User talk:Jimbo Wales

President of Macedonia called in UN for recognition of Macedonian constitutional Name in UNGA, and call all citizens of Republic of Macedonia to Boycott referendum on Name Change

Only for your inf. President of Macedonia called in UN for recognition of Macedonian constitutional Name in UNGA, and call all citizens of Republic of Macedonia to Boycott referendum on Name Change in Macedonia on 30. sep. 2018. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou4ULfKO_0c — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.200.204.44 (talk) 20:20, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

For those who take an interest in these matters, Macedonia naming dispute#2017-2018 developments provides a useful summary. In short, the Prime Minister and Parliament have agreed to rename the country Republic of North Macedonia. The Greek PM and Parliament have agreed. The international community welcomed the end of this decades-old dispute. However, the President Gjorge Ivanov has refused to sign this into law. A non-binding referendum will be held on September 30th, and now Ivanov is calling for a boycott of that referendum. Opinion polls show agreement with a strong lead over disagreement.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 23:41, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

Hi Jimbo! Thank you for your interest in Macedonia. For your information a necessary cenzus for the referendum on 30. sep. 2018. is 903 169 votes, half of the citizens with voting right. This condition, as you will see on 1. of October, a day after referendum, will not be met, and according to relevant estimations number of voters casting votes will be less than 800 000 (more than 100 000 below the cenzus of 903 169 votes). It seams that referendum on Name change will fail. In approximately six months from now the current government in Macedonia will fall. As for a speech of the Macedonian president in the UN General assembly, its sounds so familiar that looks to me it was written by the known person/advisor whose name is forbidden and filtered on the English Wikipedia. Greetings!178.222.119.65 (talk) 06:25, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

Today, at 9:00 turnout was only 2.5 %, of 1.806.336 (people with voting rights, invited to vote), and the cenzus in order referendum to be successful is 903 169, according to the official State Electoral Commission [1]. With that statistical trend at the and of the day turnout would be less than the 33% or in numbers less than 600 000 people casting their vote. So if that statistical estimate is correct, number of voters casting votes today will be less than necessary 903 169 (50%+1) or more that the more than 300 000 below the cenzus of 903 169 votes.79.101.164.231 (talk) 09:47, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

New update, at 11:00 local time again a low turnout of only 8.3 % (of 1.806.336), far from the necessary 50% cenzus condition (50%+1) [2].79.101.164.231 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 10:18, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

What does turnout matter for a non-binding referendum? 96.90.213.161 (talk) 17:15, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

It matter: 1. Referendum in Macedonia have failed, 2. New early elections, 3. President will not sign Amendments, 4. most important that Prespa agreement is now death, and finally 5. Next VMRO gov. will reject any possible agreement with Greece, and if West push for any such solution Macedonia will develop stronger relations with Russia and Turkey, but also with group of Non-aligned states in the UN. Now Greece people feel more patriotic to reject Prespa or any similar agreement, and as one can observe Russia is a winner in the outcome of the Referendum in Macedonia. And security aspects do not end here, NATO and Western FIS will have to spend billions to restore previous positions, and more....109.93.1.77 (talk) 00:13, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Final results, as we learned just minutes ago is that only around 35% was the turnout, far below the Constitutional condition of minimum 50%+1 i.e. 903 169 votes. In conclusion Referendum in Macedonia have failed. As for the above mentioned speech of the Macedonian President in the UN General Assembly, that speech had major crucial impact on the boycotting of referendum, and one should also notice that many people were under influence of his advisor (here on Wiki banned filtered name I.J.) who convinced many people and media in Macedonia before referendum (even 24 hours ago on 29. sep.) that there is solution for the Name issue without the Name Change or any agreement with Greece on Constitutional Name.[3].79.101.164.231 (talk) 17:37, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

"What does turnout matter for a non-binding referendum?" Well if what you're trying to do is to cast doubt on the activity while preserving the appearance of neutrality, that's the kind of think you'd bang on about. --JBL (talk) 19:56, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

