Talk:Yellow vests protests

gilets

how come this means vests and when I translate "jackets" to French using Google Translate it is "vestes"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wishfart (talk • contribs) 16:22, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

"Gilet" has two main meanings: the first a sleeveless waistcoat, the second a tricot garment with sleeves. (Source: [1]) Vest/veste may also be sleeved or sleeveless in both languages. They're frequent words with many meanings that vary in time, place and "register", so you need context to translate in an unequivocal way. But hey, no original research here, of course ;-) Wakari07 (talk) 17:26, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

In the French law, it is written gilet de haute visibilité, for instance in "Lorsqu'ils circulent la nuit, ou le jour lorsque la visibilité est insuffisante, tout conducteur et passager d'un cycle doivent porter hors agglomération un gilet de haute visibilité conforme à la réglementation et dont les caractéristiques sont prévues par un arrêté du ministre chargé des transports." (Article R431-1-1 En savoir plus sur cet article... Créé par Décret n°2008-754 du 30 juillet 2008 - art. 20) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.67.188.240 (talk) 22:05, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

In Irish Euro-English, it can be called High-visibility clothing [2]

In Euro-English, it can be called high visibility vests [3]

In Euro-English, it can also be called High visibility clothing [4]

In British English, the BBC can use high-visibility jackets, high-visibility clothing, and high-vis. the ubiquity of high-visibility clothing means that it surely symbolises the Britain of 2010s in the same way that miniskirts summed up the 1960s. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-14720101 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.67.188.240 (talk) 22:36, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Urbanism / amusing snark from the mayor of Saint Etienne

On December 7, 2018, the press reported that the mayor of Saint-Etienne had tweeted that Lyon's festival of lights should be canceled to free up the forces of order. Funny the press echo that's gotten already. [5] Allez les verts. ^^ This is probably related to the student strike in St. Etienne [6] (and in Lyon...) — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 23:14, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

What is so amusing/Funny in riots? The fact that many cities have to cancel many events dues to security/safety issues? I am quite sure that in many countries citizens would not consider amusing/Funny to have such events at home... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.67.188.240 (talk) 21:30, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

There is a huge rivalry between St. Etienne & Lyon (even in folk histories of the regional Dec 8 tradition). If Lyon's event were canceled, perhaps tourists would go to St. Etienne instead. I guess I'll write it in though, since RS seem to find it more important than the rain. — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 22:09, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

The riots are very serious indeed, but agree with Sashi is is still good to see the funny side. When protestors make good use of humour it often helps them achieve their aims and reduces the risk of provoking a shocking response from authorities like we saw at St. Exupery. This has a long tradtion in France going back to François Rabelais, Charivari and beyond. In the last few days, thousands have marched in support of students under the banner of Armée de Dumbledore , though I've not yet found a good source to include this. There is an excellent source available saying The Donald supported the yellow vests as he thought the movement is an endorsement of himself, but while LOLish thought it best not to include that. FeydHuxtable (talk) 14:46, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

There's history there. Dumbledore's army wasn't born yesterday. ^^— 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 02:21, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

Protests in Italy

There are currently no gilets jaunes protests I can find that have taken place in Italy. The only citation provided in this article that claims Italy is a part of these protests mentions an online group which is planning one.

I have removed Italy from the infobox because of this. If anyone can find any evidence that there are gilets jaunes protests taking place in Italy, then you're welcome to add it back in.

Grngu (talk) 15:36, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Twitter botnets

Reading an article in Courrier International, I see that The Times has written an article about the yellow jackets movement having being stirred up by Russians. Anyone subscribed to The Times out there, so we could add their POV? — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 22:48, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

All the article says (the Courrier one) is that hundreds of accounts "linked to Russia" are trying to exaggerate the movement's significance and sowing ethnic division on social media. While it's not an uncommon accusation in Europe nowadays, I don't mind mentioning this as long as it is properly attributed to The Times and "New Knowledge", the cybersecurity firm it is citing. Access to the Times is not required, since we already have a reliable secondary source covering this.

And, while we're at it, we should probably mention other global government and media reactions, such as the ones summed up by this Figaro article. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 10:26, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

Turns out that Russian media is, in fact, suspicious of the protests and likened them to colour revolutions in ex-Soviet republics.[7] They suspect the Trump administration of being involved as a means to "punish" Macron for supporting a unified European army.

