Talk:Menstruation

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Old discussion

I would like to see the following question answered in this article:

What are the known effects (health-wise) of sexual intercourse between male and female during menstruation, for both partners —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jvgama (talk • contribs) 17:37, 4 February 2007

The average age for an american girl to start her period is 12. Your period will stop around the ages of late 40s and early 50s. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Trinibear352 (talk • contribs) 23:53, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

does your period hurt? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.178.177.200 (talk • contribs) 22:56, 16 March 2007

I'm assuming you're male? Umm, not really but it's annoying. And it does hurt sometimes 'cause of the cramps. ― LADY GALAXY ★彡 ^Refill/lol 20:59, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Woman bleeding for a week without dying. immortal. this is a joke but wikipedia is not a joke website!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.104.58.107 (talk • contribs) 18:56, 9 February 2007

I think the inclusion of the expression "third and long" without any explanation assumes an understanding of American football on the part of everyone that simply should not be assumed! I had to do a search to discover its meaning. I get the impression even many Americans wouldn't understand it.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.42.196.69 (talk • contribs) 22:08, 21 March 2007

I am a Yank and at best would know that "third and long" is an American football reference. I likely would not have understood the metaphor. Mason1024 (talk) 15:12, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

Once you get your period you will suffer from a heat stroke. It has happened to me. If you get your period you are not healthy, you need medical help right away. Ladies,that is what 911 is for.

How long would be too long?

What's up with all these strange questions? -Lea (firebender talk) 01:46, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm assuming a females sex drive decreases during her period so when is it at its peak again? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dlgjslover (talk • contribs) 05:10, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Figure

I've added a modified figure to this page as requested at Talk:Menstrual cycle#Incorrect figure. Lyrl ^Talk _C 18:10, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Raspberry Leaf

Um, if the raspberry leaf is supposed to help relieve cramps, then would raspberry tea help? The kind I have is the Snapple brand. Thanks. -dancexwithxmexXx —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.160.222.253 (talk • contribs) 22:42, 19 June 2007

There is some knowledge available in the "Prescription for Nutritional Healing" book. and "this caught my eye': Should You Get Rid of Your Period? - MSN Health & Fitness - Birth Control 96.225.99.178 (talk) 12:34, 26 June 2009 (UTC) xsxixmx@gmail.com

premenstrual spotting

it is bleeding before the actual periods start.it usually coincides with the date of ovulation.that is about ten to twelve days before the periods.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.254.111.90 (talk • contribs) 14:53, 24 July 2007

and . . . what are you saying? Why are you sharing this strange fact? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lea the Firebender (talk • contribs) 01:48, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Picture

In keeping with the gold standard of wikipedia articles involving anatomy, I believe a picture or video of the menstruation process is needed for the completeness of the encyclopedia as a whole. Does anyone have such a picture or video that is not copyrighted? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whiteknight521 (talk • contribs) 22:44, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

A picture of menstruation in a medical setting (perhaps an assessment of pads to gauge whether a woman is hemorraging?), or a painting of something menstrual related might work. Other articles of graphic topics seem to handle images in these two ways. A picture or video such as that suggested by Whiteknight would probably be rejected as gratuitous. Lyrl^Talk _C 01:12, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

It's just blood...blood on your underwear. Have you ever seen blood? Yep. 17:24, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

There ought to be a picture. There's a picture in the semen article. Surely you can just get a picture of this, on a piece of carpet. 79.76.189.192 (talk) 11:01, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Go to Encyclopedia Dramatica. They actually have a good picture there. I swear, they do. Just go to their period article. ONLY...their period article. 70.119.54.117 (talk) 21:06, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Explanation of my edit

On April 11 User:Prestonmcconkie changed the description of chimpanzees from "close evolutionary relatives" to "genetically similar animals," writing in the talk section that "This statement is more correct without favoring either creationism or evolutionary theory. If the change made things more vague it would not be valid, but it makes it more correct, actually."

