Wikipedia:Administrative action review

Administrative action review (XRV/AARV) determines whether use of the administrator tools or other advanced permissions is consistent with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Any action (or set of related actions) involving a tool not available to all confirmed editors—except those covered by another, more specific review process—may be submitted here for community review. The purpose of an administrative review discussion is to reach a consensus on whether a specific action was appropriate, not to assign blame. It is not the place to request comment on an editor's general conduct, to seek retribution or removal of an editor's advanced permissions, or to quibble about technicalities.

To request an administrative action review, please first read the "Purpose" section to make sure that it is in scope. Then, follow the instructions below.

Purpose

Administrative action review may be used to request review of:

1. an administrator action
2. an action using an advanced permission

Administrative action review should not be used:

1. to request an appeal or review of an action with a dedicated review process

   For review of page deletions or review of deletion discussion closures, use Wikipedia:Deletion review (DRV)

   For review of page moves, use Wikipedia:Move review (MRV)

2. to ask to remove a user's permissions:

   Permissions granted at WP:PERM may be revoked by an administrator if XRV finds them to be misused.

   Repeated or egregious misuse of permissions may form the basis of an administrators' noticeboard or incidents noticeboard report, or a request for arbitration, as appropriate.

3. to argue technicalities and nuances (about what the optimal action would have been, for example), outside of an argument that the action was inconsistent with policy.
4. to ask for a review of arbitration enforcement actions. Such reviews must be done at arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE"), at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN"), or directly to the Arbitration Committee at the amendment requests page ("ARCA").
5. for urgent incidents and chronic, intractable behavioural problems; use Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents ("ANI") instead
6. for serious, entrenched or persistent disputes and cases of rule-breaking; use Wikipedia:Arbitration ("ArbCom") instead
7. for a block marked with any variation of {{CheckUser block}}, {{OversightBlock}}, or {{ArbComBlock}}; Contact the Arbitration Committee instead
8. to attack other editors, cast aspersions, or make accusations of bias. Such requests may be speedily closed.

Instructions
Initiating a review

1. Before listing a review request, try to resolve the matter by discussing it with the performer of the action.
2. Start a new discussion by clicking the button below and filling in the preloaded template.
3. Notify the performer of the action of the discussion.

   You must leave a notice on the editor's talk page. You may use {{subst:XRV-notice}} for this purpose.

   Use of the notification system is not sufficient.

Start a new discussion

Participating in a discussion
Any editor in good standing may request a review or participate in discussing an action being reviewed. Participation is voluntary. The goal of the discussion is to determine whether the action is consistent with Wikipedia's policies. Contributions that are off-topic may be removed by any uninvolved administrator. You may choose to lead your comment with a bold and bulleted endorse or not endorsed/overturn, though any helpful comment is welcome. Please add new comments at the bottom of the discussion.

Closing a review
Reviews can be closed by any uninvolved administrator after there has been sufficient discussion and either a consensus has been reached, or it is clear that no consensus will be reached. Do not rush to close a review: while there is no fixed minimum time, it is expected that most good faith requests for review will remain open for at least a few days.

The closer should summarize the consensus reached in the discussion and clearly state whether the action is endorsed, not endorsed, or if there is no consensus.

After a review
Any follow-up outcomes of a review are deferred to existing processes. Individual actions can be reversed by any editor with sufficient permissions. Permissions granted at WP:PERM may be revoked by an administrator.

Closed reviews will be automatically archived after a period of time. Do not archive reviews that have not been formally closed.

Undue 48-Hour Block by Bbb23

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Action: 48-Hour Ban of MiztuhX

User: Bbb23 (talk · contribs · logs) (Editor did not respond to comments by ~ ToBeFree (talk), SnowRise ^{let's rap} and myself.)

