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==Multi-Cultist==
==Multi-Cultist==


For over a decade multicultist doctrine has came under increasing criticism from may partos of Australian society.
For over a decade multicultist doctrine has came under increasing criticism from may parts of Australian society.


for example:
for example:

Revision as of 13:00, 12 May 2009

Featured articleAustralia is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on August 16, 2005.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
May 28, 2005Peer reviewReviewed
June 22, 2005Featured article candidatePromoted
Current status: Featured article

Featured articleAustralia is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on August 16, 2005.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
May 28, 2005Peer reviewReviewed
June 22, 2005Featured article candidatePromoted
Current status: Featured article

Template loop detected: Talk:Australia/Links

Australia a Continent???

This aritcle states that Australia is a continent. Forgive me for saying this, but there are only 7 continents in the world which consist of Asia, Africa, Europe, North America, South America, Antarctica, and Oceania. Therefore, Australia is not a continent and stating such in this article is false. Australia is nation within Oceania. --Yoganate79 (talk) 02:40, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please see the first sentence of the Continent article and its supporting citation. Nick-D (talk) 02:44, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
As well as the numerous discussions about this very issue in the Talk page archives. Oceania is not a continent. It is a region. --AussieLegend (talk) 06:47, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Australia is the continent in the list you give, not Oceania, most of which is small island nations. --Dmol (talk) 08:01, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Having been involved in s similar discussion on this page, I'd like to suggest to Yoganate that he leaves it alone. "Continent" is a poorly defined term, which you can pretty much let mean what you want. So just let those editors continent themselves with their inaccuracy. Australians have been taught in school that "Australia is the largest island and the smallest continent", and pretty much everyone who edits this page believes that to be an important part of the red white and blue running through their veins. Leave alone that a goodly amount of what gets taught in school is bullshit: "Australia is the only place where marsupials are found" or "Australia was one of the first countries to have universal suffrage" occur immediately as examples. It appears to bother these editors not one whit that this argument leaves Tasmania, New Guinea, and most of Indonesia unattached to any continent. Moreover it appears to bother noone that this entire set of statements predates continental plate theory, Or that this statement was made as the protectorate of New Guinea was a part of Australia. One might as well write the whole article from the point of view of 1960s historians, with the noble attempts at integration of the poor abo kids into generous white families. However seeing as the statement about continents is absolutely unbased in any reality, and its just a throwaway line, its probably not worth it to argue over such a triviality. Except that its location in the first paragraph it gives the reader the impression that the scholarship for the whole article will be as slipshod. AKAF (talk) 15:10, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I remember you. You were the editor who claimed that the Australian Government's Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade website was an advertsing website and not a reliable source.[1] Welcome back and please remember, should you choose to present any arguments, rather than just attack the editors of this article and Australians in general, some civility will result in your comments gaining a better response than the incivility that you've just demonstrated. --AussieLegend (talk) 16:06, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Here's the truth about the government: they have departments whose purpose is to promote some aspect of Australia to the country and overseas (ie "Advertising", for some value of that word). And yes, the department of foreign affairs and trade is not a reliable reference for the same reason that an autobiography is not the authoritative guide to a person's life. In fact most government departments are not good references for an article about that department's government, and should be regarded as a primary source for the purposes of citing. So you'll excuse me if I find referencing such a site to be at best disingenuous. AKAF (talk) 08:18, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Continent discussions - for future reference

Past "Is Australia a continent?" and "Australia is not a continent" discussions, and related topics, may be found at:

I could have sworn it's been discussed more than that. --AussieLegend (talk) 09:15, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It really is quite sad that Australians are brainwashed and uneducated to think that their country is one of the classical continents found on earth. My question is, if Australia is considered a continent, then what continent does New Zealand belong to then? In any case, Greenland should also be classified as a continent then too. Let's classify Long Island, Cuba, Japan, and the British Isles their own continents too. --Yoganate79 (talk) 01:52, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Excuse me? Brainwashed and uneducated? How insulting! Bidgee (talk) 01:57, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly australia has better education systems than america. At least we can go to school without getting shot.
Australia a continent yes but australia is the figurehead of australasia a.k.a. oceania new zealand, papua new guinea and that fall under that continent.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.171.106.175 (talk • contribs)
Australasia is not "a.k.a." Oceania, it's a region of Oceania. Neither are continents. --AussieLegend (talk) 09:16, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Countries do not have to belong to a continent. Sorting out which continent the Maldives is located would be tricky. Furthermore, Australia is not a third world country with a tyrannical government. It terms of public brainwashing and lack of education, I'd encourage you to visit someday, and see if your comment is justified. ∗ \ / (⁂) 11:46, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

remains a Commonwealth realm

Do Editors think it is appropriate to say in the opening para that Australia "remains a Commonwealth realm"? Shouldn't the article say Australia is a "constitutional monarchy" - as that term is used in the UK article and Canada's. This is being discussed on Talk:United Kingdom. Regards. Redking7 (talk) 11:48, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I support using the "Constitutional monarchy" description in the opening para:

  1. Redking7 (talk) 11:48, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Hawkeye7 (talk) 03:25, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Slac speak up! 04:52, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  4. --Michael Johnson (talk) 07:30, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Night w (talk) 06:13, 22 April 2009 (UTC) (P.S. I also don't think it's a big deal).[reply]
  6. [Insert your username here]

I support using the Commonwealth realm" description in the opening para

  1. [Insert your username here]

