Talk:Hot dog

Deutschund in estrus and from the city of Hamburg

Is this data accurate? The Hot Dog is not only "any purple sausage with a bun" but the sausage itself? I mean in Peru a colloquialism has been born of calling the part after the whole;(hey that sounded pretty smart) In the streets many call the kind of meat used for hamburguers to by it's original alternate names but "hamburguer" which makes the traditional "hamburguer" be their version of what "hamburguer" means plus buns... Likewise any sausage can be called a hotdog or, like some do, "jodoc" (with the "j" being pronounced as the h)... But is it accurate that there's a kind of sausage that is a true hot dog? Isn't this just another version of the confusion between the piece and the whole?Herle King 21:50, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Dachshund, or, as we say in Germany, Dackel, has always been compared to the form of our WURST, which is predominantly served hot and on a "Brötchen" (bun), therefore it is very possible, that the German butcher, Charles Feltman, called his first product, that was eaten at first from German immigrants in New York, "ein heißer Hund" = a hot dog! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.140.97.202 (talk) 23:08, 30 April 2007 (UTC).

Safe to Eat Uncooked Untrue

I was watching a show on Discovery Health Channel where this boy scout ate a uncooked hotdog because he was hungry, and didn't want to wait for it to be cooked. Hours later, he got severe stomach pain and was hanging on for life. He survived. The culprit Listeriosis. Check here: http://www.ehso.com/ehshome/FoodSafety/foodslisterisosis.php Despite common belief, hot dogs are not safe to eat uncooked. You have the same risk of getting sick as eating an uncooked egg. This article misleading says otherwise. (User Hysteria2424) 17:41, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Picture with Hotdog

Why is the lead picture a picture of gourmet hot dogs? That seems, I dunno, retarded!

The Picture should show a hotdog with mustard as it is much more common and putting ketchup on hotdogs is a rare oddity. Such as julian peirce getting action

Not rare at all here in NY State--Saxophobia 02:11, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm from the Eastern US and I can assure you that around here awsome PEE ketchup / catsup is by no means a rare condiment on a hot dog. JohnCub 22:38, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

What is a Polish dog?

A kielbasa. - knoodelhed 10:17, 13 Mar 2004 (UTC)

a hot dog from poland

I've never heard a hot dog referred to as a "tube steak"

Me either, but a Google search shows it used this way, so i think it's legit. Foobaz·✐ 23:26, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

---

tube steak has been around for many years -- but it's used facetiously....hey its a tube its a steak, looks a little peachy but whatever!! Hayford Peirce 16:58, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I remember reading an article on "hashhouse slang"; basically, the argot of the old-fashioned formica-and-vinyl-booth diner; apparently it is the origin of such terms as "hold" for "omit" (as in "hold the onions"), "BLT" for bacon-lettuce-tomato sandwich, etc. Their term for beans and wieners was "tube steak and repeaters." --SigPig 05:33, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

---

Good, it's about time there was a decent picture of a hot dog here.... Hayford Peirce 19:54, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

cancer

Are not hot dogs rumored to cause cancer? This article seems overly positive, I kind of thought it would talk about the criticism hot dogs receive today.

Name change?

I just reverted 152.163.100.130's blanking of the page. But, before he blanked it completely, he redirected it to Frankfurter. Is this a common name for hot dogs outside of the USA? If so, i think that may be a more appropriate name for the article, because as the article states, they are named hot dogs for political reasons. Foobaz·✐ 23:12, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

As an Australian, I've always called and heard the particular kind of sausage used in hotdogs called a frankfurts (or franks, with the adjective 'skinless' when they don't have the red skins). 'Hot dog' (or 'dog') refers to a frankfurt in a (long/hotdog) roll. I've never heard them called 'frankfurters', but I've seen it written often enough. If it's not a frankfurt, it's not a hotdog; bratwurst in a roll is just bratwurst, or a normal everyday sausage in a roll is just a sausage in a roll (though usually sausages go in bread, not rolls). I would never've called a hotdog a sandwich, though, like in the intro to the article, but I suspect that's a difference in my definition of sandwich; if you offered me a sausage sandwich I would think you sliced up a piece of sausage and put it between two slices of bread, perhaps with some other condiments. 203.82.183.147 10:11, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I would have said they are clearly different things. A 'frankfurter' is a particular type of sausage, in the UK they are commonly sold in tins and cooked by boiling (however I would be surprised if these were considered authentic in Germany). Meanwhile a 'hot dog' is a dish of a sausage served in a long bun.

Sausage-in-a-bun has traditionally been referred to just by the name of the sausage. Obviously, a Hot dog not made with a frankfurter sausage can't be called a frankfurter.

I think it's quite funny actually. Originally, the sausage was all that mattered, then someone came up with a term for "sausage-in-a-bun" and now the actual sausage seems to become secondary. I mean, just read the following comments. A Hot dog can be any kind of preparation of and kind of of sausage with unspecified condiments. 82.135.86.52 17:36, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

The confusion perhaps arises because the frankfurter is the most common sausage used for making hot dogs in many areas (at least in New York, although it is not true where I live where grilled sausage hot dogs are much more common). As such frankfurters are also sometimes refered to as hot dogs even when not served in a bun. Oh, and that suggests the frankfurter disambig page is wrong to point back here. A better guide is to be had at h2g2. -- Solipsist 22:11, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Indeed. In my British experience, hot dogs can be made with just about any kind of sausage. Sometimes a frankfurter, sometimes a soft sausage a little thicker than (what I know as) a frankfurter (typically labelled as "hot dog sausages"), sometimes a typical grilled/fried/barbecued/whatever sausage. -- Smjg 08:59, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Gimme a break, these are HOT DOGS not frankfurters. They've been called HOT DOGS for a century or so. Just as we wouldn't change French Fries to Freedom Fries cause Georgie B says so we also aren't going to change HOT DOGS to some out-of-date hickville term like frankfurters cause some bloke down underwhere says thats what his mommy calls them. Times change, buddy. And Australia has a grand total of 20 million people, half of them speaking English as a third language. (comment added by User:155.91.19.73 01:35, 26 Apr 2005 -- Solipsist 09:41, 11 May 2005 (UTC) )

George Bush never said anything about changing the name of french fries. It was just some crazy people who went wild against the French. Also the president's name happens to be George W. Bush not "Georgie B"

In New York they are most often called Franks, and that is what they have always been called at the frankfurter meccas of Nathan's and (the long gone) Feltman's as well as at any Kosher deli. Ditto the most popular cart franks by Sabrett's. The better variety of all of the forgoing have natural casings. "Hot dog" in NYC suggests the more bologna-like soft "skinless" sausage popular in a lot of the heartland. New Yorker's may not eat anywhere near the majority of franks/hot dogs in America, but we know our bun stuffings. Put it another way, if you put ketchup (or worse "catsup") on it, it's a hot dog, if you put mustard on it, as nature intended, it's a frank. -- Cecropia | explains it all ® 20:48, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

... ... There ıs a book that should be cıted: Title: Origin of the term "hot dog" / Gerald Leonard Cohen, Barry A. Popik, David Shulman. Imprint Rolla, MO : G. Cohen, 2004.

Well, I see that Mr. Cohen does write books on word origins, such as "shyster" but I can't find the existence of a "hot dog" book on amazon or bookfinder. Do you have an ISBN? I know there are lots of books on esoterica, but a whole book on the name "hot dog" takes the cake (or the bun). A web page maybe. -- Cecropia 18:41, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

... ... New York Publıc Lıbrary: http://catnyp.nypl.org/search/aCohen%2C+Gerald+Leonard%2C+1941-/acohen+gerald+leonard+1941-/-2%2C-1%2C0%2CB/frameset&FF=acohen+gerald+leonard+1941-&3%2C%2C5 ... ... UMR News and Research: UMR professor writes book on origin of 'hot ... Dr. Gerald Cohen, a professor of foreign languages at the University of Missouri-Rolla, has just published a 300-page book Origin of the Term 'Hot Dog' ... news.umr.edu/research/2004/527.html - 16k - Önbellek - Benzer sayfalar ... ... Kansas City Star | 04/02/2006 | Frankfurter, she wrote: Hot dog ... Gerald Cohen spent more than one-third of his life doing research on the hot dog and finally published a book on it in 2004. Surprisingly, he doesn’t like ... www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/14218513.htm - 33k - Önbellek - Benzer sayfalar

Spent 1/3 of his life researching hot dogs, and publishes a book... Yikes! Anyway, the book doesn't seem to be available yet. -- Cecropia 19:55, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

... ... It was publıshed ın 2004. It ıs ın the New York Publıc Lıbrary and other lıbrarıes. I have read ıt and ıt ıs a weıner.