I have reverted that change. In fact, many more animals are "genetically similar" to humans than are "close evolutionary relatives" (for example, mice share a "genetically similarity" but would not be accurately termed "close evolutionary relatives" in the context of this article. --Neutrality^talk 07:30, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Anal cramps?

Does anyone think that someone should address the concept of anal cramps during menstruation? I know that I usually get them, and I've heard of a lot that have had them too. I think that this subject is really worth addressing :) Thanks.

When the body is ready to get rid of the lining of the uterus, it uses a chemical that causes the muscles of the uterus to contract. They are called prostaglandins. Women who have high levels of these chemicals experience more intense contractions and more pain. These chemicals have been linked to vomiting, diarrhea, and headaches that can accompany painful periods. You can see that the anal muscles might be effected by the same chemical. WSNRFN (talk) 00:06, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

when do you GET ur period for the frst time? can u speed it up?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.229.147.37 (talk) 08:36, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

when?

when do you GET ur period? can u like...speed it up?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.229.147.37 (talk) 08:37, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Why would you want to? 62.30.169.155 (talk) 10:39, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

what the time between periods —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.163.52.115 (talk) 15:45, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

how to maintain regular menses?

menstration cycle often distrub usually late. how we can make regular —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.103.145.173 (talk) 04:17, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

"Regular" means different things to different people. The official medical definition is that cycle lengths between 21 and 35 days are considered normal. Lyrl^Talk _C 14:22, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

When?

Something that (I think) should be added here, is frequency. I came here looking for information on WHEN a woman bleeds. Is it a constant trickling bleed? Is it a bit here, 3 hour pause then a bit there? Is there a pattern to it, or is it just at random (eg. bleed here, wait 1 hour, bleed some more, wait 5 hours, bleed some more, wait 20 minutes, bleed some more etc.)? I'm thinking it's encyclopedic content, otherwise people will get the wrong idea on how it operates. 121.79.56.168 (talk) 01:55, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

During menstruation, a women typically notices fresh menses every time she uses the restroom. Toward the end of a period, however, hours or even a day may go by between a woman finding fresh menses.

Any information included in the article must be cited to a reliable source. I do not believe any such sources exist for the frequency at which menstruating women notice fresh menses, so that information cannot be included in the article. Lyrl^Talk _C 14:19, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Lunar Activity???

Lunar activity, weather and diet can affect when one may have her menstrual cycle

What, exactly is "lunar activity"? The moon pretty much is just there.Cadwallader (talk) 22:50, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Odd research

According to Japanese researchers, it may be possible to use menstruation as an alternative for bone marrow donations for heart problems.

• Japanese scientists close to harnessing power of monthly ick for Good (Link working)
• http://www.todayonline.com/articles/250126.asp (Link not working)

QUOTE: "Cardiologists at Keio University have found some success with cultivating menstrual blood cells alongside rats' heart cells and coaxing some of it to turn into (heart) material in the process... This process is still in the very beginning stages as far as human application goes, of course; Shunichiro Miyoshi... says they have yet to figure out why some of the cells turned into heart muscle tissue and not the rest, and how to make it happen on command." I may be able to find more sources if requested to do so. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 13:50, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't think the Japanese are the only ones researching stem cells from menstrual blood. Adding a discussion of how menstrual fluid contains stem cells would certainly improve the article; I encourage you to be bold and add it. Lyrl^Talk _C 20:04, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Menstrual Synchrony

I recently scoured PubMed on this subject, and there are absolutely no later studies that support menstrual synchrony. If someone with some time on their hands could dig in proper and annihilate this urban myth once and for all, humanity would be served.

