Talk:Silver

Density

Please correct the density for silver and the temperature with the following info. Density at 20 deg C is 10.492 g/cm3. Reference David R. Smith and F. R. Fickett; Low-Temperature Properties of Silver [J. Res. Natl. Inst. Stand. Technol. 100, 119 (1995)] http://nvl.nist.gov/pub/nistpubs/jres/100/2/j12smi.pdf DLH (talk) 14:48, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, but this value is already in the infobox. Materialscientist (talk) 00:51, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

New Edit to Price Section (ref to Hunt Brothers)

{{editsemiprotected}} Under the 'Price' section there is the sentence:

'In 1980 the silver price rose to an all-time high of US$49.45 per troy ounce (T.O.) due to market manipulation[dubious – discuss].'

The manipulation by the Hunt Brothers is well documented. I suggest an edit to:

In 1980 the silver price rose to an all-time high of US$49.45 per troy ounce (T.O.) due to market manipulation by the Nelson Bunker Hunt. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tom.picking (talk • contribs)

• You'll need to provide us with a reference to a reliable source that directly says the price rose due to market manipulation by Hunt Bros. ⇦REDVƎRS⇨ 09:56, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

This would do: [1] --Stone (talk) 12:32, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

There was no market manipulation in 1980. Silver was up because dollar temporary lost its reserve currency status. There are 1.2 million tones of silver above ground. How could Hunt brothers corner it by buying only 3,000 tones of silver? Warren Buffet bought 200,000,000 ounces of silver in 1997(2 times more than Hunt brothers) but price of silver didn't change. Please remove reference to Hunt brothers manipulation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.53.147.141 (talk) 22:22, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

The Hunt brothers bought futures contracts above and beyond their physical purchases, this is called leverage, as the price rose the value of their contracts rose and they parlayed that into more contracts, until the exchange and the FED stepped in and forced the price back down. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.74.131.178 (talk) 06:23, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

History

please tell me more about:

- Argentina( country)- why it has this name? does it relate to Silver( in Latin language, Silver is "Argentum")?

- The same question with "Rio de la Plata"?

- why ancient scientist wrote Silver like a moon( symbol)? because of color of Silver? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver#History —Preceding unsigned comment added by Meocon quyet doan (talk • contribs) 10:34, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Also: what are some of the chemical properties of silver? I don't know how to find or tell what is chemical or physical. Thanks:) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.150.185.60 (talk) 18:04, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

- Oddly no mention is made of the Potosí mine in modern Bolivia. It was this mine that supplied the Spanish treasure fleets. Because prior to independence Bolivia and Peru were regarded as one territory, we have the slightly misleading assertion that it was Peru (not Bolivia)that has been a major source of silver since the 16th century. The fact that Wikipedia itself has several articles referring to places named after Potosí is indicative of the legendary vastness of the lode Everybody got to be somewhere! (talk) 15:25, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

- Incidentally much of Bolivia's silver was transported back to Europe via the Rio de la Plata Everybody got to be somewhere! (talk) 15:25, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

You will get better answers if you ask at the Wikipedia:Reference desk, but I'll provide a few relevant reading links here, for instructions on how to use Wikipedia to the best,

Users Augusta2 (aka "Everybody got to be somewhere") and Meocon quyet doan asks

Q: Argentina( country)- why it has this name? does it relate to Silver( in Latin language, Silver is "Argentum")?

See Argentina#Etymology and Name of Argentina

Q: The same question with "Rio de la Plata"?

See Rio de la Plata#Etymology

Q: why ancient scientist wrote Silver like a moon( symbol)? because of color of Silver? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver#History

I think nobody knows for sure, but I think that the old alchemy and astrology is responsible for connecting silver, the next most noble element, with the moon, the next brightest object in the sky, as gold was connected with the sun...

Q: Also: what are some of the chemical properties of silver? I don't know how to find or tell what is chemical or physical.

I propose Wikiversity School Chemistry, I couldn't find the counterparting School:Physics

Q: Thanks:)

...no reason, instead try the reference desk as mentioned...

Statement: Oddly no mention is made of the...

That is definitely worth noting, for mayhap future improvement of the article, thanks for that!

Statement: Incidentally much of Bolivia's silver was transported back to Europe via the Rio de la Plata

That is worth noting too. Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 19:36, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

- Missing history of silver in China. China's economy was based on silver even into the 20th century and partially protected the country form the Great Depression (why I don't know). How much silver circulated in China? Did it rival Roma during any dynasty? How much did China have during Han Dynasty when Roma existed? Did first banks in China start with silver? The noun bank is 银行 (silver shop). Much of American silver went to China, trade deficits, so much that this event help motive UK to sell opium in China to balance trade (even though opium was illegal in UK).