Kosher hot dogs

I changed the wording mentioned kosher hot dogs, which had several misconceptions. First, most consumers seeking kosher food in the U.S. and apparently other nations as well are no longer Jewish, no less observant Jews. Among other consumers who knowingly purchase Kosher foods are vegetarians (because of Pareve), Seventh-Day Adventists, some Muslims when they can't obtain what they want in Halal (dietary law is similar though not identical), and many consumers who perceive Kosher foods as being safer or of higher quality. BTW, an observant Jew almost certainly wouldn't buy a kosher hot dog at a sports stadium for lack of confidence in how it was prepared and handled. In fact, I have a Muslim friend in Brooklyn who won't eat at a Kosher restaurant until he's seen who certified the Kosher cert. No joke. -- Cecropia | explains it all ® 20:40, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

I think also the part about sheep intestine as used for hot dogs not being Kosher is more a part of the factories prepering this not having a Kosher certificat, because sheep intestine in itself is perfectly Kosher if the rules have been observed. So natural-casing hot dogs can be Kosher if all the rules are observed.

I'd like to remind or possibbly enlighten people that Kosher laws don't apply just for the origin of the meat (i.e pork being non Kosher etc), but also the condition of the animal before dying, the way it was slaughtered and the blood drained from the body and whether or not all the other tools being used to prepare and cook the meat have been Kosher certified (i.e you mustn't have slaughtered a pig with the knife prior to it, or at least thoroughly cleaned it beforehand- and yes, there are yet more laws on how to clean the knife). So that's the real reason why so-called Kosher hot dogs in, say, stadiums, are still suspect at being non Kosher.

There's actually no law against using the same knife on a pig, and no, this wouldn't require more than the usual cleaning afterwards. But it would be very odd to do so. A chalef (kosher slaughtering knife) is an expensive and delicate instrument, and I can't imagine any circumstances in which a slaughterer would allow someone to use it for any purpose other than kosher slaughter. There would be no real point, and too much risk of damaging it. But yes, there are laws about preparing the knife and maintaining its edge. -- Zsero (talk) 15:32, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Regional Variations

After we get some more entries in this section, I was thinking about spinning it off into its own article. does that sound cool to everyone? Youngamerican 19:34, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I added something about White Hots and Red Hots. Here in Upstate New York, we have two types of hot dogs. Whenever I travel, people have no idea what I mean, but if you have ever had a white hot, then you would know it is a different type of hot dog and not a sausage. They can also be called Pork (White) or Texas (Red) Hots. Many restraunts around here offer both types. - martianpenguin

Why does Youngamerican keep deleting my information about Hoffman franks in Upstate NY? Information about the most popular brands in NYC and Zweigles in Rochester gets to stay, but what's considered the best brand in Central NY can't be identified because of "Wikipedia policies"? That is highly inconsistent.

• When did I do that? I have never deleted anything on Central NY. Check the edit history more carefully. Some of the regions I put up were deleted, too, and I re-added those. Feel free to put upstate new york or anywhere else you want. Youngamerican 19:19, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
• I checked the edit history, and I think you are mixing me up with jtmichcock. he is the person that used the term "wikipedia policies" Youngamerican 19:33, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

You are correct. My apologies.

After some edits, I'm researching how dogs are eaten in various parts of the American South. I've been trying to get this as specific as possible and thank everyone for their contributions. Youngamerican 12:45, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

I have reverted my previous edit of the Germanic countries paragraph (originally written by me to describe the Danish hot dog, but coopted first to cover the entirety of Europe, and then next to cover the Germanic countries). I was corrected by a native Dane, and therefore I reverted the text back to the Germanic countries, and inserted a separate paragraph specific to Denmark. Accoding to Danish standards, what is described in the Germanic paragraph is not at all a "hot dog", but a "sausage". A hot dog, after Danish standards, must be eaten on the bun, and is really a "sandwich type" (although there is a "hot dog sausage" too, but which when eaten held in the fingers is called a "red sausage"). Other sausages (such as a knækker) served on a bun would also be called a knækker hot dog because it is served hot dog-style. If what is described in the German paragraph is indeed a generic sausage and not a "hot dog", then perhaps we should question it's appropriateness here in this article. Sfdan 17:35, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

Red dogs? as a Maine version? I am a Mainer, on the coast, and I have never heard that term.--Dumarest 21:13, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

After some more research, it appears to me that JTMitchcock continuously deleted my comments last year because of ignorance and arrogance. He somehow believes that it's not NPOV to mention that Hofmann's brand is considered by many to be the best in Central New York. If he would only do some research (Google the brand), he would be disabused of this notion. While some people around these parts may disagree that it's the best, even they will admit that most others do think so. It is famous around these parts, the preferred brand of almost every street vendor and Heids (who lost a lot of business when they switched to another brand for a few years), whether JTMitchcock likes to think so or not. Newspaper articles he can easily find online if he only cared to look would confirm that. Not only inside CNY, but people in other regions routinely mention Hofmann's in online forums dedicated to hot dogs. But Mitchcock is too busy already knowing everything about all hot dogs around the world. --24.92.241.215 20:53, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Is the "Dodger Dog" truly "world famous"? This doesn't seem NPOV. I know I've never heard of it, nor has anyone I know. 24.92.241.215 23:53, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

It's pretty famous. I've heard of it and I'm not even close to Los Angeles. In the regional variations section, the NPOV rule tends to get stretched a bit since it's the one area you can talk about "your" hot dog. Jtmichcock 01:44, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Recipie removed

Argue if you choose. Wikipedia isn't a place for general lists of information. I may be misinformed, so tell me if so. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 04:14, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it has long been established that recipes go in [Wikisource]. -- Solipsist 05:47, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

NPOV Definition

I changed the definition at the top so there was some reference to what a hot dog is. It was reverted. My new definition read:

"A hot dog is the reprocessed flesh of dead non-human animals, classified as a type of sausage or, alternatively, a sandwich on a suitably shaped bun with the sausage and condiments on it."

This is a literal description of what a hot dog is. There is nothing "NPOV and redundant" about it. If someone disagrees, please make your comment here. Otherwise I am reverting back to my change.

• Above was by User:Cogent 15:09, 6 Jun 2005

"Flesh" and "dead" have negative connotations. "Meat" would suffice, but "sausage" already means all of that. "Non-human animals" is redundant, and is also implied by "meat" or "sausage". If someone really doesn't know what a sausage is, they can click the "sausage" link. If you want to expose the hidden truth that meat is made out of dead animals, I think the Meat page would be a more appropriate place to do it.DenisMoskowitz 15:38, 2005 Jun 6 (UTC)

Human are animals so, despite agreeing with the rest Ido have to say that it is not "redundant"71.237.226.28 00:56, 26 January 2007 (UTC)anonymous

"Dead" is redundant; if it's been processed, it's dead. intooblv 03:36, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

if it is only "implied" by "meat" or "sausage" than it obviously is not redundant

Michigan

I added a piece on the michigan hot dog and I also wrote an article on the Michigan.

Not to doubt your hard work, but I've lived in Quebec (and a rather Francophone part of the province) for ten years and it's always been "un chili dog." Nobody but NOBODY calls them 'chiens chaud', in case somebody is wondering. MattShepherd 20:26, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

other meanings

added a culture reference to "chili dog" that i have heard from numerous sources. it was removed as "vandalism" but i'm adding it back in

Try listing it under "chili dog (sex act)." It does not belong in the hotdog article, however. Youngamerican 14:17, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Type "chili dog" in the search box. you come to this page. if wikipedia puts people here for chili dog, this is where it should be.

