User talk:Sundayclose

Southern American English: Precision vs Accuracy

In the Southern American English article, I edited

The statement "I gave y'all my truck payment last week," is more precise than "I gave you my truck payment last week."

to

The statement "I gave y'all my truck payment last week," is more accurate than "I gave you my truck payment last week."

You rolled it back saying "No, it's a distinction between one person and two or more people. That is precision, not accuracy. In standard English "you" is always accurate regardless of number."

But "y'all" in the sentence I edited is not more precise than "you", it is less precise. The original sentence's "y'all" is more accurate, because the sentence is referring to multiple people, and "y'all" is the term in Southern American English for multiple people, more accurate than is "you", which in that dialect means one person, not multiple people. That is why I changed "precise" to "accurate". DocRuby (talk) 18:53, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

No, you have it wrong. "Y'all" more precisely indicates whom the speaker is addressing compared to "you". "You" in standard English is unclear, thus less precise (it can refer to one person or several people). "Y'all" in Southern English adds that precision by indicating that the speaker is addressing more than one person. Thus, if a Southern English speaker wishes to be precise he/she will select "Y'all" or "you" to achieve a precision to indicate one person or more than one person. "You" in standard English is always accurate, whether speaking to one person or several people (i.e., it is perfectly grammatical in either case). But "you" in standard English does not have the precision that is available in Southern English ("you" vs. "y'all"). Thus, if I speak standard English, I am always accurate but sometimes imprecise. But if I speak Southern English, I can be more precise. Sundayclose (talk) 20:58, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

OK, I see what you mean. Thanks for dealing with it. DocRuby (talk) 23:33, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

I notice you are making good edits about psychology

Hi, Sundayclose,

I first noticed the discussion about editing Southern American English you had with another editor, and have since seen you make constructive edits on articles related to psychological testing. Would you like to join in as another editor (at least) and I slog through a massive revision of the Psychology article? I have been using Wikipedia Library online access and other library access I have to gather a large number of reliable sources for medical articles on topics related to psychology, and I think it would be helpful as I revise the article to have other editors looking on at what I'm doing. Keep up the good work; see you on the wiki. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk, how I edit) 17:34, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your kind words, and thanks for the great work you are doing. My time is very limited so I usually make very small edits. I will do whatever I can, small though that may be. I certainly will try to look at the article from time to time. Thanks for the invitation, and you keep up the superb work as well. All the best, Sundayclose (talk) 18:06, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Bad experience at Talk:Dreamcatcher_(novel)#Infobox

Hi: I want to apologize on behalf of the community for the problems created at Talk:Dreamcatcher_(novel)#Infobox. Occasionally someone with persistance and an unwillingness to compromise will camp out on an issue, and will be unusually persistent about something. His language about the change, morover, is very inappropriate. The page has since been reverted to the version you adocated for. We have a number of editors that don't understand how to give constructive criticism.... Please keep up the great work in the community and again many apologies! Sadads (talk) 12:48, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment. Of course, only one editor owes me an apology (which I will never get), but you are most kind for expressing your concerns. All the best. Sundayclose (talk) 13:22, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

FYI, I left a warning on that users talk page, hopefully they get the message. Sadads (talk) 14:56, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Blatty

I'm not trying to be uncooperative, but the souce doesn't specifically say that he identifies as a Catholic, just that he is criticizing Catholic University for its lack of Catholic identity. WP:BLPCAT is grossly violated, not just with Catholicism, but with almost every religion. I'm just trying to clean up the category. By the way, apparently the writer infobox doesn't have a religion parameter. If you find a suitable source, I think it's best if you just put a statement at the end of the "Early life" section stating that Blatty is Catholic. Thanks. Sundayclose (talk) 22:43, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

REPLY: He is criticizing Georgetown University for not being Catholic enough. Quis separabit? 22:45, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

And anyone can do that. I'm sure CU has alumni who are not Catholic. WP:BLPCAT specifically requires that the person unambiguously identify as Catholic. Sundayclose (talk) 22:47, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

• Washington, D.C. – Launched almost one year ago, the Canon Law petition of more than 2,000 Catholics represented by Academy Award winner William Peter Blatty, whose best-selling book and blockbuster film The Exorcist were situated at his alma mater Georgetown University, has received a formal response from the Holy See.Quis separabit? 22:48, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Great! That source is unequivocal. I have no problem if that source is used. Thanks! Sundayclose (talk) 22:50, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

OK, then. Quis separabit? 23:24, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Kelly Ayotte

How about any of these for Kelly Ayotte:

• http://the-american-catholic.com/2010/10/28/where-they-stand-senate/#more-25725
• http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/meet-the-catholics-in-congress
• http://cnsnews.com/news/article/catholic-democrats-help-defeat-senate-amendment-desgined-protect-religious-conscience
• https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/the-13-catholic-senators-who-voted-against-allowing-catholic-organizations
• http://nineteensixty-four.blogspot.com/2013/06/is-everyone-lining-up-to-challenge.html

Quis separabit? 23:24, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

The second one should work. I didn't look at the ones below that. Sundayclose (talk) 23:26, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Personality Tests

