Talk:Vladimir Lenin

Requested move 15 April 2014

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 11:47, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

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Vladimir Lenin → Lenin – Per WP:COMMONNAME. 76.105.96.92 (talk) 23:23, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• Oppose. We often refer to people by their last names only, yet we name their Wikipedia articles by the first name plus last name. Materialscientist (talk) 23:33, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose and Speedy Close per WP:SNOW and as non-serious proposal. No evidence that this topic is referred to as Lenin more commonly than as Vladimir Lenin in reliable sources has been provided, as would be if this were a serious proposal. --B2C 00:37, 16 April 2014 (UTC) {{small|added per WP:SNOW --B2C 16:06, 16 April 2014 (UTC))
• Oppose he is not a mononym singer. -- 65.94.77.36 (talk) 04:58, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose - not any more common than Vladimir Lenin. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 12:30, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose - Most relevant guideline here seems to Wikipedia:SINGLENAME "Using the last name as the page title for a person, when the first name is also known and used, is discouraged". NickCT (talk) 18:06, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose – I oppose moving this page per NickCT's reasoning. Dustin (talk) 01:18, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose - For all of the many reasons that have been stated above. Midnightblueowl (talk) 14:57, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

• I wouldn't go so far as to call this a "non-serious proposal." Conciseness is important, so if Lenin and Hitler redirect to Vladimir Lenin and Adolf Hitler, why not just move them there? Well, as NickCT points out, our naming conventions on people discourage it. And I think there's an important distinction to be made between names like Madonna, Suharto, or Plato and those like Lenin, Hitler, or Shakespeare. In the former case, the people are primarily known only by a mononym. Madonna's last name isn't well known or widely used; Plato and Suharto don't really even have other names. We're not just saying "Suharto" to refer to Suharto Jones, assuming you know who we mean. By contrast, Vladimir Lenin, Adolf Hitler, and William Shakespeare are all so well known that we can refer to them by one name as a form of shorthand. But it's also still plenty common to hear their full names.

This is straying off topic, but I wonder if in the future such historical figures will come to be known primarily by surname alone. There are Roman figures such as Claudius and Tiberius whose fuller names we know but don't often use. That might have more to do with how we refer to monarchs, or have something to do with ancient Roman anthroponymy, but I suspect part of it has to do with their historical importance. And I think that's happening to a certain degree with Shakespeare now. But I digress. To conclude, I might support this move in a few hundred years. --BDD (talk) 19:24, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Well said! I think I agree! Red Slash 23:58, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

"Altered photograph"

During Lenin's sickness (1922–23), Stalin used this altered photograph as his bona fides claim to leading the CPSU.

Why does the image caption on this page state that the image is "altered"? I can't find any reference to either it, or an original. Chaheel Riens (talk) 22:00, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Given Stalin's infamous use of airbrushing photographs (over half a century before photoshopping!), it's generally a safe assumption that photos supporting Stalin's glory were retouched. 07:10, 4 May 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.148.80.51 (talk)

Detailed proof is needed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.150.234.8 (talk) 16:13, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

This is a famously doctored photo, and there is one source noted in the file discussion page. It was mentioned, for instance, in a Guardian article on The fake photographs that predate Photoshop, which states "In a 1949 portrait, the Soviet leader Joseph Stalin is seen as a young man with Lenin. Stalin and Lenin were close friends, judging from this photograph. But it is doctored, of course. Two portraits have been sutured to sentimentalise Stalin's life and closeness to Lenin." RolandR (talk) 16:49, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Critical of Russians

"Lenin was privately critical of Russia, describing it as "one of the most benighted, medieval and shamefully backward of Asian countries".[225] He was similarly critical of the Russian people, informing Gorky that "An intelligent Russian is almost always a Jew or someone with Jewish blood", in other instances admitting that he knew little of Russia, having spent one half of his adult life abroad.[254]"

While I see the argument that Lenin was critical of Russian people and their intelligence, what else can be used in support of this view? Indeed, could this not also be used to advance the view that Lenin respected Jewish people for their intelligence? Perhaps, too, he was resentful of Jewish people for their intelligence? What is the broader context of what Lenin was saying here? --14.200.68.118 (talk) 14:29, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Neurosyphilis?

I've read somme comments about this, reportedly from scientists or forensic physicians in the last times of USSR, being dissapointed about the Revolutionary Leader's, their brains being destroyed by Syphilis, and also about V I Lenin being pushed by mates in his early youth to use the services of prostitutes, at least once. In the past century, and before Penicillin was discovered being curative for Treponema infections, the disease was sometimes referred to as: 'A disease contracted during his army service'. No info exists in the article about any army activity of V I Lenin. The region cited as 'Galicia', is southern to Russia, it has a long tradition of being inhabited by German-speaking people besides others, and has received also the names: 'Halitza', and 'Alicz'. More info about the supposed contagion of V I Lenin with Syphilis is needed. --Jgrosay (talk) 21:08, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

Lenin was Jewish (source, Lenin's Sister), and Stalin tried to cover it up

Lenin had Jewish roots. Especially interesting is that Stalin tried to keep this a secret.

Please add to the page.

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2077413,00.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.126.51.5 (talk) 06:36, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 September 2014

This article has a Hyperlink to the Poet Robert W. Service, who shares a name with one of Lenin's biographers, but is not the same person. Please remove this hyperlink.Graysunlight (talk) 19:27, 4 September 2014 (UTC)Graysunlight Graysunlight (talk) 19:27, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Corrected; thank you for pointing this out. If you register an account, you will be able to make such edits yourself. RolandR (talk) 00:25, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 05 September 2014

Vladimir Lenin → Lenin – You changed the infobox, so you should also change the title of the article. 71.59.58.63 (talk) 21:22, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

Discussion

Any additional comments: