if the RFC continues to be used to bypass the RM process, going forward. GoodDay (talk) 07:12, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Games inside team templates

Currently, team temples all have a "Culture and lore" section which often lists notable games the team participated in such as the various outdoor events or "brawl" games or other special games which have their own articles. I'm wondering whether the team template should be updated to split off games into a Games section and keep Culture and lore for that specifically. Jmj713 (talk) 22:45, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Eh, considering there's plenty of teams that have few to no individually-notable games, I'm not sure if it's really necessary to break off. The Kip 06:20, 8 February 2024 (UTC)