So if there are plans to mention conspiracy theories in the article, citing obscure firms like "New Knowledge", then we might as well mention the Russian side of the story, which is reliably sourced.[8] Fitzcarmalan (talk) 12:05, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

I'd read the Le Monde article from 3 Dec before. In it, the journalist (a Moscow correspondent) strongly suggests that Dmitri Kisselev is full of it. ^^ — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 15:12, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

The etymology of les gilets jaunes

The literal translation of les gilets jaunes into English would actually be "the yellow gilets" because the latter is a valid item of clothing in much of the English speaking world. The practical translation should be along the lines of "the yellow jackets" because the items of clothing worn aren't vests at all. Hindianu (talk) 18:00, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

See wikt:vest#Noun. Wakari07 (talk) 01:38, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Allocution

@SashiRolls: Firstly salut Sashi, I freely admit I'd never heard "allocution" used in English before but have noted it for future reference! I suspect -but may be wrong -that it's a French word with an English equivalent which has largely been superseded. The Google translation is "address" which is absolutely the word I think is required here. Any objections to changing it? Regards JRPG (talk) 22:25, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

Salut back! Yes, that's great, sorry for being stubborn. — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 22:41, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

@JRPG: I went ahead and did it. So ... you were right straight across the board. ^^ If you see anything else, don't hesitate... — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c}

"I suspect -but may be wrong -that it's a French word with an English equivalent". I assume both words (allocution and adresse) have been in the (Middle/Old) French language before being in the English one. Both words (including adrece ) could also come from the latin language (ad + rex / ad + rect) and ad + locutio from alloqui . That's just they are not used in the exact same way in both languages, but may be wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.185.253.246 (talk) 23:14, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

address (noun): "Meaning "act or manner of speaking to" is from 1670s. Sense of "formal speech to an audience" (Gettysburg Address, etc.) is from 1751. Sense of "superscription of a letter" (guiding it to its destination) is from 1712 and led to the meaning "place of residence" (by 1888)." https://www.etymonline.com/word/address

to address (verb): early 14c., "to guide, aim, or direct," from Old French adrecier "go straight toward; straighten, set right; point, direct" (13c.), from Vulgar Latin *addirectiare "make straight" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.185.253.246 (talk) 23:24, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Allocution (disambiguation), wikt:allocution: usage in English is more restricted to the formalism of the Pope, law court and media theory, whereas in French, it's simply a short harangue, a "speech to the troops". Wakari07 (talk) 01:55, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Brexit-Dubious

I am adding the dubious tag to the addition of Brexit to the goals section of this article. The citation, from the BBC, appears to be talking about events in Britain when it mentions Brexit, and even then the interviewee seems to be saying the YV movement has been appropriated by pro-Brexit groups.

I would also have some concern about trying to enumerate *every* pro- or anti-policy position being espoused by the increasingly diverse array of groups who, without wanting to be pejorative, jumped on the YV bandwagon.

I am also somewhat dubious about Euroscepticism being a goal: in some other countries, maybe. Italy and Britain, for sure. In order to move forward, and to avoid this becoming a flag on which people pin their own take on what's happening, perhaps we can split the goals section: "Original" at the top, to describe the goals of the original YV protestors in regional France, and national headings, starting with France, to describe stated goals of YVs to date by nationality. Or: Goals could just be original goals of first YV protestors, with a statement (to paraphrase) "see individual country entries for YV protestors stated goals in each country", and shift these other goals there.

Maintaining NPOV is protecting WP's reputation. Some people come to find out how YV movement started, and anyone reading this article who isn't familiar with what's going on might end up believing the original YV movement in France was about Brexit: obviously not the case. Prime Lemur (talk) 04:27, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

I have removed Brexit because it is probably not one of the goals of the French protest movement. (but, Cf. the Hundred Years' War). It should be discussed here before being readded (BRD).

I have added the link to the 42 Directives published by France Bleu as representative of Les Gilets Jaune's goals to the infobox from the body of the text.

I did not succeed in adding goals (France) to the infobox. Perhaps the parentheses break the template?

I wish people would format references correctly, rather than just multiplying bare links in ref tags...— 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 09:53, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

Potentially relevant: User talk:ToBeFree/Archive 4#Message by EDively -- also pinging EDively, who may want to join the discussion per Special:Diff/873758429 and Special:Diff/873759551. Now that three users have independently complained about various unsourced additions, I hope that the issue becomes clear. Thanks ~ ToBeFree (talk) 16:49, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

Thank you @SashiRolls and ToBeFree, I guess this article will see a lot of traffic for a while, so I appreciate your personal responses.

I just want to refloat the idea ... a treatment of the "original" goals of YV may have value, as 1) it can be definitively stated as of now what started the movement, and won't change, and 2) this might be what some people came to the article looking for (this is what actually brought me here, hoping to verify the original grievances of the movement). Having said that, the situation is dynamic and, even early on, encompassed a range of issues in different places in France.