Comments/Questions I need more detail in why should it be changed, whats more widely used (Commonwealth realm or Constitutional monarchy) in Australia (not just within the Commonwealth). Bidgee (talk) 11:52, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'd also like to know why it should be changed. I should point out that Wikipedia works on consensus, not voting, so the polls here and at Talk:United Kingdom are premature. It's not appropriate to make a post on one article's talk page and declare consensus at another, which is what prompted Bidgee's reversion.[2] You need to actually discuss the issue before consensus can be reached and this particular matter needs to be discussed here. --AussieLegend (talk) 12:26, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Have a look at Talk:United Kingdom - its being discussed there too (more editors are involved on that page). Regards. Redking7 (talk) 21:59, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion at Talk:United Kingdom is about use at United Kingdom, not here. As I indicated on your talk page,[3] any consensus achieved at Talk:United Kingdom does not immediately become applicable here. You need to discuss the issue here, not there and explain why the change should occur here. --AussieLegend (talk) 01:19, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I support the reference. However, the purpose of it is to get across that when the colonies federated in 1901, the new country did not "go it alone" as a republic, but continued to be part of the Commonwealth (or Empire as it was then) and continued to acknowledge the British monarch as its monarch. It's also a constitutional monarchy of course, but maybe the purpose of this reference to Commonwealth realms could be spelled out a little more explicitly. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:52, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Constitutional monarchy is a widely understood term. Commonwealth realm is a term not used in Australia, is not widely understood, and is not as descriptive as constitutional monarchy. Hawkeye7 (talk) 03:30, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but just saying it remained/became a constitutional monarchy could mean that it set up its own monarchy, distinct from the British monarchy. We need to communicate the continuity of Australia's allegiance to the British monarchy between pre-1901 and post-1901. -- JackofOz (talk) 07:51, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
What do the sources say? I'm and Australian, and I can't say that I've ever seen a description of Australia as being a 'Commonwealth realm'. A Google search of 'Australia Commonwealth realm' doesn't produce any reliable-looking sources in the first couple of pages of results ([4]), and the Queen's website states that "Australia is a constitutional monarchy with The Queen as Sovereign": [5], though Australia is in the drop down list of 'Commonwealth realms' at the top of the page. Nick-D (talk) 07:59, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well I've found this (Paper crown when Charles takes reign) which seems to point that Australia is a Commonwealth realm but again I request for more detailed information with sources before I can make a decision. Bidgee (talk) 08:15, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Why can't both have a place in the lead? Here is a suggestion:

It is just one possibility. -Rrius (talk) 03:29, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, I don't see why it should be a case of one or the other. I think your suggestion is an excellent way of incorporating both truths. --AussieLegend (talk) 03:44, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
For the information of RedKing, "Commonwealth Realm" is a *very* infrequently used term in Australia, even in constitutional law circles (my constitutional law textbook didn't mention it once). "Constitutional monarchy" is vastly more common; I would even go so far to say that this is an imported Canadism, like "Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition" (never used in any official context in Australia). Slac speak up! 02:27, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
We are, nevertheless, both things. We're a constitutional monarchy because we're governed by a constitution and we have a monarch (regardless of who that monarch is); but because the monarch happens to be Elizabeth II, we're also a Commonwealth realm. Not all constitutional monarchies are Commonwealth realms, but all Commonwealth realms are constitutional monarchies. -- JackofOz (talk) 05:13, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well Australia is many things, but we don't have to include them all in the opening paragraph. Commonwealth realm may be an accurate description, but it is not one that strikes me as being commonly used in relation to Australia. I'm not fussed, but I can't see the point of including it. --Michael Johnson (talk) 07:30, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It may not be particularly often used in Australia, but if we write the article using only terms that are frequently used in Australia, it would be of less value to international readers. There seems little point in having an article called Commonwealth realm without mentioning - not just in that article but also in this one - that Australia is such an animal. -- JackofOz (talk) 12:06, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Can't it just say ...maintained a stable liberal democracy and a constitutional monarchy within the Commonwealth. (or something similar and better phrased)? Why not use both terms and get rid of that vague "political system" term? Night w (talk) 06:20, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

citation needed

The article is currently a FA, but how come it still has [citation needed] templates in a few sections? Aaroncrick(Tassie Boy talk) 09:04, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Because it is a high visibility article that is edited by a hell of a lot of people, making it difficult to maintain at FA standard for any length of time. This was featured in June 2005. It probably doesn't deserve to be featured now. Hesperian 01:22, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The FA criteria probably wasn't as strict back then. Although I must admit I was a bit surprised when i saw that is was a FA. Aaroncrick(Tassie Boy talk) 09:41, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
What about removing the info? That normally sparks a reaction - hopefully to find the cite. --Merbabu (talk) 23:01, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well there's a thought! Never thought about it that way. Aaroncrick(Tassie Boy talk) 09:56, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Category "Liberal democracies"

I think there is no more absolute consensus that Australia is a liberal democracy beacuse of strict Internet censorship. Therefore I will remove this article from category Category:Liberal democracies. —ilaiho (talk) 17:53, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