In Macedonian Parliament there are 120 MPs, and any amendment to the Constitution of Macedonia needs 81 vote, and currently ruling coalition is controlling only 70 MPs votes, 10 votes less than the condition to pass necessary amendments that are condition according Agreement (Agreement between Macedonia and Greece), that it have a legal effect and enter into force. In Macedonian Parliament opposition to the Agreement between Macedonia and Greece consist of 46 MPs that declared to be against the amendments to the Constitution of Macedonia (prerequisite condition for Agreement to enter into force). 42 MPs of them are from nationalist VMRO-DPMNE party (major opposition party and the organizer of the Boycott), and that could only mean that necessary decisions and amendments to the Constitution will not pass in the Parliament (Amendments will fail, as well). At lest 4 MPs will not vote for that Agreement amendments, or to predict at the end 75 MPs will support the Amendments, below the condition of 81 (two-thirds Constitutional condition to pass Amendments) . And Agreement will not enter into force. And, not to forget, that Agreement has to pass in the Greek Parliament too. And there, in the Greek Parliament situations is even worse than in the Macedonian one. I wouldn't bet on the Agreement on Name Change.

Besides all that I learned that two hours ago Lider of the major opposition party VMRO Mickoski call all MPs in Macedonian Parliament to vote NO in the Macedonian Parliament for the agreement. He controls 42 MPs. Furthermore, as for the structure of voters in the Macedonian referendum, from about 600 000 voters casting vote today, ethnic Albanians were 200 000, and only around 400 000 Macedonians have voted. In my opinion Referendum was disaster.79.101.164.231 (talk) 23:03, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

According to Infomax only 250 000 ethnic have Macedonians voted in referendum! [4]. I believe its exaggeration, and its fair to say that number of ethnic Macedonians voted was aprox. 350 000. As for President call to boycott, I think that his voice had impact on more than the 500 000 people not to vote. Similar to the number people voted for him to become the President 4 years ago (540 000).93.86.84.30 (talk) 23:53, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

In addition, all that mess was apparently created by the Macedonian president (who influenced more than 250 000 not to vote) and by the most hated person on Wikipedia who is known here and labeled User:Operahome. Now in this moment and probably previous few days that person is in Macedonia (so I am not him, as you can see from my IP that is in Belgrade, Serbia).79.101.164.231 (talk) 23:33, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

By insulting that particular person, i.e. not allowing BLP, Wikipedia created damage to the Western security and overthrow government in Macedonia leaded by Zoran Zaev. Don't forget the fact that any Amendment to the Macedonian Constitution has to be signed by the Macedonian President to have an efect, and he will never sign it.91.150.97.61 (talk) 08:16, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

All that story about "He is angry at Wikipedia" are not true! I called him and spoke with him shortly today, and he told by that he is sorry for all that mess on Wikipedia and that he is not behind any such ugly things. In addition he likes Wikipedia, and use it for information, and never had bad feelings about this Encyclopedia. So no one is going to start Third World War for BLP at Wikipedia or anything like this.178.222.113.138 (talk) 20:50, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

It looks to me Wikipedia was far more efficient than the KGB in the mission of overthrowing Macedonian government. In the 48 hours from now ruling party SDSM and the Prime-minister Zoran Zaev will inform media that they are preparing for the new early elections in Macedonia. Elections will be held on 25. of November 2018. As a result of the elections they will won three seats more in the Macedonian Parliament, and that still would not be enough to pass Constitutional amendments. Cheers!93.86.85.165 (talk) 07:15, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

Indeed, correct information! According to the pro-government “INFO” (“ИНФО“) [5] it seams that there will be a new elections for the new Parliament, since lieder of the opposition Hristijan Mickoski do not want to speak and meet with the Prime-minister Zoran Zaev. Title: “ЕКСКЛУЗИВНО Нема средба Заев – Мицкоски, власта оди на избори” (There Will be no meeteng Mickovski-Zaev) and later in the text “ Премиерот Зоран Заев најверојатно нема да се сретне со опозицискиот лидер Христијан Мицкоски во врска со уставните измени за Договорот од Преспа, со што речиси е извесно дека излез од постреферендумската криза ќе се бара во предвремени парламентарни избори, брифира за Плусинфо висок владин функционер.“ In translation shrotly „possible new elections, according to high gov. official“.109.93.3.232 (talk) 19:51, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