I'm happy to wait and see if other opinions on the topic of specifically outlining the original motivations of the YVs emerge. Once again, thanks for your feedback. Prime Lemur (talk) 01:40, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Removed an RT article & The Sun snippet about 20 people stopping busses. Let's wait for a little better sourcing... (long reads)— 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 20:08, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

🌪 This article seems to have settled a bit now. Thanks @SashiRolls for keeping an eye on it. Prime Lemur (talk) 11:32, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Death(s) 7 civilians (in France)

This warrants a deaths section by now.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 19:09, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

Canada

Canada should be removed from the list of countries yellow vests are in. These are just far right groups such as soldiers of odin, hijacking yellow vests for publicity. Their only purpose is to stop brown people in Canada. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.92.108.65 (talk) 00:21, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Don't get too worked up... all that is in the "also ran" category is clearly co-optation, whether friendly or un-friendly. Cheers, — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 00:44, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Those yellow vest protests in the Middle East are part of the Francosphere

Those Islamic countries where the yellow vests are taking place are also countries where the academic language is also French. 14:50, 18 December 2018 (UTC)Sweatisoftheessence (talk)

Ah bon? Irak? Jordan? Israël? Francophone? Ça alors! Je savais pas. ^^ — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 19:18, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

Yes. Iraq was historically tied to France. Jordan is a former colonial. Israel is part of Eurosphere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sweatisoftheessence (talk • contribs) 00:35, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Hi @Sweatisoftheessence:. I concur with SashiRolls. Iraq and Jordan have no apparent sovereign link to France. Both countries sovereignty in recent history starts with the Ottoman Empire, then became British Protectorates (semi-autonomous), then sovereign states.

As for academic language: please see https://www.nafsa.org/Professional_Resources/Browse_by_Interest/International_Students_and_Scholars/Network_Resources/International_Enrollment_Management/The_Education_System_in_Iraq__An_Overview/

All of this doesn't mean there aren't links between France and / or the French language and these countries. However, a statement that Jordan and Iraq are within the Francosphere seem unsupportable. If you have something you think supports your statement, I'd be happy to look.

Thanks, Prime Lemur (talk) 11:21, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Wapo & Guardian op/eds removed from lede, first add them to the entry please. :)

These references were removed from the lead. They are interesting but probably should be worked into the body of the entry first. The key line I read in Lichfield's op-ed: "They (ed.) these apolcaplyptic visions are bizarre and dangerous aims for the mainstream revolutionaries – garage mechanics, retired building contractors, home carers, small entrepreneurs – who make up the bulk of the officially leaderless yellow vest movement". — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 19:54, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

I would also like to ask that you add this to a citation template. I'll add the example from Reuters below.

References

Here's a simple one: <ref>{{cite news | author = | date = | newpaper = | title = | url = | accessdate = | language = en}}</ref>

Resignation of Charles Michel

Shouldn't it be explicetly stated that Charles Michel didn't resign because of the Yellow vests but because of an ongoing government crisis related to the UN Migration Pact? Stuffi3000 (talk) 11:46, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

I removed the line about Charles Michel. @L293D: could you please check this article out? Charles Michel resigned because the Flemish nationalist party left his coalition; not because of the Yellow jackets. (At least I've found a lot of RS asserting the former.) See also: Michel I Government — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 14:30, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Also, it appears the King has not accepted his resignation yet.

References

I've expanded the sentence about his resignation, explaining that he claims to have done so for other reasons. L293D (☎ • ✎) 14:42, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, I was working on it too. :) — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 15:06, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Will act VI take place?

Please, provide people with details about Act VI, because it's very difficult to find any information using popular search engines. Jacob poland (talk) 14:21, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 14:30, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 December 2018

The yellow vests protests have spread to Taiwan. Source: https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/21/asia/taiwan-yellow-vest-protest-intl/index.html 65.92.98.217 (talk) 18:59, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Done. Thanks! — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 21:45, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Francophone Belgium

@Morgengave: Hi. There's a Le Monde article and possibly another already in the bibliography mentioning how the yellow vests movement had its origin in Wallonia. Concerning the billiard-ball incident Le Soir says of the demonstrators "beaucoup ont fait la déplacement de la Wallonie"... see the embedded (French-speaking) reporter live-blogging it. [9]. Another article from RTL.be: "Gilets jaunes: pourquoi la Flandre est-elle épargnée ?"[10]

Feel free to join the TP discussion above about Charles Michel. It seems Charles Michel ran into a bit of bother too because nobody on the center-left wanted to join the government to replace the Flemish party from what I've read... but nobody wants elections right now I guess. — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 22:10, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

But it's not limited to Wallonia. There were protests in bilingual Brussels as referenced in the article, and there were some protests in Flanders: amongst others small scale ones in Genk and Hasselt: [11] and Leuven: [12], and one planned for tomorrow in Antwerp: [13]. I would be cautious to assume it has a language community aspect. Morgengave (talk) 22:23, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

I disagree on the importance of language. It says right there in your second article: "The activists distributed pamphlets in three languages ​​(Dutch, English and Polish) to drivers who entered and left the brewery." Via goobledi-translate I read that the guy in the first article says he had hoped for 10 people to show up after creating a FB group, and was delighted when 30 did.