User:AussieLegend undid my edit, saying there is only one censored website. According to some recent news and that Wikipedia article, I have understood that there is much more irresponsible censorship than "one censored website". Anyway, this categorization is not very important for me. —ilaiho (talk) 17:07, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The United States, United Kingdom and New Zealand all censor the internet, and remain on the category Category:Liberal democracies. Hawkeye7 (talk) 22:05, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The idea that the government's censorship regime disqualifies Australia as a liberal democracy is absurd (as much as I may detest its planned internet filter scheme). Plenty of liberal democracies have more stringent censorship than Scandinavian countries (in fact, most do). Slac speak up! 04:54, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly, the ludicrous internet filtering proposal is currently a trial and is not (yet) an actual reality. Secondly, as the article on Liberal democracy points out, all such political structures do contain specific limits on specific freedoms. Every liberal democracy contains some internet restrictions on (for example) child pornography. As the article on the topic makes clear, the core of a liberal democracy is not any particular social law but the citizens elective rights, including free and fair elections and a competitive political system. Euryalus (talk) 09:47, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

How can a country with the Queen as a state head be a democracy??? And liberal??? Sorry but it doesn't work together. Monarchy is not a democracy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.69.27.220 (talk) 06:22, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Demography

Under the demography section, the information that only 70 aboriginal languages still exist is incorrect. According to the 2005 Ethnologue, which is the most authoritative linguistics survey, there are 280 recorded aboriginal languages, 238 still spoken and 42 extinct. I don't know how to change this since the article is protected. Also, there is no source for the claim that an indigenous language is the main language for 50,000 people. Gordon, Raymond G., Jr. (ed.), 2005. Ethnologue: Languages of the World, Fifteenth edition. Dallas, Tex.: SIL International. Online version: http://www.ethnologue.com/. Claritarejoice (talk) 17:55, 23 March 2009 (UTC) Claritarejoice[reply]

Australia Interactive Map

I suggest the Link below containing Google Interactive Map of Australia . http://www.all-maps.info/2009/03/australia-map.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kewaga (talk • contribs) 14:20, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Business Address?

Can you please add Australia's business address to this article. It is 1601 MASSACHUSETTS AVE NW C/O AUSTRALIAN EMBASSY WASHINGTON DC 20036 and Australis's company number is 0000805157. Source - http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-idea?CIK=0000805157&action=getcompany

Umm, no, I don't think so. --Michael Johnson (talk) 01:30, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Please keep in mind that Australia is also well known as the ' Down Under ' and the ' Wide Brown ' . Lejon (talk) 04:49, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Never heard of Wide Brown. Aaroncrick(Tassie Boy talk) 09:57, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
What are they teaching kids at school these days?
I love a sunburnt country,
A land of sweeping plains,
Of ragged mountain ranges,
Of drought and flooding rains.
I love her far horizons,
I love her jewel-sea,
Her beauty and her terror
The wide brown land for me!
If you say you've never heard of that..... --AussieLegend (talk) 10:31, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]


I think it's a good idea, but maybe we should post it to America's business address. Um, what's the US' business address? The US business address is being moved to Shanghai, right?--Merbabu (talk) 10:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Nah, it's somewhere in Calcutta. -Rrius (talk) 12:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Australia?Austria?

Maybe we should put a

Not to be confused with Austria.

here.People often make such mistake.Especially non-English native user like me.囧--半弯不直男 (talk) 13:54, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Developed country?

The statement: "Technologically advanced and industrialised, Australia is a prosperous multicultural country and has good results in many international comparisons of national performance such as health care, life expectancy, quality-of-life, human development, public education, economic freedom, and the protection of civil liberties and political rights." is quite misleading.

First - Australia has very poor internet network comparing to many countries in the world. Secondly, a country with slow and in some instances still not electrified trians cannot be technologically advanced. Industraliazed also is misleading - a country that is predominantly a primary producer, that doesn't manufacture even one bicycle, TV etc - cannot be called industrialized.

Multicultural? - just because there are many migrants - it doesn;t mean it is multicultural - when de facto it is an English colony which enforces English language at schools and English way of life.

Freedom with internet censorship cannot coexist. Democracy while still monarchy? Do you remember Whitlam Government??? Is this a democracy when the monarch can dissolve a government within one day????

Health care with long queues to emergecy units, and long queues for basic public health services such as dentist (usually people wait 2-3 years) is not at the top of the world.

Life expectancy - especially is local Aboriginal communities is very low.

Human development - still no bill of rights.

Public education - very low, no foreign languages at school, ranking very low in maths among other countries.

Hope you can amend this sentence and be true about Australia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.129.17.160 (talk) 01:45, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Woah--where do you live??? Australia has a higher percentage of Internet users per capita than Japan, the UK, the US, France... AWA Limited manufactures televisions and, I don't know about bicycles, but haven you ever heard of Holden?
The government doesn't enforce English culture--freedom of religion and society is guaranteed in the constitution and you only have to walk down a city street to notice multiculturalism. I live down the road from a mosque. And just because the GovGen can exercise dismissal powers (that have only ever been used in an emergency), doesn't mean she can impose direct rule--the people choose the government. On the Democracy Index, Australia is ranked among the top 10 most democratic countries in the world (alongside seven other monarchies) by The Economist.
I don't know where you line up for your health care provider, but is it not free? It's very expensive in most countries. Check this research, which ranks Australia's health care system above that of both Canada and the US. As for average life expectancy, Australia is ranked 5th by the UN. So it's not low "especially" in Aboriginal communities, just specifically in those communities.
Did you go to the "Developed country" page before you Wikilinked it for this section's title? Australia is ranked 4th...
We don't live in the Dark Ages down here...but I think you knew that, and were just ranting. If you're not happy with the level of freedom and development in Australia, then move to Scandinavia. Oh...but they're all monarchies....
Night w (talk) 07:29, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Anon commenter, it might help to consider issues of geography. Australia has about the same population as Sweden, Denmark, and Norway combined, spread across roughly ten times the land area. This has a lot of influence on what's practical for infrastructure projects (e.g. rail and communications). --GenericBob (talk) 23:49, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
[removed remainder of thread, which had ceased to be even tenuously related to how to improve the article. Hesperian 04:42, 24 April 2009 (UTC)][reply]

ref improve or remove

The following three lines are from the article:

