Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Food and drink

We now have our own barnstar

{{The Food and Drink Barnstar}}

To use this template, add
{{subst:The Food and Drink Barnstar|put your citation here ~~~~}} to the talk page of the user to whom you wish to award it. Here is how you it will look:

		The Food and Drink Barnstar
		You put your message here. Don't forget to sign it with four tildes!

Other barnstars can be found on the barnstars page, all follow the same format.

--Jeremy ( Blah blah...) 02:04, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Coordinators' working group

Hi! I'd like to draw your attention to the new WikiProject coordinators' working group, an effort to bring both official and unofficial WikiProject coordinators together so that the projects can more easily develop consensus and collaborate. This group has been created after discussion regarding possible changes to the A-Class review system, and that may be one of the first things discussed by interested coordinators.

All designated project coordinators are invited to join this working group. If your project hasn't formally designated any editors as coordinators, but you are someone who regularly deals with coordination tasks in the project, please feel free to join as well. — Delievered by §hepBot (Disable) on behalf of the WikiProject coordinators' working group at 05:27, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Pepperoncini

A merge discussion on Talk:Pepperoncini and an open request for sources could use input from this project. Viriditas (talk) 13:55, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Malt In Maltesers

I would like to know if there is anyone out there who has noticed the lack there of Malt in Maltesers now compared to psat years. I am 40 years young and i do remember when i was much younger enjoying my Maltesers as i particularly love the taste of Malt.

I wonder if it is a case of the Mars Corporation doing with the Malt what they are doing with the Mars Bars... reducing for the same price?????

I have been trying to find the malt content from past years to now but with the —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.49.137.43 (talk) 11:59, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Delmonico's Restaurant

Hi all. We've got a discussion going on over at Talk:Delmonico's Restaurant#POV/synthesis text as to whether or not some text should be included, on the grounds that it might be POV or synthesized. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! — HelloAnnyong ^{(say whaaat?!)} 16:19, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Alfalfa

FYI, Alfalfa → Medicago sativa - requested move has been filed. 70.29.208.69 (talk) 03:07, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Hedsup on Haute Cuisine

My copy of Larousse Gastronomique is out to lunch at the moment, but I thought it said "haute cuisine" is a purely historical form of cooking that no longer exists. If so, the Wikipedia article goes way off the deep end.

Calamitybrook (talk) 22:56, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I've commented on this as well. My impression is that this term is so vague that it doesn't even qualify as a valid encyclopedic topic.

Peter ^Isotalo 04:41, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Cheeseburger

This is also posted on Wikipedia:No original research/Noticeboard#Cheeseburger

The cheese in a cheeseburger substantially changes its nutritional value. For example, in comparison to their standard hamburger, which only differs by the slice of cheese, a McDonald's cheeseburger has 20% more calories, 33% more fat and 25% more protein. Other types of cheese would have varying effects, depending on their nutritional content.

This paragraph is from the lead of the cheeseburger article. I removed this passage as I believe it to be a violation of WP:Synth because it takes facts about McDonald's cheeseburgers and hamburgers and makes a comparative analysis of the nutritional makeup of the two, which I contend is synthesized original research.

NJGW contends that is simple calculations and thus is exempt from the original research guidelines.

I would like some comments from independent contributors on the matter. --Jeremy (blah blah) 08:01, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Sauropus

I am concerned about the recommendation to eat this plant: see

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=ShowPDF&ProduktNr=224278&Ausgabe=226551&ArtikelNr=29336

I have no knowledge of the bone fide's of the report, but it's existence suggests that the Wiki entry ought to mention the possible problems with ingesting this plant

Sauropus androgynus

I am concerned about the recommendation to eat this plant: see

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=ShowPDF&ProduktNr=224278&Ausgabe=226551&ArtikelNr=29336

I have no knowledge of the bone fide's of the report, but it's existence suggests that the Wiki entry ought to mention the possible problems with ingesting this plant —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.1.220.199 (talk) 02:41, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Well wikipedia never should recommend anything, that is distinctly POV. We report that it is eaten as a vegetable in certain countries, that's just a statement of fact. We should also have a comment about its harmful effects as well though, I agree. Pyrope 15:31, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

I see no issue here. The article indicates clearly it may cause lung damage. --JohnnyB256 (talk) 18:37, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

It does now... ;-) Pyrope 21:07, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Coffee#.22origin.22_of_coffee_--_Yemen_v._Ethiopia_.28.3F.29

