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[[User:Achbed|Achbed]] ([[User talk:Achbed|talk]]) 20:36, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
[[User:Achbed|Achbed]] ([[User talk:Achbed|talk]]) 20:36, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

== Title needs to be changed in order to maintain NPOV ==

The title must be changed from Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting to Sandy Hook Elementary School Killing or Attack. To keep it as a school shooting puts too much emphasis on the fact that firearms were used. [[User:Villano VII|Villano VII]] ([[User talk:Villano VII|talk]]) 20:38, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Revision as of 20:38, 14 December 2012

The shooting occurred three days following the Clackamas Town Center shooting in Oregon

This has no direct referenced connection to the Sandy Hook event and should not be included in the article. The Oregon shooting article is scheduled for deletion and is is of little significance.

66.116.62.178 (talk) 20:37, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]


lock article

can we get this article locked please. too much reported rumours are being listed without real facts being established — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.46.88.162 (talk) 19:21, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Number of dead

I don't think we should include any number of dead unsourced, especially when the facts are not yet clear. CNN is reporting "close to 20", which isn't 27. Against the current (talk) 18:17, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The number of people who are following the news and edit the article will secure that accurate numbers are added as more information is revealed. This has happened before... --MoRsE (talk) 18:27, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's irresponsible to include any number until there is a source. Against the current (talk) 19:19, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This article should not be speedily deleted for lack of asserted importance because...well, read the news! (your reason here) --MoRsE (talk) 18:21, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Perpetrator?

There is no source for who the perpetrator was. Should we just remove that until we get a source? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.68.250.2 (talk) 18:35, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The shooter's name has now been confirmed by CNN. And I think I've found his Facebook page. It has a few pictures of him. Hard to be 100% sure, but the name matches, as does the city where he lives (Hoboken) and of origin (Newtown). Not sure if it should be added to the article, or how to present it, so I'll just post it here. If anyone thinks it's relevant, feel free to add it in: http://www.facebook.com/rlanza. Also, a google search on his name + Newtown seems to indicate that he was a honor roll student at Newtown High School. Desdenova (talk)

Wait a few weeks before deleting or redirecting the article

Keep for now - Since this happened recently, article should be kept for two weeks to determine WP:Recentism. After this, it should be kept (or redirected to Sandy Hook Elementary School).--Jax 0677 (talk) 18:57, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep - I am in favor of keeping until after December 21, 2012. Then, if necessary (or if possible), start an article about wierd and/or sick mass shootings in the end of 2012. Geraldshields11 (talk) 19:35, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep - We already have articles for most or all of the U.S. school shootings that happened in the last few decades. There is no reason to think these facts will go away or their relevance to history will fade anytime soon. If, in 50 years, Wikipedians determine they don't care about the minutia of the early 21st century and this shooting doesn't spawn big changes in schools or school security, then sure, delete it, but until then, keep. -- ke4roh (talk) 19:41, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

map

Please add map of location. 155.201.35.58 (talk) 19:02, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Click on the coordinates and take your pick. 2010 SO16 (talk) 19:45, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Name

It should be something like "2012 Connecticut School Shooting." Coretheapple (talk) 19:04, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Why? Shouldn't we wait for more sources before discussing this? Feel free to create redirects as you see appropriate. - filelakeshoe 19:06, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
We know enough now to fix the title. I think that the name of the school is too specific as a name for the article. Someone searching for the article will have trouble finding it under that name. Another idea is to put "Newtown" in the title. Coretheapple (talk) 19:09, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I was going to say, if we go by the example of the Aurora shootings, "2012 Newtown school shooting" would be the best title, redirects from school name, "2012 Newtown shooting", "2012 Connecticut Shooting" and other variations. If its true there's a victim outside of the school, naming it by town is definitely more correct. --MASEM (t) 19:12, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Actually if we were going by the example of the Aurora shooting there were a lot of people saying we should have "Denver" instead of Aurora, but by the time more sources came out, people knew where Aurora was and why it was in the news. Of those mentioned above I think the title "2012 Newtown school shooting" would probably be best. - filelakeshoe 19:15, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
As the person who gave it its present title, I simply followed the convention at School shooting. There is near universal agreement on the titles there. Abductive (reasoning) 19:17, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I think that would work. ("2012 Newtown school shooting")Coretheapple (talk) 19:19, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Newtown is a township. Sandy Hook is the village. Please look at the School shooting page, nearly all the titles are in the form of (name of school) shooting. Abductive (reasoning) 19:28, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Towns are the primary political divisions in Connecticut. In the media coverage so far, "Newtown" and "Connecticut" have been far more commonly used; Sandy Hook not at all. Coretheapple (talk) 19:32, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This is too much concern over something unimportant. The narrative in the future will tell us what the best name for this event is. Right now, we need to worry about the specifics of the event itself, and can worry about renaming it later. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:45, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

agree, but an "also referred to as" would go along way for the Wikipedia search engine. Leitmotiv (talk) 19:53, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I came looking for the article on this subject, and it really was a little difficult to find. I had no idea of the school name. ike9898 (talk) 20:00, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Redirects work fine. We can just create a bunch more of those for navigation. "Aslo referred to as" gets dicier in terms of WP:V. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:01, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I had the same exact problem Ike9898. There are plenty of sources I've added for an "also known as" or "referred to as." All the news I hear and anecdotal comments are in the form of "connecticut school shooting."Leitmotiv (talk) 20:31, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Perpetrator