Silver as a conductor in cables for high quality audio

The silver article contains a mention of using silver for special high quality audio and power connector cables. This is pure quackery. I have tried to remove it twice but it has been immediately reinstated by Markvs88 without any reason or explanation, despite my invitation to discuss it here. At the very least such outrageously unscientific points of view should be introduced by words such as "some schools of thought believe ..." 90.214.249.180 (talk) 23:47, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree thoroughly. Silver is widely used in radio frequency applications where the skin effect really does make the higher conductivity marginally useful. The fact that the tarnish on silver is also a good conductor increases its attraction to RF designers for mating surfaces of connectors. The difference in conductivity between copper (16.78 nΩ·m) and silver (15.87 nΩ·m) is less than 6%. Audiophools can get exactly the same effect by increasing the size of conductors by that amount! RF engineers are constrained in the dimensions they can use by the nature of tuned circuits and so cannot do this. They therefore do use silver as a conductor. Audiophools discovered that the military used silver (plated) conductors in their 'cost no object' radio equipment and considered that this inevitably had a benefit for them. This is not the case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andy.Cowley (talk • contribs) 02:18, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I've reverted it twice. Your invitation to chat was actually a call to see if "I could get support" to keep in something you wanted to remove, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense -- by that logic you could delete about a third of the article (nevermind a whole lot of Wikipedia). I also don't find "rubbish" and "techno-babble" to be very descriptive. However, if you would explain why the points should be deleted, I'm open to read it. Best, Markvs88 (talk) 02:48, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Err. I was hoping you could say something factual about this application and spare my time from looking it up from scratch. Unfortunately I can't access the quoted ref, at least now. Materialscientist (talk) 02:58, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

There is a small group of manufacturers exploiting a niche market where they have convinced audio enthusiasts that copper wire is not good enough for connecting things together, and that silver is better. And of course their products aimed at this market are outrageously expensive, affordable only by those who have more money than sense. The power cable example illustrates the total absence of scientific reasoning behind this kind of product: why would using one meter of silver power cable between the wall socket and your amplifier make it sound different or better? The remaining 99.99% of the power delivery circuit back through the switchboard to the electricity utility's distribution system is made of copper! Wikipedia should not condone or permit any attempts by interested parties to promote (however discretely) these silver-based wiring products. 90.214.249.180 (talk) 12:57, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

While I understand your desire to right a percieved wrong/untruth (and your considerable knowledge in this field), Wikipedia isn't in search of truth, but wp:verifiability. Consider the line: "Some high-end audio hardware (DACs, preamplifiers, etc.) are fully silver-wired, which is believed to cause the least loss of quality in the signal." It's pretty neutral in tone. It doesn't state categorically that it does the job better nor that the addition of silver makes the sound necessarily better -- just that it is the least loss of signal quality. Is the delta in loss 10% or 0.0001%? I don't know, but the line says that some high-end products use silver. Can you cite either that there are no silver-using "high end audio hardware producers", or perhaps that silver does not have less signal loss than copper? Best, Markvs88 (talk) 14:52, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Wires used for supplying signals at low voltages don't cause any loss in signal quality, regardless of which metal they are made of. They might collect interference but that will be the same for all metals. Wires for supplying current to heavy loads such as loudspeakers should have the lowest resistance possible - silver wires have a resistance of about 6% less than copper ones of the same size, but cost 800 times as much. Not a very good engineering solution: a better idea would be to use 6% more copper, which will reduce the resistance to the value for the silver wires, and yet only cost 6% more! Based on resistivity of Ag = 1.59×10−8 Ω·m, Cu = 1.68×10−8 Ω·m, price of Ag = $25/troy oz, Cu = $8.50/kg, 1kg = 32 troy oz. I repeat: the marketing of silver wires is a ploy to extract cash from people with more money than sense. 90.214.249.180 (talk) 21:55, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Sure, but there are two separate issues here - (i) whether silver is needed there (most likely not, even for low-Ohm speakers) (ii) whether it is actually used there (for marketing purposes), like it or not. Materialscientist (talk) 22:55, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

90.214.249.180, you're debating cost vs. performance but you've just admitted that silver has a (minimally) lower resistance than copper. I can't see any reason for the removal of the point given its tone. If you like, I would support you adding (preferably with a citation) as to why this claim is spurious per your posting here, but not its removal as it is basically factual. Best, Markvs88 (talk) 23:53, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

PS: Just thought of the clincher argument ... bullets are made of lead, because bullets are supposed to be heavy, and lead is a dense metal. But gold is even denser, so why not make bullets out of gold? Reason: gold bullets are admittedly good, but too expensive; if you want heavier bullets, make bigger ones using lead! 90.214.249.180 (talk) 23:46, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Not relevant. Luxury items are not economical and do not require price reduction. Materialscientist (talk) 23:49, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Materialscientist here. That's a debate purely on price, not qualilty. (AFAIK gold bullets would only be significantly better on Cybermen. Best, Markvs88 (talk) 23:59, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Price

Silver is $36 today. Could someone update it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.149.99.237 (talk) 09:52, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Argentum root