Hi,

I'm unable to continue editing the coffee page, so I just want to bring to the attention, of the relevant Wikiproject, that there are some unsettled issues at coffee and history of coffee that are mentioned in the talk section above -- namely: although a well-documented history of coffee does seem to exist, we're having a heck of a time distilling that history from the myths, legends, misconceptions, and nationalist biases that appear in various casually-written sources (even on Google books). I've included links to a half-dozen high-quality sources in that talk section, plus some text that I transcribed into my user space. Hope you guys don't mind my surrendering the baton -- I gotta get back to WP:SCOTUS. Cheers. Agradman ^talk/_contribs 05:32, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Capitalisation of WikiProject Name

Please forgive me if this is answered somewhere in the Archives (11 of them at time of this question). I did scan the headings in each archive but didn't see one that matched this question. Why is "drink" not capitalised in the WikiProject name? Thank you very much. Psemmusa (talk) 17:05, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Probably because it's not a proper noun. –xeno^talk 17:08, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Naming conventions (cuisines)

This is the proposed naming convention on cuisines that has been percolating for some time, I would like to request F&D members to please take a look and comment on its talk page. This is a very important rule set that needs to be decided upon, if you wish to establish or please comment under the appropriate section. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 07:28, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Dry ice

 Completed  Chzz  ►  01:14, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Utility of outlines to wikiprojects

Here's a discussion about subject development you might find interesting.

The Transhumanist    21:54, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Corned beef sandwich

It's been a few months without anyone turning Corned beef sandwich into a real article that conveys notability beyond a WP:DICDEF and a couple of pieces of trivia. Any thoughts? —Largo Plazo (talk) 15:37, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I think a merge and redirect to corned beef would be okay. I think it's a notable sandwich so it's just a question of the best way to include it: in the broader subject or as a stand-alone. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:11, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

What a shame. Corned beef sandwiches are an integral part of the culture. However, I don't have time to invest in it myself.--JohnnyB256 (talk) 17:33, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Whose culture? I think a merge is fine. Unless you can expand the topic beyond "corned beef and condiment served between two slices of bread"... Pyrope 17:38, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Quite a few non-cookbook references in Google Books.[1] --JohnnyB256 (talk) 17:52, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Occasional mentions of someone famous having eaten a corned beef sandwich don't really constitute "integral to the culture" This is hardly motherhood and apple pie territory. Pyrope 17:58, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Heh. I expected a lot bigger ham sandwich. --JohnnyB256 (talk) 18:09, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Why merge? The sandwich should have its own article. Just give some time for now. I'm sure some of us (or me) would expand it.--Caspian blue 18:12, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree. Apparently all these sandwich aritcles have issues. Look at tuna fish sandwich, which is larger. --JohnnyB256 (talk) 18:15, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Because the finer you dice an encyclopedia like this, the harder it becomes to use. If you are forever having to click blue links for snippets of information as are contained in those stubs navigating becomes tedious and you don't get all the information in one place. There is no need to have separate one-paragraph articles like these, it just serves to confuse things. Pyrope 18:30, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Then to be consistent I think you'd have to merge all the sandwich stubs. Why single out corned beef?--JohnnyB256 (talk) 18:55, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Good question, I wasn't. Pyrope 19:30, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I thought the point of any stub was to get an article in place where it's presumed that there's material that could appropriately be added to it and that would make it worthwhile for someone to find the article. If the article is going to go indefinitely without any valuable information, what's the point? As it says at WP:STUB, "While a 'definition' may be enough to qualify an article as a stub, Wikipedia is not a dictionary. If little [emphasis mine] other information is ever likely to be added, the entry should go to our sister project, Wiktionary." —Largo Plazo (talk) 19:45, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Some of those sandwich stubs are informative. I had no idea there was such a thing as a chow mein sandwich.--JohnnyB256 (talk) 19:55, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Some sandwiches are independently notable. They have distinct histories and cultural significance. Other sandwiches are variants on the meat between two slice of bread meme and can be covered in the relevant meat's article. I see no indication that this sandwich is notable enough for its own article. If someone wants to expand it or add content to establish its significance, then have at it. But as another editor pointed out, splitting things up can be counterproductive if it serves no purpose. Besides the bread invovled, is there a distinction between corned beef and a corned beef sandwich? ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:58, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Notability Criteria for Vineyards and Wineries

As you may know, there is an AfD at the moment concerning List of vineyards and wineries here (it's the second time it's been AfD-d). The proposer is unhappy that there are no apparent clear criteria for notability for inclusion. I'm not familiar with this area of wiki; could anyone care to suggest suitable criteria? Many thanks.VsevolodKrolikov (talk) 11:52, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

See WP:Wine. Rmhermen (talk) 23:46, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Cut of meat

Someone please make a stub or suitable redirect for Cut of meat. The term is used on many Wikipedia articles. --Una Smith (talk) 04:00, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Cuts of beef, cuts of pork --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 04:21, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

2 articles and 4 articles respectively --Caspian blue 04:43, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

(ec)

You've certainly hit on a 'missing link' there, Caspian blue; I noticed it earlier today, when I created a stub on Scrag end.

