Talk:Moors

Problematic adds to list of Moors

Several of the people listed as "Moors" never identified (or were identified as such) during their own lives. Per wikipedia policy, we should not decide for them. I have removed Abd'l Rahman I (who identified himself as a member of the Umayyad dynasty from Syria; in other words, he was an Arab by self-proclamation) and the historian al-Qutiyya (who self-identified, as anyone with minimal knowledge would be aware from his name, as an Islamicized and Arabized _Goth_ ). Please stop doing OR and reverting to false identities. Duedemagistris (talk) 18:24, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Cite policy, please. As far as I know the policies surrounding self-identification come into play on BLP, not articles about long-dead historical figures. Pinkbeast (talk) 01:47, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

I just want to add I don't care about your new message. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.32.138 (talk) 09:55, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

nice quote here on Moors " I hate to be the bearer of bad news because we know folks love to argue but debating terms that were irrelevant back then is also irrelevant right now.. let's stick to the facts !! Their skin color was brown skin and originated from a land located within the continent of Africa ..What's the real question?" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.59.74 (talk) 14:42, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Usual interminable discussion as to whether the Moors were black

[I have boldly moved this to its own heading to prevent it junking up the rest of the talk page.] Pinkbeast (talk) 02:11, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

don't move it wiki racist! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.59.74 (talk) 13:57, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

the real truth wiki does not want to show about the Moors being black! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmZm4PRhfNg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.32.138 (talk) 14:59, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

So this afrocentrist youtube channel is your reference ? --Aṭlas (talk) 17:17, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

your eurocentric and eurocentric shalors have has caused more harm to black people. Eurcentics have lied more often in the past let me know when you want exmples. I would like for you answer why you have removed my links. Also, why did you remove other people comments on the matter? What gives you the right to remove what they have said the only thing you're proving that your racist and bias,It was the white that goes around and says that black people have no history. In america they have killed black based on skin color how much more history— Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.32.138 (talk) 13:03, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Eurocentrism — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.32.138 (talk) 13:31, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

So where is your references for this Black moors ? --Aṭlas (talk) 19:27, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Please don't ask, we get walls of text from fringe sites, etc. Doug Weller talk 19:33, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Ok --Aṭlas (talk) 20:01, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

So why did you remove my comments a links? why did you remove my youtube link with a what as your reasoning

Why did you remove my links/ I thought you were an educated scholar? I wonder did you look at those links? One link is from googling it self. Yea the Moorish coats of arms with so many black people heads why is that? why did you remove my link with a catholic priest talking about saint benedict the moor who was black?

I didn't. I moved them under their own subheading on this talk page because they were not pertinent to the heading you put them under. Earlier discussion has been removed by ClueBot, a bot that removes discussion when it seems to have come to an end. It does so without regard to the content. Pinkbeast (talk) 16:47, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

I have added tons of links on the subject of Moors here and I have asked questions you so called scholars failed to answer. But you're too racist to under stand that. There are links I would have loved to post here could fill this entire page sources why because of this subject I research a lot and don't get paid for it. White people and Arabs who have destroyed black people lives and history with the Muslim slave trade and transatlantic slave want to me and afro-centric? White people and Arabs have a history of black racism. To back up my comment I will add these links here as proof to back up what I say is true and your have no credibility with your comments towards me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4Bz9Cl4zgI&t=0s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vhx5OHfekk&t=0s

The famous Arab philosopher Ibn Khaldun, expressed racist attitudes toward black Africans: “The only people who accept slavery are the Negroes, owing to their low degree of humanity and their proximity to the animal stage,” Khaldun wrote. Another Arab writer, of the 14th Century, asked: “Is there anything more vile than black slaves, of less good and more evil than they?”

