Talk:Normandy landings

Soviet invasion of Poland

I propose to link the Causes of World War II and Soviet invasion of Poland into background. Thanks. AXONOV (talk) ⚑ 19:23, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Eisenhower

Ike was NOT a Major General (2-star) for Normandy. He was the theater commander, a full General (4-star), and later received his 5th star. 47.156.218.197 (talk) 03:54, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 November 2022

Our landings in the Cherbourg-Havre area have failed to gain a satisfactory foothold and I have withdrawn the troops. My decision to attack at this time and place was based upon the best information available. The troops, the air and the Navy did all that Bravery and devotion to duty could do. If any blame or fault attaches to the attempt it is mine alone.

"If We Have Failed" Dwight D. Eisenhower

FlammableReal (talk) 00:54, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Not done; there's no image under that file name. — Diannaa (talk) 14:25, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 20 February 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) Sceptre (talk) 11:57, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

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Normandy landings → D-Day – D-Day is the WP:COMMONNAME of this topic, not the "Normandy landings". D-Day is also a generic millitary term, and that article can keep existing under its current name. PhotographyEdits (talk) 09:09, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

• Procedural close/opposed. Where is your prior discussion of this, before raising an Rfc about it? Rfc's are expensive (in volunteer time), and you should discuss this first, to see if there's some support for your position, before raising it as an Rfc. In addition, I'm opposed on the merits, because en-wiki is not only used by native English speakers, but by many ESL users, and Normandy landings is a naturally descriptive title which everybody can understand, while "D-Day" is more of a jargon accessible to native English speakers. Finally, there's this ngrams chart, which compares the terms, and shows which one is more common. Mathglot (talk) 10:42, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

  @Mathglot Looking at the previous discussion about this, there is surely some support for my position. PhotographyEdits (talk) 12:02, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

  Oppose: Per above Thehistorianisaac (talk) 07:06, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose The term "Normandy landings" (or more precisely "June 1944 Normandy landings") is less ambiguous. I would be very cautious about ngrams, since it will include other D-Days and therefore show a higher proportion of D-Days than is justified. -- Toddy1 (talk) 11:49, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

  Since it gives zero hits for D-Day, I think ngram is broken for words that include dashes. PhotographyEdits (talk) 12:01, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Ah, ngrams process the "-" character as minus. To obtain ngrams for hyphenated phrases we need to insert a space character either side of the the "-" character, and this greatly changes the results:

• English D-Day is the most common.
• British English Until about 2000 there was no clear winner between Normandy landings and D-Day, but currently D-Day is most common.
• American English D-Day is the most common.
• English fiction D-Day is currently the most common, though in the past D Day or Normandy landings have been close rivals.

Except for English fiction, we cannot be sure that all the D-Day and D Day hits are for Normandy - some will be for other operations such as Salerno. Ngrams are useful but other factors need to be taken into account. -- Toddy1 (talk) 12:16, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose less ambiguous per WP:CRITERIA In ictu oculi (talk) 11:56, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose as D-Day is a generic term, and the current title is more specific. Here are links to the previous move discussions: Talk:Normandy landings/Archive 1#Proposed move?, Talk:Normandy landings/Archive 1#Proposed rename of article, Talk:Normandy landings/Archive 2#Requested move 19 October 2014. Consensus has consistently been against a title change to D-Day. — Diannaa (talk) 13:50, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

  Yes, but that is not an argument per WP:CCC. Those are 9 years ago and Wikipedia policy is not stable. PhotographyEdits (talk) 14:39, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

  It's not intended as an argument; it's links to previous discussions and my summary of what the consensus was at that time. I am aware that consensus can change. — Diannaa (talk) 14:55, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

  Okay! Though the last discussion (which you did not linked) resulted in a no consensus, so it's not completely true that it has been consistent consensus against a title change. PhotographyEdits (talk) 09:17, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

• Comment. "D-Day" alone is probably a little too ambiguous, but something like "D-Day invasion" would probably be fine. Rreagan007 (talk) 19:42, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose as proposed. Although the evidence proffered by Toddy1 convinces me that D-Day is likely the most common name for this operation, WP:RECOGNIZABILITY is not based wholly on the commonness of a name; I think that Mathglot's point about "Normandy landings" being understandable to a wider audience is also worth considering. The potential ambiguities with other D-Days, and the more colloquial nature of the term "D-Day" in contrast to "Normandy landings", also incline me to lean in favor of the status quo. I think you could make a reasonably strong case for "D-Day landings" as a title, as it circumvents some of the concerns I have about "D-Day" alone. However, on the whole, I think retaining the status quo ("Normandy landings" as title, "D-Day" as redirect) is ultimately the best solution. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 22:19, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
• Support per nom, clear COMMONNAME.--Ortizesp (talk) 07:22, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
• Support per nom and sources, clearly the most COMMONNAME since the 90s. Tellingly, the article itself only refers to Normandy landings 13 times, but D-Day 60. D-Day is listed in 18 of the article sources, Normandy landings only 1. If "the sources in an article shows that one name or version of the name stands out as clearly the most commonly used in the English language, we should follow the sources and use it." WP:EN Tom B (talk) 12:09, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

Oppose per @Diannaa Estar8806 (talk) 17:34, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. Like the previous RM discussions, I am concerned that "D-Day" by itself is still not a precise term. It is just best to error on retaining the current article title that has been stable enough for all these years. Zzyzx11 (talk) 17:58, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose. D-Day is not precise enough and most serious historians refer to the landings as the Normandy landings. Nobody is denying that "D-Day landings" is commonly used, but the current title is also common and far more precise. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:33, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose For all the reasons discussed here, and the last time, and the time before that. Wiki-Ed (talk) 23:00, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 2 March 2024

Hi I am George P III, and I want to edit this article as I am an expert in my field. Also, just to let you know I've been studying this specific subject for about 5 years so it would be great if I can edit and give some extra but important information. Besides being an expert, I am a scientist and archiologist with 30 years of experience in science and 28 years in archiology. So if you want any additional information on the Normandy landings and what the Germans did to defend the French land they forcefully took over. AnonymousSushiMan (talk) 00:17, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

^OK AnonymousSushiMan (talk) 00:21, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

ok AnonymousSushiMan (talk) 00:22, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

OK AnonymousSushiMan (talk) 00:23, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone may add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. Jamedeus (talk) 00:26, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Size of force

"The Normandy landings were the largest seaborne invasion in history" Beevor 2009 p74. Only that is not what the reference states on p74. It states the largest sea force assembled in history, then lists the number of ships. Earlier on p72 Beevor states that it was the largest amphibious assault attempted - whether that attempt relates to WW2 or in history is not clarified. The two relevant pages need to be correctly cited, else we have the current POV. Additionally, other secondary sources should be used to support such a key statement in the article. Also, a comparison should be drawn with the invasion of Sicily, which had a similar number of troops in the initial assault (according to WP Sicily had 4,000 more troops) with more tanks, artillery etc during the landing. 182.239.146.143 (talk) 23:33, 21 March 2024 (UTC)