If anything, make a disambiguation link at the top of this page. DenisMoskowitz 19:58, 2005 August 12 (UTC)

Meat type

Hot dogs are usually made of beef or a mixture of beef and pork
And what kind of beef or pork? Shoulder? Sirloin? Liver? Offal? This article needs more information about the composition of the hot dog. -Timvasquez 00:32, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

• USDA rules are pretty strict in one respect -- if you use offal you have to indicate it on the label. It isn't usually done because of the labeling requirements. Now the issue of fat content is a little different -- I've heard some shady stuff goes on there regarding meat/fat ratios, but unfortunately that isn't a labeling issue according to the rules. As far as the actual cuts of meat used, probably a lot of scraps and cutter/canner grade stuff, nothing specific -- you don't really need high-quality meat to make a decent hot dog. Or a hamburger for that matter. Haikupoet 04:10, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Here's another point I'd like to throw out, and something that my family has obsessed over for almost a decade. Don't most standard skinless hot dogs contain pork, beef, and chicken (and/or turkey in some cases)? In my area there only a few brands here and there at the supermarket that don't put poultry in their hot dogs.--SHFan06 22:50, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

I've changed the terribly vague "vegetarian ingredients" to "meat analogue," which is a valid and useful Wikipedia article. Somebody has reverted this before, and I honestly don't understand why they're so squeamish about the term. It's precise and the article has useful information, unlike the previously linked vegetarianism article which tells all about the reasons for the practice but not what might be in the hot dogs. -- 24.92.241.215 09:55, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

This article has serious issues

It reads more like a "lifestyle" story from a weekend magazine than an encyclopedia article. There's no real defintion of the sausage (i.e. what parts of animals it's made of, how it is made, etc), there's no history before it came to America (or indeed outside of USA after 1904). Maybe an extended intro would do the trick? Zocky 01:44, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

If I may also add, focus has been placed higher on condiments accompanying the hot dog, than on the hot dog itself. Perhaps to break out all the condiments talk into a separate subhead, and the ketchup debate subordinate to the condiments subsection. In any case information in the "Preparation and basic variations" section could be broken out into more clearly defined sections. Its a hodge-podge at best right now. --SFDan 05:22, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

It might also be time to spin the whole regional variation section into a new article, perhaps.(?) Youngamerican 12:51, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

I am likely going to be researching and making a project of this page over the next few days (i've worked on the Coney Island links and this is a natural progression). I have been plagued by slow response time on Wikipedia, which has been driving me crazy. I don't believe regional variations needs its own page, it works where it's at as long as the rest of the stuff comports. The Ketchup debate -- however -- belongs on the discussion page. Jtmichcock

I reintroduced the ketchup debate to the article. "The Ketchup Debate" is not itself a discussion, but rather documentation of a debate that exists in much of the US (no doubt the world's largest consumer of hotdogs). Jtmichcock, please let me know if you disagree (and if so, why). As a sidenote, though, I wouldn't mind seeing the Royko and Dirty Harry bits moved to Wikiquote perhaps. --Nuffle 20:30, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

I previously moved the ketchup on hot dog debate to the Talk page (I notic it's miussing but can obviously be retrieved). While the quotes were amusing, they were discursive from the general topic. It may well be that the debate deserves its own topic, "Ketchup on Hot Dogs," perhaps, with a link under "The Ketchup Debate" header. I'm certain that there are other communities besides Chicago that have opinions on the topic. Jtmichcock 21:47, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Done. The Ketchup Debate now has its own page Ketchup on Hot Dogs

Thanks! --Nuffle 20:38, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Split?

I was thinking, maybe we should split this into Frankfurter for the sausage and Hot dog for the sandwich, heavily interlinked of course? The current text from Frankfurter could go to Frankfurter (dissambiguation). Zocky 10:36, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

The problem is that both frankfurter and hot dog can describe the meat or the meat and bun. The more "common" usage in the U.S. is to say hot dog. While most people understand what a frankfurter is, the expression "would you like a hamburger or a hot dog?" is familiar; "would you like a hamburger or a frankfurter?" is not. For clarity, it would be best to have frankfurter direct over to the hot dog entry. Jtmichcock

I would tend to agree with Zocky. At the moment, Frankfurter as a sausage in itself is poorly explained (well not at all, in any article, really). Predominately 'hot dog' means the dish and and to a lesser extent 'frankfurter' means the sausage. Although both cross-usages exists they are mostly coloquialisms and just cause confusion. For example I doubt there are many people who first type in 'frankfurter' to look for this article. I would leave frankfurter as the current disambiguation page, set up frankfurter (sausage) (see h2g2 as mentioned above), then add a section here to clear up the naming confusions - starting with the second para in the history section on pre WWI US usage of the name 'frankfurter'. I imagine there will still be a few regions of the US, which still prefer the word 'frankfurter' to mean the dish and that should be clarified in the naming section. -- Solipsist 12:07, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

It doesn't appear that there is enough here for a frankfurter article. I think that the disambiguation is perfectly clear-- it can refer to a hot dog or it can refer to another sausage. If someone gets to the frankfurter disambig page they can figure out which of these they are interested in. As for dealing with the frankfurter in this article, the hot dog article, I think it makes it perfectly clear that it is an alternative name for the same thing. If there is some difference between the "hot dog" and the "frankfurter" then I think there is plenty of place within this article to elaborate on the difference. When there is so much information about the "frankfurter" wouldn't it then be appropriate to split it out to its own independent article? At the moment, I think having two articles without much to say in the frankfurter article would not promote clearer understanding. --SFDan 13:00, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Let me explain my thinking: Frankfurtes are popular sausages in Europe, but (at least in Central Europe and the Balkans) they're usually not eaten in a sandwich, which most people take "hot dog" to mean, but rather on a plate, with mustard and a slice of bread.

I'd suspect that in most of the world where frankfurters are eaten, the sandwiched sort is not its main usage, so the article on the sausage should mostly not concentrate on the sandwich. OTOH, hot dog as a sandwich is obviously an important element in American cuisine and it's popular all over the world, so it clearly deserves its own article.

I think solipsist provides reasonable argumentation for the use of the words "hot dog" and "frankfurter" above. I'm just not sure if there's anything else at Frankfurter that is really called just "frankfurter", so I'd still put the dissambiguation page at the longer title. Zocky 13:10, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

I concur with a split; was thinking of it just looking at the article. We should have Hot dog(sandwich) for the sandwich which in the UK at least normally contains a sausage that is NOT a frankfurter, and Hot dog(sausage) or frankfurter for the sausage itself that the current article claims is the norm in the sandwich in the US. M0ffx 16:48, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Hollywood Hotdog

Regarding different variations of hotdogs, I'd like to address the "Hollywood Hotdog".

In Hollywood, CA, often outside of late night venues you will find street vendors selling hotdogs on rollaway grills. These hotdogs include grilled onion, red and green peppers, bacon wrapped hotdogs, ketchup, mustard, mayo, and the optional jalapeno. I haven't been informed if a hotdog like this is offered anywhere else.

We've all heard of a Chicago hotdog, but I've never heard of anyone mention the Hollywood hotdog so I'd thought I'd give it a shoutout and coin it's name. =)

1. You may wish to check out the Mexico listing describing a "danger dog." This LA dog appears to have migrated from the south. Jtmichcock 00:28, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Origin of "Hot Dog" (name)

There was an edit explaining the origin of the word "Hot Dog". I changed it to the one described (as legend) by the National Hot Dog and Sausage Council here. If anyone has any further info about the origin of the name, have a go. --Nuffle 19:47, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

I did some work on it and some digging, left the myth/urban legend there since it's very popular. It's kind of absurd anyway, that a cartoonist wouldn't have a dictionary or check his spelling and totally make up a word where people might even know what it is.

Also something of note, it has been suggested on several sources that a large driving factor to the name change had to do with anti-german feelings around that time and WW1, which led to the name change from the more popular (german word) frankfurter as prior to that it was kind of seen more as slang or a seldom-used nickname that has roots from the '30s where companies allegedly used dog meat in sausage. It later lost that negative connection though.

Kind of like modern day French fries/Freedom fries in the US, but I've been unable to find a particulary reliable source and might not really be that important to include anyway... and might just be an urban legend/myth in the making ;) Oogles 23:31, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Trade groups are, well, trade groups, not historical sources and don't feel the need to reliably report something as non-earth-shaking as the origin of the term "hot dog." Frankly (you should pardon the pun), considering the association of Germany with sausages, and considering what a dachshund looks like, it's not amazing that anyone should associate "dogs" with "sausages." -- Cecropia 03:16, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Where's the Mustard?

The two pictures of hot dogs are very nice (one with mayonnaise and one with ketchup), but I expected to see a nice line of yellow mustard instead. Isn't that the most common condiment used on a hot dog? 68.45.122.185 07:25, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

It has come up before, and there have even been heated discussions from anti-ketchup editors from Chicago, but so far no one seems to have bothered to photograph or locate an alternative, good image of mustard covered hot dog. -- Solipsist 09:07, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

There's one there now. Jtmichcock 12:26, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

tube steaks - I've never heard them refered to by this name. Where'd you year this?

