Talk:Twice

Member list

Hi Random86, I noticed your recent edits and wanted to talk about them a little bit. I've seen your past discussions about the member table issue, and I'm not here to re-argue all of that. But I did want to propose a compromise on this particular band. If it was a smaller group I wouldn't blink an eye at it, but since there are so many members from different countries in this group, I think that keeping a member table would be helpful to organize the information. Part of the goal of Wikipedia is to present relevant information in the best way possible. Tables exist in order to present information in a simple, easily accessible way (it's the entire point behind Microsoft Excel).

Based on past discussions, I can understand wanting to remove birthdays and members' names in multiple languages. I like that kind of information (well, birth dates anyway) personally, but I can see the point you all are making. I do think that the stage names, birth names (since many use different names in this group), and nationalities are relevant to this particular group, however. With so many members, keeping all of this info in a list edges on being a wall of bulleted text, so I've inserted an alternative table that only presents the info I mentioned above as simply as possible. Take a look and see if we can agree to this. We can talk about tweaking if you still have a problem with it. TerryAlex has had some interesting insights about formatting in the past and was involved in past discussions about members tables, so I wouldn't mind having their input as well. Thanks! Katzenlibrary (talk) 19:05, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 January 2016

Kikriz27 (talk) 08:44, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not requested a change.
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 08:48, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 January 2016

Kikriz27 (talk) 03:30, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. /wiae /tlk 04:32, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 January 2016

• KOR: 49,904+
• JPN: 8,697+

Kikriz27 (talk) 03:34, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. --allthefoxes ^(Talk) 22:56, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 January 2016

• KOR: 688,078+

Cumulative Sales for "Like OOH-AHH":

• "Gaon Download Chart October 18-24, 2015 (see #15)". Gaon Music Chart. Korea Music Content Industry Association. Retrieved 29 October 2015.
• "Gaon Download Chart October 25-31, 2015 (see #15)". Gaon Music Chart. Korea Music Content Industry Association. Retrieved 5 November 2015.
• "Gaon Download Chart November 1-7, 2015 (see #17)". Gaon Music Chart. Korea Music Content Industry Association. Retrieved 12 November 2015.
• "Gaon Download Chart November 8-14, 2015 (see #14)". Gaon Music Chart. Korea Music Content Industry Association. Retrieved 23 November 2015.
• "Gaon Download Chart November 15-21, 2015 (see #15)". Gaon Music Chart. Korea Music Content Industry Association. Retrieved 30 November 2015.
• "Gaon Download Chart November 22-28, 2015 (see #21)". Gaon Music Chart. Korea Music Content Industry Association. Retrieved 7 December 2015.
• "Gaon Download Chart November 29-December 5, 2015 (see #35)". Gaon Music Chart. Korea Music Content Industry Association. Retrieved 10 December 2015.
• "Gaon Download Chart December 6-12, 2015 (see #34)". Gaon Music Chart. Korea Music Content Industry Association. Retrieved 17 December 2015.
• "Gaon Download Chart December 13-19, 2015 (see #31)". Gaon Music Chart. Korea Music Content Industry Association. Retrieved 4 January 2016.
• "Gaon Download Chart December 20-26, 2015 (see #27)". Gaon Music Chart. Korea Music Content Industry Association. Retrieved 4 January 2016.
• "Gaon Download Chart December 27, 2015 - January 2, 2016 (see #17)". Gaon Music Chart. Korea Music Content Industry Association. Retrieved 7 January 2016.
• "Gaon Download Chart January 3-9, 2016 (see #9)". Gaon Music Chart. Korea Music Content Industry Association. Retrieved 14 January 2016.
• "Gaon Download Chart January 10-16, 2016 (see #9)". Gaon Music Chart. Korea Music Content Industry Association. Retrieved 21 January 2016.

Kikriz27 (talk) 03:38, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. --allthefoxes ^(Talk) 22:56, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Unreliable sources

Allkpop and soompi are considered to be gossip blogs and not news sites. This is because both sites have statements on them saying they are not responsible for whether or not the information they publish is true. This of course makes them bad references and unusable for citation on Wikipedia. Peachywink (talk) 19:44, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

- This talk page appears to be broken in some way so if you want to reply to this section you have to edit the section above and quick signature option will not work.

Passing by and  Fixed. The reason it broke was because the <ref></ref> tag was not properly closed in his/her edit request. Hopefully I had correctly replaced the signatures w/ timestamp... −Edward (^t⋇_c) 13:26, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Suggest merge with Twice (band).

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a

Merge Proposal and / or Redirect. Please do not modify it.
The result of the request for the Proposed Merger of Myoui Mina into the Twice (band) article was: Consensus Reached–Awaiting Merge per Wikipedia NotabilityGuidelines.
Proposer @Katzenlibrary: or other interested party should proceed with the merge.

— — — — —

• Support. I propose that Myoui Mina be merged with Twice (band). There is not enough notability for Mina on her own to warrant a separate page. Her background can instead me summarized in a sentence or so on the Twice page. Katzenlibrary (talk) 15:25, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose. Twice is a fast growing K-pop band and have had a lot of controversy lately. To have track on each members I propose to have different sites for all of them. There are singers with not enough notability, but as Twice is a rookie group and fast growing, I propose to keep Myoui Mina - page. PSherzad (talk) 16:00, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Even groups that have been popular for years don't have pages for each member. What about Mina makes her notable enough to warrant her own page?Katzenlibrary (talk) 15:30, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Twice is a fast growing band overall, and she is one of the members gaining fame. Making a wiki page for her gives the fans more information about her. I don't see why not having a wiki page for her alone? Tell me the problem, and I will rethink my statement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PSherzad (talk • contribs) 17:23, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

The biggest issue is that she doesn't meet notability guidelines: WP:N. She is only notable as a member of Twice and her contributions to the band are fully covered in the Twice article. As much as I'd love for each of the members to have their own articles, they haven't done anything yet to warrant them having their own page (except for Tzuyu due to the flag scandal). Even more successful bands do not have pages for each member unless that member has done something note-worthy on their own (acting career, solo debut, etc.), and Mina hasn't.Katzenlibrary (talk) 22:19, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

I see, and thanks for pointing out why she can't have a page for herself. However, may I ask why this girl may have a page for herself then?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuka_Nakamoto — Preceding unsigned comment added by PSherzad (talk • contribs) 10:34, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

I don't really work on j-pop pages, but looking at her article I think I can see why she has her own page. Before becoming a member of Babymetal, she was a member of two other girl groups, one of which was marketed as the little sister group of Perfume. She also has a voice acting credit. Her notability falls outside of just her Babymetal activities, so I can see why she'd be warranted a separate page. As for Mina, like I said I hope that she will have a separate page one day, but for now there is no need for it.Katzenlibrary (talk) 23:29, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Hello, this time someone helped with filling this page. I hope you respect the decision of ours to keep this page running. I think other people also find it helpful knowing her better. Twice doesn't mention Mina's life before and after becoming a trainee for JYPE. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PSherzad (talk • contribs) 23:42, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

I don't think a consensus to keep or merge the page has been reached yet...Katzenlibrary (talk) 23:45, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

• Support merge. Mina is not yet independently notable outside of Twice. Random86 (talk) 01:48, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose. Twice is a fast growing girl group in South Korea . Every member should have a wiki page for the fans to know them better. Mina is one of the famous members of the group. Twice wiki article doesn't state Mina's ballet training years, her dad being a famous alumnus in a university in Osaka, and became a professor orthopedics at the university hospital, 11 years of training in ballet and being the member who has the shortest training period, which is only 1 year. I got that in a Korean article. Since not all the international fans know hot to read Korean, I propose to keep Myoui Mina - page so that the international fans will know her better. Kimberly020995 (talk) 12:19, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

• Support She needs more individual activities like dramas, films and a solo career to be notable. Rockysmile11^(talk) 06:01, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

• Strong support Mina is not yet independently notable outside of Twice. -- Kanghuitari (talk) 08:34, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose : If Mina has notable achievements, she is entitled to have her own page. No harm for not letting her have it.Zxcblavjax (talk) 15:50, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

I agree, however the question is if she has notable achievements outside of Twice, which she doesn't. Katzenlibrary (talk) 17:03, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose : She's a Japanese member of a high profile group, it will only be a matter of time when she'll need her own page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimeous (talk • contribs) 23:12, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

• Support : I think it's too early. Mina has not yet done individual activities. She's always doing activities with the other members. Even Nayeon has more pre-debut and current work than her. And it's a little weird that she has her own page while the other 7 members don't have their own. Accireioj (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:06, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

It's not weird that she has her own page. She is quite famous thanks to twice, and it is better to keep this page as in matter of time the other 7-8 members will also get their own page.— Preceding unsigned comment added by PSherzad (talk • contribs)

• Support : Mina does not have enough individual recognition. I support merging Myoui Mina with Twice (band) and suggest having separate paragraphs for each member and their beginnings i.e. how they got into JYP, early life etc., like Red Velvet's page. Once they start getting more popular and have more solo activities, then separate pages can be made. Tzuhyo (talk) 06:04, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

The group is already famous, and to even think that hey got 10 CF deals 1 month after they debuted is shocking. I think it is better to keep this page as they are rising in fame excessively. I don't see any problem with keeping this page anyways, as it doesn't waste anything. Myoui Mina having her own page like Tzuyu is a great achievement for both the fans and herself.— Preceding unsigned comment added by PSherzad (talk • contribs)

• Strong Support She has absolutely no solo work and zero notable activities/ events outside of her group. We do not predict the future fame of people on this site. All her information can be put in a members section on the main page same as other groups do. Peachywink (talk) 19:51, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
• Support Other people who have done more individual activities than her, like for example, acted in shows, released their own songs, do not even have pages because they still don't meet the requirements or they're just included in the group's page if they're a member. It's all about what she's done outside of Twice, and there aren't any except for appearances on random shows and music vids. She might become notable enough to deserve a page in the future but not at the moment. Lonedirewolf 21:33, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

I just edited the members' section Lonedirewolf 01:56, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

I think this is an excellent solution to the issue at hand. It offers background and highlights individual members until their careers reach a status that would warrant an individual page. I would suggest we use these edits as a compromise for the merger of Myoui Mina's page. Katzenlibrary (talk) 22:06, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

— — — — —
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a WP:PM.

Please do not modify it.
Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

GenQuest ^{"Talk to Me"} 21:00, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

A copy of this template can be found here.

Suggest merge with Twice (band).

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was to merge Im Nayeon with Twice (band) per Wikipedia Notability Guidelines. Katzenlibrary (talk) 19:27, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

---

• Support: Pages for other Twice members have already been called into question for not meeting Wikipedia's notability guidelines (see WP:N and WP:ENTERTAINER), and it appears that Nayeon also fails to meet the requirements. In discussions of other members' notability, she is often used as a reference (i.e., the argument that "even Nayeon" who has had more activities doesn't have her own page), which may make her appear to be a standard of notability. However, her current career does not meet the requirements to warrant a separate page on Wikipedia, though she comes arguably closer than her band mates. While she edges on notability, her individual Wikipedia article is likely a case of WP:TOOSOON. I would suggest merging this article with Twice (band) for now with a redirect as a place holder until her career is further developed. Katzenlibrary (talk) 17:55, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
• Support merge. Nayeon is not yet independently notable. She is likely to be independently notable in the future, but it's currently WP:TOOSOON. As a side note, none of the oppose arguments on Talk:Myoui Mina have any validity so far. Random86 (talk) 00:30, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
• Support Merge. Nayeons handful of individual pre-debut CFs are not enough to make her notable on her own. Even if she is super cute.Peachywink (talk) 05:28, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
• Support. Not individually notable. Drmies (talk) 02:29, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Suggest merge with Twice (band).

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was to merge Momo Hirai with Twice (band) per Wikipedia:Notability. TheInfernoX (talk) 15:39, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

---

• Support: I propose that Momo Hirai be merged with Twice (band). Momo does not have enough notability on her own to warrant a separate page. This information in this article is already sufficiently summarized in her section on the Twice article. Katzenlibrary (talk) 00:25, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
• Support: No outside solo work or notability aside from her group. Definitely doesn't meet the criteria for , or need, her own page. Peachywink (talk) 07:56, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
  • Support. Not individually notable. Drmies (talk) 02:29, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
• Support. Not individually notable. Asdklf; (talk) 03:56, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
• Support. Momo is not individually notable. Random86 (talk) 02:33, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
• Support. As of now, Momo is not individually notable. No solo work yet other than from her group. TheInfernoX (talk) 03:27, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Disputed material

NayeonBunny has twice reverted Drmies' removal of this material. I've reinstated the removal. Please discuss why any of this should be replaced in the article, given that we are not a fan site and the group's site presumably has all this information. Yngvadottir (talk) 12:22, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

• Thank you, Yngvadottir. The problem of course is that the material is indeed not encyclopedic and lacks proper verification. The moment we started listing all such TV and other media appearances, we are truly nothing more than a fan site--or, more likely, a mirror of the company web site. Drmies (talk) 15:03, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