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/06/201362472519107286.html

Doctor John clerk about how white people told black people we have no history! White people who invented the lie called the bell curve so they can kill and blame black people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DPr0JRn0KQ

Just to prove That I could fill this page about Moors I want to add this link here where I have filled the youtube comment proving how black the moors were. At Christmas time when you're with your family, I am busy researching and learning about the Moors. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_Xnc8ijkrA&list=PLqIKEFH3xg-5wdq9X2awaeSUXNHqtO9dE&index=1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.32.138 (talk) 14:59, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Is that all you could do ? youtube links ? afrocentrist youtube channels ? You've disappointed me.--Aṭlas (talk) 16:25, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

First, your previous posts were not removed; they were archived (see links at the top of this page). Second, rather than fill the page with links that are not of use here, please review the policy on reliable sources. YouTube videos, editorials, and "google itself" do not qualify. It would also help if you would learn to sign your posts (add four '~' marks after your comments) so that we can tell when one comment ends and another starts. You could also make a coherent argument, rather than simply railing at people for being racist for not watching the videos you link and crafting the argument for you. Laszlo Panaflex (talk) 16:42, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

I have removed the IPs last posts, this is not a place to call ethnic groups racist. If there are academic sources discussing racism and the Moors, ok, but nothing else. Doug Weller talk 17:25, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

who are you to tell me what isn't and who isn't racist! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.32.138 (talk) 18:21, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

Besides being a very experienced editor, I'm an Administrator and an elected member of the Arbitration Committee. But I'm not telling you who is or who is not racist, I'm telling you not to use Wikipedia to attack an ethnic group as racist. Doug Weller talk 18:56, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

well, I'm calling you out for mod abuse and my experience on wiki has been nothing but abusive. I also notice on a lot of black people subject wiki has been accused of racial bais so I am not the only one.

I have another question are you making fun of my grammer skill? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.32.138 (talk) 18:25, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

What exactly have I said to make you think that? Doug Weller talk 18:56, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

However, if they were "threaten off of wiki" (sic) because they "don't agree with wiki on moors!" (sic) they should report this in more detail, so the threats can be dealt with. Pinkbeast (talk) 17:51, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

I was mistreated on wiki since the very first day proof the proof is found in the wiki archives notice my questions and then crossed out comments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Moors/Archive_2 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.32.138 (talk) 18:32, 31 October 2016 (UTC) I was threatened off of wiki the first time and I was threaten off of wiki again.

The crossed off comments have nothing to do with you. That was a sockpuppet of a blocked editor, who we blocked when we discovered him and struck out his comments, which is routine. Doug Weller talk 19:11, 31 October 2016 (UTC)No but what that person said to me when I was asking those questions were indirectly offensive to wards black people and very racial. I also want to say that there isn't enough black moorish pictures on the subject. If it wasn't for me wiki would still been telling people Moors were white people and moors means white people. I also was made fun of because of grammar!

It was me that asked the tough questions and got wiki to put black images of moors. If it wasn't for me wiki would not have put them there. One more think Jesus wouldn't have been white either Torah is based on Black African fairy tales. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.32.138 (talk) 19:26, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xrzFVNVFmu4/USEirDBJDJI/AAAAAAAAqmU/HnQqIA5qkLE/s1600/ausetherutomaryjesus.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.32.138 (talk) 19:43, 31 October 2016 (UTC) I have seen tons of european images of black moors where are they talked about and where are they found on wiki? you people call your self scholars and can barley answer my questions? The very word moor means black and was frist used by the romans! The Moors predate Islam and show me where arabs call them self a moor please! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.32.138 (talk) 19:46, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

And more attacks - this time on Jews. Don't believe everything you see on the web. The use of words changes but in any case the Latin word for black is 'niger', which is where the word nigger came from. Again you've been misinformed. The article doesn't say that any group called themselves Moors, read it again. The term we are discussing was mainly used during the Middle Ages, not before Islam. Doug Weller talk

how this an attack on jews please Torah take place in Africa Egypt is Africa! what is a the UV ray chart for that kind of environment? Egypt is a hot country that means you're going to need pigmentation to survive there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.32.138 (talk) 20:01, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