• In adition PM mentioned 25 of Nov: „Премиерот Заев вечерта по соопштувањето на резултатите од цензусот на референдумот најави дека доколку деновиве не успеат со ВМРО-ДПМНЕ да се договорат за поддршка на уставните амандмани, ќе се оди на избори и тоа на 25 ноември.“, shortly Prime-minister mentioned elections on 25. of Nov, as user (extremly well informed) predicted above. See last sentence of the same source text in INFO.109.93.3.232 (talk) 20:07, 2 October 2018 (UTC):

It seams to me that it was smarter thing to allow the requested BLP for that person, than bullying and harassing his name for years on English Wikipedia[6].178.222.123.199 (talk) 10:20, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

As Jimbo ones said about that "controversial person", personal behavior should not affect relevance of particular person. Or to put it in other words, even Adolf Hitler deserve a page here.109.93.1.77 (talk) 19:27, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

In conclusion, it was ones said that the task of Wikipedia is not to create History, or change the course of Political History. In the case of I.J., Wiki admins. indeed finally had important contribution in creating new Political History simply by being stubborn and ignorant.109.93.1.77 (talk) 00:35, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Exactly, and President Ivanov will not give a mandate to a new SDSM government after early elections! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.245.36.166 (talk) 13:53, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

VMRO may accept to have an early elections under conditions of 100 days expert gov. before the elections, otherwise boycott of elections itself. [7][8]93.86.84.30 (talk) 23:18, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Wikinews is a sad failure and doomed. Major changes needed!

The headline captures my mood after trying to “recycle“ Wikipedia content at Wikinews. Despite that site desperately needing more editors, and relevant content, a crazy license incompatibility and policy differences discourage editors from crossing over and using Wikipedia content there. Read about my frustrating experience here: https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/User_talk:Gray62#Cern_scientist_suspended_after_controversial_presentation What madness, to expect users to learn different rules and rewrite all texts! Jimbo, pls weigh in and restart Wikinews, on a sound basis. Or else WMF should shut that failure down so that the efforts wasted there may go into Wikipedia. One way or the other, hard changes are necessary. The sad status quo there is embarassing and unacceptable, imho. Gray62 (talk) 19:44, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

Due to my efforts to do something new at WikiTribune I try to stay out of discussions about WikiNews. There are some really great people there as well, and I support them in what they want to do. In these difficult times, I think everyone should try what they can to try to innovate in this space.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 20:05, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

I didn't know about Wikitribune, that's an interesting new project thank you for that info. But won't it make Wikinews redundant? Also, with honest respect for the “really great people“ at Wikinews, but their lack of success is obvious on the mainpage. Who's gonna visit that site to read the pathetic five articles of questionable interest displayed there, really? Whatever the “really great people“ are doing, it ain't working, sorry. And without the Foundation weighing in and ordering changes, nothing will change for the better, I'm afraid. Gray62 (talk) 20:35, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

When I spoke to them a few years ago, they were not so interested in becoming a popular news site. So while I agree with you in part, I also think people should do what they enjoy.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 20:53, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

I guess I dig your view. Thx for taking the time to listen to a frustrated Wikinews user, Jimbo! Have a relaxed evening. Gray62 (talk) 20:59, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

The best thing we could do to make both Wikinews and Wikitribune thrive would be to make Wikipedia an encyclopedia instead of a news site that is also an encyclopedia. Simply disallow any content newer than 48 hours, and announce this on the main page. The benefits to Wikipedia would be huge; our content would be far better and roughly 80% of our conflicts between editors would never happen. Alas, too many here are addicted to breaking news for this to ever happen. --Guy Macon (talk) 21:05, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

While this idea is interesting, imho, as someone who is much more a user of wikipedia than an editor, it's an important feature of this encyclopedia that it provides up-to-date facts. I don't think the majority of users would appreciate it if articles don't reflect the present situation, like the death of guys covered here. The solution for editor disputes (afaics mostly based on pov fights) can't/won't be a 48 hours delay, imho. Gray62 (talk) 21:35, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

Gray62, I like Wikinews, a lot, and you, as an individual, can be really productive at Wikinews, I think. Just get in there and work. Just do it! (where have I heard that before?) Nocturnalnow (talk) 22:49, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

The benefits to Wikipedia would be huge; our content would be far better and roughly 80% of our conflicts between editors would never happen. [citation needed] The Rambling Man (talk) 22:52, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