Not supported by linked page, is Bean 1941 the reference? Conscription suggests that the inhabitants of 'Australia' were less enthusiastic!
  • Many Australians regard the defeat of the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps (ANZACs) at Gallipoli as the birth of the nation—its first major military action. ["Rudd angered by Gallipoli remarks". BBC News. 1 November 2008. Retrieved 2 November 2008.]
This swiped text is from a BBC article that contrasts the views of a former Prime Minister with the current one. Should we add ",... and many don't"?
Uncited! Analogous?
– cygnis insignis 05:33, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I added the appropriate cites from the recent scholarship, especially for Kakoda see Hank Nelson, 'Gallipoli, Kokoda and the Making of National Identity', J of Australian Studies online Rjensen (talk) 14:03, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
More likely, WP:FAR YellowMonkey (click here to vote for world cycling's #1 model!) 05:35, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with the 3 dot points. I also suspect that FAR may be in order. The risk is that once the FA status is questioned or removed, attempts to improve it could go the other wasy - ie, all bets are off and nothing is sacred. As major changes to the culture section over the last few months suggested, I suspect the article could lapse into a state of even less quality. At least the current FA status is a way to hold off decrease in article quality. Hmmmm --Merbabu (talk) 06:35, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree will all three dot points.
  • Supporting participation in the war and supporting conscription are two entirely separate issues. It is possible, and indeed highly likely than many people who opposed conscription (including servicing soldiers who voted) still supported Australia's participation in the war, with volunteer enlistment. This is neither contradictory or unusual. The war effort was popular and bipartisan and tested through elections. Casting Australia as an unwilling participant is historical revisionism. -- Mattinbgn\talk 01:27, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, the fact that "many don't" is obvious from the "Many Australians..." rather than "Most Australians..." or All Australians ..." This is nit-picking.
  • The Kokoda campaign was put forward by Keating as an new and better "Gallipoli" Sources for this should be easy to find. -- Mattinbgn\talk 01:27, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Let's not go too FAR :) There are many fine editors active there, but this is a the top priority article for a wikiproject with some of the best. cygnis insignis 13:09, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, if preventative action is taken it will be all fine and dandy, like when I pre-emptively referenced flag of Australia last year. There is a problem that if people make a lot of ad hoc edits the prose can become disjointed likke a list of trivia though. YellowMonkey (click here to vote for world cycling's #1 model!) 01:13, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

anon edits

it seems every single one needs to be reverted because of vandalism. can we get this page locked again? Rehumanist (talk) 12:58, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sporting Achievements

How about a section on Australia's many Sporting Achievements?

Also mention at the top of the article: Australia is a prosperous multicultural country and has excellent results in many international comparisons of national performance such as...


For such a small population they do extremely well and their culture is very sport orientated.

Esp:

Cricket (incl first team to beat England)

Olympics

Tennis (incl first to win all grand slams in one year)

Swimming

Rugby —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.16.182.28 (talk) 22:53, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Using words like prosperous, excellent and they do extremely well should not be used in an encyclopedia. If your idea is taken up only the facts should be put forward and whether it is deemed to be excellent or not is left up to the reader. Jack forbes (talk) 23:00, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Biology

Little/nothing is noted on the iology of Australia. I suggest the following be noted:- Kraft, G.T. 2007. Algae of Australia: Marine Benthic Algae of Lord Howe Island nd the Southern Great Barrier Reef, 1. Green Algae. ABRAS, Canberra, CSIRO Publishing, Melbourne, Australia. ISBN 9780643094421.Osborne 16:45, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Untitled

Ethnic groups listed wrongly. latest census states 3.5% aboriginal and 11% asian. also states other groups not listed. change it or remove it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.104.142.162 (talk) 09:27, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a citation from a reliable source? --AussieLegend (talk) 09:49, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Multi-Cultist

For over a decade multicultist doctrine has came under increasing criticism from may parts of Australian society.

for example:

Andrew Robb, then Parliamentary Secretary for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs, told a conference in November 2006 that some Australians worried the term "multicultural" had been transformed by interest groups into a philosophy that put "allegiances to original culture ahead of national loyalty, a philosophy which fosters separate development, a federation of ethnic cultures, not one community". He added: "A community of separate cultures fosters a rights mentality, rather than a responsibilities mentality. It is divisive. It works against quick and effective integration."[4]

The Australian citizenship test commenced in October 2007 for all new citizens between the ages of 18 and 60.[5]

In January 2007 the Howard Government removed the word "multicultural" from the name of the Department of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs, changing its name to the Department of Immigration and Citizenship.

Therefore, to simply state in this article that Australia is pro multicultist is completely out of date with the facts of today. I believe some mention of the changing of attitudes (including governments) to the theory must be included here.

Australia a Continent???