I am asking that my block be reviewed because there was a discrepancy in the timing of our respective replies. I was writing a reply to Trailblazer101 when Bbb23 was posting his original decision. When I posted the reply, I was able to read the decision that I was close to being banned. I logged out. It was only a few hours later when I logged back in that I became aware of the second decision that my account was banned, which I believe Bbb23 mistook as a challenge to his original decision. In closing, I did not reply to challenge or provoke Bbb23's decision; my reply was directed as a reply to Trailblazer101, but the timing of our respective posts prevented my awareness of Bbb23's decision, otherwise I would not have replied. Another editor ~ToBeFree l opined: "I find your explanation convincing: You didn't see the final warning." O replied: "Since the original decision was a warning and it has been recognized that an edit conflict was the cause of the discrepancy, then the original decision of a warning should be honored in the name of fairness and accuracy. Issuing a block retroactively has no justification if the original administrator already determined that a warning was sufficient. This only leads to conflicting claims between the two administrators and confusion with regards to WP rules since they appear to not be applied equitably." I contacted Bbb23 for his review under WP:TOOLMISUSE. Editor SnowRose also commented. I request that the 48-hour ban be lifted also stricken from my record. I will notify Bbb23 (talk) on his talk page MiztuhX (talk) 21:17, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

• I don't really have much to say. I agreed with ToBeFree's comments about the block and his action amending the block log. Unfortunately, instead of taking TBF's advice, MiztuhX came here.--Bbb23 (talk) 21:31, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

  The original response was a warning. Bbb23 changed it to a 48-hour block justifying it due to my my reply to another editor which he mistook as a challenge to his authority and subsequentchanging of a warning to a 48-hour ban that was not fair and retroactive due to edit conflict based on timing of responses and not a direct challenge. I ask for ban to be lifted and stricken from my record because it was not justified in the original review by Bbb23.. MiztuhX (talk) 21:49, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

  Another bothersome aspect of this situation, ~ ToBeFree (talk) Bbb23 (talk) is that the former unilaterally agreed that the text "after being warned" should be removed and the latter endorsed it. I ask: under what authority? Admins do not "decide what people see". An admin who deletes anything can only do so after a consensus has been reached: in accordance with the communal decision. Likewise, admins implement a standard of editorship and use of blocking and protection which has already gained consensus via a discussion, which never happened with regards to the initial warning; it was just one editor deleting text unilaterally and the action being sanctioned by a second admin. All this subsequent conflating by other admins of the degree of disruption that justified the warning and the block, and whether the line separating the two was crossed, etc. only serves as a cover for the real issue: all policies apply to administrators exactly as they would to any other user – if not more so: Adminship is not a game WP:ANOT#GAME and I state this with the full knowledge that all administrators make mistakes at one time or another. Nobody is perfect. MiztuhX (talk) 04:01, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

  I ask: under what authority?: Admins are entrusted with the tools, but they are still accountable for their actions. I'm not sure where you are going with this. Do you want "after being warned" added back to the log?—Bagumba (talk) 06:58, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

• Endorse we don't strike block logs from people's records as a rule, and even if we did ex-post-facto analsyis of the sort ToBeFree did (and I agree with) would not be anywhere near sufficient. Given the comment I almost pblocked you now from editing the article and the Talk page because of your behavior it's clear that while you may have drawn a shorter that usual last straw due to timing I can't call the block so wrong it needs to be overturned. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 21:57, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

  Under [[WP: TOOLMISUSE]] Bbb23's initial assessment was under :Common situations where avoiding tool use is often required:

  • Communal norms or policies – When a policy or communal norm is clear that tools should not be used, then tools should not be used without an explanation that shows the matter has been considered, and why a (rare) exception is genuinely considered reasonable.

  The (rare) exception in this case was to issue a warning, arrived at by the original Administrator.

  Furthermore,

  • Reversing the actions of other administrators – Only in a manner that respects the admin whose action is involved, and (usually) after consultation.

  Other administratos are not empowered by WP policy to reverse the original administrator's (Bbb 23) decision to issue a warning, If Bbb23 changed his original decision based on a clear error (as evidenced by ToBeFree's assessment) then any other editor who also endorses the 48-hour ban is also violating that a "rare exception is genuinely considered reasonable" clause as noted above. Finally, Snowflake's comment: "I'm sure it would mean something to them to see it noted in the block log that the block was lifted because it wasn't found absolutely necessary at this juncture" lends credence that Bbb23's original decision of a warning was the correct one. MiztuhX (talk) 22:42, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

  Hello MiztuhX, the section above hasn't been archived yet and seems to be similar enough to point this out (courtesy ping Thinker78). In a nutshell, I see (again) a lot of arguing about policy wording et cetera to complain about a short block for disruptive behavior. This is quickly becoming disruptive by itself, and the time could be better spent doing the things described at the Task Center and the community portal. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 22:47, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