It is clear enough to me that the editor, for brevity, omitted the words "In my considered opinion, based upon my admittedly incomplete experience...". I suspect they knew that reasonable editors would unconsciously fill in those words, and aren't accustomed to being challenged when they omit them. I'm asserting the preceding without evidence, as this is not a courtroom; accept or reject as you will. ―Mandruss ☎ 23:24, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

...simply disallow any content newer than 48 hours, and announce this on the main page. In my considered opinion, based upon my twelve years editing Wikipedia -- and noting that my experience (and the experience of everyone who reads this) only encompasses a small fraction of our 1,241,051,067 edits, 61,446,592 pages of all kinds, and 6,882,782 articles -- the benefits to Wikipedia would be huge; our content would be far better, and by my estimate roughly 80% of our conflicts between editors would never happen. Alas, too many here are addicted to breaking news for this to ever happen. --Guy Macon (talk) 06:52, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

... and definitely it is not possible for there to be arguments about what "48 hours" means, how to determine when the 48 hour countdown begins, whether 47 hours 53 minutes is close enough, ......... The principle that we are not and should not be news is unobjectionable, but the proposed solution is not one; as long as you're wishing for it, you might as well wish for a pony, too. --JBL (talk) 14:42, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

Facts are facts. According to Alexa, Wikipedia is the #5 website in the world and Wikinews is #61,982. Wikinews is irrelevant. Our Wikipedia main page always features about half a dozen major news stories and a similar number of recent deaths. Of course, we should not be doing original news reporting. But in case after countless case, for nearly 18 years, our articles about breaking news events have evolved into enduring articles worthy of study by researchers in history for centuries to come. Very early in the history of this project, we dealt with the events of September 11, 2001, and many of those articles were highly contentious for years. But they gradually matured, settled down, and are now outstanding educational resources free to humanity. If we prevent adding reports of the deaths of highly famous people for 48 hours, we make ourselves look ridiculous to our readers. If we prevent adding content about the deaths of less famous people for 48 hours, interest in updating may well fade, and the quality of content will suffer. The burst of editing enthusiasm in the hours and days after a major news event can be problematic, but it can also be enormously useful if properly channeled. High quality articles develop and improve over time, and 48 hours limits and NOTNEWS dogmatism are counterproductive. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 05:50, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

The news on Wikipedia really isn't very good either. I mean, for days we ran a Main Page link to Sinking of the MV Nyerere in which we claimed that "eyewitnesses" had said that passengers surging to one side managed to sink the ferry; but from the first reports the local press and government had been saying it capsized because an untrained person was in control of the ship who was on a cell phone and made a sudden turn. (my edits) In truth it was one unidentified person on shore talking to an AFP reporter who claimed he saw the other version of events, who turned into "eyewitnesses" by editor error.

I should emphasize though that the early edits are of tremendous importance, because too many Wikipedia editors fail to realize that the first news story is generally the best news story. I skipped back through 80 pages of faint echoes on newslookup.com to reach the first report (which had been updated) from local press that gave thorough coverage. The longer you wait to write, the harder it is to find the couple of real reporters who actually were on the scene talking to people rather than all the noise of me-too hangers-on looking for a slice of eyeballs. The sooner people edit, the more of the good sources will end up in the references section. Wnt (talk) 07:07, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Late Night with Steve Colbert Wikipedia skit

Starts at 7:00 minutes; pretty funny, imo. More importantly, it shows how wonderfully Wikipedia has been embraced into American culture as a fixture of daily life. Nocturnalnow (talk) 22:27, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

Here is a news source describing the anonymous Congressional edit in question. But much more serious is the other big Wikipedia-and-Kavanaugh story in the news lately: the doxxing of 3 Republican senators. [9] IntoThinAir (talk) 00:59, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

It's big news that someone added a phone number to Lindsey Graham's article that was not actually his phone number, that essentially no one seems to have called, and that seems to have been reverted more or less immediately? --JBL (talk) 14:48, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

Right, because writing or calling your Senator is not a thing that any American is allowed to do at all, is it? Guy (Help!) 15:31, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

It wasn't just phone numbers (nor was it just Graham), it was also home addresses (which apparently, unlike the phone numbers, were actually accurate). IntoThinAir (talk) 18:26, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

Politico reports an arrest and says that the suspect "has been charged with making public restricted personal information, witness tampering, threats in interstate communications, unauthorized access of a government computer, identity theft, second-degree burglary and unlawful entry." Everything is still alleged of course. There must be more behind these charges than simply putting names, addresses, and telephone numbers on Wikipedia.