That 20-yellow-vest action at the beer factory sure is curious in that second ref though. In Wallonie, it was oil depots. So yeah, some of the Belgian yellow vests seem to be against tubing, though I've yet to read an RS actually come out and say it.

I agree with your flattening of the list of international events. — 🍣 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 15:43, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

I also disagree on the importance of language -- there's no language divide in Belgium around the yellow vests -- people in the different language communities participate. Morgengave (talk) 11:51, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Croatia

Hello, this movement has also been active in Croatia. Source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crazymanball (talk • contribs) 23:13, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Done. Thank you! Levivich (talk) 06:03, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Yellow vests protest during act VI in Portugal

Please update the content of the article with a new source of yellow vests protests that took place in Portugal. Yellow vests movement in Portugal — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jacob poland (talk • contribs) 10:48, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Done. Thanks! Levivich (talk) 06:04, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Pakistan

Sorry to be overly detail oriented, but only the photo from Pakistan Today allows connection with the gilets jaunes; there are no words linking the Engineers to the yellow vests in any of the three articles used in the entry. Not sure what to make of this... — 🐡 SashiRolls ^{t · c} 21:50, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

References

I agree with removing in the absence of an explicit RS. For similar reasons, I'm not sure that Ref #6 (this BBC video) supports Greece, Hungary, Romania, or Sweden as currently listed and I wonder if we shouldn't find better sources for those countries or else remove them? Levivich (talk) 06:17, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Pakistan Protest

Sorry for giving fewer references, Please read the line, "Their use of yellow jacket symbolizes the citizens` movement going on in French capital Paris against oil price hike."Follow here

Further, I have uploaded a pic which clearly mention solidarity with Yellow Vests https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Yellow_Vests_Lahore.jpg Umar shahid (talk) 12:55, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

I see it's been posted to the PECOofficial FB page, too: [14] I guess the globe is abuzz with 虎頭蜂 ~ 🐝 ~ SashiRolls ^{t · c} 13:39, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Now revert edit and add Pakistan too Umar shahid (talk) 18:46, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Done. I decided to sleep on it and see if something more would come out in the press, but no. Odd, that. Looks like this has been simmering for a while [15]. Feel free to add the image, fix the prose, or update, should something more detailed be reported. Best, SashiRolls ^{t · c} 01:36, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 December 2018

Typo in section "Protests outside France adopting the symbol" Pakistan -> Portugal 2601:204:CF00:2768:70CF:71AE:E445:D67D (talk) 08:18, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

 Done DannyS712 (talk) 08:27, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

So sorry about that, got them confused. Thank you for fixing it. Levivich (talk) 08:38, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Hungary

I used parts of this article to write in the Dutch Wikipedia, but in the BBC documentary I could not find a source indicating that the movement is active in Hungary. (While it used this as a reference, I am talking about: Yellow Vests: Is the movement spreading across Europe?) Have I missed it? Is the movement active in Hungary or not? If so another source might be needed for this. AntonHogervorst (talk) 09:24, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

The "movement", such as it is, seems to involve reaching into your glovebox (or your emoji-box) and putting on a high-visibility symbol. The rules permitting employers to demand 400 hours per year of overtime work with the requirement that they pay only within three years reminds me of the many unpaid overtime hours the French police have been upset about. In any case, there are links drawn between the two movements by Al Jazeera, DW, Bloomberg, etc. It being significantly colder in Budapest, I imagine that gilets jaunes as outer-vests don't make much sense. But as elsewhere, the catalyst seems to be a local issue. ~ 🐝 ~ SashiRolls ^{t · c} 14:55, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

I agree that it is hard to judge what is 'yellow vest' and what not. After doing some research it seems to me that some organisations are indeed just copying the yellow vest symbol but there is little connection between them. For example the movement in the Netherlands is anti-EU, and many protesters like Orban the president of Hungary (personal experience), while the people in Budapest were protesting against the same person. For this moment I just 'leave Hungary out' in the Dutch article. Thanks for your reply. AntonHogervorst (talk) 12:32, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

Hello, therE are Many news in the French version, in particular AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL 14/12/2018. --Stfj (talk) 08:05, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

I removed Hungray (and a few other countries) for lack of sourcing, but they would be welcome inclusions if we had RS to cite for them. If the RS supporting them are in French (or any other language), English-speakers like me won't be able to add them in; I rely on editors who speak foreign languages to add the foreign sources or post links here (and not just tell us that they exist, because that is not actionable, at least not by me). Thanks. Levivich (talk) 20:29, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

Uhm. What information do you want exactly? I speak Dutch, English, French, Spanish, German and Korean. AntonHogervorst (talk) 22:30, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