Nerusai (talk) 22:57, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

I have the source, if you have the time/inclination to read it and insert it into the article. http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/context-and-variation/2011/11/16/menstrual-synchrony/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.243.117.53 (talk) 14:13, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Overview image

I have reverted the placement of a new overview image. I believe the older image is superior:

• The older image labels the later stages of folliculogenesis (recruited follicle, maturing follicle) and shows how the follicle turns into a corpus luteum.
• The older image clearly shows how the thickness of the endometrium changes over the course of the cycle. The newer image sometimes shows red inside the outlines of the uterus (as if within the uterine wall?), sometimes shows red outside the outlines of the uterus (as if blood is pooling within the uterus?), and the outlines of the uterus sides (but not the top) grow and shrink. However, the new image shows no clear relationship between cycle day and thickness of the red (the endometrium).
• The newer image shows a significant dip in temperature on the day of ovulation. Few women experience this dip; it is misleading to show it in a cycle that is supposed to represent the average, typical menstrual cycle.

The newer image looks cleaner and more professional, and I really appreciate the time that was spent in creating it. At this time, I prefer to keep the older image on the basis that it conveys more information to the reader. Lyrl^Talk _C 22:32, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Regarding the body temperature issue, the two other sources I was able to find for this (without doing in-depth research) both show a dip in body temperature immediately before ovulation[1][2]. What is the source for your statement that this is not typical? I'll request that the creator of the diagram fix it if you have a source for the information. Regarding the quality of the diagram, I personally think the newer diagram is better for several reasons:

1. The old diagram failed to mention the uterine phases (menstruation, proliferative phase, and secretory phase)
2. The new diagram shows where the two phases take place with respect to the reproductive organs
3. The new diagram is much easier to read at small sizes
4. The new diagram uses the standard Wikipedia color palette and is graphically much cleaner
5. The new diagram is SVG and thus can be scaled to any size

Is there any way that the good qualities of the old diagram could be incorporated into the new one? Kaldari (talk) 23:57, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Pages 150 and 306 of the 2nd edition of Toni Weschler's Taking Charge of Your Fertility state that few women experience pre-ovulatory temperature dips.

Menstruation is labeled on the old diagram, and is also graphically visible in the declining thickness of the endometrium. If I understand your usage correctly, you are defining proliferative phase as "follicular - menstruation" and secretory phase as "luteal - ischemic"? If so, there is a large overlap between the days included in follicular and proliferative, and the days included in luteal and secretory. I'm not convinced that the reader gains significant value from having both labels on the diagram.

I agree that having a drawing of a uterus and ovaries is a nice feature of the newer diagram. Unfortunately, the graphics of the newer diaphragm convey significantly less information about how the ovarian follicle and endometrium change across the menstrual cycle.

I agree about the ease of reading/color palette/image format being improved with the newer version. Your suggestion of changing the newer image to include information from the older one is the best solution. Until then, I would like to see the older image used because of the larger amount of information it conveys. Lyrl^Talk _C 00:30, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Using the old diagram for now is fine with me. The phases issue is complicated. Different sources use different sets of phases and the definitions are inconsistent. The only phases that are consistently defined across all the sources I've seen (scientific and popular) are the follicular and luteal phases. These are sometimes called the "ovarian phases". The other phases are sometimes called the "uterine phases". The uterine phases are defined inconsistantly. I've seen all of the following:

• proliferative, secretory
• menstruation, proliferative, secretory
• menstruation, proliferative, secretory, ischemic

Although the middle one seems the most common, with secretory equaling the luteal phase in duration. Kaldari (talk) 01:14, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

BTW, I don't think the endometrium part of the old diagram is very effective. Since the only label is "Endometrial histology", I don't see how anyone unfamiliar with such diagrams would have any idea what they are looking at. It also fails as a chart in my opinion, as it makes it appear that the endometrial thickness changes dramatically on a daily basis during the luteal phase. It seems that you were attempting to combine a chart with an illustration, which doesn't make sense, IMO. Kaldari (talk) 18:00, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your patience with me - I've been getting burned out at work and didn't realize it would take me this long to recover. I have started a modification of the chart (didn't have time to copy the hormone graph, and the temperature line is sloppy) and uploaded it to File:MenstrualCycle3.png.