Also: We sould mention Harry Caray's idea about cloning hot dogs. --DanielCD 03:58, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

That would probably be better for the Chicago-style hot dog article. Jtmichcock 14:27, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

I'd smother myself in brown mustard and relish. I'd be so delicious.

Yea. Gotta miss ol' Caray. --DanielCD 14:30, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

People who absolutely insist that a hot dog can only be served with mustard tend to think that the only way to do things is THEIR way. Ketchup users tend to be more laid back about the matter- maybe the notion that ketchup contains "Natural Mellowing Agents" has some validity LOL. --Saxophobia 02:18, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Trivia

World's longest hotdog at 20m created February 25th 2006 at Curtin University in Perth. [1] Nachoman-au 12:52, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Hot dog variations

Hello. I decided to be bold and spin off the regional variations chart into it's own article. It's at Hot dog variations. A table like that really needs to be in its own article. It was literally bigger than the rest of the article put together. I did add a link to the new page under "See also". --Woohookitty^{(cat scratches)} 11:35, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Very US centric article

The hot dog (not frankfurter) was widely eaten as a street food in England. (Though its popularity may have been eclipsed by the kebab). -- Beardo 06:44, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

How do you distinguish a hot dog from a frankfurter? -- Cecropia 13:49, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Feel free to expand upon that fact. All editors face systemic bias of one sort or another. In the case of this article, most of us are North Americans and can only really write about what we know. Therefore, the article will likely be over-represented by the various styles in the US and Canada and should get more contributions from editors like yourself. youngamerican (talk) 12:59, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Also check out the hot dog variations article in the section listed above. youngamerican (talk) 13:00, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Nothing personal, Beardo, but that's kind of a silly assertion. A hot dog is a hot dog (and there are a wide variety of these) and other sausages are what they are. There is no such thing in most cultures (including a lot of the US) as "the" sausage. Bratwurst, blutwurst, kielbasa, Nathan's franks, Oscar Meyer weiners, Linguisa, salami, Italian sausage, just to name a few, are all different, umm, "animals." If I'm having spaghetti and sausages, I wouldn't want the sausage to a be hot dog. Conversely, I don't want a blutwurst on a bun at a baseball game. -- Cecropia 13:48, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

The comment about sausages was not made by Beardo, but rather by Matt dailey. He made a section in between Beardo's comment and his sig. youngamerican (talk) 03:23, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Hot dog bun in 1860s?

Removed this part from the history of the hot dog:

"and the earliest example of a hot dog bun dates to New York City in the 1860s."

That needs, at the least, some kind of direct citation and justification. We are saying that hot dog buns predate hot dogs in NYC by 20 or so years? Sounds like a soap opera plot: "A lonely bun in quest of a hot dog." If what we mean is that long soft rolls were baked in NYC then, that is not so remarkable. When this kind of sausage was first placed in such a roll is what would be significant. -- Cecropia 15:32, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree, it depends entirely if the person who wrote that meant a hot dog bun or a bun that would have been named a hot dog bun. In the 1880s, it would have been called a dog bun or frank/sausage bun. Still seems doubtful the bun was made then, but could be. Oogles 23:21, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

... ... Barry Popik here. Ignatz Frıschmann was widely credited for the "hot dog bun" in 1904 obituaries for him. These should not go without mention here. The evidence is more solid than many other histories about the hot dog: http://www.barrypopik.com/article/87/hot-dog-roll —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.99.180.131 (talk • contribs) .

(Barry also wrote the following paragraph in the article, again linking his website. --Spondoolicks 11:28, 25 May 2006 (UTC))

Barry Popik here. "Dog" has been used for "sausage" from 1884?? Over ten years ago, I provided numerous historical citations from the 1830s! Gerald Cohen and I wrote a book on the "hot dog" that is given credit just about everywhere (including the National Hot Dog & Sausage Council). I probably should rewrite everything here, but I'll leave that up to a committee of all of you. Anyway: http://www.barrypopik.com/article/86/hot-dog-polo-grounds-myth

Hey there - be sure to sign your messages with four tildes :) You can see the other section on this page (discussion) about the origin of the name, there I mention that 'dog' had been around as slang for sausage since the early 1800s, though then had a more negative connection. Didn't know if details of that should be included or not, since the article is about hot dog and not dog, but I did mention it briefly in the main article where I put Hot dog became an extension of the older use of dog to mean a sausage. As for changes, feel free to make them - especially if you have sources, if someone changes or reverts, can come here and discuss -- or suggest changes here prior, whichever you prefer :) Oogles 13:22, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Hotdog can't win

Either way you took at it the hot dog will never be as good as the sausage.

History of hot dog sausage - possible mistake in article

This article on the National Hot Dog and Sausage Council’s website states that there are people who assert that the hot dog was created in the late 1600's by Johann Georghehner, a butcher, living in Coburg, Germany. This is what is currently quoted in the article.

This article, however, states that “Although there is no exact documentation of where the first emulsion-type sausage was produced, there are some indications that it was done by the Vienna sausage producer, Johann Georg Lahner, in 1805.”

So it looks like either a) one of them has got it wrong (and mis-spelt the name), b) there were two butchers over a century apart with remarkably similar names who both laid claim to the invention, or c) there’s no evidence either way and they are both just versions of a legend.

Personally I reckon the Hot Dog Council have got it wrong, purely on the basis that the name Georghehner sounds like a mistake. Can anyone shed light on this? --Spondoolicks 14:11, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

If you have verifiable information that contradicts what's there, you should feel free to fix it. Make sure you links connect the new data with the cite. Jtmichcock 14:23, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

The trouble is I don't know if the different version is better or worse than the info in there at the moment. I was hoping someone else would know and make changes if needed. --Spondoolicks 14:27, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Plus, it depends a lot on how exactly you are going to define a hot dog. You could take the history of the frankfurter, but the problem with that is that is also a name and doesn't mean there was something before that that would still be considered a hot dog or a frank (But not named that) or if an early frankfurter would be different enough to not even be considered a hot dog. Problematic. Such as size, contents, casing and maybe even cooking and preperation method. Sausage, though, has much older roots but it all comes down to how exactly you are going to define it and then trying to rely on shady details to see which one is better. The other way is listing all the histories for the many 'predecessors' to things that would be considered a hot dog, like the frank and such. Which might be an OK idea, start with the most recent go back to sausage but it seems like there would be a better place for it. Oogles 18:33, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't think we need to go to much into the ancient pre-history of the hot dog. Allowing that a hot dog and a frankfurter are different names for essentially the same thing, we need to look at three things.

1. When was the first "emulsion sausage" created. This is a sausage where the ingredidents are essentially mixed into a moist paste before cooking, as opposed to the traditional sausage which is made of ground, chopped or chunked ingredients?
2. When was the first such sausage, reasonably like today's "hot dog" credated?
3. When was said sausage put between bread for eating as a regular thing (i.e., when did it become finger food) and sold that way for consumption?
4. When was the name "hot dog" applied?

I tend to distrust a claim that goes back to 1200 or something, because, considering the nature of sausage making I would need to see not only evidence for the claim, but why such a sausage was produced and for whose consumption. The big advantage of an emulsion sausage in the modern context is that it is more amenable to mass production, not an issue 800-odd years ago. It's like saying the Chinese invented "spaghetti." The legend that Marco Polo brought back a "recipe" for spaghetti only implies that he brought back a recipe for thin noodles. It doesn't mean the Chinese made hard wheat based noodles that were sauced in a manner that we would identify today as spaghetti. -- Cecropia 20:12, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Ask Yahoo has weighed in on how the hot dog got its name. Jtmichcock 11:37, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Ask Yahoo! just used the same sources we already have for this, indirectly using snopes to use the Yale record which is already recorded in the article. They probably searched for it. Oogles 12:45, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

"Hot dog" is the most commonly heard term in spoken language in most of the U.S.