This aritcle states that Australia is a continent. Forgive me for saying this, but there are only 7 continents in the world which consist of Asia, Africa, Europe, North America, South America, Antarctica, and Oceania. Therefore, Australia is not a continent and stating such in this article is false. Australia is nation within Oceania. --Yoganate79 (talk) 02:40, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please see the first sentence of the Continent article and its supporting citation. Nick-D (talk) 02:44, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
As well as the numerous discussions about this very issue in the Talk page archives. Oceania is not a continent. It is a region. --AussieLegend (talk) 06:47, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Australia is the continent in the list you give, not Oceania, most of which is small island nations. --Dmol (talk) 08:01, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Having been involved in s similar discussion on this page, I'd like to suggest to Yoganate that he leaves it alone. "Continent" is a poorly defined term, which you can pretty much let mean what you want. So just let those editors continent themselves with their inaccuracy. Australians have been taught in school that "Australia is the largest island and the smallest continent", and pretty much everyone who edits this page believes that to be an important part of the red white and blue running through their veins. Leave alone that a goodly amount of what gets taught in school is bullshit: "Australia is the only place where marsupials are found" or "Australia was one of the first countries to have universal suffrage" occur immediately as examples. It appears to bother these editors not one whit that this argument leaves Tasmania, New Guinea, and most of Indonesia unattached to any continent. Moreover it appears to bother noone that this entire set of statements predates continental plate theory, Or that this statement was made as the protectorate of New Guinea was a part of Australia. One might as well write the whole article from the point of view of 1960s historians, with the noble attempts at integration of the poor abo kids into generous white families. However seeing as the statement about continents is absolutely unbased in any reality, and its just a throwaway line, its probably not worth it to argue over such a triviality. Except that its location in the first paragraph it gives the reader the impression that the scholarship for the whole article will be as slipshod. AKAF (talk) 15:10, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I remember you. You were the editor who claimed that the Australian Government's Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade website was an advertsing website and not a reliable source.[6] Welcome back and please remember, should you choose to present any arguments, rather than just attack the editors of this article and Australians in general, some civility will result in your comments gaining a better response than the incivility that you've just demonstrated. --AussieLegend (talk) 16:06, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Here's the truth about the government: they have departments whose purpose is to promote some aspect of Australia to the country and overseas (ie "Advertising", for some value of that word). And yes, the department of foreign affairs and trade is not a reliable reference for the same reason that an autobiography is not the authoritative guide to a person's life. In fact most government departments are not good references for an article about that department's government, and should be regarded as a primary source for the purposes of citing. So you'll excuse me if I find referencing such a site to be at best disingenuous. AKAF (talk) 08:18, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Continent discussions - for future reference

Past "Is Australia a continent?" and "Australia is not a continent" discussions, and related topics, may be found at:

I could have sworn it's been discussed more than that. --AussieLegend (talk) 09:15, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It really is quite sad that Australians are brainwashed and uneducated to think that their country is one of the classical continents found on earth. My question is, if Australia is considered a continent, then what continent does New Zealand belong to then? In any case, Greenland should also be classified as a continent then too. Let's classify Long Island, Cuba, Japan, and the British Isles their own continents too. --Yoganate79 (talk) 01:52, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Excuse me? Brainwashed and uneducated? How insulting! Bidgee (talk) 01:57, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly australia has better education systems than america. At least we can go to school without getting shot.
Australia a continent yes but australia is the figurehead of australasia a.k.a. oceania new zealand, papua new guinea and that fall under that continent.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.171.106.175 (talk • contribs)
Australasia is not "a.k.a." Oceania, it's a region of Oceania. Neither are continents. --AussieLegend (talk) 09:16, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Countries do not have to belong to a continent. Sorting out which continent the Maldives is located would be tricky. Furthermore, Australia is not a third world country with a tyrannical government. It terms of public brainwashing and lack of education, I'd encourage you to visit someday, and see if your comment is justified. ∗ \ / (⁂) 11:46, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

remains a Commonwealth realm

Do Editors think it is appropriate to say in the opening para that Australia "remains a Commonwealth realm"? Shouldn't the article say Australia is a "constitutional monarchy" - as that term is used in the UK article and Canada's. This is being discussed on Talk:United Kingdom. Regards. Redking7 (talk) 11:48, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I support using the "Constitutional monarchy" description in the opening para:

  1. Redking7 (talk) 11:48, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Hawkeye7 (talk) 03:25, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Slac speak up! 04:52, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  4. --Michael Johnson (talk) 07:30, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Night w (talk) 06:13, 22 April 2009 (UTC) (P.S. I also don't think it's a big deal).[reply]
  6. [Insert your username here]

I support using the Commonwealth realm" description in the opening para

  1. [Insert your username here]