  Hi. Thank you for your input. My main concern is to not have my record blemished by a ban that was not merited. I am not challenging consensus if and when it is achieved; i am opening this situation for a general discussion and see where it leads and will following Wikipedia policy accordingly with regards to this issue. MiztuhX (talk) 23:09, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

  Let's be mindful ~ ToBeFree (talk), that "the goal of the discussion is to determine whether the action is consistent with Wikipedia's policies and whether there has been a misuse of administrativetools; and not to be "disruptive." MiztuhX (talk) 00:26, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

  The block has already expired, there's nothing more to be gained, they don't do expungements or annulments here. Even if the block was handed down for a technically erroneous reason, it sounds like the matter of your poor behavior was leading to a block anyways. Advice - drop this, go back to article writing. Zaathras (talk) 02:10, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

  I still have not received an adequate explanation by administrators like Bbb23 (talk), ~ ToBeFree (talk), etc. as to why my account was banned for 48 hours when only a warning was issued initially. This "slippery slope" argument being used to justify my 48-hour ban just because disruptive behavior was mentioned seems arbitrary and unfair. Under WP:ADMINACCT, I am free to question or to criticize administrator actions... and administrators [should] justify (and explain) their actions when requested in case of WP:TOOLMISUSE and alleged Administrator Abuse. MiztuhX (talk) 03:48, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

  I already provided all the explanations needed from my personal side. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 06:34, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

  I didn't think we could expunge a block. Has this changed? Doug Weller talk 08:43, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

  Nothing has changed and it remains impossible to edit or remove entries from a block log. Very rarely we will make a short (typically 1 second) block with a summary that notes the preceding block was overturned (or vacated, etc) but I don't see consensus to do that here. Thryduulf (talk) 14:57, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

• Endorse MiztuhX, you earned that block. You filed a false edit warring report, and demonstrated pointlessly BATTLEGROUND behavior in your associated conduct. Complaining about the technicalities on the timing got you an amended block log entry, a courtesy not often extended, and you're here asking for more. If what has already been done isn't sufficient for you, I suggest you may want to reconsider your approach to editing Wikipedia. Jclemens (talk) 06:56, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

  That is a non sequitur; my disruptive behavior (which I will no longer engage in) merited a warning, not a block. I filed what I thought was a 3RR; I argued my points and did not engage in BG behavior. I did not "complain" but addressed the inconsistencies of the actions taken by Bbb23. I am here wondering why Bbb23 issued a block after having issued a warning, when I had repied to Trailblazer101 and not directly to him. If it was done in error, it would be nice to get an apology because I served a block of 48 hours from editing on Wikipedia; but there was no corresponding correction on the Administrator side, other than deletion of three words: I have removed the text "after being warned." I acknowledge that neither of us are to blame for this mishap. But recall that under Enforcement, "Administrators, like all editors, are not perfect beings. However, in general, they are expected to act as role models within the community, and a good general standard of civility, fairness, and general conduct both to editors and in content matters, is expected." So, an apology from Bbb23 (talk) would go a long way to quashing this. MiztuhX (talk) 08:49, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

  If an apology should be forthcoming, I don't think Bbb23 needs to be the one to make it. But by all means... keep digging. Jclemens (talk) 08:51, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

• Endorse MiztuhX, you were not banned. You were blocked briefly and the block has expired. Bans and blocks are different things. At this point, instead of returning to improving the encyclopedia, you are quibbling about trivialities while misunderstanding the technicalities of your expired block. You may not yet realize it, but that is a very bad look. Please reconsider. Cullen328 (talk) 07:00, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
• Speedy endorse. Block would have been a good block at the time of the warning. Issuing the block after the warning and before another real cause for the block, potentially unnecessarily (but the two days' break which occurred still seems like not a net negative thing to me), due to an edit conflict is a technicality. And per WP:XRVPURPOSE, this forum should not be used to argue technicalities.—Alalch E. 08:34, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

• endorse block Appellant needs to learn better ways of handling the type of situation that led to the behavior that led to the block. The lack of insight into the the behavior that led to the block is troubling, and I hope the problem behavior does not recur.-- Deepfriedokra (talk) 14:41, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