Just to clarify, my comment was in response to Stfj's comment above about "many news in the French version." My research into Hungray led me to the same conclusion as others; I don't see English-language sources describing the protests in Hungary as part of the yellow vests movement. If anything, they suggest the opposite: that it's a separate protest movement, with, at most, some participants wearing yellow vests in solidarity with Gilet jaunes, but the people in Hungary aren't described as part of Gilet jaunes. So, if there are "many news in the French version," it will require a French-speaking editor to add them (although we have French-speaking editors who have said they also haven't found sources saying Hungary is part of Gilet jaunes). Asserting that some part of the English-language article doesn't match French-language sources, without providing those sources, isn't helpful. Levivich (talk) 17:48, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Manifesto

Is it known, whether the manifesto with the list of demands, which circulates the internet, is authentic or not? If so, it might be good to add it into the article. https://i1.wp.com/www.lelibrepenseur.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/gilet-jaune-charte.jpg?w=1000&ssl=1 --178.255.168.11 (talk) 06:41, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

Allegations of antisemitism by various bien-pensants

what about http://thejewishvoice.com/2018/12/17/anti-semitic-rhetoric-found-in-yellow-vest-protests-across-france/ ? These elements should be explained. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wishfart (talk • contribs) 10:01, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

pull-quote from article: "Earlier this week, Israel announced a new plan to promote and encourage French Aliyah."

pull-quote 2 -- "a huge banner that was displayed on an overpass over the main highway between Paris and Marseilles accused French President Emmanuel Macron of being a “w—- to the Jews.” "

Were this true, one would think one would be able to find a trace of it by searching for "banderole gilets jaunes". And in fact what one finds is the story of a banner that appeared for a few hours at an obscure roundabout and which said nothing of the sort. [16], [17]

Wikipedia: "The Jewish Voice has an unapologetic pro-Zionist editorial outlook. It covers of (sic) Israeli and local news (the latter focused on New York, New Jersey and Florida). On its Facebook page, the Jewish Voice mission statement is (sic) "Providing our readers with timely and thought-provoking news and opinion, from a pro-American, pro-Zionist perspective."

This source is used 14 times on en.wp SashiRolls ^{t · c} 12:44, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

I noticed the Jewish Voice article linked to also quotes people who said: The yellow jacket movement is not itself antisemitic but this protest is multiform, unorganized on national level and very autonomous. Because of that, there have been manifestations of racism and anti-Semitism in various forms, linking the Jews to the 'power elites' and The yellow jacket movement attracts anti-Semites who try to infuse theories like 'Jews, Zionists are the elites, the financiers'. Personally I don't think JV is a reliable source, especially for "what is and what is not" anti-semitism. Even JV seems to be careful not to accuse the movement, as a whole, of anti-semitism. Rather, they are pointing out some instances of what I would call attempted co-optation. I do think our article might benefit from a section about "attempted co-optation," similar to the "uses in other countries" section, but I'm not sure if there are enough RSes to support it just yet (meaning, whether the problem is really widespread enough or notable enough such that its inclusion would be WP:DUE, or whether this is just isolated trivia, such that its inclusion would be UNDUE). Levivich (talk) 18:37, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Of course you don't think JV is reliable, you wouldn't accept any Jewish source. I can point out interview after interview of common French people who while upset with the Gov, disavow the protests because of bigotry in it. But you think the JV is lying. Unbelievable. [18] There are countless articles just like this with quotes discussing the problems with the protestors. 96.31.177.52 (talk) 21:23, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

IP user: please read up on what Wikipedia is not. Wakari07 (talk) 22:08, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Honest clearly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.31.177.52 (talk) 07:44, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

The Guardian article doesn't mention antisemitism, so I'm confused. But regardless of my confusion, everyone is welcome to edit the encyclopedia; please feel free to add reliable sources and expand the article. Levivich (talk) 22:15, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

A New Republic article with a flamboyant title: [19]

factual error (a matraque is not a firearm): "Weeks later, Drouet was arrested during a Paris protest for carrying an illegal firearm."

This exaggeration should not be overblown to discredit the article. This is a pretty good essay from a media elite aspirant who has apparently worked for France 24 & The Daily Beast already. It's already in the article ref-named Hurst, if anyone wants to write more. Incidentally, I've now "seen" the banner mentioned in the JV on the twitter account of a journalist from LCP (or Public Sénat). (No date on the picture though... the original seems to have been deleted.) SashiRolls ^{t · c} 17:40, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

I did some searching. The banner (or maybe "a" banner) is reported with photo by Times of Israel last month. [20] I thought I saw a picture of a different antisemitic banner from a more recent protest, but I can't find it now. In addition to the JV [21] and TNR [22] articles, antisemitism is being covered in Haaretz [23], Jewish Star [24], The Local (France) [25], The Times (UK) [26] and Middle East Media Research Institute [27]. It seems to me to be enough coverage to make it a sufficiently notable topic to include in the article, somewhere (Reactions?). Levivich (talk) 19:44, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