Comments/Questions I need more detail in why should it be changed, whats more widely used (Commonwealth realm or Constitutional monarchy) in Australia (not just within the Commonwealth). Bidgee (talk) 11:52, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'd also like to know why it should be changed. I should point out that Wikipedia works on consensus, not voting, so the polls here and at Talk:United Kingdom are premature. It's not appropriate to make a post on one article's talk page and declare consensus at another, which is what prompted Bidgee's reversion.[7] You need to actually discuss the issue before consensus can be reached and this particular matter needs to be discussed here. --AussieLegend (talk) 12:26, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Have a look at Talk:United Kingdom - its being discussed there too (more editors are involved on that page). Regards. Redking7 (talk) 21:59, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion at Talk:United Kingdom is about use at United Kingdom, not here. As I indicated on your talk page,[8] any consensus achieved at Talk:United Kingdom does not immediately become applicable here. You need to discuss the issue here, not there and explain why the change should occur here. --AussieLegend (talk) 01:19, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I support the reference. However, the purpose of it is to get across that when the colonies federated in 1901, the new country did not "go it alone" as a republic, but continued to be part of the Commonwealth (or Empire as it was then) and continued to acknowledge the British monarch as its monarch. It's also a constitutional monarchy of course, but maybe the purpose of this reference to Commonwealth realms could be spelled out a little more explicitly. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:52, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Constitutional monarchy is a widely understood term. Commonwealth realm is a term not used in Australia, is not widely understood, and is not as descriptive as constitutional monarchy. Hawkeye7 (talk) 03:30, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but just saying it remained/became a constitutional monarchy could mean that it set up its own monarchy, distinct from the British monarchy. We need to communicate the continuity of Australia's allegiance to the British monarchy between pre-1901 and post-1901. -- JackofOz (talk) 07:51, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
What do the sources say? I'm and Australian, and I can't say that I've ever seen a description of Australia as being a 'Commonwealth realm'. A Google search of 'Australia Commonwealth realm' doesn't produce any reliable-looking sources in the first couple of pages of results ([9]), and the Queen's website states that "Australia is a constitutional monarchy with The Queen as Sovereign": [10], though Australia is in the drop down list of 'Commonwealth realms' at the top of the page. Nick-D (talk) 07:59, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well I've found this (Paper crown when Charles takes reign) which seems to point that Australia is a Commonwealth realm but again I request for more detailed information with sources before I can make a decision. Bidgee (talk) 08:15, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Why can't both have a place in the lead? Here is a suggestion:

It is just one possibility. -Rrius (talk) 03:29, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, I don't see why it should be a case of one or the other. I think your suggestion is an excellent way of incorporating both truths. --AussieLegend (talk) 03:44, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
For the information of RedKing, "Commonwealth Realm" is a *very* infrequently used term in Australia, even in constitutional law circles (my constitutional law textbook didn't mention it once). "Constitutional monarchy" is vastly more common; I would even go so far to say that this is an imported Canadism, like "Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition" (never used in any official context in Australia). Slac speak up! 02:27, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
We are, nevertheless, both things. We're a constitutional monarchy because we're governed by a constitution and we have a monarch (regardless of who that monarch is); but because the monarch happens to be Elizabeth II, we're also a Commonwealth realm. Not all constitutional monarchies are Commonwealth realms, but all Commonwealth realms are constitutional monarchies. -- JackofOz (talk) 05:13, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well Australia is many things, but we don't have to include them all in the opening paragraph. Commonwealth realm may be an accurate description, but it is not one that strikes me as being commonly used in relation to Australia. I'm not fussed, but I can't see the point of including it. --Michael Johnson (talk) 07:30, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It may not be particularly often used in Australia, but if we write the article using only terms that are frequently used in Australia, it would be of less value to international readers. There seems little point in having an article called Commonwealth realm without mentioning - not just in that article but also in this one - that Australia is such an animal. -- JackofOz (talk) 12:06, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Can't it just say ...maintained a stable liberal democracy and a constitutional monarchy within the Commonwealth. (or something similar and better phrased)? Why not use both terms and get rid of that vague "political system" term? Night w (talk) 06:20, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

citation needed

The article is currently a FA, but how come it still has [citation needed] templates in a few sections? Aaroncrick(Tassie Boy talk) 09:04, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Because it is a high visibility article that is edited by a hell of a lot of people, making it difficult to maintain at FA standard for any length of time. This was featured in June 2005. It probably doesn't deserve to be featured now. Hesperian 01:22, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The FA criteria probably wasn't as strict back then. Although I must admit I was a bit surprised when i saw that is was a FA. Aaroncrick(Tassie Boy talk) 09:41, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
What about removing the info? That normally sparks a reaction - hopefully to find the cite. --Merbabu (talk) 23:01, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well there's a thought! Never thought about it that way. Aaroncrick(Tassie Boy talk) 09:56, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Category "Liberal democracies"

I think there is no more absolute consensus that Australia is a liberal democracy beacuse of strict Internet censorship. Therefore I will remove this article from category Category:Liberal democracies. —ilaiho (talk) 17:53, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

User:AussieLegend undid my edit, saying there is only one censored website. According to some recent news and that Wikipedia article, I have understood that there is much more irresponsible censorship than "one censored website". Anyway, this categorization is not very important for me. —ilaiho (talk) 17:07, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The United States, United Kingdom and New Zealand all censor the internet, and remain on the category Category:Liberal democracies. Hawkeye7 (talk) 22:05, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The idea that the government's censorship regime disqualifies Australia as a liberal democracy is absurd (as much as I may detest its planned internet filter scheme). Plenty of liberal democracies have more stringent censorship than Scandinavian countries (in fact, most do). Slac speak up! 04:54, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly, the ludicrous internet filtering proposal is currently a trial and is not (yet) an actual reality. Secondly, as the article on Liberal democracy points out, all such political structures do contain specific limits on specific freedoms. Every liberal democracy contains some internet restrictions on (for example) child pornography. As the article on the topic makes clear, the core of a liberal democracy is not any particular social law but the citizens elective rights, including free and fair elections and a competitive political system. Euryalus (talk) 09:47, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