  We don't apologize for making good blocks. I've always had a problem with the meaning of the word "tendentious," but I wonder if it apples? -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 14:43, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

• Endorse block I wasted a half hour reading Talk:Superman_(1978_film) and what I found was MiztuhX using the talk page as a cudgel, in what is obviously textbook tendentious editing. The lack of clue here is astonishing. Walls of text, refusal to get the point or accept consensus is against them, constantly saying the same thing over and over, only slightly rewording it. MiztuhX is going to get indef blocked if they don't stop doing that, and this 48 hour block should be seen as a shot across the bow. The next block will be longer. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 02:31, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
• Endorse block Complaint reads like technolawyering. Lectonar (talk) 14:52, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
• Endorse block I was writing a reply to Trailblazer101 when Bbb23 was posting his original decision. When I posted the reply, I was able to read the decision that I was close to being banned. I logged out.: Even if there was an edit conflict, they said they saw Bbb23's initial reply. Could have simply reverted at that point, as some time passed after until the actual block. And I didn't see any acknowledgement during the appeal that they understood that they were making personal attacks.—Bagumba (talk) 16:54, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

  i was not aware that replying to Traillazer101 would bring on an additional reprisal from Bbb23. Can anybody enlighten me if there is WP policy rule that addresses this because I am unaware of it. Anyway, when I began typing, I waa responding solely to Trailblazer's reply. When I was done, I saw that I had been warned by Bbb23, and I logged out., thinking that was the end of that situation. Nowhere didi Bbb23 mention that I would be blocked if I responded to his post or Trailblazer's post. So, I discovered that my account had been blocked, and the reasons for it, after the fact. Finally, as to your comment: "I didn't see any acknowledgement during the appeal that they understood that they were making personal attacks," I said, in a reply above, "That is a non sequitur; my disruptive behavior (which I will no longer engage in) merited a warning, not a block." I was trying to add befor I received an edit conflict from Deepfriedokra that: Also, I realize this looks like walls of text and is repetitive, but I was politely answering Bagumba's questions/ comments MiztuhX (talk) 21:30, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

  @MiztuhX: Blocking a disruptive user is not reprisal. It is done to stop disruption. And I think it was clear before your reply a block was needed. Your whole attitude is not only troubling in and of itself, it also offers no indication that you have insight into how you were disruptive. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 21:39, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

  Wrong word choice. MiztuhX (talk) 00:34, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

  And I didn't see any acknowledgement during the appeal...: To clarify, I was referring to its absence for a potential unblock during the blocked period, not that it was a reason for the block itself. —Bagumba (talk) 01:44, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

  @MiztuhX: This seems like a classic case that every editor

  faces, when they are positive they are right but nobody else gets it. However, as a crowd-sourced platform, WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT applies. Looking at User talk:MiztuhX § Help me!, I believe JBW was subtly saying it was you who should drop the stick, but I think you missed it. —Bagumba (talk) 02:12, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

• If this were an AfD or any other such thing it would have been closed per SNOW already. MiztuhX, I don't think this is going to go anywhere, at least not anywhere you might like to go. I strongly recommend you not pursue this any further. Drmies (talk) 01:51, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Indefinite TPA revocation for “proxying while blocked”

Action: Indefinite talk page access revocation [1]

User: Doug Weller (talk · contribs · logs) (prior discussion)

I’m opening this XRV on behalf of a senior editor who has lost their editing privileges. Those familiar with the situation will know that I’m not a fan of the AE process that led to the editor’s siteban by boomerang, nor of the subsequent appeal rejection. However, this XRV is not about relitigating the AE case but about the recent decision by Doug Weller (reaffirmed by Yamla in UTRS #86485) to indefinitely revoke the editor’s talk page access.

The reason for the TPA revoke (effectively a permaban) was given as: it makes little sense for an indefinitely blocked editor to be discussing anything with other editors... [2] Doug has also stated his views about this case at Wikipedia_talk:User_pages#Proxying_while_blocked. However, the consensus in that discussion leaned toward a less codified, more relaxed stance, as exemplified by Bishonen’s comment.

EXHIBIT A: Sennalen's Talk since her December 2023 siteban

REMEDY REQ.: Restoration of TPA privileges

Respectfully submitted, XMcan (talk) 00:39, 14 April 2024 (UTC)