Thank you for your suggestion about including sources in my edits to personality test. I am curious how the the following claim I elaborated upon made it up in the first place, since it does not cite any source whatsoever: "Fundamentally, a personality test 'is expected' to demonstrate reliability and validity." Any direction you could provide would be appreciated. Cgdodd (talk) 16:11, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Pardon me for answering on Sundayclose's talk page, but a demonstration of reliability and validity is a standard requirement for any psychological test, and that statement can be found in any standard textbook on psychological testing. You can find citations of such textbooks in my psychology source list in Wikipedia user space, shared to you and to all Wikipedians for updating and improving articles. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk, how I edit) 17:06, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks to both Cgdodd and WeijiBaikeBianji. As to how the claim got in the article unsourced, Wikipedia is a work in progress. Uncited material gets in. That's why we highly paid editors monitor some articles (just kidding of course). Sundayclose (talk) 18:21, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

The Daley Family

Thanks for providing the source. It's a good thing Wikipedia has strict rules about biographies of living persons and specifically about religious identification (see WP:BLPCAT and particularly read the criteria for inclusion in a category). That's why William J. Murray, who became famous for being an atheist, cannot now be identified as an atheist on Wikipedia. Take a good look at Category:American Roman Catholics, or any religious category for that matter. At any given time about 10-30% of people in the category are not sourced as currently identifying as RC. It was close to 50% before a few editors started pruning it. Some were placed in the category simply because they had Italian or Hispanic last names. Sundayclose (talk) 18:31, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Thing is, I get the rules... But I also get that this is an apples/oranges issue: we're not talking about a relatively minor figure in this case -- William Murray while a footnote for a social issue in contemporary America, is by relative comparison nothing like the extremely visible mayor of America's third largest city (where the entire Daley Clan has historically been very publicly identified as part of the Catholic Church -- the Daley-Kennedy connection is an Irish Catholic political bond, and the Daley family -- like the Kennedys -- are widely known for being adynasty of Irish Catholic politicians ). Also, when you read the articles for the Daleys, there is ample evidence in the content of the articles to confirm their religious affiliation, and nothing stating they renounced the church and became atheists.Ryecatcher773 (talk) 18:47, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

I disagree that there was unequivocal evidence of their religious affiliation. I can attend a church, contribute to a church, and even believe in a church. But unless I state that I am Catholic (which I am by the way), don't put it in Wikipedia that I am a Catholic. I know a number of people who do all of those things but do not identify themselves as Catholic. As for major or minor figure, that's beside the point with BLPs. You may not see the need for more than "getting" the rules about BLPs, and I respect your opinion, but your opinion is not the same as everyone's opinion and that's why we have policies. Sundayclose (talk) 18:50, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

By the way, I don't disagree with your edit at Richard J. Daley. The documentation of his Catholicism is much clearer than in the other articles that I have challenged. Sundayclose (talk) 19:00, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

You're arguing to argue. If a member of the Daley Family renounced their Catholicism, it would be a major local news story and hence make it into the WP articles. John P is most certainly a practicing Catholic -- Nativity over on 37th is my girlfriend's church and I've seen him take communion there. I get the rules, I also get the overwhelming evidence in the body of the article, and nothing contradicts the infobox statement (e.g. renouncing their religion). The Daley family is a major name in Irish Catholic politics, locally and nationally. I've given citations. You can question someone's true faith all you like, but John P is a member of the congregation as well. Google it if you doubt me. I'm going to work now.Ryecatcher773 (talk) 19:09, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

No actually you are the one who is trying to provoke an argument. I never questioned anyone's faith. I simply asked for citations in adherence to WP:BLPCAT. This is my last comment on this issue, and I'll ask you to no longer comment on my talk page about it, including responding to this last comment from me. If you have a problem with my edits within policy, take it up at WT:BLP. Thank you for the citations. Sundayclose (talk) 19:15, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

adolf hitler health

i was trying to explain According Frederick Redlich an psychiatrist was found out that Hitler was also exhibiting symptoms of extreme paranoia(mental disorder) and was aware what he was doing — Preceding unsigned comment added by Krishnachaitan (talk • contribs) 15:33, 16 May 2015 (UTC) it is based on fact can you add the information with good grammar in that adolf hitler health section

Qualifications to be listed Anglo-Catholic

Hi Sundayclose,

If I am using Talk incorrectly I apologize, this is my first 'Talk'.

This is in reference to edits on this page: .

I am confused why we need more specific evidence to be listed as an Anglo-Catholic church than anyone else. We have a 'high' service, and we self-identify as Anglo-Catholic. More than 1/2 the listings are tagged as 'self-identifies as Anglo-Catholic', with no references whatsoever. If the criteria to be listed is specific evidence, why aren't all those churches with no links deleted as well? Put another way, why are we being singled out to provide evidence when no one else is held to that same standard?

Please advise.

Eastcoastjim (talk) 15:16, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment. It's not my intention to hold your church to a different standard, but I can only fight one battle at a time on Wikipedia. Eventually I will remove a lot of the churches listed as unsourced entirely and perhaps others as inadequately sourced, but in the mean time "other stuff exists" is not a good rationale to add to the inadequately sourced material. My initial goal is to prevent more from being added to the article, then later pare down what's already there. I acknowledge this is a matter of opinion because "Catholic tradition" in Anglicanism has a wide variety of meanings. If we include every Anglican parish that acknowledges their Catholic traditions, almost all would go in the list. To me that's not sufficient. What is Catholic tradition? Does it mean weekly private confession? Type of vestments? Public recitation of the rosary before every Mass? Excluding non-Catholic, non-Orthodox, non-Anglican people from communion? No ordination of women? Some Anglican parishes deny that they are Protestant entirely, claiming that the Anglican church was not part of the Protestant Reformation. I don't have a clear answer, but without the use of "Anglo-Catholic" in the church's self-description, it leaves the matter very open to interpretation. I encourage you to get more opinions on the article's talk page because I always respect consensus even if I disagree with it. This should be an issue for the larger community to address, not just you and me. Thanks! Sundayclose (talk) 18:12, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

If I understand you correctly, until we meet a specific definition that you agree with of exactly what being Anglo-Catholic is, no one can add any new churches to the list? The definition was already on Wikipedia and cited at the top of the page as "...people, beliefs and practices within Anglicanism which emphasise the Catholic heritage and identity of the various Anglican churches rather than their Reformed heritage." By that definition there is no good reason why we shouldn't be on that list. Being new to this, however, I will defer to your judgement. Just to be clear though, if that is the standard than I am allowed to go through the list and delete every church on it on the basis that does not have any reference, or one that does not have a reference that meets your criteria listed above? Please advise. Eastcoastjim (talk) 13:31, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Please understand: It is not me or any single editor who decides how to define "Anglo-Catholic"; that is why we are having a discussion. Again, let me encourage you to address these issues on the article's talk page so that the broader Wikipedia community can get involved if they wish. I appreciate your concerns as a newcomer, and I'm definitely not trying to be dictatorial. It might help if you read WP:CON and WP:BRD to learn how the consensus process works. I challenged something in the article as inadequately sourced. That's only the first step if there is disagreement. And, as I've said, I will always respect a clear consensus no matter how much I disagree. And to answer your question, yes you are quite entitled to remove unsourced entries, especially since there is a global "unsourced" tag at the top of the page that is well over one year old. In fact I encourage you to do so; that has been my intent also, I just haven't had the time to cull through the entries. But it's important to emphasize, that is not based on my standard; it is based on Wikipedia's requirements for reliable sourcing. If you find an entry that is sourced but with which you disagree, you may also remove that item, although it might become subject to discussion, as is the case between you and me right now. Thanks for your efforts here and for this discussion. Sundayclose (talk) 13:41, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Your edits in Lumosity

I don't understand why you keep reverting my edits... Re: "AGAIN, citation needed tags stay up for more than a few days. LEAVE IT and wait for someone to provide a source." What citation? What source? Have you read their website? The company name is Lumos Labs (not Lumosity), they are sponsoring neuroscience research but they are NOT "neuroscience research company". "Brain training company" is an oxymoron. Please explain why you are repeatedly correcting perfectly valid test based on facts from the company website.Wiki-shield (talk) 10:18, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

There is a big difference between a "citation needed" tag and a citation. Citation needed tags are placed to let other editors know that a citation is needed. Such tags are NOT removed within two days after placement, as you did; that is a policy violation because it removes legitimate tag. Wait a reasonable period of time for other editors to find the citation(s) and put them in the article. This is basic Wikipedia policy; if you disagree raise the issue at Template talk:Citation needed rather than arguing with me here. Thank you. Sundayclose (talk) 14:33, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

One more point: This is the first time you and I have crossed paths, and I respect the fact that you may be a relatively new editor who is not familiar with some policies, but I happened to notice your comments in other discussions. Let me strongly suggest that you tone down your personal attacks on other editors (and I'm not referring to myself). More than almost any other policy, that will get you a quick block from editing, as it should. Wikipedia is a collaborative effort, and ad hominen comments are very destructive. If you don't want to collaborate civilly, then perhaps you should find other venues to spend your time. Sundayclose (talk) 14:58, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. I didn't realize that adding request for citation "protects" incorrect information and the text marked with "citation needed" tag cannot be removed until some time passes. What is the reasonable period of time to wait until such text can be removed (obviously, if it is not substantiated by facts)?

Thanks for the warning, the problem is that for the past 3 months I politely explained my every step and reasoning to this "other editor" and spent hours on his talk page and on my talk page responding to his messages despite his repeat attacks and threats. Finally, he decided to put me on the admin noticeboard :( This obviously caused my "gloves off" reaction. Sadly enough, it looks like here in Wikipedia editing world quality and content supported by facts mean less than the number of contributions and status. I started editing Wikipedia after I noticed how much junk is there and I was horrified that millions of people read this and trust this information... Well, now after having my interactions with some of the editors and admins I am no longer surprised. I will tone down my rhetoric and try to learn the rules better, thanks for your advice again. Wiki-shield (talk) 15:50, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

There is no specific time period for a cn tag to stay up that is carved in stone; if there is difference of opinion or controversy (which is safe to say is the case with this article), I never remove a cn tag in less than a month, and then only after I raise the issue at the talk page. The only exception is biographies of living people; unsourced critical comments can be removed immediately. As for your personal attacks, there is NEVER a justification for personal attacks under any circumstances. There are other means for resolving content dispute; see WP:DR. I don't usually review another editor's edits unless I see a problem, and I saw it in your edits. You may not intend to do so, but you have presented a confrontational tone in many of your edits. I suggest not editing articles which have been a problem, including Lumosity, Cogmed, and Arrowsmith School, for a while until the dust settles; express your concerns on the articles' talk pages (without the attacks), and if you feel that other editors are making problem edits address that issue at the appropriate noticeboard. Your style so far has not helped your case for keeping your edits, not to mention your reputation as an editor. Please accept my comments as constructive criticism intended in the best in of Wikipedia and in your best interest. Sundayclose (talk) 16:35, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your recommendations, though I may disagree with your suggestion to stay away from the articles listed above - these articles were a mess and I tried my best to reflect the facts and to make sure that these articles are edited according to WP:NPOV principle. Agree, I may have been a bit too positive with Cogmed, though everything there were pure facts. Yet, Cogmed is one of the reasons I started editing: I work in a clinical setting that unfortunately doesn't offer Cogmed, but I evaluated few ADHD teens who took Cogmed training and they had amazing results. Two of them were able to go off meds... Then one of my patients told me that Wikipedia has poorly written, negative article on Cogmed and that's what triggered my actions. Unfortunately, my good faith efforts got lost in Wikipedia politics :(

As for your recommendation re WP:DR, I tried using the form but it gives me the error when I submit it (I already alerted another Steven Zhang about the issue). Have a nice weekend! Wiki-shield (talk) 18:14, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure what form you refer to, but no you haven't tried all of the processes outlined at WP:DR. And the problems are more than just "Wikipedia politics" though that may be part of it. It is possible to be too close to a topic, which is why I suggested that you disengage for a while. But it's always your choice to continue editing the same articles. I suggest reading WP:Edit war if you want to avoid a block from all editing. Sundayclose (talk) 18:41, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, this is very useful. Wiki-shield (talk) 18:55, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Ok, I'll find specific sources

On the articles on Fadi Chehadé, ill find precise sources and add them. I remember seeing a source that identified him as Catholic, but I can't remember where it was...--Quantum Particles (talk) 02:53, 10 June 2015 (UTC) On those two videos on ICANN wiki (look below the personal life section), he identifies as Coptic Catholic. Are videos unreliable, even though he identified as Catholic in them?--Quantum Particles (talk) 16:00, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

The video is reliable as far as I'm concerned but here is the problem that applies to both sources you have cited: Chehadé never identifies himself specifically as Catholic. He must identify himself as an adult as Catholic, not his parents when he was a child. Moreover, he doesn't even say his parents are Catholic. He says Coptic Christian. I'm not sure you understand that Coptic Christian can be Catholic or Orthodox. But most importantly, it is his current religious identification that is necessary, not his parents'. If I say that I was raised Catholic, that does not mean that I am currently Catholic. Again, I know you are editing in good faith, but WP:BLP holds editors to a much higher standard than most Wikipedia policies. Sundayclose (talk) 19:24, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Ok, I now know what you mean, after reading the BLP policy, and reading the controversies that led to it being so strict. I am sorry if I wasted anyone's time! I remember seeing a source on some news site that he "Identifies as a Coptic Catholic", but I think it was taken down... Oh well. Thanks for explaining it though!--Quantum Particles (talk) 19:51, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Diplomacy
	Great job resolving the Fadi dispute! Quantum Particles (talk) 19:56, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Southern American English: "I like to had"

I see that you have just undone your reversion of my minor edit on "I like to had. vs I lacked to have had". I'm glad you (un)did so, but your original stated reason for the reversion was wrong: I did not change the content at all, only the formatting. This was one of two places on the talk page where indentation had been made with spaces rather than colons, resulting in preformatted text which on small screens (e.g., my smartphone in the beta Mobile FrontEnd), instead of wrapping, ran off the edge of the screen. See that section as of just before my edits. (Please {{ping}} me to discuss.)--Thnidu (talk) 14:35, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

PS: I'm also adding

== References ==

{{Reflist}}

to the foot of the page; there are two references there with no header. --Thnidu (talk) 14:38, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

References

Sunday

You have a nice name, - I had a nice Sunday until I read the templated warnings you left on a friend's page. Louder than Words. Do you understand "This is correct.as tagged, it needs a citation, but not removal." Did you even see it? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:00, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for complimenting my name. I leave warnings when they are called for, so whoever your friend is deserved the warning. Sorry it bothered you. Have a good day. Sundayclose (talk) 21:02, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

What bothers me is not that he is my friend but that you seem not to understand that the request to cite a fact is an invitation to find a reference, not to remove the fact, as you did. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:08, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

I'm not going to argue with you, so if you can't accept my answer there's no need to reply. CN tags are placed after the fact when another editor previously put unsourced material into an article. CN tags are not to be placed by editors who want to add anything they wish to an article and are too lazy to find a reliable source. Otherwise anyone can add anything to an article simply by placing a CN tag; if I want to add a statement to Moon stating that "the moon is made of cheese", I can do so as long as I place a CN tag after it. If you disagree, don't reply here. Instead read WP:V ("Any material that needs a source but does not have one may be removed") and WP:BURDEN ("The burden to demonstrate verifiability lies with the editor who adds or restores material, and is satisfied by providing a citation to a reliable source that directly supports the contribution"). Now, I again am sorry if I caused you any distress by placing legitimate warning templates, but if you cannot accept my explanation please don't waste my time and yours by seeking a debate here. Thanks. Sundayclose (talk) 21:27, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

RfC of interest

Hello! This is to let you know that there is a current Request for Comment on a topic which you previously commented on. The RfC is at Talk:List of European cities by population. The question is, "In articles which rank European cities or countries in order by population or area, should the entire city or country be counted, or only the portion which is in Europe?" Your input there would be appreciated. MelanieN (talk) 15:37, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your feedback

Thank you for giving me those suggestions. This is a learning stretch for me. Are you a Wikipedia Content Expert? I was looking for one when my sentences disappeared. I was having issues trying to add my citation with the citation builder. I want to try to add the sentences again with the appropriate citation. Would you mind looking at it again to see if it is done correctly? I am working on it now, and should be finished in a few minutes. I have also added a note on the talk page for the Piaget article and a help me note on my talk page.M02000297 (talk) 21:50, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

As far as I see you did the citation correctly. Your comment on Piaget's talk page clarifies things. Since I now know that you will be working on this for a while as far as I'm concerned we can see how it turns out later and then I can make suggestions if necessary. BTW, some editors are quick to revert without checking the talk page (I've been guilty of that at times). As you make edits, you might occasionally mention your talk page comment so editors will know to check it before reverting. Sorry, I'm not a Wikipedia Content Expert. Good luck! Sundayclose (talk) 22:57, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks!M02000297 (talk) 23:32, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

A Dobos torte for you!

7&6=thirteen (☎) has given you a Dobos Torte to enjoy! Seven layers of fun because you deserve it. To give a Dobos Torte and spread the WikiLove, just place {{subst:Dobos Torte}} on someone else's talkpage, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend.

7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:17, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Reply

I didn't say "artress" I said and what I met to say "actress" I misspelled the word by mistake. FrozenFan2 (talk) 23:27, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Minor edits problem

Hi, since you see a problem sufficiently big to block me, can you please point out which of my edits shouldn't be marked minor. My understanding is that when adding to information or changing information in an article it's not marked minor. If it's syntax or turning a list say, into prose, or putting an unbroken article into sections or giving it wiki layout etc, including picking up typos, missing words, fixing or making links, they're all minor edits. Has something changed that means I am required to negotiate every change on the talk page. There isn't much evidence for this in general... Or are you an editor in the habit of biting the unwary, with only two notices. Either way I need a simple guide, thanks. Manytexts (talk) 23:45, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

PS if it's about changing worded numbers into digits I understand either is acceptable & I change them occasionally because the former slows my reading pace.

I just checked Tim the Yowie Man & didn't realise that I marked minor when I obviously added material. Sorry about that. Can you show me what else I've miss-marked? thanks Manytexts (talk) 00:05, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

It would help a lot if you would go to just a little trouble and read WP:MINOR thoroughly, taking special notice of the statement "If you are in doubt about whether an edit is minor or not, it is always safer not to mark it as minor." An overarching issue should be: if there is even a slight possibility someone might challenge your edit, don't mark it as minor. Adding (or removing) a reference citation, as you did here, is not a minor edit. Note that you also changed content, including a section header, even though it was just a few words. Someone might wish to challenge your selection of a citation; that's not minor. Someone might not agree with the section header you selected. Someone might not think your example in that edit accurately represents the concept. This is just one edit with several items that are not minor. There are others. Let me suggest that you not mark any edit as minor unless you correct spelling, grammar, or formatting. As you gain more experience, you might aquire a better grasp of what is minor, but right now you tend to think edits that change or add content are minor; and such edits are almost never minor. Again, if in doubt, don't mark it as minor. Sundayclose (talk) 02:42, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks that helps a lot. I get it now & I like having the default to not checking off minor. Manytexts (talk) 07:09, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Hello

Before you block me from editing wikipedia why don't you show me the reliable source that says Kath Soucie was born in Cleveland, Ohio because most sources point to her place of birth being New York City. Wikiman103 talk 14:46, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Do you bother to check sources already cited in an article before changing the article? Do you read edit summaries, specifically this one? Let me try to make this as simple as I can: Go to Kath Soucie#Career. Find citation number 2 immediately after the sentence "Soucie was born in Cleveland, Ohio". Click on that citation, which will take you down to the References section. Click the link to the Hischak source in #2. Read. I hope that's simple enough. Sundayclose (talk) 19:16, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for pointing that out, and it seems like the source that says she was born in Cleveland is legit especially it being in a book, but however a another good source know as imdb.com says she was born in New York City, and she couldn't have been born in both places, so one of the sources has to be false information. Wikiman103 talk 14:51, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

IMDb is not a reliable source. See WP:RS/IMDB. Sundayclose (talk) 20:12, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

Ok, but to be honest Wikipedia isn't always a reliable source either. Wikiman103 talk 17:15, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not claim to be a reliable source because there is no professional editorial control, which is why IMDb is not reliable. See WP:Academic use and Reliability of Wikipedia. But it's comprehensive and free. Sundayclose (talk) 00:04, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

14th Dalai Lama, your deletion of my earlier post as "unreliable"

Hi there Sundayclose, thanks for your attention to this article but I do feel obliged to question your deletion of my post as 'unsourced' or 'unreliably sourced'. The citation I have given for my post is perfectly reliable. The book I cite, of which I have a copy to hand, is published by Rider/Renguin Random House group and co-authored by the well-known Tibetan statesman Gyalo Thondup who is also the elder brother and political mentor of the 14th Dalai Lama and Anne F. Thurston who is editor/co-author of the worldwide bestseller The Private Life of Chairman Mao and author of Enemies of the People and several other specialist reference books on China. How more reliable can get be than that, and on what basis can you presume to delete the entire book details from the bibliography? The post I inserted uses the exact words of the authors but not verbatim. As such, can you please kindly show cause how this citation from such an impeccable source is, in your opinion, unreliable. In case I inappropriately used the brief book citation template, and you don't like that, I have changed it to use the formal detailed book citation template and included a full quotation of the relevant passage, hopefully to dispel any further doubts in your mind, and I trust this does the trick. If I have done something else wrong, that I still don't understand, please let me know what, exactly, and I will try to correct it. Many thanks indeed, MacPraughan (talk) 22:20, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Actually if you read my edit summary, it says "inadequately sourced" because you simply gave an author, date, and page number. If it had remained with that citation, the information could not be verified. But I see that you have now provided a complete citation, so there is no problem. Thanks for your contributions. Sundayclose (talk) 22:24, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Actually, what you wrote in your message to me, your message to which I was responding, was (and I quote)"you made a change to an article, 14th Dalai Lama, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed..."

I also beg to differ, in that the information could have easily been verified by referring to the cited age in the book listed alphabetically in the Bibliography identified by the authors' names, with date and page number where the information was given; at least, it could until you just deleted the book from the Bibliography as 'inadequately sourced'!

Had you looked at the details of the book which I had entered under "Bibliography", instead of just deleting it as unreliable without actually checking, perhaps you would not have been so hasty to condemn my post as 'unreliable' - or 'inadequately sourced' for that matter. You would have seen that Gyalo Thondup was an eyewitness to the event related, which he had described in his book in his own words. What is more reliable and more adequate? Anyway, I am glad that you now concede that the post was both reliably and adequately sourced, so yes, there is no problem. Thank you for your interest.MacPraughan (talk) 10:39, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

If I offended you by leaving a standard template that is widely used on Wikipedia I apologize. If you think I somehow violated Wikipedia norms your next step should be to address the matter at WP:ANI. Now, we are finished discussing this issue. Thank you again for your contributions. Please don't message me about this matter again, including a response to this message, and I will do the same after I notify you about my response. Thank you. Sundayclose (talk) 13:29, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Fixing my own credits

Seeing as how people rely on Wikipedia for its perceived accuracy, I've taken it upon myself to correct inaccuracies in my own Wikipedia page since, arguably, I'd know my own credits better than anyone. For example, no matter how much someone insists I had an uncredited role in "Wreck-It Ralph," the fact remains I never received a paycheck from that film because I wasn't in it. If I can't fix such blatant errors, who can? Doesn't accuracy trump perceived conflict of interest? I'm not adding anthing new, I'm removing things that never were.Itsamike (talk) 20:10, 17 August 2015 (UTC)--Mike Pollock, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Pollock

Thanks for your comments. I see your point. Maybe I jumped the gun in leaving you the COI template; if so I apologize. As long as you don't add anything unsourced or try to slant the article toward an unjustified point of view, then you're not violating policy, including the one about COI. COI is a pet peeve of mine. A few years ago Amy Fisher tried making massive and unsubstantiated changes to her article. That doesn't appear to be your agenda. But it doesn't just happen with celebrities. There's a lot of COI added to Wikipedia by people with an interest in promoting their business or products. Anyway, thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. BTW, I left yet another warning for the latest culprit on your article, anon 73.29.184.78. A problem with anon IPs, unlike registered users, is that their warnings become "stale" so administrators are hesitant to block them. If this one continues let me know and I'll take it to WP:ANI to get a block if I can. By the way, you may already know about the WP:3RR rule; don't revert on the same article more than three times in 24 hours, even if you're correcting an error. That could get you a block, but message me and I'll help out if I can. Sundayclose (talk) 21:25, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Understood. My main objective is to fix a couple of persistent mis-credits that follow me all over the Internet. They end up propagating to the IMDb and various series-related Wikis with everyone crediting Wikipedia as a source. Beyond that I'm more than happy to let Wikipedia users have their way with the page (within reason of course, like the Anon IP you mentioned). And I hadn't known about WP:3RR, but I do now and I'll use appropriate restraint in the future. Thanks. Itsamike (talk) 21:45, 17 August 2015 (UTC) My page is apparently being vandalized. "Charizard X" isn't a thing. The vandal is goofing on "Sonic X" in the previous row. Note the parallel character name structure. Thanks. Itsamike (talk) 17:33, 28 September 2015 (UTC) Same goes for "Charizard Boom." Not a thing. Itsamike (talk) 17:54, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

It looks like someone else fixed and warned the user. If it persists let me know. Sundayclose (talk) 23:14, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Inline external links

Sundayclose, What is your objection to 'inline external links' in MagicChef for example?

It's not my objection. It is contrary to Wikipedia's manual of style. See WP:CITE for correct citing of sources. And to make matters worse, your link to CNA International doesn't confirm the statement you made in the article. Sundayclose (talk) 22:21, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

John Cena - Editorial

Sundayclose, While in retrospect I can agree with it not being a minor edit, but the editorial I took out was and is just that. It is someone's opinion that really has nothing to do with the surrounding text. "I know how John Cena feuds tend to work. He loses one match, then wins the next two or three. Look at Rusev and Bray Wyatt as examples. These feuds don't really help talent." How much more opinion do you get? Why not just write John Cena indiscriminately buries talent? It has absolutely no value in a biographical encyclopedia entry ThaRock1976 (talk) 20:52, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

The quotation is an opinion. Many quotations on Wikipedia are opinions. But they are not necessarily an opinion of a Wikipedia editor. And it isn't necessarily my opinion. I didn't restore the quotation because I have some vested interest in portraying Cena one way or the other; I really don't have an opinion about him. I could argue that your desire to remove the quotation is POV, but I'm not. I'm simply stating that the quotation is relevant to the article. If an editor had simply inserted an unsourced comment about Cena's feuds, that would be unsourced POV. But it is a sourced quotation, and it does in fact relate to the text of the article. The article discusses numerous feuds. This is a content dispute. There are no Wikipedia policies involved. Get consensus on the article's talk page before removing the quotation again. Thanks. Sundayclose (talk) 21:44, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Marilyn Monroe

Hello. Why did you revert ? You mentionned "Unsourced". Look at Meanings of minor planet names: 3501–4000. Regards.--Io Herodotus (talk) 22:06, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

You wikilinked List of minor planets/3001–4000, which only names the asteroid; it does not explain the origin of the name. That's why I reverted. But I clicked the link provided above and discovered that almost the entire article is unsourced. So then I clicked 3768 Monroe, only to discover that it redirects to List of minor planets/3001–4000. We clearly have a problem with WP:CIRCULAR and WP:V. But I restored your edit. I hope you will change the wikilink to the better article that mentions her name. I don't doubt your good faith, but frankly I was appalled at such poor sourcing. Sundayclose (talk) 01:19, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

OK I changed it.--Io Herodotus (talk) 15:17, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Iron Maiden – Killers

Hi,

I just visited Killers album's article and checked the revisions. Your last revision caught my attention. The person was right an you were wrong for undoing his edit. It is indeed stated Live at the Marquee, London 4 July 1980 on the releases of the single. Proofs that it's true – 1, 2 and 3 (image called Booklet). I'm going to undo your edit and please try to do some research before undoing edits.

Citations to sources belong in the article, not edit summaries. See WP:CITE. And please read policies before undoing edits. Sundayclose (talk) 16:07, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

I see you didn't even bother to look at sources which are there for a long time. It is clearly STATED in those sources where all those live tracks were recorded. – Sabbatino (talk) 16:59, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

I see you didn't even bother to read my reply above or click the links to read policy. So until you do, here's another message: Stay off of my talk page, including a reply to this message. And if you have thoughts of not honoring that request, here's another policy: WP:Harassment#User space harassment; one more message here and you'll be blocked from editing. If you have any doubt about who is responsible for appropriate citations, read WP:BURDEN. If you have issues with the article in question, address them on the article's talk page. Sundayclose (talk) 17:15, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Tertiary source

Dr. Carrier characterizes the sources in the proposal as showing that the methodology is "proven to be logically invalid across the board". See page 21 of "On the Historicity of Jesus".VictoriaGrayson^Talk 02:38, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

AIV report

The user has over 13,000 edits since late 2011, and a clean block log. That alone should tell you AIV is not the right place, unless the account has been compromised — MusikAnimal ^talk 21:09, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

OK, so after I rack up 13,000 edits (without a single edit summary or attempt to discuss removal of appropriate content), and after dozens of warnings from numerous editors, I can then remove anything from any article that I wish with impunity. Sorry, that's bull. Don't get me wrong; I think the vast majority of admins do an admirable job with a thankless job, but sometimes a few go out of their way to protect vandals. No need to respond here at this time, but please keep any eye on MisterMorton's edits and see if anything changes. When it doesn't, I'll accept your acknowledgement that you made an error in judgment (albeit in good faith, still an error in judgment). Sundayclose (talk) 22:24, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