CNN says the shooter is named R--- L----. I'll wait to add this info in case it turns out to be incorrect. --MoRsE (talk) 19:16, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think that it can be reported as Ryan Lanza, based on this: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/14/school-shooting-connecticut/1769367/ Coretheapple (talk) 19:21, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

    • CNN just reported that the shooter was 24 years old and did cite a birth year. At some point it only seems resonable to create a page on the monster but for now perhaps it is best to collect the data on the talk page, to assure that the proper data is posted. --WPPilot 19:41, 14 December 2012 (UTC)(WPPilot)

Protect article

Almost certain it will be subject to vandalism. Thanks --Camilo Sánchez Talk to me 19:38, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Connecticut School Shooting

Here's refs to many articles that call it or refer to it as "connecticut school shooting:"

Leitmotiv (talk) 19:50, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

None of these use the title case capitalization you've been repeatedly inserting into the introduction. 2010 SO16 (talk) 20:05, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

None of the sources cited refer to the event as "the Connecticut School Shooting" with such capitalization. I've removed this from the introduction three times, and it's been re-inserted. I am no longer interested in removing it but I don't think it's a legitimate alternate name and suggest that others decide for themselves. 2010 SO16 (talk) 20:04, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

maybe it should just be uncapitalized, if that's your beef. Regardless, it is being referred to as such. Leitmotiv (talk) 20:10, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Usatoday ref

I keep trying to re add the completed usatoday ref Gary Stoller and Gary Strauss (14 December 2012). "26 reported killed in Newtown, Conn., school shooting". USA TODAY. Newtown, Conn. and each time I get an edit conflict.--Auric 20:01, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Also I have to keep re adding this: "|work=Business Insider|author=Abby Rogers}}" to the Business Insider ref, as it keeps being removed.--Auric 20:33, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"has been reported to be"

Please avoid needless words like this. As long as we're using reliable sources, there's no need to hedge our statements. Sancho 20:02, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

CNN now saying "closer to 30" dead, most kids

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school/ 2010 SO16 (talk) 20:17, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Closer to 30 than what? Sancho 20:20, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In context, this almost certainly refers to the early reports/headlines where "20" was the number being reported. Against the current (talk) 20:21, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

29 dead article

http://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Source-29-dead-including-22-children-in-Newtown-4118505.php has repeatedly been removed by someone claiming that it fails verification for the shooter father's school (Quinnipiac Univ.) which it does not. It says it clearly and the death toll has not been retracted. 2010 SO16 (talk) 20:25, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The article, although it has the title 29 dead, doesn't say that 29 are dead. Ryan Vesey 20:28, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It most certainly does, and that is what the Connecticut Post is reporting too. 2010 SO16 (talk) 20:34, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The number of children dead also doesn't match between the title and the actual article. Sancho 20:30, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Are we reading the same article? "NEWTOWN, CONN -- Twenty-nine people including 22 children were massacred in a horrific bloodbath at the Sandy Hook Elementary School Friday morning, a source with knowledge of the investigation tells Hearst Connecticut Newspapers...." 2010 SO16 (talk) 20:34, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The comment about Quinnipiac is treated as a possibility by every news source except for the one you linked. It is based on assumptions from the facebook page. Ryan Vesey 20:31, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do a Google News search. Plenty of mainstream sources are reporting it as unqualified fact. 2010 SO16 (talk) 20:34, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

AFP has published shooter's Facebook self-portrait

http://www.ctpost.com/news/crime/article/AP-source-Suspect-is-24-younger-brother-held-4118962.php 2010 SO16 (talk) 20:29, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And? That doesn't mean we can post it. Against the current (talk) 20:38, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

New shooter?

I'm watching someone on Fox saying that Ryan Lanza is in custody and that Adam Lanza was the shooter. The source also said the guns were registered to the mother. Keep an eye out for sources to confirm this. Ryan Vesey 20:35, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request on 14 December 2012 - Flag Status Reference

Add reference for flag status.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/12/14/presidential-proclamation-honoring-victims-shooting-newtown-connecticut?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl

Achbed (talk) 20:36, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Title needs to be changed in order to maintain NPOV

The title must be changed from Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting to Sandy Hook Elementary School Killing or Attack. To keep it as a school shooting puts too much emphasis on the fact that firearms were used. Villano VII (talk) 20:38, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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