Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cricket

The Ashes

Hi. Why is there a raft of different naming conventions used for The Ashes articles? Why are some titled Year Ashes series and others in the style of x team in y in year? Thanks. Lugnuts (talk) 13:49, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

They are redirects just to help in search queries. --Umar1996 (talk) 09:05, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Not really—redirects in a category will show in italics. Some are articles about individual Ashes series (ie. Tests only) and some cover a whole tour which include non-Test matches. –Moondyne 09:36, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

But there is no consistency. I think they all should be "X team in Y, YEAR" because it is rare that the touring matches are so notable that they can't occupy the same space as the Ashes Tests. S.G.^(GH) _ping! 13:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

The Ashes? What is that? I have never heard of it. I am convinced all you Englishmen are making this up :) -- Mattinbgn (talk) 23:58, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

I'd currently prefer not to have heard of the Ashes; it's carnage out there at the moment. I haven't seen an Australian attack so toothless since the mid 80s. Harris is the sole bowler causing any problems while Doherty is bowling as well as you'd expect the second string spinner from Tasmania would. Drop North and Doherty and bring in Daniel Christian and Hauritz for a start. --Roisterer (talk) 02:11, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

How many players will Aus have played by the end of the series? sheesh Aaroncrick ^TALK 22:56, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

At least 20 at this rate. Clarke is clearly injured and should not be playing. Doherty is out of his depth. North can't have any lives left and the theory behind his selection is flawed in any case. Harris' body will not stand up to the strain of bowling 30+ overs an innings. Siddle tries hard but is one-dimensional. Hilfenhaus and Bollinger are no longer up to it. Johnson appears to have lost his mojo, and permanently this time. Unless he can start swinging it back into the right hander, he is a shot duck. Our one in-form batsman at present is pushing 35. I suspect we will be very busy here adding names to List of Australia Test cricketers] (see, this comment is about improving the encyclopedia! :) ) I haven't seen a worse Australian team in the field - fair dinkum, they remind me of England circa 1991. Still, all credit to the Poms. They are batting well, and what Australia wouldn't give for an Anderson-type bowler. :( -- Mattinbgn (talk) 23:17, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't recall a previous Australian team with no good bowlers. Your best is Siddle, who would never be picked by England. Even though we have lost Broad, we can bring in Shahzad or Bresnan or Tremlett; and these are all better than Siddle. You have no one who compares with Anderson and Swann. Several Aussies I know have said that the 1981 team was your worst ever but that team did have a couple of good bowlers – their problems were poor attitude and lack of leadership. If England win the next Test and so retain the Ashes, I think Australia should implement a youth policy. Ponting has to go and I suppose Clarke will be the next captain. You cannot continue with Watson opening, but he should stay in the team as an all-rounder and bat at six instead of North. It looks as if you have lost Katich anyway so you need two promising young openers and another at three. Hussey and Haddin are good and you have to keep Siddle because there must be one experienced bowler; the rest have to be replaced by younger models. Besides Ponting, I would sack Johnson, North, Doherty, Harris and Bollinger. I can't see Australia seriously challenging England again before 2014–15.

What a shame.  :-) ----Jack | ^{talk page} 09:25, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

George Hirst

I was looking at this article with a view to sorting it out and realised the page was George Herbert Hirst rather than George Hirst. The latter is a redirect, and the content was moved to "George Herbert" in 2006. The reason given was that at Headingley, people confirmed that he was known as "George Herbert". I know quite a bit about the period and, yes he was known as George Herbert locally, but not by the wider public I don't think. It seems a little odd to me, and I think it would be better at George Hirst. What do other people think? --Sarastro1 (talk) 13:13, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

I agree. Seem to remember querying it at the time, but there was no consensus. Johnlp (talk) 13:43, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

The original thread is here. As a bit of context, Cricinfo, Wisden, his cricketer of the year profile, and cricketarchive all call him "George". However, a local profile calls him "George Herbert" and includes a foreword by his granddaughter. But even if he was known as George Herbert, I still believe he was more widely known as George and that is what we should go for. --Sarastro1 (talk) 14:34, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Agree. I think we should be global rather than local. Johnlp (talk) 15:29, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Agree, and have moved the page.Harrias ^talk 15:40, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Johnlp that we should be global instead of local. I think, being local myself, that "George Herbert" was a nickname of sorts but, since the discussion in 2006 (was it really that long ago?), we have established standards which are outlined in WP:CRIC#STYLE and include naming conventions. The more general sources that I have all refer to "George Hirst" unless they are being very polite, proper, introductory, whatever – and then they might say "George Herbert Hirst" in just the same way that some introduce another great all-rounder as "William Gilbert Grace". So, George Hirst for me. According to received wisdom, George Herbert was a very happy and jolly man, unlike the other great all-rounder from Kirkheaton who, reportedly, was decidedly grim. I do think the article needs to explain the local version, however. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 22:08, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

I've found a few bits which say that it was kind of an affectionate "nickname" rather than anything official. I'll stick it in the article at some point. --Sarastro1 (talk) 00:04, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Agree with all that's been said. I suspect that the "George Herbert" began as a bit of good-natured dressing-room ribbing, because it was unusual for a Yorkshire pro of the period to have a middle name, and then stuck. JH (talk page) 09:18, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Cricketer templates

Does anyone know what the purpose of the templates in the Cricketer templates category are for? -- WOSlinker (talk) 19:29, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

No, they appear to be pointless to me. Certainly I cannot imagine any use for such templates. They all appear to have been created by Aditya.krishnan.82 (talk · contribs) who may be able to shed more light on their purpose. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 19:43, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

This user seems to have created an article on 1979 Cricket World Cup squads using these templates as the raw material. Seems a very convoluted way of going about things. Johnlp (talk) 03:19, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

And more. They've been nominated for discussion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2010_December_5#Cricketer_templates. –Moondyne 04:46, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

More eyes on Mitchell Johnson

Hi everyone. The article on Mitchell Johnson (cricketer) seems to be attracting some attention from drive by editors. Would some of you mind watchlisting it please? Either that, or semi protecting (if possible) because some of the changes are not very helpful to say the least. Cheers. AustralianRupert (talk) 00:06, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

I have my eyes on it now. Probably not a semi-protection candidate just yet. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 00:16, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough, thanks. AustralianRupert (talk) 00:17, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

The same editor (different IPs) is continuing adding "information" to a number of articles, namely Phillip Hughes, Xavier Doherty and the Johnson article. I'm not going to revert at the moment because frankly I'm a bit over it, and also I want a second opinion from regular cricket editors. Is this vandalism, disruption or just an editor writing with "flair"? AustralianRupert (talk) 09:47, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

It's clearly vandalism. This is not a creative writing class. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 09:58, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi. I agree, the additions to Johnson are clearly vandalism, and Doherty probably also, but I'm not sure about the additions to Hughes. They are poorly constructed (the bare urls etc.), and shouldn't be in the lead, but is it vandalism? Not sure, really. AustralianRupert (talk) 10:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Aye, aye, captain --Shirt58 (talk) 10:08, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding the situation as I've not had much involvement with the cricket project so far. Cheers for your help, Mattinbgn and Shirt58. AustralianRupert (talk) 10:22, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hertford Cricket Club

Meets project notability, up for deletion. The article was created by a newbie who has been treated like crap, saving it would put certain users back in their place! AssociateAffiliate (talk) 21:52, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

International tour coverage

Although our coverage of international tours is quite broad, we are still missing a lot and even have the following redlink categories:

• Category:West Indian cricket tours of Bangladesh
• Category:Zimbabwean cricket tours of India
• Category:South African cricket tours of New Zealand
• Category:Zimbabwean cricket tours of New Zealand
• Category:New Zealand cricket tours of Pakistan
• Category:South African cricket tours of Pakistan
• Category:Sri Lankan cricket tours of South Africa
• Category:Bangladeshi cricket tours of West Indies
• Category:New Zealand cricket tours of West Indies
• Category:Australian cricket tours of Zimbabwe
• Category:English cricket tours of Zimbabwe
• Category:Pakistani cricket tours of Zimbabwe
• Category:South African cricket tours of Zimbabwe
• Category:Sri Lankan cricket tours of Zimbabwe

It would be good if we could at least create some useful stubs that would get these categories up and running. The ultimate goal has to be an article about every international tour. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 05:52, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Ashes-related article for Main Page?

We've a host of cricket FAs that haven't yet appeared on Main Page. I was thinking of nominating Paul Collingwood for the opening or closing day of one of the remaining Tests, (perhaps the last day of the final Test) but then thought I'd come here and see if someone had a better idea. There are bonus points for centenaries and the like - anything unused that directly connects to December 1910? Or possibly Dec 1960 (etc)? --Dweller (talk) 14:11, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Featured_articles_that_haven't_been_on_the_Main_Page#Sport_and_recreation --Dweller (talk) 14:20, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

It'd be great to get one of the YM's in there, given his troubles lately. Ian Meckiff was a central figure in the Tied Test which ended on December 14, 1960. –Moondyne 14:40, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Nice idea. Not aware YM has had troubles, thanks for the tip-off. --Dweller (talk) 14:51, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#YellowMonkey. –Moondyne 15:07, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

If I can be pardoned for pushing my own stuff, some suggestions:

• Hugh Trumble, like Peter Siddle, an Ashes hat-trick hero (twice!). The second hat-trick was after Trumble was convinced to make a come back to the Australian team, ending his retirement, after the Australian team lost the first Test in the series. (Warne?) He took his hat-trick in the fifth Test and played the key role in Australia winning the Test but sadly the Poms won the series and the Ashes 3-2.
• Harry Trott - He went mad ...
• Ian Johnson - With Ricky, the only Australian captain to lose two Ashes series. Ponting is about to go one better it seems. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 19:51, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

What do people think? Collingwood? Trumble? Trott? Johnson? Meckiff? Someone[thing] else? --Dweller (talk) 09:11, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Meckiff is good. Or Johnson. Johnlp (talk) 09:31, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Tempted to go for Meckiff, but feel it's a shame that there's no Test on the anniversary. Also, not sure if the anniversary is too much of a stretch to count for much at WP:TFAR. --Dweller (talk) 10:47, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

New suggestion: Bill O'Reilly (cricketer). The last day of the next Test match would have been his 105th birthday. And it might help cheer about YM (and all Aussies - in fact, it might spark a call for him to be recalled). Agreement? --Dweller (talk) 10:52, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Good choice. I am all for it. Probably will prompt another move discussion but ... -- Mattinbgn (talk) 10:57, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, good idea. Johnlp (talk) 12:09, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

OK. I'll take that as consensus and I'll do the nom. Thanks --Dweller (talk) 12:15, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Brace yourselves for another WP:RM. –Moondyne 12:46, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

On the subject of Ashes cricketers, Shane Warne's article is looking lame when compared to those of Bradman and O'Reilly. Needs some work!!! AssociateAffiliate (talk) 20:19, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Under-19 cricket template

I've created a template for Under-19 cricket teams as {{cr19}} so that articles on U-19 competitions can link directly to the U-19 team and not the main national cricket team. At some point I'll get round to changing this in key articles such as U-19 world cup etc. but if you come across a page where you notice it hasn't yet been done feel free to change it yourself! Waterhogboy (talk) 16:04, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Who is Michael Beer?

Michael Beer (redlink) has been included in the Australian squad for the third Test in Perth. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 05:25, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Stub started now, feel free to help expand. I don't think he has much chance of playing... the "home ground knowledge" doesn't really count for much when he's only played at the WACA 3 times, having just moved from Melbourne! If my initials were N.H. I'd be pretty annoyed at the moment.The-Pope (talk) 07:54, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Desperate much, Australia? S.G.^(GH) _ping! 09:16, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Very strange selection. If Johnson was so out of sorts then, why should he be OK now? Steve Smith can't be a part of a four man attack, can he? And Beer? Have the Aussies gone back in time and borrowed England's selection policy, c.1988? David Capel and Chris Cowdrey... clean your whites. --Dweller (talk) 09:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Regardless of the selection decision (I'm in waiting for football season mode already) I'll try to expand it over the weekend to become a DYK candidate... I think that a hook along the lines of "Did you know that... after losing the second Ashes Test, the Australian cricket selectors thought that more Beer would help them in the third test?" might work. Everyone has a tabloid sub-editor in them trying to escape. The-Pope (talk) 09:22, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

I like it. More accurate without the "more". --Dweller (talk) 09:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Given how they played in Adelaide I'm assuming that quite a lot of beer was involved there!The-Pope (talk) 09:52, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

So Australia have gone from Bollinger to Beer! -- Mattinbgn (talk) 10:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Wow, the Aussies are certainly drunk on plenty of beer to make this selection!!!! AssociateAffiliate (talk) 17:15, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

At the bottom of the barrel...—User:MDCollins (talk) 23:33, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Nominated for DYK.The-Pope (talk) 08:53, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

2012 Under-19 World Cup

A little something I've written on the 2012 Under-19 World Cup not really being held in Argentina and the perils of journalists using Wikipedia for research: http://www.cricketeurope4.net/DATABASE/ARTICLES3/articles/000052/005242.shtml Andrew nixon (talk) 15:17, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

I was wondering about this! I spent ages trying to find a reliable source on Argentina Under-19s supposed automatic participation in the 2012 World Cup when I created their team page. Unsurprisingly, I couldn't find one anywhere - now I understand why!! Thanks for clearing this up. Waterhogboy (talk) 23:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Edward Hornby

I have just created a stubby article on Edward Kenworthy Hornby (1839–1887), who was a Conservative MP from 1869 to 1874. However, the article on his brother A. N. Hornby says that he was also a cricketer.

I don't have any decent cricketing sources or expertise on cricket ... so once again may I ask whether anyone in this project would be kind enough to give the article some attention, and add a bit about his cricketing career? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:08, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Howzat? He played in a single first-class match so he qualifies for cricket coverage per WP:CRIN. He obviously wasn't a patch on his brother who captained England, rivalled WG and was a Lancashire legend: "O my Hornby and my Barlow". ----Jack | ^{talk page} 19:47, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! That's great. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:05, 15 December 2010 (UTC)