I agree with MusikAnimal that the case is too complicated to have been appropriate for AIV. That doesn't mean he can get away scot-free – it means it requires more careful review in a more appropriate venue. AIV is for obvious cases that can be quickly handled. I considered this one more carefully than I would for a typical vandal. — Capt'n Earwig ^{arr! / talk} 18:43, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Edit to Jerry Lee Lewis

Please don't make me bring up basic policies of verifiability in response to this. There's been enough genre warring at that article. If there ever was a consensus at this article, then it should have been based in sources that would support those genre. Please cite them instead of restoring more unsourced material to an article littered with it. Dan56 (talk) 14:00, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Pot calling the kettle black. No one has genre warred any more than you have: [1], [2]. And from the looks of your block log you seem to have a habit of edit warring in general. Discussion of the issue of genres is perfectly OK. But I don't care to waste any more of my time on your hypocrisy of pointing out policies to others that you yourself have violated in the same article and accusing others of the very same behavior that you have displayed. If you have other issues with Jerry Lee Lewis take it up on the article's talk page. Don't message me here again. Sundayclose (talk) 20:07, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Untitled

Hi sunday! THank you for taking the time to review my edits. The 10 key issue areas are listed in the about section of the one billion acts of peace campaign, I don't understand how they aren't in the source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wroeththo (talk • contribs) 17:18, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

First of all, new messages go at the bottom of a talk page, not under the first section header. Secondly, you took quite a few liberties in wording the 10 issues, so much so that I question their accuracy. Thirdly, there are two citations to the information about the Nobel Prize nomination: one has almost no identifying information; the other one doesn't confirm what you wrote. Fourthly, don't put citations at the end of headings; put them at the end of a sentence or at the end of a section. Before you edit Wikipedia any more, please thoroughly read: WP:V, WP:RS, WP:CITE.

Hi again, can I ask what the issues were with that last edit? The sources all included something about the 1baop campaign. You asked for more info on the Nobel Peace Prize nomination and I found a copy of the nomination letter by Desmond Tutu - this is about as accurate of a source as a person can get isn't it? You said that the ten issues areas didn't match the source, so I found multiple sources that the issues areas all match up with. Now if you'd like a larger variety of sources like books, then say so, maybe remove the questionable sources, but I don't think that these edits are justified by removing encyclopedic wording that there are lots of sources for. Everything you asked for in the first post was done by the second post. I thank you for your edits and I don't like arguing, I'm confused as to how doing what you asked for the first time results in even more edits.

Kind Regards -Wroeththo— Preceding unsigned comment added by Wroeththo (talk • contribs) 04:50, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

GTS Popoff investigation

Hello Sundayclose,
You reverted my recent additions to Michael Marshall (skeptic), Peter Popoff and Good Thinking Society because they were 'poorly written' in your view. I'm not a native English speaker as you can see on my profile, so it's quite possible I'll make mistakes on occasion. Reverting my entire edits (including other unrelated previous edits) seems a bit unwarranted though, but ok. I asked two of my native English speaking friends for advice, and they were able to spot two grammatical errors that I've now corrected. I hope this will satisfy you, and if not, please (indicate how you would) rephrase it yourself, and if you like please explain why, so I can learn from it. Thanks in advance! Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:57, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Leonard Cohen

Hello Sundayclose,
I am unsure how I am supposed to give references to my additions. I state, correctly, that the band the Sisters of Mercy is based on a song of the same name. I also point out the names of their Albums that are lyrics from leonrd cohen songs, this is something that anyoan check put hasn't necessarily been published in an article so where would the references come from? regards mycocktaildress — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mycocktaildress (talk • contribs) 12:28, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Formal mediation has been requested

The Mediation Committee has received a request for formal mediation of the dispute relating to "Assassination of Abraham Lincoln". As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. Mediation is a voluntary process which resolves a dispute over article content by facilitation, consensus-building, and compromise among the involved editors. After reviewing the request page, the formal mediation policy, and the guide to formal mediation, please indicate in the "party agreement" section whether you agree to participate. Because requests must be responded to by the Mediation Committee within seven days, please respond to the request by 10 October 2015.

Discussion relating to the mediation request is welcome at the case talk page. Thank you.
Message delivered by MediationBot (talk) on behalf of the Mediation Committee. 23:08, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Request for mediation rejected

The request for formal mediation concerning Assassination of Abraham Lincoln, to which you were listed as a party, has been declined. To read an explanation by the Mediation Committee for the rejection of this request, see the mediation request page, which will be deleted by an administrator after a reasonable time. Please direct questions relating to this request to the Chairman of the Committee, or to the mailing list. For more information on forms of dispute resolution, other than formal mediation, that are available, see Wikipedia:Dispute resolution.

For the Mediation Committee, TransporterMan (TALK) 21:56, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
(Delivered by MediationBot, on behalf of the Mediation Committee.)

Hardness of hearing

"Hard of hearing" is an adjective, not a noun. Compare "deaf" and "deafness." "Hardness of hearing" is correct. You wouldn't say "I am afflicted with 'hard of hearing.'" 73.172.99.131 (talk) 23:49, 15 October 2015 (UTC)