I have, just now, made redirs from Cuts of meat and Cut of meat to Butcher - on the basis that redirects are cheap, and it's better than nothing. However, I do think that a very good article could be made on the subject; with all the national variations on cuts, it would be a very interesting topic. I hope that I will have time to return to it, one day.  Chzz  ►  05:02, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I edited Butcher to receive the redirected traffic more gracefully. --Una Smith (talk) 05:08, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

By the way, there is also Primal cut. --Una Smith (talk) 05:09, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I have been working on Fatback, and wondering if it qualifies as a primal cut, when it is cut. It seems to be almost unknown outside of Europe...? --Una Smith (talk) 05:13, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, this is part of the interest - and why it could easily make a great article. There are many significant national variations, and even significant regional ones. FWIW, I've never heard of "Fatback" - I'm UK - is it the same as what we'd call Back bacon perhaps?  Chzz  ►  01:11, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I may be American, but I know what fatback is. It's this layer of fat that runs along the back of the pig. It's sometimes used in sausage making. Altonbrownisawesome (talk) 23:27, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

You are making many article changes that do not conform to our policy of verifiability. This is not the place for your own experience or knowledge; all additions/changes need to be cited by a reliable source. Thanks! Tan | 39 00:00, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Chile

I'm trying to correct articles about chiles that spell them as chili. If you're wondering why, it's because that spelling is actually historically correct. Christopher Columbus, when he found them, named them as what would be in English "chile". "Chili" came about when the fruits came to other countries. Anyways, I'm wondering if I could get some help with this, as there are way too many articles about these peppers that spell them with an i for me to correct alone. Altonbrownisawesome (talk) 23:27, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

You should have discussed this first, per WP:Common name chili is the proper spelling of the word. We do not go by historical naming bu the current accepted name. You could note the original spelling in the history, but you should leave the name as chili pepper. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 20:16, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

GA Reassessment of Alcohol in the Bible

I have done a GA Reassessment of the Alcohol in the Bible article as part of the GA Sweeps project. My reassessment can be found here. I have found that the article does not meet the current GA Criteria and as such I have placed it on hold for one week pending work. I am notifying all interested projects and editors of this in the hopes that an editor will come forth to work on the article. Should you have questions or concerns please contact me at my talk page. H1nkles (talk) 20:03, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Cruditès

This article could use a better picture like of a vegetable platter with dip. I couldn't find one on Wikipedia or Commons. I find it hard to believe such a common item isn't represented here. Perhaps my searching skills just failed. Anyone seen such a picture? Rmhermen (talk) 00:05, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Bamboo

Bamboo is unrated by this wikiproject and is also badly in need of cleanup and rewrites. The Culinary section lacks any references, for example. I've been working a bit in the other sections of it. EllePollack (talk) 03:39, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

New cats for uncooked meat/fish foods?

I was reading up on carpaccio and sashimi, and realised there are no cats organising uncooked meat/fish dishes. I suggest that the use of uncooked animal flesh is distinctive enough to rate its own categories, so I've created Category:Uncooked fish dishes and Category:Uncooked meat dishes. Just running them up the flagpole and seeing if anyone salutes. I picked "uncooked" over "raw" as being more technical and arguably less cooked-food-normative. Plus there are citrus-soaked foods like ceviche where the term "raw" is maybe less applicable, though "cooked" is arguable too. In any case, would appreciate input as to whether the new cats are properly phrased, and if so help with populating them. MatthewVanitas (talk) 22:47, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Not a bad idea at first blush. But I wonder whether you would include cured and smoked meat and fish in such a category.--JohnnyB256 (talk) 20:13, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

I believe curing and smoking are cooking techniques. Let's look into the current cat format for dishes in general and see what needs to be added, merged and deleted. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 01:39, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

The wiki definition refers to curing as a "food preservation" method, though it often involves smoking, which sometimes is a form of cooking. I wouldn't call lox a "cooked" food. I think this issue needs to be resolved fairly early. Since including cured and smoked foods would make the category overbroad, perhaps another term can be used or it can be defined so as to exclude cured and smoked products. "Raw" might be a more precise term if you want to do that.--JohnnyB256 (talk) 13:49, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

I think using "raw" is a good idea as well. Lets go with that and work from there.

Here is my suggestion:

• Category:Meat dishes
  • → Category:Raw meat dishes
  • → Category:Smoked meat dishes
• Category:Seafood dishes
  • → Category:Fish dishes
    • → Category:Raw fish dishes
    • → Category:Smoked fish dishes

--Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 18:03, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Where do cured meats fall? And what about ceviche, which is an example of something "cooked" via the a preparation without heat. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:57, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

• What about "half dried" dishes like Gwamegi without any salting and curing process? --Caspian blue 21:08, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
• Is the conclusion that uncooked meat dishes is the way to go? I think so. That can include various curing, pickling, and dried preparations. Unless we want to have individual categories for those? ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:02, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Informal input into Boletus edulis going towards GA or FA eventually...

I'd be grateful if folks interested in food and drink could comment on the consumption and cooking sections of Boletus edulis, on what more is needed for comprehenisveness etc. Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:28, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

DRINK - RICE WINE

Dear all, greetings.

I'm planning to go into a small-time rice wine making, specifically to cater for festivals, weddings, special events, and ,of course, direct-sales to targeted customers. And, also to those who use them in dishes, while some for mothers’ afterbirth-giving special dishes (usually steamed or boiled in heavy ginger chicken soup or stew). But, I don't intend to get them sold on shelves, that is. My mother-in-law has been making rice wine for more than a decade at her village, before I got married to her daughter. In any case, I am not really all that crazy over drinking rice wine for pleasure because it can be so sweet (although no sugar added) and sticky in the throat after 2-3 packs. However, I could see some potential market and plan to tune myself into it when I relief myself from office-field works and to start business, among other things, from home at 50...in less than a year's time.

I hope I could get some generous professional advice from this site. Bottling, labeling and marketing are all taken care of.

Okay, I'll get to the points now:

(1) How do I produce the wine in clear colour, if let's say I would want it to be sorta in pinkish? Commonly done (the finished product), when it is drained out for consumption, the colour is somewhat smoky or chalky. For a start, I'd like to market this product with a difference.

(2) How do I control the sweetness of the wine? It could become much too sweet to drink sometimes. (On the other hand, it could become pretty sour too, if the yeasts used were not well done, or otherwise the jar may not be very dry and clean before the ingredients were filled, or the jar was disturbed prematurely, also, perhaps due to the room’s temperature not being consistent. You see, normally, as how it is traditionally prepared, it is done without proper guidelines, or environment. Some simply stored them at some corners of the kitchen, cupboards, or partially broken down store at the backyards.) Even if it was all done under proper care, we still may risk the wine to become kinda sourish. We obtain the yeast from the market and we can’t really tell that they come from the same source or maker, or whether it was done with consistency even by the same person, unless we make the yeast ourselves. In any case, I am more concern of lessen down the sweetness to be consistently in the next produce and after that. (3) I am also keen to know how I could go about identifying its alcohol content, and controlling it to a certain level. The ones we produce here could reach, to my own wild guess, 15 - 25% v.v. The beers we normally consume here is 5.5%. Or maybe, what the heck, just concentrate on it’s consistency in taste and colour. How much to consume to get the kicks is immaterial, ya? All that matters is the wine comes from the jar with similar amount of yeast mixed with fixed amount of cooked rice.

Thanks a lot for your help. I also welcome all other advices that could help in my home-made produce of rice wine.

Jose Jr. Sabah (North Borneo) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.82.91.104 (talk) 04:31, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a manual. I'm sure there are people here could help you out with your rice wine venture, but this is not the place to discuss it. Talk pages, even those of individual projects, are intended for discussion about article improvement, not general do-it-yourself-guides.

Peter ^Isotalo 06:34, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

When do cloam ovens date from?

I have a cloam oven in the old cornish farmhouse I own. It has a wrought iron hinged door and the inside of the oven appears to be cut from a single piece of granite. The fireplace itself is of rough slate-like pieces but with large pillars either side and a heavy lintel all of granite each about 2m x 60cm x 20cm with roughly cut bevels on the edges. 86.162.161.52 (talk) 20:01, 7 September 2009 (UTC)