According to the torha the sons of ham ruled africa and the middle east or what was once the horn of afria http://kukis.org/Doctrines/genealogies/land-of-ham-and-shem-map1.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.32.138 (talk) 20:06, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

I would like you to show me proof of the exdous for me plase as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.32.138 (talk) 20:10, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTyMpuTL8Ow — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.32.138 (talk) 20:14, 31 October 2016 (UTC) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5JnnWvgRjg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEpSoaj8hfQ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.32.138 (talk) 20:18, 31 October 2016 (UTC) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0s2n6CQno4 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.32.138 (talk) 20:20, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

don't think the Exodus was real I do think the Torah is Jewish, and true or not calling it a fairytale ale looks like insulting zjrpews. But I give up now. That web site is fringe nonsense and useless, far from anything we'd use as a source. And you will find plenty of groups that e We don't call black living in those temperatures all over the world. If you search for images of Berbers wow will find complexions and hair color can be light or dark. But your link to the Kuki site proves we are wasting our time with you. Doug Weller talk 20:21, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

I have another question for you have you ever seen Zeitgeist ducumentary on jesus? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.32.138 (talk) 20:30, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

explain these links here for me please, in fact explain all the links I just gave https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G6D8itOfBs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGqrcp-NsLM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1CWBKRWIg0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhKGPslPwwA

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.32.138 (talk) 20:26, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

My grammer is bad but you so called shalors failed to answer my questions why? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.32.138 (talk) 20:36, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

No, this is not a webforum where you can debate the Moors, the Torah, etc. No one should be answering your questions. If you bring sources that can be considered reliable by WP:RS someone might be willing to discuss whether they can be used here (presuming they discuss the Moors), but you aren't doing that. Doug Weller talk 21:25, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

Your grammar is not bad, but your spelling is abominable. "(sic)" indicates not that I am making fun of you but that the spelling errors in text I quote were yours: ie, that I am taking the time to quote you accurately.

I do recommend you read Doug's observation that the struck-through comments were by a banned user and that they are struck through because that user is banned. You appear on the face of it to be having a go at us because of the actions of someone who was rightly banned from using Wikipedia.

This is particularly vexing because I have done my best when editing the page to resist the (apparently nationalistically motivated) idea that the Moors were entirely comprised of relatively light-skinned Arabs. Some of the images of which you say you "asked the tought questions and got wki to put black images of moors" (sic) are on this page because I have argued against their removal. Pinkbeast (talk) 23:34, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

You know who isn't credible wiki is not credible. How about stop writing and giving people the wrong false information about anything regarding black people or any thing coming out of African! Why because wiki has very racist and bais point of view. Also, black people have a long history of people destroying, distorting and creating myths on black history . Black people have dedicated hate groups.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwpO-nnFY9g Black people have a very long history of genocide and crimes against humanity done to them. Even white Jewish people have words like Cushi to describe black people and have played a role in the slave trade.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cushi http://forward.com/culture/art/310222/jewish-slavery-caribbean-exhibition/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cushi http://forward.com/culture/art/310222/jewish-slavery-caribbean-exhibition/ I am want to so say I am of Caribbean decent. I will add that there have been consistent complaints on black subjects on the wiki about having bais points of view and even racist points of view on the wiki. I passionately research these kinds of topic very day. I hang out with historians online and forums that debate Moors, Ancient Hebrews, Hannibal, the slave trade, Tuskegee air men, The Muslim slave trade, or any subject that might have black people in them. I can hold my own with any so-called historian. let me remind you people here were racist towards me and failed to answer my basic questions. If you failed to answer my basic questions what gives you the right to call your self an expert and teach people history? You also have no business making fun of my grammar you don't know my history. There are words for people making fun of other people online over their weakness it's called harassment and online bullying which are internet crimes. Clearly, the wiki mod likes cause harassment.