I have added some of this information, but I can see the point Drmies is making. I propose this compromise: to only include appearances that are notable. For example: the appearances on Sixteen and the multiple Twice TV series are notable because the formed the band and because they are reality shows based around the group, respectively. In fact, those appearances should absolutely be included in the filmography since they are shows where the members were the main cast. I would also suggest including appearances on notable television shows such as Weekly Idol or where members were a contestant of some sort such as King of Masked Singer, but removing appearances where only one or two members appeared. As for the lack of verification, many of those appearances should have sources that either I or Accireioj added. I can also collect sources for appearances we choose to leave in. The issue is more IP addition of appearances that slip by us as we add sources. Thoughts? Katzenlibrary (talk) 16:11, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm with you on the shows that formed the band--but isn't that already in the article text? The source requirement is also to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff, but we discussed this already. So sources--good sources. I hope you understand that I'm also a little pissed at a brandnew account coming out of nowhere calling me a "hoe", which is silly cause I'm like totally not a ho. Drmies (talk) 17:48, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Wow! I didn't see where that happened. Was it in the edit summaries? That is COMPLETELY unacceptable no matter what. As for the discussion at hand, I must admit, I was surprised you removed the content all over again after we had already discussed how the section might be conducted. I felt kind of betrayed by it since I thought we had an understanding. But we can work it out now with input from other editors as well! Katzenlibrary (talk) 17:05, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Agree with the removal of this material. If it's not noteworthy enough to merit a mention in the text, then why include it at all? Also, details of individual Sixteen shows are already documented at the page Sixteen (TV series) - that's where that information belongs, if anywhere. We don't appear to have any information on Twice TV, but again that information would belong in a text section, first and foremost. Cmeiqnj (talk) 18:29, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

I disagree. Many articles for other celebrities, Korean or not, do not discuss all of the elements of a filmography in the text of the article and when they do it does not mean the content is removed from the filmography section. Furthermore, TwiceTV is mentioned in the article text at the end of the Pre-debut section. All that is missing is a mention of TwiceTV2 and TwiceTV3. Katzenlibrary (talk) 17:05, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

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"girl group" or "band"

I'm not going to request a move because after some research it seems like "band" is also common in referring to these groups. But should the parenthetical disambiguator be "band" or "girl band/group" etc.--Prisencolin (talk) 23:50, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Activities before debut

Filmography and videography should not feature appearances before the group’s debut (i.e. when they appeared when they were still trainees) since this is an article for the group. Mentioning them in the individuals’ sections looks fine, and when each of the members eventually get their own articles those entries would be justified in official filmo/video table. However they certainly were not representing Twice before 2015. I would also like to point to F(x) (band)#Pre-debut as a good example. Also pages such as Beast and EXID do not include solo works of Lee Gi-kwang or Solji before they joined the group. I will come back after some days to do the edit. IdentityCrisis (talk) 16:23, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

• I edited it. Some relevant discussion is above regarding the whole of filmo/video section, but including activities even before the group was in existence is a whole different area and I believe the removal is justified and in line with the "precedents" on Wikipedia. IdentityCrisis (talk) 01:26, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

Reality/Variety shows

I know this was already discussed before, but I would like to bring it up again. Twice is a very active group so they're on TV for, let's say at least once a week. The group has 9 members so they also have a lot of individual gigs. Imagine in 3 years, if they are still promoting actively, the whole page will be filled with the Reality/Variety shows section.

So I suggest to only include their shows as a full group, and the members' regular shows (like Dahyun's appearance on Real Men: Female Special and Weekly Idol as a host and Jeongyeon as regular host of Inkigayo). We can also include Momo on Hit the Stage since she was one of the pioneer members and even attended the press conference for the show. We can later make a Reality/Variety shows section for their individual gigs on their individual page. That's all. Hoping for some feedback. Thank you! Accireioj (talk) 05:10, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Merger proposal

I propose that Momo Hirai be merged into Twice (band). Like what happened earlier this year, I think Momo is STILL not individually notable. Her current individual page is already summarized on the group's page. Accireioj (talk) 14:23, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

• Support: Not notable and will stay not-notable in the near future as she obviously wont have a solo musical releases since she cant sing at all, she would need to became an actress in drama to became individually notable 86.58.36.145 (talk) 17:43, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

• Support: Wait until she has notable solo activities before creating the page.
• Comment: Also, some user is keep recreating Sana and Mina articles, those should be deleted as well 86.58.36.145 (talk) 18:46, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
• Support: I entirely agree, I have been editing both the Momo Hirai and Mina Myoui articles solely for means of keeping them as useful sources, but in my opinion they are not at all needed especially since neither of the two (and also Sana's article which is constantly off and on) have done nothing notable unlike fellow band member Chou Tzu-yu. The articles themselves are just acting as extension's which is completely uneeded at this moment in time. Abdotorg (talk) 19:41, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
• Support: Support per nom. Article for the group already summarize her individual life. No need to have her own article until she does something notable. Bagas Chrisara (talk) 10:25, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
• Support She still hasn't reached the point yet where she has enough individual activities that a separate page is needed.Peachywink (talk) 14:57, 14 November 2016 (UTC)