Source? it says "most of the US" so what part of the US is this not the most commonly heard term and what is the source either way. Seems flaky. Removing this in a few days if no objections or no sources. Oogles 22:50, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Look up common expressions like "franks and beans" v "hot dogs and beans." Just today I was in a NY area supermarket and noted the many (especially pre-Memorial Day) brands of hot dogs/franks in the cases. "Frank" and "frankfurter" are ubiquitous. To say "in spoken language" suggests that the speaker is writing from local experience. Therefore, original unsourced research. -- Cecropia 01:51, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

There goes my main contribution to this article. In all parts of the US I have known, I assure you, if you say "Hey, would you like a Frank?" you're going to get a real funny look. Nobody ever calls them that, everyone calls them "hot dogs", and they only see the word "Franks" on the grocery store package. Someone said it is normal to call them "Franks" in New York City, though. ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 19:14, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, how many parts of the U.S. have you known? ;-) -- Cecropia 20:08, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Many parts of the East and Midwest. Never been on the West Coast, so don't know about there. Canadians also call them hot dogs and not "franks". I wonder where "frank" is actually used except in New York area. Out of curiosity, I'd like to ask an informal poll of English speakers. Where you live, would you go in a store and ask for a "frank"? ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 20:41, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

On Long Island, NY, yes, I would definitely ask for a "frank" whether from a cart or a truck. When Nathan's Coney Island still served from their long counter, there were separate stations for franks, burgers, french fries, drinks. In that case, those who bought regularly knew to just go to the counter (once you fought your way through) and you asked for "one." What the "one" (or two, or three, etc) was was obvious by which part of the counter you were at. Asking for a "hot dog" marked you as a rube. -- Cecropia 00:06, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

In the south east USA I've seen and heard them referred to them either way, I'm not sure where Codex lives, but if someone (in my experience and in my area) asked a vendor for a frank -- or if I asked someone in a grocery store where the franks were -- I wouldn't have a funny look, I'd have an instant point in their direction. I personally call them hot dogs, but many of them are labeled franks. If you want a source for this, I'll provide it. Lowes Foods is a grocery store chain present only in SE USA. http://shop.mywebgrocer.com/shop.aspx?&sid=9047111&sid_guid=0d3005e6-c796-4b51-869d-6ef02a82f1d1&strid=BED3121&ns=1 The option on left menu states hotdogs, the words on the packaging says franks. Ball Park says Franks, Oscar Meyer says Franks and Weiners, Gwaltney says Hot Dog, Valleydale says hot dog, Bryan says Frank - Lowes foods (on menu) says Hot dog. Oogles 03:29, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

why national chains dont carry hot dogs

can anyone shed light on why mcdonalds, burger king, wendy's, etc. do not carry hot dogs? --- 152.3.194.147 22:27, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Check out hot dog variations. Maybe it is because people in neighboring counties cannot even agree on what should be put on a dog and keeping up with local preferences would not be worth the bother. Where would the dividing line be for McDonalds between where to keep hot dog chilli and where to keep kraut and cheese? And what kind of cheese? etc. I am sure there are other reasons, but this could be a big one. youngamerican (ahoy-hoy) 22:34, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

A&W and Dairy Queen sell hot dogs. --SigPig 05:26, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Hot dogs are also considered a 'cheap' food item. Such as ordering a bologna sandwhich at McDonalds. Whereas hamburgers and the such are generally viewed as more expensive. (and are, by a lot in grocery stores, though probably not in manufacturing costs for a fast food chain, but the view is very important) Oogles 04:47, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Ray Kroc wrote at length in his 1977 autobiography that McDonald's would never serve hot dogs because they were unhygienic, and that the customer could not easily identify what was in them. Sure enough, McDonald's has never served them, a couple of field tests excepted. I wish I had the book, it would make an interesting quotation for the article.  ProhibitOnions  ^(T) 23:13, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Most U.S. movie theater chains serve hotdogs. Lordglenn 23:34, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Only hot dogs legal in T.O.?

If someone can actually come up with a link to the bylaw that states that only hot dogs may be sold as street food, I'm going to delete that statement. Mainly because: 1. Hot dog vendors also sell Italian sausage, Polish sausage, and often vegetarian sausage on a bun. This may be nit-picking, but the article seems to me to make a distinction between the hot dog and any other type of sausage. 2. you can also buy ice cream and ice cream products from ice cream trucks all over the city in the summer. I'm not just talking the pre-made Good Humor ice-cream-on-a-stick, but trucks that sell cones, sundaes, and shakes. 3. in the winter, you can get roasted chestnuts. Bought some in front of Holy Name church on Danforth last Christmas; nummy! 4. Down on Gerrard Ave on Sundays, almost every shop seems to be roasting corn on a barbeque (then rubbing them down with a lemon or lime then rolling them in some spice mix). And they're not all restaurants that do it. So, either they're all doing it illegally, or there is no such law here. I'd like to see a cite (other than just the link to the strict hot dog regulations). --SigPig 05:52, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

International Variation

We need to add some international variation here. I know that in Austria a hot dog is any type of sausage stuffed into a hollowed-out baguette bread. In Denmark they have something called a "french hot dog" which is the same as above but it uses soft bread. In fact I'm going to enjoy an Austrian hot dog right now, as I'm in Vienna. I'll take a photo of it. -newkai | talk | contribs 11:15, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Octodog?

Should something be added in about the Octodog? It was mentioned on the third episode of Ham on the Street. --Dr Archeville 14:41, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Probably not. It looks pretty marginal. -- Solipsist 19:12, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

In French?

What are hot dogs called in french?

From the French Wikipedia, it appears to be "hot dog" there too, youngamerican (ahoy-hoy) 16:03, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

When I was in Paris, hipsters called them "chienne chaude".

Simon Deering

Right. I think Simon Deering should be on this page because his nickname, Hotdogs, is a proper noun, while the disambiguation page is for hot dog, a common noun. Simon Deering's nickname Hotdogs isn't another use of hot dog because that isn't his name, and names aren't often written out in a way different to how the person whose name it is spells it. jd || talk || 13:05, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I still do not think that he is notable enough on a global scale to be listed up top in that manner. I would prefer that he stayed on the dab, but I would be totally cool with mentioning him in the trivia section of this article. youngamerican (ahoy-hoy) 16:02, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

My wanting him on this page has nothing to do with notability or my thinking that he deserves some sort of mention. I just think that as Hotdogs is a proper noun, and is not the same as hotdog or hot dog, it should be at the top of this page. jd || talk || 16:07, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

But this article is "hot dog," not "hot dogs" and I'm not sure if the proper noun thing matters. I have added him to the trivia section, for what its worth. youngamerican (ahoy-hoy) 16:09, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

That's exactly my point - this article is for hot dog, and the disambiguation page is for hotdog. The guy's name is Hotdogs, which isn't the same as either of them. The whole point of it all is resolving ambiguity, and putting Hotdogs on a disambiguation page that doesn't use his name as the title won't help the people that don't know his name and wouldn't think of looking there. If Hotdogs were plural, I wouldn't see the problem, but it is singular, and a proper noun that shouldn't be modified for the sake of a disambiguation page. jd || talk || 16:18, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't hotdogs already redirect to the page in question? youngamerican (ahoy-hoy) 16:21, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, and it also links to a disambiguation page instead of redirecting to it instead. jd || talk || 16:26, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

That Simon Deering chose the nickname "Hotdogs" for himself has nothing at all to do with the food. From the perspective of a reader interested in the food, Simon Deering is irrelevant. IMO, he doesn't even warrant mention in the trivia section. It is difficult to understand why his article, of all those on the disambiguation page, should be promoted to a direct link on this page. It makes no difference that he is called "Hotdogs" rather than "hotdog". Hamburger (disambiguation) has about a dozen people whose given names are Hamburger and several articles that are slight variations on the word. Further, he's definitely not globally noteworthy. His article reeks of recentism and will probably be deleted soon after his show business career dies. -Anþony 18:17, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

The whole point of putting a link at the top of the article is that a reader is directed to an unrelated article. It doesn't matter about global noteworthiness, he's on Wikipedia and that's that. The hamburger disambiguation page doesn't list any variations of Hamburger; each time it is there, it is spelt as hamburger. If the guy's name were Hotdog or Hot dog, I wouldn't have a problem, but as I've said before, the disambiguation page is for hotdog, and Hotdogs is not plural. jd || talk || 19:16, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Specifically, the city of Hamburg is listed on the disambiguation page though it does not share the exact name. Dog (disambiguation) links to articles relating to a man called Dawg, a TV episode called Dogged, and even several things using the plural Dogs if the parallel wasn't clear enough. Hotdogs already redirects to Simon Deering, though even that will probably cause more confusion than it will solve. He has been given an appropriate mention in the disambiguation page so that people who are confused may find him. I see no compelling reason to give him a position any more prominent than that. -Anþony 04:07, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't look as though this is going to go anywhere, so although it makes me sick to my stomach, I'm hoping what I've done to the page now is a fair compromise. jd || talk || 10:36, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay, and we've just somehow gone right back to the {{otheruses}} template... Reason? jd || talk || 21:01, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

You posted before I could commit my explanation to the talk page. Here it is:

The templates exist to enforce a standard style on Wikipedia for dab links, so we'll use them. (See WP:DAB and MoS:DAB.) The situation with Mr. Deering is not unique, as I have shown, and is adequately handled by the current template. It is not necessary to inform the reader that the dab page includes terms that are not exactly spelt as hot dog since this is common practice on Wikipedia. The dab page is used here exactly as it is intended to be used, for any "articles associated with the same title."