How would you word it? I read ephemerous violent rhetorics and body language, marginal recuperation attempts by the underbelly of the 1% far-out extremists. Not wishing to minimize, but I see no behaviour significant enough to raise the antisemitism alarm specifically. Maybe in connection with racism, homophobia and Islamophobia, (also anti-government conspiracy theorists [28]) but I struggle to distill a blurb. Haters must hate and the stupid must be stupid. I think it's worth about 1 kilobyte... that's about one sentence with two references. Can you propose something? As possible acts of antisemitism, I count two photographs of banners, a "notorious anti-Semite" who "was photographed as the face of the protests before journalists later recognized him" (the so-called "accidental" Paris Match cover – paramount sensationalism), the support from a known "comic" and one reported verbal attack. For further perspective, the added source claims that the co-optation (recuperation) is far worse in the spin-off countries. In France, 10 civilians were killed, thousands were injured, of which more than 1,000 police, billions of euros of economic damage were sustained and not one of these victims is mentioned anywhere as being a victim because of being a Jew. Wakari07 (talk) 22:20, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

The way I see it, what's notable about this is a perception, more than a reality: that is, not that yellow vests are antisemitic, but that there is some commentary about attempted co-optation of the movement by antisemites. This commentary is from not only Israeli and Jewish media outlets (Haaretz, Jewish Voice, Jewish Star), but also notable publications inside and outside of France (The Local in Fr., The Times in UK, TNR in US). About this commentary, I agree no more than one sentence is WP:DUE, such as: "Some media outlets have published reports of attempted co-optation of the yellow vests movement by antisemitic groups.(ref)".

I think this a part of a larger narrative of "co-optation" (kind of a loaded word) or "the diversity of political opinions among people wearing yellow vests around the world" (more neutral). My OR/Synth of the situation is this: the actual gilets jaunes–those French people wearing yellow vests and protesting in France–are a diverse grassroots coalition bound by common economic grievances (e.g., prices too high, wages too low, gov't not doing anything about it), not bound by broader philosophical agreement (capitalism, socialism, liberalism, conservatism, whatever). Meanwhile, everyone else who has a grievance anywhere about anything is putting on a yellow vest. So you have some right-wing and some left-wing, some pro- this and anti- that, inside France, outside France, all wearing yellow vests. I think the article should discuss that. The problem is, from what I have read, there are reliable sources saying "these yellow vests are pro-this" or "those yellow vests are anti-that," but I haven't read an RS that ties it all together, taking a global view, explaining the differences between one "yellow vests movement" and another. Until then, for us to make the comparisons I fear would be synth, and so we don't have more than the little tidbits to string together. In light of this, I wonder whether even just one sentence about antisemitism, outside of a larger section about co-optation, might be UNDUE. I'm honestly not sure about that, and defer to more experienced editors. Levivich (talk) 23:56, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Nothing particularly important about this comment, just felt we needed to stop adding white-space. ^^ I do find that MEMRI article you posted above interesting, though, just in how it focuses so much energy on Dieudonné and the "dumpling", a generic pack of which cost under a €1 at hard discounters, incidentally. This whole French paranoia about that gesture is crazy. My daughter told me a story about a kid raising his hand in class at an odd angle and being told that his geste could be mis-interpreted. (smh) Still, it's certainly not surprising that Dieudonné has whipped up a yellow vest with his signature pineapple. He and Manuel Valls have been sparring for years. A bit of context: as in many states in the US, calling for even the B of BDS is rather frowned upon -- [29] -- so it's not that terribly surprising that there would be a little steam diffusing through the mille-feuille given Macron's CV.

You might be looking for this article? (mostly about Canada & Britain, but it's got the word co-opt in it). . PS: Not sure if Going Global is a rubric or part of the title...

References

Unbelievablely biased wiki

Nothing on the anti-semitism, nothing on the fact minority citizens have stayed away showing it isn't a peoples movement it is a whites only protest, nothing on the political make up of protestors which have been mostly rural Le Pen bigots. Sadly it is the Left white-washing a protest they wish was theirs of the ugly side of it. Article is a lying propaganda piece. 96.31.177.52 (talk) 21:14, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Be bold: if you have reliable sources for your claims, then you are free to contribute constructively. Wakari07 (talk) 22:00, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

All depends upon what you call minority:

Source to deal with antisemitsm: http://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/2018/12/24/gilets-jaunes-en-matiere-d-antisemitisme-tout-est-a-craindre-et-les-strategies-d-occultation-sont-un-leurre_5401843_3232.html

This source is an opinion piece by fr:Vincent Duclert (es), a pro-Alfred Dreyfus Dreyfus affair authority. Not what one would call unbiased. Wakari07 (talk) 21:41, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

One of the supposed leader received by the prime minister, Priscillia Ludosky, because she is martiniquaise could also be considered as a minority citizen. http://www.guadeloupe.franceantilles.fr/actualite/social/priscillia-ludosky-une-martiniquaise-derriere-les-gilets-jaunes-513388.php