In the article, which of the two following statements is correct? The Intro says Latin: argentum, from the Indo-European root *arg- for "grey" or "shining", while the History section says from the Indo-European root *arg- meaning "white" or "shining". I suspect grey is wrong, because grey doesn't shine, but I equally suspect silver isn't white! Does anyone know a printed source for the Indo-European root of *arg, to clear this up? Pete Hobbs (talk) 09:50, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Jewelry

Argentus - In the 1970s and 1980s Jostens made some class rings out of Argentus which they described as follows: "Jostens Argentus A new dawn in white precious for your college ring. A unique blend of silver and palladium, (not stainless steel) metals. Argentus is hard and durable and will retain its brightness and beauty for years to come." Wsteinborn (talk) 09:20, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Medical uses

There is already a section Medical which fully develops this topic. Why is it necessary to open a new section called Medical uses in Human exposure and consumption. Plantsurfer (talk) 08:22, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Silver notation as "AR"

There is a symbol for silver not mentioned in the article. "AR" is used to denote silver in numismatic circles. In these scenarios Ag is only really used when the coin is worn such that it is only worth the silver bullion value. I am not going to add this as it is frustratingly hard to reference (and from experience, unreferenced inclusions get deleted)! If you type AR coin into google though all the images are silver coins... but i can't find it written.  :/ 90.193.233.49 (talk) 11:10, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Even if proper sources were found documenting such, the terms are extraneous to the subject of silver, and best not included in this article. The most common standardized abbreviation and brief etymology is given and sufficient. The term "AR" as related to describing silver coins of antiquity is more related to the subjects of numismatics or coin grading or AR, et al. Ah, the last does have an entry for AR being "Argent, the heraldic tincture of silver". -- EsotericRogue Talk 09:12, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Electron configuration

My humblest apologies, but I could not find the appropriate place to put this question, but why is the noble gas abbreviation given as the electron configuration, and it doesn't look correct? Should it not be [Kr] 5s^2 4d^9? I'm currently teaching electron configuration and noble gas abbreviations to my students, and would love an explanation if I'm mistaken. 68.207.188.211 (talk) 02:33, 31 October 2012 (UTC)Wynni/Wynnifitz

The "usual" explanation is that half- and fully-filled orbitals are preferable in general, thus 5s2 4d9 is higher in energy than 5s1 4d10. This is similar to copper's electron configuration of 3d10 4s1. The usual counterexample is the electron configurations of Ni, Pd, Pt: [Ar]3d8 4s2, [Kr]4d10, [Xe]4f14 5d9 6s1.

I don't know the answer off the top of my head, but I believe spin orbit coupling and relativistic effects are invoked for the heavier metals. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 15:17, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

For Cu, Ag, and Au, the stability of a filled d-subshell gives them a ground state nd¹⁰(n+1)s¹ configuration, with nd⁹(n+1)s² being the first excited state. However, for Au, relativistic effects must be taken into account and the s electrons are also relativistically stabilized; this effect is even larger for Rg, where the 6d⁹7s² configuration is so stabilized that it becomes the ground state. (This can be seen in group 6 too: for Cr and Mo, the stability of a half-filled d-subshell appears to dominate, giving a nd⁵(n+1)s¹ configuration, but for W and Sg, where relativistic effects need to be taken into account, the stabilization of a filled s-subshell appears to dominate, giving a nd⁴(n+1)s² configuration.) Double sharp (talk) 08:27, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Medical uses of silver

We have an article on the Medical uses of silver that is referred to in the Silver article. I would like for this information to be the same for each page. The intro to the Med uses of silver is:

The medical uses of silver include its incorporation into wound dressings, and its use as an antibiotic coating in medical devices. While wound dressings containing silver sulfadiazine or silver nanomaterials may be used to treat external infections, there is little evidence to support their use. Silver is also used in some medical applications, such as urinary catheters and endotracheal breathing tubes, where there is tentative evidence that it is effective in reducing catheter-related urinary tract infections and ventilator-associated pneumonia respectively. The silver ion (Ag⁺
) is bioactive and in sufficient concentration readily kills bacteria in vitro. Silver and silver nanoparticles are used as an antimicrobial in a variety of industrial, healthcare and domestic applications.

Colloidal silver a (colloid consisting of silver particles suspended in liquid) and formulations containing silver salts have been marketed with claims of treating a variety of diseases. Colloidal silver was used by physicians in the early 20th century, but its use was largely discontinued in the 1940s following the development of safer and more effective modern antibiotics. Since the 1990s, colloidal silver has again been marketed as an alternative medicine, often with extensive "cure-all" claims. Colloidal silver products remain available in many countries as dietary supplements and homeopathic remedies, although they are not effective in treating any known condition and carry the risk of serious side effects such as argyria, allergic reactions, and interactions with prescription medications.

Would paraphrasing this lede slightly provide sufficient non-conflicting information for this article? Desoto10 (talk) 01:53, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Folklore

Large parts of this section seem to be copied directly from [this tvtropes article http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SilverHasMysticPowers] and are quite clearly written in the parlance of the site. The section has already been tagged as "citation needed", but it's also in dire need of some encyclopaedification. D4g0thur 02:34, 9 April 2013 (UTC)