PS, after edit conflict: If you expect me to agree to a compromise, I expect you to compose an argument in line with current Wikipedia policies and common practices or at a minimum find some flaw in mine. -Anþony 21:24, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Fair warning, I plan to revert back to {{otheruses}}. I provided my reasoning to put it back; you've yet to provide your reasoning for making the change in the first place. Please assume good faith and let's not have a revert war. -Anþony 21:33, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Revert war? Who said anything about a revert war? And why are you throwing AGF about? Doing that often has an adverse effect, and it definitely wasn't needed in this case. I don't know what you're trying to get me to read, as I don't see anything in either of those pages that says that names spelt differently to the title of a disambiguation page should be included in one page. I also didn't see anything that says that the {{otheruses}} tag must be used on a page. I saw the word can used, but not must. jd || talk || 09:15, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I interpreted from your tone and actions that you're becoming exasperated. I wished only to clarify that my sole intent is to preserve the style and standards of Wikipedia, which why I linked to AGF. I apologize if I did not convey that impression adequately. More to the point, I would direct you to the following lines in MoS:DAB:

Misspellings on disambiguation pages can be listed in a separate section entitled "Common misspellings" or "see also"

...
There may be a "See also" section which can include:

• Terms which can be confused with Title, for example New Market and Newmarket
• Likely misspellings of Title, for example Belmont, Belmonte and Bellmont

Either or both of these criteria can be construed to apply here: hot dog is a conceivable mispelling or confusion of Hotdogs, and thus a link to Simon Deering is wholly appropriate in Hot dog (disambiguation). I also remind you of the parallel situations I brought up before (Hamburger (disambiguation) and Dog (disambiguation)) which evidence the current solution as common practice on Wikipedia. If you wish to further argue that Hotdogs fits neither criterion, or that the use of the word "may" nullifies the recommendation, then I would argue that there is no place for Mr. Deering at all, as there is nothing that says he "may" be included anywhere else.
As for the use of the template, I direct you to the discussion of templates in WP:DAB: "a number of templates have been created to ensure the uniform appearance of disambiguation links" (emphasis mine). You are correct to note that they are not strictly mandatory; WP:DAB is, like all of the policy pages, only a guideline. However, it is an established consensus recommendation which I see no reason to contradict. If you believe the guidelines to be inadequate or if you wish a new dab template to fit your purposes, I would suggest bringing up the matter in Wikipedia Talk:Disambiguation. -Anþony 20:03, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

A new template isn't needed. It isn't stated anywhere that a template must be used, and I'm sure making something up instead of using one of the templates that are already there if it is better suited is allowed. You aren't the only person that is trying to "preserve the style and standards of Wikipedia", but you don't have to stick to the policies and guidelines all the time. Hotdogs isn't a misspelling of hotdog, and it's pretty unlikely that a person would "accidentally" search for hotdog or hot dog instead of it. jd || talk || 20:27, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Like I said before, this line of reasoning works at cross purposes to your intent. If hot dog is not a potential mispelling of Hotdogs, if it's pretty unlikely that someone would accidentally come upon this page looking for Simon Deering, then there's no disambiguation to be done: no entry on the dab page, no changes to the template, no toplink, no need to mention him at all. As to your other remarks, if you truly believe that WP:DAB has a blind spot and you wish to invoke WP:IAR, then I emphatically suggest that you discuss the matter in Wikipedia Talk:Disambiguation, so that we may come to a consensus that can be consistently applied to all articles in this situation (ex1, ex2). -Anþony 21:18, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

There's every chance that somebody might come on this page looking for him instead. You don't want a note at the top of the page for people that might come here looking for Simon Deering, you don't want a modified note for the disambiguation page - do you even care about the people that might be looking for him but don't think to look at the disambiguation page because it says hotdog instead of hotdogs or Hotdogs? Modifying the note doesn't harm anybody, and there is no need to gain community consensus for a special template when this is but a single occurrence of the problem. I was trying to settle this with a compromise that we could both be satisfied with, but you went and reverted it right back and stated policy when it was not needed. At the end of the day, we all need to work together at this, but if you're not willing to accept what I think is a minor change that doesn't need all the attention it is receiving, it doesn't benefit anything, least of all the article. jd || talk || 23:09, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Only one way to settle this: a hot dog eating contest. Ready, set, GO! youngamerican (ahoy-hoy) 23:44, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

(note: edit conflict w/Youngamerican)

Once again, I feel that you have mistaken my intentions; I am only doing what I believe is best for Wikipedia. I remind you also that this is not a unique scenario, as I have shown. I believe consistency is important. Allowing a special exception from the standards without good reason is simply unacceptable. However, I am more than willing to accept a compromise in line with the accepted standards and common practices. If you believe I am being unreasonable, you are welcome to discuss the matter with a wider and more experienced audience, whether or not the discussion leads to changes in the standards. I believe I have explained my position in more than adequate terms with plenty of support from several sources, so I will not bother to explain myself further. -Anþony 00:26, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

You haven't shown me anything where a similar thing to this occurs. The hamburger disambiguation page, as I have pointed out before, doesn't list anything that is similar to hamburger. The Dog disambiguation page had one thing that should have been on a different page, and another thing that uses the word dog in past tense. As I have said before, I'm sure a compromise is more than acceptable in this case, and you haven't shown me anything that says that disambiguation templates have to be used. jd || talk || 15:56, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I have created an entry in WP:RFC/STYLE. Hopefully we can have some more voices and come to an agreement. Hamburger (disambiguation) contains a separate entry for Hamburg under See Also. Dog (disambiguation) contains entries for three songs named Dogs, a manga called Dogs / Bullets & Carnage, and a man whose nickname is Dawg. The parallels are very clear to me. I'm not sure how to explain it any better than that. I'm not suggesting that the template must be used, only that it should be used in order to "ensure the uniform appearance of disambiguation links". It is conceivable that some truly unique and irregular situation might require an unique and non-standard dab link, but that is not the case here. -Anþony 01:28, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

This page has obviously been the target of vandalism Can someone fix this?

71.227.254.181 23:35, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Lots of people keep a close eye on it and revert it whenever it is vandalized. youngamerican (ahoy hoy) 00:43, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

"The only proper condiment for a hot dog is ketchup." appears in the text of the article, but I don't see it in the editable text in order to remove it. Please address this.

Remember to sign your posts with four ~'s. (See it's been addressed though). But yes, lots of people watch this post. Oogles 04:22, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

New hot dog related userboxes

Here are some hot dog related userboxes which I made.

• {{User:EReference/Userbox_Hot_Dog}}
  This user has been known to eat a hot dog on occasion.
• {{User:EReference/Userbox_Hot_Dogs}}
  This user loves Hot Dogs in all their varieties.
• {{User:EReference/Userbox_Hot_Dog_Self}}
  This user eats sufficient quantities of Hot Dogs to positively qualify as an Honorary Hot Dog in their own right.
• {{User:EReference/Userbox_Hot_Dog_Chicago}}
  This user prefers a true Chicago-style hot dog. With NO ketchup.
• {{User:EReference/Userbox_Hot_Dog_Chicago2}}
  This user knows that Chicago-style hot dogs are the only true 'Dawg.
• {{User:EReference/Userbox_Hot_Dog_Coney}}
  This user prefers Coney Island hot dogs. Preferably with enough chili and onions to require the use of a fork or spoon.
• {{User:EReference/Userbox_Hot_Dog_Coney3}}
  This user prefers Coney Island hot dogs. Preferably with enough chili and onions to require a side-order of Pepto Bismol.
• {{User:EReference/Userbox_Hot_Dog_Coney2}}
  This user knows that Coney Island hot dogs are the only true 'Dawg.