I am looking at the wiki page and have watched wiki slowly remove any traces of Moors being black! Let me remind wiki again what Moor means.

here is one source quote " Moor (n.) "North African, Berber," late 14c., from Old French More, from Medieval Latin Morus, from Latin Maurus "inhabitant of Mauritania" (northwest Africa, a region now corresponding to northern Algeria and Morocco), from Greek Mauros, perhaps a native name, or else cognate with mauros

"black" (but this adjective only appears in late Greek and may as well 

be from the people's name as the reverse). Being a dark people in relation to Europeans, their name in the Middle Ages was a synonym for "Negro;" later (16c.-17c.) used indiscriminately of Muslims (Persians, Arabs, etc.) but especially those in India."http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=moorNow if you did your research you would have learned that Moors predate islam and the word moor was ues directly towwards black people living in Africa. Black people who were the first people to live on the planet. The Romans and greeks wrote about the Moors. The Romans and greeks did not write about any Arab!By the way, the very first Arabs were black people. Must eyewintness who wrote about Moors clearly said the Moors were black! quote " When the topic of the Moorish influence in Europe is being discussed, one of the first questions that arise is, what race was they? As early as the Middle Ages, “Moors were commonly viewed as being mostly

black or very swarthy, and hence the word is often used for negro,” 

according to the Oxford English Dictionary. Author and historian, Chancellor Williams said “the original Moors, like the original Egyptians, were black Africans.” The 16th-century English playwright William Shakespeare used the word Moor as a synonym for African. His contemporary Christopher Marlowe also

used African and Moor interchangeably.

Arab writers further buttress the black identity of the Moors. The powerful Moorish Emperor Yusuf ben-Tachfin is described by an Arab chronicler as “a brown man with wooly hair.” Black soldiers, specifically identified as Moors, were actively recruited by Rome, and served in Britain, France, Switzerland, Austria, Hungary, Poland, and Romania. St. Maurice, patron saint of medieval Europe, was only one of many black soldiers and officers under the employ of the Roman Empire. Although generations of Spanish rulers have tried to expunge this era from the historical record, recent archeology and scholarship now shed fresh light on the Moors who flourished in Al-Andalus for more than 700 years – from 711 AD until 1492. The Moorish advances in mathematics, astronomy, art, and agriculture helped propel Europe out of the Dark Ages and into the Renaissance."

quote" One need not be a linguist to see the word's evolution from the Greek "mavro" to the Latin word, "mavrvs" (actually, "mavro" in the ablative, singular, masculine Latin form). The English transliteration is "Maurus"

and the plural form is "Mauri," specifically used by ancient Romans in 

reference to Black Africans. Writers in both Greek and Latin specifically used the term as a racial identity. In the Epitome de Caesaribus (390s AD), we learn that Aemilianus was "a Moor by race." Procopius of Caesarea (500-565 AD), a Byzantine scholar who wrote in Greek, said in his History of the Wars, "beyond that there are men not black-skinned like the Moors..."Even through the middle ages, the term (as well as the Spanish, "moro," the German "mohr," the Dutch "moor" etc.) continued to be used in reference to Black Africans. In one of the

oldest Dutch texts (1300s AD), a Moor was described specifically as 

"black."An image entitled, "Habit of a Moor of Arabia," from Thomas Jefferys' A Collection of the Dresses of Different Nations(1757-1772)Further proof of the true definition of the Latin term

"Maurus" can be found in early English-Latin dictionaries:- "Maurus" 

was synonymous with "Moor," "negro," and "Aethiops" in John Etick's A new English-Latin dictionary(1783)- In A new Latin-English dictionary by