How can a country with the Queen as a state head be a democracy??? And liberal??? Sorry but it doesn't work together. Monarchy is not a democracy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.69.27.220 (talk) 06:22, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Demography

Under the demography section, the information that only 70 aboriginal languages still exist is incorrect. According to the 2005 Ethnologue, which is the most authoritative linguistics survey, there are 280 recorded aboriginal languages, 238 still spoken and 42 extinct. I don't know how to change this since the article is protected. Also, there is no source for the claim that an indigenous language is the main language for 50,000 people. Gordon, Raymond G., Jr. (ed.), 2005. Ethnologue: Languages of the World, Fifteenth edition. Dallas, Tex.: SIL International. Online version: http://www.ethnologue.com/. Claritarejoice (talk) 17:55, 23 March 2009 (UTC) Claritarejoice[reply]

Australia Interactive Map

I suggest the Link below containing Google Interactive Map of Australia . http://www.all-maps.info/2009/03/australia-map.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kewaga (talk • contribs) 14:20, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Business Address?

Can you please add Australia's business address to this article. It is 1601 MASSACHUSETTS AVE NW C/O AUSTRALIAN EMBASSY WASHINGTON DC 20036 and Australis's company number is 0000805157. Source - http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-idea?CIK=0000805157&action=getcompany

Umm, no, I don't think so. --Michael Johnson (talk) 01:30, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Please keep in mind that Australia is also well known as the ' Down Under ' and the ' Wide Brown ' . Lejon (talk) 04:49, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Never heard of Wide Brown. Aaroncrick(Tassie Boy talk) 09:57, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
What are they teaching kids at school these days?
I love a sunburnt country,
A land of sweeping plains,
Of ragged mountain ranges,
Of drought and flooding rains.
I love her far horizons,
I love her jewel-sea,
Her beauty and her terror
The wide brown land for me!
If you say you've never heard of that..... --AussieLegend (talk) 10:31, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]


I think it's a good idea, but maybe we should post it to America's business address. Um, what's the US' business address? The US business address is being moved to Shanghai, right?--Merbabu (talk) 10:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Nah, it's somewhere in Calcutta. -Rrius (talk) 12:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Australia?Austria?

Maybe we should put a

Not to be confused with Austria.

here.People often make such mistake.Especially non-English native user like me.囧--半弯不直男 (talk) 13:54, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Developed country?

The statement: "Technologically advanced and industrialised, Australia is a prosperous multicultural country and has good results in many international comparisons of national performance such as health care, life expectancy, quality-of-life, human development, public education, economic freedom, and the protection of civil liberties and political rights." is quite misleading.

First - Australia has very poor internet network comparing to many countries in the world. Secondly, a country with slow and in some instances still not electrified trians cannot be technologically advanced. Industraliazed also is misleading - a country that is predominantly a primary producer, that doesn't manufacture even one bicycle, TV etc - cannot be called industrialized.

Multicultural? - just because there are many migrants - it doesn;t mean it is multicultural - when de facto it is an English colony which enforces English language at schools and English way of life.

Freedom with internet censorship cannot coexist. Democracy while still monarchy? Do you remember Whitlam Government??? Is this a democracy when the monarch can dissolve a government within one day????

Health care with long queues to emergecy units, and long queues for basic public health services such as dentist (usually people wait 2-3 years) is not at the top of the world.

Life expectancy - especially is local Aboriginal communities is very low.

Human development - still no bill of rights.

Public education - very low, no foreign languages at school, ranking very low in maths among other countries.

Hope you can amend this sentence and be true about Australia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.129.17.160 (talk) 01:45, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Woah--where do you live??? Australia has a higher percentage of Internet users per capita than Japan, the UK, the US, France... AWA Limited manufactures televisions and, I don't know about bicycles, but haven you ever heard of Holden?
The government doesn't enforce English culture--freedom of religion and society is guaranteed in the constitution and you only have to walk down a city street to notice multiculturalism. I live down the road from a mosque. And just because the GovGen can exercise dismissal powers (that have only ever been used in an emergency), doesn't mean she can impose direct rule--the people choose the government. On the Democracy Index, Australia is ranked among the top 10 most democratic countries in the world (alongside seven other monarchies) by The Economist.
I don't know where you line up for your health care provider, but is it not free? It's very expensive in most countries. Check this research, which ranks Australia's health care system above that of both Canada and the US. As for average life expectancy, Australia is ranked 5th by the UN. So it's not low "especially" in Aboriginal communities, just specifically in those communities.
Did you go to the "Developed country" page before you Wikilinked it for this section's title? Australia is ranked 4th...
We don't live in the Dark Ages down here...but I think you knew that, and were just ranting. If you're not happy with the level of freedom and development in Australia, then move to Scandinavia. Oh...but they're all monarchies....
Night w (talk) 07:29, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Anon commenter, it might help to consider issues of geography. Australia has about the same population as Sweden, Denmark, and Norway combined, spread across roughly ten times the land area. This has a lot of influence on what's practical for infrastructure projects (e.g. rail and communications). --GenericBob (talk) 23:49, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
[removed remainder of thread, which had ceased to be even tenuously related to how to improve the article. Hesperian 04:42, 24 April 2009 (UTC)][reply]

ref improve or remove

The following three lines are from the article:

Not supported by linked page, is Bean 1941 the reference? Conscription suggests that the inhabitants of 'Australia' were less enthusiastic!
This swiped text is from a BBC article that contrasts the views of a former Prime Minister with the current one. Should we add ",... and many don't"?
Uncited! Analogous?
– cygnis insignis 05:33, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I added the appropriate cites from the recent scholarship, especially for Kakoda see Hank Nelson, 'Gallipoli, Kokoda and the Making of National Identity', J of Australian Studies online Rjensen (talk) 14:03, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
More likely, WP:FAR YellowMonkey (click here to vote for world cycling's #1 model!) 05:35, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with the 3 dot points. I also suspect that FAR may be in order. The risk is that once the FA status is questioned or removed, attempts to improve it could go the other wasy - ie, all bets are off and nothing is sacred. As major changes to the culture section over the last few months suggested, I suspect the article could lapse into a state of even less quality. At least the current FA status is a way to hold off decrease in article quality. Hmmmm --Merbabu (talk) 06:35, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree will all three dot points.
  • Supporting participation in the war and supporting conscription are two entirely separate issues. It is possible, and indeed highly likely than many people who opposed conscription (including servicing soldiers who voted) still supported Australia's participation in the war, with volunteer enlistment. This is neither contradictory or unusual. The war effort was popular and bipartisan and tested through elections. Casting Australia as an unwilling participant is historical revisionism. -- Mattinbgn\talk 01:27, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, the fact that "many don't" is obvious from the "Many Australians..." rather than "Most Australians..." or All Australians ..." This is nit-picking.
  • The Kokoda campaign was put forward by Keating as an new and better "Gallipoli" Sources for this should be easy to find. -- Mattinbgn\talk 01:27, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Let's not go too FAR :) There are many fine editors active there, but this is a the top priority article for a wikiproject with some of the best. cygnis insignis 13:09, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, if preventative action is taken it will be all fine and dandy, like when I pre-emptively referenced flag of Australia last year. There is a problem that if people make a lot of ad hoc edits the prose can become disjointed likke a list of trivia though. YellowMonkey (click here to vote for world cycling's #1 model!) 01:13, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

anon edits

it seems every single one needs to be reverted because of vandalism. can we get this page locked again? Rehumanist (talk) 12:58, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sporting Achievements

How about a section on Australia's many Sporting Achievements?

Also mention at the top of the article: Australia is a prosperous multicultural country and has excellent results in many international comparisons of national performance such as...


For such a small population they do extremely well and their culture is very sport orientated.

Esp:

Cricket (incl first team to beat England)

Olympics

Tennis (incl first to win all grand slams in one year)

Swimming

Rugby —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.16.182.28 (talk) 22:53, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Using words like prosperous, excellent and they do extremely well should not be used in an encyclopedia. If your idea is taken up only the facts should be put forward and whether it is deemed to be excellent or not is left up to the reader. Jack forbes (talk) 23:00, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Biology

Little/nothing is noted on the iology of Australia. I suggest the following be noted:- Kraft, G.T. 2007. Algae of Australia: Marine Benthic Algae of Lord Howe Island nd the Southern Great Barrier Reef, 1. Green Algae. ABRAS, Canberra, CSIRO Publishing, Melbourne, Australia. ISBN 9780643094421.Osborne 16:45, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Untitled

Ethnic groups listed wrongly. latest census states 3.5% aboriginal and 11% asian. also states other groups not listed. change it or remove it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.104.142.162 (talk) 09:27, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a citation from a reliable source? --AussieLegend (talk) 09:49, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Multi-Cultist

For over a decade multicultist doctrine has came under increasing criticism from may parts of Australian society.

for example:

Andrew Robb, then Parliamentary Secretary for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs, told a conference in November 2006 that some Australians worried the term "multicultural" had been transformed by interest groups into a philosophy that put "allegiances to original culture ahead of national loyalty, a philosophy which fosters separate development, a federation of ethnic cultures, not one community". He added: "A community of separate cultures fosters a rights mentality, rather than a responsibilities mentality. It is divisive. It works against quick and effective integration."[9]

The Australian citizenship test commenced in October 2007 for all new citizens between the ages of 18 and 60.[10]

In January 2007 the Howard Government removed the word "multicultural" from the name of the Department of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs, changing its name to the Department of Immigration and Citizenship.

Therefore, to simply state in this article that Australia is pro multicultist is completely out of date with the facts of today. I believe some mention of the changing of attitudes (including governments) to the theory must be included here.

  1. ^ First Australians Documentary (Episode 1), Special Broadcasting Service, Australia, 2008.
  2. ^ Both Australian Aborigines and Europeans Rooted in Africa - 50,000 years ago
  3. ^ MacKnight, CC (1976). The Voyage to Marege: Macassan Trepangers in Northern Australia. Melbourne University Press
  4. ^ The Courier Mail: National identity in spotlight, November 28, 2006 [11].
  5. ^ Department of Immigration and Citizenship: Overview of the citizenship test [12]
  6. ^ First Australians Documentary (Episode 1), Special Broadcasting Service, Australia, 2008.
  7. ^ Both Australian Aborigines and Europeans Rooted in Africa - 50,000 years ago
  8. ^ MacKnight, CC (1976). The Voyage to Marege: Macassan Trepangers in Northern Australia. Melbourne University Press
  9. ^ The Courier Mail: National identity in spotlight, November 28, 2006 [13].
  10. ^ Department of Immigration and Citizenship: Overview of the citizenship test [14]
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