EReference 19:56, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm not one to make templates or anything but shouldn't the words Hot Dog in these link to the Hot dog page? Maybe there's a technical problem or a statue that says bad idea... I'm just asking since I'm wondering and don't seem to know better. --JohnCub 00:35, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Why is this so long?

Why is this so damn long? I don't think there needs to be this much hotdog info. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.85.240.117 (talk) 04:15, 11 January 2007 (UTC).

Are you sitting comfortably? Many an afternoon has been enjoyed by a family, bonding over the discussion of hot dogs. While much has been written on its influence on contemporary living, its influence on western cinema has not been given proper recognition. Crossing many cultural barriers they still draws remarks such as 'I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole' and 'i'd rather eat wasps' from the easily lead, who are yet to grow accustomed to its disombobulating nature. Relax, sit back and gasp as I display the rich tapestries of hot dogs.

Social Factors

Society begins and ends with hot dogs. When J H Darcy said 'fevour will spread' she created a monster which society has been attempting to tame ever since. Spanning divides such as class, race and uglyness, hot dogs help to provide some sort of equilibrium in this world of ever changing, always yearning chaos.

Nothing represents every day life better than hot dogs, and I mean nothing. Society is powered by peer pressure, one of the most powerful forces in the world. As long as peer pressure uses its power for good, hot dogs will have their place in society.

Economic Factors

We no longer live in a world which barters 'I'll give you three cows for that hat, it's lovely.' Our existance is a generation which cries 'Hat - $20.' We shall examine the Simple-Many-Pies model. For those of you unfamiliar with this model it is derived from the Three-Amigos model but with greater emphasis on the outlying gross national product.

When examined this way it becomes very clear that hot dogs are of great importance. Of course sausage prices cannot sustain this instability for long.

Political Factors

Much of the writings of historians display the conquests of the most powerful nations over less powerful ones. Looking at the spectrum represented by a single political party can be reminiscent of comparing the two parts of hot dogs.

Let us consider the words of that silver tongued orator, style icon Augstin T. Time 'consciousness complicates a myriad of progressions.' I argue that his insight into hot dogs provided the inspiration for these great words. It is a well known 'secret' that what prompted many politicians to first strive for power was hot dogs.

While hot dogs may be a giant amongst men, is it a dwarf amongst policy? I hope not.

Conclusion

To conclude hot dogs are both a need and a want. They collaborate successfully, 'literally' plant seeds for harvest, and never hide.

As a parting shot here are the words of super-star Sigourney Lopez: 'I demand hot dogs, nothing more nothing less.' Lolocaust 22:48, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Louisiana Purchase

The American story of the introduction of the hot dog, like the hamburger and ice cream cone, is often attributed to the 1904 Louisiana Purchase Exposition in St. Louis, Missouri. [1]

Above from the article.

This should be elsewhere in the article not the first sentance, it's not about the creation or even introduction of the hot dog, but about those things getting more exposure and made more popular, such as people having never seen them before (though they certainly existed prior). 1904 is at minimum 50 years too late (and really around 100). It wasn't created there, but it was seen by many there for the first time, or discovered through media from the worlds fair. Oogles 01:00, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Availability (in the US)

Does this section really have value?....

Oogles 01:02, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Hints there of, but not so much. It could all be covered in a sentence. I tend to think that the article could use some dramatic work from head to toe. youngamerican (ahoy hoy) 01:46, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Hot dogs around the globe

Is it just me, or does this entire section called "Hot dogs around the globe" violate the Wikipedia:No original research policy? (jarbarf) 20:15, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

If there are no objections then, I will begin removing some of the unverifiable original research tomorrow. (jarbarf) 15:30, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

...named after the city of Vienna, Austria...

Per the article (emphasis mine for clarity):

Hot dogs are also called frankfurters, or franks for short (named after the city of Frankfurt, Germany, the original frankfurters are made of pork only), or wieners or weenies (named after the city of Vienna, Austria, whose Kentucky's name is "Wien", the original wieners are made of a mixture of pork and beef).

I don't see how Kentucky and Vienna Austria tie together, can somebody elaborate?

JohnCub 00:27, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

The entire article is unstable and unreliable right now. That sentence fragment looks like leftover vandalism, you'll probably need to dig back several pages worth of revisions, most of which are vandalism, to find the original meaning. (jarbarf) 00:32, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Here it is, since February 4, 2007. If we can't keep up with the infiltration of nonsense into this article, it should be semi-protected. I'd like to see this page attain Featured Article status but this kind of firefighting is tiresome. (jarbarf) 00:39, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Other names for hot dogs

regarding Hot dogs are also called dachshunds... Is this correct? I've heard Dachshunds called hot dogs but not the other way around. JohnCub 23:09, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Doubtful. If you see dubious unsourced material like this creeping in, please be bold and remove it. (jarbarf) 23:43, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Typically I am bold but with hot dogs, I know there are a million ways to eat and probably that many names for them. I'm not an expert on them, just an interested eating party.  :) JohnCub 00:45, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Dachshund, or, as we say in Germany, Dackel, has always been compared to our WURST, which is predominantly served hot and on a "Brötchen" (bun), therefore it is very possible, that the German butcher, Charles Feltman, called his first product, that was eaten at first from German immigrants in New York, "ein heißer Hund" = a hot dog! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.140.97.202 (talk) 23:06, 30 April 2007 (UTC).

Dachshund (pronounced "Daxhund") is also a valid word, if less common, in Germany. A Dachs is a badger in German. TinyMark 12:17, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Why?

Why is this motherfucking article protected indefinitely? This is BULLSHIT.

Last I checked this article hasn't had intercourse with its authors so I can't speak to the question as posed directly. If you are referring to the article Hot dog, it is semiprotected to deal with the large amount of profane vandalism and comments that are added to it. If you register an account, which does not require an email address, name, or any other information, then you may edit the article. You must understand that we need to protect certain articles from needless profanity. Clearly this article attracts people who can't refrain from needless profanity or communicate in a mature manner.—WAvegetarian (talk) 18:13, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

who would want to vandalize an article about hotdogs?

External Links

Why are external links deleted? Are there rules pertaining to the posting of links? Just curious? Mine was deleted by someone for unknown reason. My link is for informational purposes only, non-profit anyone can look at it etc. Hot Dog King 12:03, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

There is a policy on external links. You can read it here: WP:LINKS. I didn't see which link of yours was removed, but if you read through the policy on links, and still feel yours should be included, post a note here on the talk page. - Authalic 17:01, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

This article is in partial contradiction with another source

If you have a look to the article from [2], you will find significative differences. The origin of the word is more clear in answers.com and it is indicated that the part concerning cartoon by T. A. Dorgan is false. Do not know who's right, though. 128.101.152.108 19:33, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

It is false. That part of the article here explains it as "hot dog lore" (not fact), included because it's an extremely popular myth. Also, the sources for answers.com are already covered in the article too, where they drew from Yale record.. well actually they drew from Snopes, which then drew from the Yale record..., etc. Oogles 03:55, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

A Sandwich?

Is a hot dog really considered a sandwich? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Inthepostscript (talk • contribs) 18:54, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

No a hot dog is absolutely not a sandwich. A hot dog sandwich would be a hot dog between two pieces of bread. This should be fixed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.37.181.126 (talk • contribs) 12:22, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

This is a dialect issue - this article is written in American. Americans use the word "sandwich" to refer to anything placed between pieces of bread of any shape including rolls and buns; whereas English speakers restrict their use of the word to flat slices of bread.

What's more, I wouldn't consider the sausage itself to be a hot-dog. For me the term hot dog refers to the sausage-bun ensemble. The sausage by itself is either a frankfurt(er) or a saveloy. Perhaps we need to add a section on usage. Nick 19:13, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Worldwide view

Whoever slapped that {{Globalize}} tag on the article has a point. Sausages are a very Old World food, and sausages and bread have been eaten together for a long time (though there must be limits—weisswurst mit brezen belongs in weisswurst, not hot dog).

There are a couple of places we could start.

The most obvious is the the Frankfurt v. Vienna v. Coburg issue.