With those kind of possible legal consequences, I ain't gonna come close to doxing anybody - not even an undisclosed paid administrator.

Smallbones_(smalltalk) 02:33, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Since when did a phone book become a federal offense??? To me it looks like the situation is that Wikipedia is not embarrassed to go for ten years without articles on Nobel Prize winning researchers, but proud to have someone undo edits within a single minute if they provide even the tiniest piece of general biographical information that might be used by an evil prole in some inconvenient way. How can a site that literally prioritizes the suppression of information 5,259,600 times more highly than the transmission of information plausibly develop a free educational resource? Wnt (talk) 07:17, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Smallbones, no matter what we do or do not do, any one of us, just like Brandon Mayfield, can be arrested, convicted, and jailed for life if we are targeted. Mayfield's fingerprints had been "100% verified" by the FBI. The only reason he got released and an apology and millions in settlement money is because he was lucky enough to have the Spanish police looking into the case. The bigger issue, imo, is that most of us are willing to completely ignore all of the wrongful convictions, even though a small % have been publicized, and continue to expect that USA "justice" people are almost always looking for truth and that juries are some sort of check on bad evidence. When you watch 48 Hours (TV program) you see that most convictions are based on the skimpiest of circumstantial evidence, and since the juries are getting ever more stupid and easily manipulated, many so called "cold cases" are being prosecuted now with the exact same, no more, circumstantial B.S. as they contained 20 years ago...its just that the prosecutors in 2018 can get convictions with crappy evidence that could not be gotten 20-50 years ago. Also, there are so many arcane and unknown laws in the USA, plus an abundance of jailhouse snitches/liars that virtually every person in the USA is a technical criminal, most have just not been targeted or set up yet. Americans need to wake the ____ up., imo. Nocturnalnow (talk) 18:22, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Female Nobel prize winner deemed not important enough for Wikipedia entry

The Guardian. Volunteer Marek 18:55, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

• This is disturbing to me; I think it warrants that we implement mitigation.--John Cline (talk) 19:12, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
  • This is also being discussed on the talk page of Bradv, who originally declined the draft this past March (well before she won the Nobel Prize, of course). See User talk:Bradv#About your rejection of the AfC on Donna Strickland. IntoThinAir (talk) 20:26, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
    • "of 212 Nobel laureates, 69 (33%) had no Wikipedia bio when prize was announced" Huh, this isn't as big of an outlier as The Guardian is trying to make it seem. Databased (talk) 03:56, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Does any AfC get accepted...? Also, why is all the history before the recreation of the article crossed out? Wnt (talk) 01:33, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

An earlier version was a copyvio apparently. Long discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Women_in_Red#Donna_Strickland, and shorter one at the bottom of this long-running section at Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(academics). Johnbod (talk) 03:40, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

It's worth noting that we didn't have an article for George Smith either, until he won his Chemistry Nobel yesterday. Stephen 02:18, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

It certainly is, but you can be sure nobody will, least of all the Guardian! Johnbod (talk) 03:40, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

This is another example of the media failing to understand Wikipedia policy. If Donna Strickland had been turned down for a Wikipedia article because she was a woman, this would obviously have been wrong. When it comes to creating new articles, they have to be properly written and sourced. It's on days like this that I am glad not to be an administrator, because if I had turned down Donna Strickland for an article on the grounds that it wasn't properly written or sourced, I would have been hung out to dry in the media by now.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 05:26, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

So, we have stuff like women in red and editors like Jessica Wade + of course the rest of us. And this happened anyway, like with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. "It" can happen again. We can close down WP or keep editing. I'm curious if that computer program missed her too. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:46, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Just a redirect

Hello, I’m a user account operated by someone named Lewis. I would just like to tell you kindly that I have added a redirect to your userpage. Is that Ok? If so no need for action. If not just delete Draft:WP:JIMBOW. 183.192.56.30 (talk) 10:12, 4 October 2018 (UTC)