So at least one member of a minority group is leading the yellow jackets. Wakari07 (talk) 21:41, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

A member of parliament has also received racist letter http://www.rfi.fr/france/20190105-jean-francois-mbaye-depute-macroniste-lrem-noir-menace-mort-anonyme

There is no apparent link with the yellow jackets here. Wakari07 (talk) 21:41, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

There is also this Licra page: http://www.licra.org/gilets-jaunes-les-risques-dune-derive — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.199.96.63 (talk) 15:34, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

This is an opinion piece by the lawyer-president of LICRA, an anti-antisemitism organisation. All depends upon what you call bias. Wakari07 (talk) 21:41, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

Direct democracy revendication

Since weeks, the movement has been know all over the french media to be calling for the implementation of a law making possible popular referendums in France, which they call "Référendum d'initiative citoyenne", abbreviated RIC. See the page on the french wiki [30]. [31], [32], [33], [34], [35], etc. The article really should mention it.--Aréat (talk) 21:26, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

On the issue of whether the yellow vests support RIC, among English-language sources, I found: one from Breitbart News, not RS per WP:RSP (not linked per blacklist); one from Daily Express, not RS per WP:RSP; one from Dissent (American magazine) which is a "left-wing" publication per our article on it; one from Tablet Magazine which has been brought up at WP:RSN and I'm not sure what the consensus is about its reliability; one from France24, which is state-owned French news. Among the French-language sources, I don't know, as I don't speak French. Curious as to others' thoughts on this. Levivich (talk) 22:12, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

I had added this a week or two ago to the "origin and nature of the movement" section, but I'm not sure it ever made it to the lead. I've added a bit more on the history of this call for a RIC, both in that section and in Week VII. SashiRolls ^{t · c} 23:10, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

Well, I don' t know about the foreign medias, but in France there isn't a day passing without an article on it - the sources I included were all from the previous days, for example -, while the Prile Minister Edouard Philippe said he's open to it, under conditions. I've got no cristal ball of course, but it's a developing point, and I was surprised by the lack of info on it on this page. Cordially. --Aréat (talk) 05:04, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

Thank you both. I think it's indispensable that we stay up to date with French-language sources because the English-language sources are clearly not providing thorough or accurate coverage (unless somebody is setting something on fire). Without the contributions of French-speaking editors, it would be an impossible task. Levivich (talk) 06:28, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

Background, Context, Origin & Nature sections

I don't know if it's just me or if any other editors feel this way, but I feel that the "Background" section, the "Context" section, and the "Origin" part of the "Origin and nature of the movement" section should be combined/reorganized. Specifically, "Nature of the movement" should have its own section, and then there should be one or two sections for "Background/Context/Origin." I could see an argument for a "Background/Context" section (about the political/social environment in which the movement exists), an "Origin" section (about the beginnings of the movement), and a "Nature of the movement section" (a description of the movement and its political goals). Does anyone else think it should be changed, or is it fine the way it is? Wanted to see what the consensus was before making changes in case it's just me. Thanks. Levivich (talk) 20:35, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

I don't have a lot of time at the moment, and I trust you'll find ways to improve the article! I'm always quite hesitant about arguments concerning "the nature of...", though. SashiRolls ^{t · c} 21:29, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

The movement is a SPONTANEOUS political movement

Hard to say "populist" and "grassroots" movement, because it is still going on. We have to be careful. That's why i would say :" The mouvement des gilets jaunes is a spontaneous political movement " at the beginning of the article.--Stefan jaouen (talk) 07:41, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Liar, it is a racist LE Pen front action96.31.177.52 (talk) 07:48, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

False,talk : Jean-Luc Melechon supports the movement ! You should read the article.--Stefan jaouen (talk) 11:15, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

The English-language sources commonly use "populist" and "grassroots" to describe the Gilet jaunes. (As sourced in the article.) I'm not seeing "spontaneous" as being commonly used by the sources. I would say all "grassroots" political movements are "spontaneous", as opposed to, say, planned by a political party; this is what "grassroots" means. But mostly, my feeling is it doesn't matter whether I think it's "spontaneous" or "grassroots" or "populist" or even "French"; it matters what the sources say. I've no objection to adding "spontaneous" if it's properly referenced. Also, sad to see Stefan being attacked by the IP comment; demonstrating Wikipedia at its best. Stefan, thank you for raising this discussion here (and for your contributions to the article). Levivich (talk) 17:41, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

ok,Levivich, thanks--Stefan jaouen (talk) 17:55, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Reminder to readers

Thankfully most people know that Wikipedia is not and does not ever claim to be a reliable source for news. Be sure to read the disclaimers at the bottom of the page.

I think we need to add the on-going template. rt / bitcoin mags / news.com.au / capital.fr / Valeurs Actuels are all building Tahz San a soapbox at the moment. Spontaneity? Your call. ^^ SashiRolls ^{t · c} 20:49, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Agree about restoring current events template and also about not including announcements of future actions in the article. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go buy some bitcoin; I hear the price will go up in a few days. ;) Levivich (talk) 21:37, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

The photo "Résistance" was deleted. What is the problem ?

• 
  "Résistance"(in front of Arc de Triomphe, Champs-Élysées, Paris)

I think that this photo is interesting. The police was not far away. That's why this man was afraid. But he wanted to STAY and to be photographed. You can feel it through the photo... Or maybe a robot deleted my photo...--Stefan jaouen (talk) 15:11, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

@Cheep: Hi--could you please share your reasons for removing this photo [36]? Thanks. Levivich (talk) 17:12, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

Women were an important part of the movement

Women were an important part of the movement from the beginning, both in defining its objectives and communicating at roundabouts.[137] In the eighth week, they organized separate demonstrations in Paris, Toulouse and Caen. According to one of the organizers, the goal was to have a "channel of communication other than violence".[138]

What on earth is this? You are losing it wikipedia, how can a sentence like this stay up? Are women aliens? Are women not implied to be part of the movement in the rest of the article? This sentence divides up women from the group like they are another species, what on earth is this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.102.83.139 (talk) 09:33, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

If you wish to improve the article go ahead. I believe we need more talk about women's role in the movement in the "nature" and "origins" section, but have limited time to contribute. That's why I added those two references and the admittedly awkward prose. Be my guest, fix it. :) SashiRolls ^{t · c} 20:25, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

I'm not seeing how a sentence with "women" as its subject "divides up women from the group like they are another species". For example, "women wear yellow vests" doesn't mean only women wear yellow vests, nor that they are wearing only yellow vests :-) Levivich (talk) 21:19, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

bank run?

So, did this ever happen? Not seeing any after-the-fact English language coverage of any bank run or mass cash withdrawals but that doesn't mean much in this day & age...English-language media chient le lit in covering this movement, i think you would say? (my French isn't what it used to be, alas) LeviaThinMint (talk) 17:08, 13 January 2019 (UTC) '

ruée sur les banques and Tahz San are good search terms... (especially since the first returns les banques font leur ruée sur le Togo in addition to more ordinary results for people starting "bank runs".) My impression is that it was a blip from the cryptosphere. Who knows? :) SashiRolls ^{t · c} 17:22, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

My photo in Paris to illustrate act 9 was replaced by a photo in Nice from french article, without any reason given

Yv9RUEdeRIVOLI

There are already many photos from other french towns than Paris in the article. That's why the photo in RUE DE RIVOLI with so many people was very interesting. Moreover, there are black people, white people, people from India ... all together, some of them laughing... We are far away from the description sometimes given of this political movement...--Stefan jaouen (talk) 18:21, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Levivich likes this photo.

I agree with you about showing an accurate representation of the protestors including their diversity. The one thing I don't like about the photo on the right is that many of the people shown are not wearing yellow vests, and there's the empty space in the street. But I don't like "photo edit wars" either. Also, I really like the photo on the left, which was also removed. @Cheep: dialogue, s'il vous plaît? Levivich (talk) 08:40, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

thanks Levivich. I do like the photo on the left too. And i think it could be used again.--Stefan jaouen (talk) 10:33, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

I think the illustrations on fr.wp are done a bit better than ours. I've never really learned proper Wiki layout for images and so have been watching with interest as various layouts/image proportions are tried. Concerning Nice or Paris, I think it would be better to have images from *outside* the capital, simply to represent that this is really going on all over the country and that Paris is not the epicenter. I haven't gone out taking photos though so I can't complain about the lack of any from my area. ^^ The main "problem" with the Nice photo is that it was taken from ground level and nobody is looking at the camera... but that is also an advantage as we're not infringing anyone's droit à l'image if we use it. I was glad to see the Belfort photo back in the infobox. I get the impression that Cheep isn't that big on talking, either on en.wp or on fr.wp. Too bad... SashiRolls ^{t · c} 13:44, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

SashiRolls, the paragraph tells essentially about Paris. There are already photos from other cities in the article. So, i think that the photo in paris is far better than the one in Nice. We are not told about Nice in the paragraph. Moreover, "droit à l'image" is not your problem when you demonstrate. You want to be a demonstrator and that your presence serves your conviction. There won't be any problem.--Stefan jaouen (talk) 13:02, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

You're edit warring over a photo you took yourself. While it's always valued to contribute photos to Wikipedia, it strikes me as a form of conflict of interest to war over your own creation. The correct process for Wikipedia is Bold, Revert, Discuss. That means you added it, it was reverted, the next step is to discuss, not for you to revert it back in. So please, if it's removed again, both for your proximity to the content and for BRD, stop reverting it. – NULL ‹talk›
‹edits› 20:35, 16 January 2019 (UTC)