Also, the Danish hot dog is popular in enough places around that world that it probably deserves a mention here instead of just in hot dog variations.JFD 13:00, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Since the hot dog is a USA institution, the "Globalize/USA" tag makes no sense and I have removed it. There are mentions of similar sausages in the text from other countries, which seems enough. The similar sausages in other countries have different names and perhaps should be moved to the general sausages article as they are not identical to hot dogs.--Zeamays 17:02, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

AzaToth has slapped on a (Template:Globalize/USA tag, with no justification or specifics of what he wants. This page has plenty of references to non-USA dogs. I am deleting the tag. If he wants to replace it, he should say why. --Zeamays 14:41, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I added it because of the section "Availability in the USA", that I think should either be removed, or changed into something more generic. _→AzaToth 14:57, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

History

Origin

The National Hot Dog & Sausage Council page that was linked to is almost identical to Schmidt (2003) so I switched the attribution over to that. I have issues with the Schmidt. It's not academic like most of the other sources I've cited, most of which are published by university presses. Also, I read somewhere than the Viennese call a hot dog a frankfurter, which kind of moots their etymological claim to the hot dog.

Feltman

I have two academic sources for this that I'm happy about.

Feuchtwanger

Both of the sources are academic, but I'm not entirely happy with them. McCullough [1957] (2000) is unabashedly POV and Jakle & Sculle (1999) don't mention Feltman and perpetuate the TAD myth.

Ahe

For this I used a copy of the article that I found on the author's website. Since it doesn't come from The Kansas City Star website, someone might want to double check. The article was far from 100% certain about Ahe, hot dogs and baseball and I tried to convey that in the text.

Nathan's

I'm content with the academic reliability of Immerso. My reservations about Jakle & Sculle remain.

Etymology

This section is more reliant on a blogpost than I would like, but I'm willing to budge here because the substantive difference between Popik and Wilton—which are both from 2004—is the 1893 usage from The Knoxville Journal that Popik found. Popik goes into much greater detail about the history of usage.

JFD 11:15, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Kosher hotdogs may not have a natural casing?

This is patently untrue. The Kosher hotdogs of my youth certainly had natural, most likely lamb, casings.

Kosher natural casings exist, there's no law against them, but they're hard to find. Consumers have come to accept plastic, so there's not enough demand to justify steady production of natural ones. -- Zsero (talk) 15:34, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

New world Record

Joey Chestnut set a new world record today July 4, 2007. He ate 66 hotdogs in twelve minutes. 69.65.69.107 17:43, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

F is for?

Should the F's in Frankfurter / Franks all be capitalized?

It's only been 45 years since my 8th Grade English... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrtobacco (talk • contribs) 21:51, 2007 July 11 (UTC)

No, the Fs should not be capitalised. Also, please remember to sign your talk page comments.--Scheinwerfermann 04:29, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Anyone else think this bit in condiments should be dropped?

'Some Americans believe that a properly made hot dog should never be topped with ketchup.[citation needed] Often these people believe the flavor of ketchup overpowers and destroys the taste of the hot dog instead of complementing it.[12] In Chicago, some restaurants and hot dog stands that consider themselves to be "true" Chicago hot dog grills do not, as a rule, carry ketchup in stock, even if they serve other food items that use this condiment, such as French fries. The National Hot Dog & Sausage Council, in its tongue-in-cheek recommendations for proper Hot Dog Etiquette capitulate only slightly to the public's general regard for ketchup, saying, "Don't use ketchup on your hot dog after the age of 18." (This alludes to the fact that many children like ketchup on their hot dogs due to the sweet taste, but adults are expected to have a more sophisticated palate and is a way of discrediting the use of ketchup through the use of an ageist remark).'

It's not very well written, uses weasel words, and doesn't seem to be describing a significant opinion or trend, and is also more describing a regional thing than something about hotdog condiments in general. Also the last part added about ageism is more than a bit irrelevant.Number36 04:18, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Inaccuracies

Eddie Cantor and Jimmy Durante were NOT "clients" of Nathan Handwerker...they were singing waiters at Feltman's while Handwerker was an employee. Handwerker used his wife's family recipe for their initial hot dog stand, and went into business for himself in part because he was encouraged by Cantor and Durante. There should also be reference to Feltman's restaurant -- Charles Feltman started his hot dog stand, where he served "Coney Island Red Hots," derisively called "hot dogs," when there was almost nothing at Coney Island except a beach, the Centennial or Iron Tower, and the original switchback railway (an extremely primitive form of roller coaster): as Coney Island became the vast amusement complex of Steeplechase, Dreamland and Luna Park, Feltman's became the key restaurant and beer garden in roughly the center of the whole area. If Feltman didn't invent the hot dog, he certainly was the most influential figure in popularizing it until Handwerker came along. There should also be some refrence to street hot dog vendors -- the section on availability makes reference to various restaurants, but throughout many areas (at least throughout the New York Metropolitan area) the most commanly available food from independent street vendors, pushcarts and roadside lunch trucks are hotd ogs, notably Sabrett brand and House O' Weenies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.168.64.130 (talk) 09:16, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

True hot dogs?

In the United Kingdom "hot dogs" are available made with regional British sausages.[citation needed] Howevever, such sandwiches made with British sausages different from frankfurters are arguably not true hot dogs. In addition, a hot dog sausage is always pre-cooked at the factory before packaging, which is generally not true of such regional British sausages.

But what is a true hot dog? Kosher hot-dogs are mentioned, but surely they are not "true" hot dog? At what point does a hot dog become true? Whitstable (talk) 16:22, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Hot dog is a term coined in the USA that refers to a pre-cooked sausage with certain flavor characteristics. Kosher hot dogs are true hot dogs, they taste like hot dogs, they look like hot dogs, and no one differs on this. This is not an article about generic sausages in buns. For that, start a new page. --Zeamays 14:37, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I've never seen a hot dog in the UK made with anything except frankfurters. I wish the person responsible for the statement above would cite a source for this as I am seriously considering removing it! TINYMark (Talk) 18:48, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Reverted - Category: St. Louis Cuisine

My addition of Category:St. Louis cuisine was rv-ed by Pharmboy on January 25, 2008.

My edit reasoning: The Hot Dog on a bun is often credited as having been invented and/or first sold at the 1904 St. Louis World's Fair, though the true geographic origin of that now common pairing is admittedly likely never to be proven 100%. I felt that, accordingly, it could be listed as a part of the St. Louis Cuisine category. This is not intended to be limiting, of course. Chicago, New York and other cities can claim this as a part of their cuisine as well, due to their unique take on the foodstuff. Ultimately, something as ubiquitous in American (and global) culture as a hot dog may not belong segregated to one city's (or a handful of cities') cuisine categories. Then again, certain cities, such as St. Louis, have played a significant role in Hot Dog history.

I prefer (and Support) inclusion, but defer to the democratic nature of the talk page. Roscoestl (talk) 20:39, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I believe that the claim should be given supporting references, a link to the hot dog bun should be made in the hot dog article, and the information about the bun's origin should placed on the bun's page (upon gaining an appropriate reference).

The "St. Louis Cuisine" category implies that the hot dog + bun is well-recognized as a St. Loius cultural food or tradition, and may therefore be misleading to readers.

I'm going to vote to Disapprove the category's addition and suggest the alternative action.

--TarrVetus (talk) 16:44, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I would disagree with adding hot dog to any city or state cuisine cats, but I wouldn't have a prob with an article on St. Louis hot dogs (or something like that) if it could be well-sourced and meet all inclusion guidelines. y'amer'can (wtf?) 16:49, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• No Cat, add article As the reverter, my reasoning was that any city could add hot dog as part of their cuisine, ending up with many similar categories that wouldn't add context to the article, and instead create confusion. Also, adding it as a cat would be biased as a claim of who invented it. This seems to be the concensus here as well. Creating an article similar to St. Louis hot dogs and having a blurb wikilinked within this article that it is arguable (but not proven) that the dog on a bun originated there is perfectly acceptable to me, assuming the article meets all other policies. It would also allow more cultural input than this article could, so the net result would be more information anyway. Pharmboy (talk) 18:10, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• Well-argued by all. I will get to work on a separate page per your suggestions. I will aim to make it thorough enough so it is not later tagged with a "Merge into Hot Dog"... ;) Roscoestl (talk) 02:23, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I think that if it is, you can point to this discussion. The purpose isn't to fork the content, the purpose is to create new content that is related to, but not exclusive to Hot dog. This would probably best be first created in user space then moved to the main article, that way you have enough time to fully cite and clean it up a bit, removing any obvious red flags. Let us know what the article you create is, and I would be happy to watch it for that kind of dispute. Pharmboy (talk) 14:26, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

weak article

does this article even say what animal parts make a hot dog?