William Young (1810), "Maurus" is a "black Moor" - According to 

the Ainsworth's Latin Dictionary, Morell's abridgment by Alexander Jamieson, Robert Ainsworth (1828), "Maurus" means "black Moor"The English term "Moor" also meant "Black" in English dictionaries and encyclopaediae prior to the 20th century: - "Moor" meant "negro" or "black-a-moor" in A Dictionary of the English Language (1768) by Samuel Johnson - The Encyclopaedia Londinensis (1817) by John Wilkes lists "moor" as follows: "[maurus, Lat. Gr., black.] a negro; a blackamoor." - John Olgilvie's The Imperial Dictionary of the English Language (1882), a Moor was a "black man or negro" Somehow by the 20th century, "Maurus" and "Moor" suddenly transformed into Berber and Arab -- a grave contrast to historical precedent." Also reguarding Jesus and religion, I want to say you better becareful when you talk about Jesus being white or using regilion around black people! The frist slave ship was the good ship jesus. Also regilion and white jesus was used to enslave and kill people of peoples descent. I am wondering if your trying to tell me that jesus was white? CNN Guest Tim Wise White: Jesus Has Been Used To Kill Millions Shows History of White Supremacy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ybefLyoBQk Also during the time of so called exdous black people rule egypt. The egyptians are nile valley people they came from sudan. Egypt is a sister city of gaint emprie once called Cush or Numbia. There is no proof of any semtic or europeans types in that part of the world at that time. Torha and the bible are plagiarism of the black egytians and Nubian cutlure. According to Dr john clerk and other scholars the anceint hebrews would have been dark skinned and have wooliy hair. qoute from google sorce " During ancient times, a Roman historian, Tactitus, recorded that the Jews were black and looked Ethiopian. No doubt, this was because Jews had mixed with black Egyptians in Egypt during hundreds of years of slavery. Contrary to popular belief, European Jews are not descended from the original Jews of Jesus' " https://www.google.ca/search?q=was+the+anceint+hebrews+waas+black&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=4KcYWNeeDsLWjwS00o2QDA

I also want add where are all the European pictures and statues I have seen that white Europeans call Moors?

This is all original research and therefore is not usable as a basis for edits. Rwenonah (talk) 02:10, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Berbers

IP 51.235.83.22 and likely sock IP 37.106.217.125 claim that Fletcher does not support the definition of Moors as including Berbers. The first sentence of the book, on page one, states "In the year 711 a Berber army under Arab leadership crossed the Straits of Gibraltar..." and goes on to describe the conquest of the Iberian peninsula. Fletcher goes into more detail on the "mainly Berber" army at page 19 (same link as above). Please stop altering this content and discuss your objection here. Laszlo Panaflex (talk) 17:03, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

first of all, if you want accurate sources on this topic you need to go to Arabic sources since it was part of Umayyad Caliphate but regardless of that there is NO mention on that "English" book that you claim to be more valuable than others on the definition of moors 37.106.217.125 (talk) 17:17, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

Actually that source quite clearly indicates that the Moors included Berbers. And it does not matter what language a source is in, one language is not more accurate than the other. RickinBaltimore (talk) 17:29, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

Again you failed to point out where on the book he said the Moors were Berbers. btw it's the source of the info is more accurate than other not the language but then again you sound slow since you can't even read page 1 or 19 lool and i will take the information from the source anyday over a guy living in uk after 1000 years of the fall of the Moriscoes 37.106.217.125 (talk) 18:03, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

I'd advise you to refrain from the personal attacks, and by the way IP hopping to avoid a block is a rather bad idea. RickinBaltimore (talk) 18:09, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 July 2017 Moor (Muurs) and Muslims are not synonymous. Some Moors (Muurs) are Muslims. This is a huge piece of propaganda. We are going have to start from scratch.

2602:30A:2C83:9E00:CCD:AC53:4FED:A7A0 (talk) 18:36, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Some Moors(Muurs) are Muslims.

Semi-protected edit request on 26 July 2017 Moor (Muurs) and Muslims are not synonymous. Some Moors (Muurs) are Muslims. This is a huge piece of propaganda. We are going have to start from scratch.

2602:30A:2C83:9E00:CCD:AC53:4FED:A7A0 (talk) 18:37, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Some Moors(Muurs) are Muslims.