• I think I have fixed the issue of endometrial thickness changing during the luteal phase; I'm not sure about the color, though. Perhaps a grayscale would be better, as in File:Figure 1.1 Endometrium cyclus.jpg?
• "Ovarian cycle" and "Uterine cycle" are not terms used to describe the changes in those organs during the menstrual cycle. I think "histology" is more correct, but understand that is not an accessible term. I'll think about other labeling possibilities, and am open to suggestions.
• When I copied it onto my computer, I found that File:MenstrualCycle2 en.svg is actually a png file - the extension name on Commons is inaccurate. The software I have will not make svg files, either, so anything I upload may have to be png. Any tips on how to make svg files?

It's back to work for me tomorrow... I'll be back with more work on the image and a response to any comments within a week. Thank you again for your patience with my long absences! Lyrl^Talk _C 03:14, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Reading about file types on Commons, it looks like SVG files are rendered into the browser as PNG files. I haven't figured out how to look at the base SVG version of the file - when I have time, I'll try to look into that. Maybe I'll figure out how to make SVG files in the process.

In the meantime, I have uploaded a PNG file that I hope is an improvement over both earlier versions. I'll leave it just on this article for a while and look for suggestions/comments before putting it up anywhere else. Lyrl^Talk _C 03:28, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the temperature dip, according to this study, 75% of women experience their lowest basal body temperature within 1 day of their LH surge and 90% women experience it within 2 days of their LH surge. Whether or not there is a noticeable "dip", I don't know, as I was only able to read the abstract. There's also this illustration from the book Dimensions of Human Sexuality, although I have no idea how scientifically rigorous the book is. It looks like this study may be useful as well. Kaldari (talk) 00:38, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

File:MenstrualCycle2_en.svg has been fixed so that the drop in basal body temperature isn't as dramatic. Considering the statistics above, I think it makes sense to show some decrease in body temperature immediately prior to the LH surge, as this was experienced by 90% of women in the study mentioned. Also the use of the term "histology" in the current diagram is incorrect, as we are showing the progression of a cycle through a simple illustration, not showing microscopic analysis of tissue samples. Would anyone mind if I change the diagram to the SVG version? Kaldari (talk) 16:58, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Odor

What causes the distinctive odor of menstrual blood? 98.246.183.207 (talk) 20:18, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Misleading wording in summary.

"Overt menstruation (where there is bleeding from the uterus through the vagina) is found primarily in humans and close evolutionary relatives such as chimpanzees.[1] The females of other placental mammal species have estrous cycles, in which the endometrium is reabsorbed by the animal (covert menstruation) at the end of its reproductive cycle."

This passage suggests that species with estrous cycles, contrary to humans, do not bleed. But that's not always the case:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrous_cycle#Dogs

68.8.99.245 (talk) 18:15, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Confusing sentence

I cannot understand the following sentence at all:

Eumenorrhea expresses normal, regular menstruation, which is actually spelt mensturation, that lasts for a few days (usually 3 to 5 days, but anywhere from 2 to 7 days is considered normal).

No other mention of "mensturation" occurs in the article. Does the word "eumenorrhea" mean the same thing as "mensturation" (regular menstruation)?

Request a rewrite to make this clearer. Wakablogger2 (talk) 22:16, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Volume

There seems to be a contradiction between:

The average blood loss during menstruation is 35 millilitres with 10-80 mL considered normal;

and

Sudden heavy flows or amounts in excess of 80 mL (hypermenorrhea or menorrhagia)

I think the first one means 10-80 mL during a single menstruation cycle, but the second one seems to mean 80 mL per day. Perhaps this can be fixed simply by changing "amounts" in the second one to "amount," but overall, it seems unclear. Wakablogger2 (talk) 22:23, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm a bit confused by the source for the sentence on volume (its currently citation 3). The link leads to a summary of some current research in ob/gyn and the author refers to another study which actually established the volume measurements as follows: "The excellent studies by Scandinavian workers over several years have confirmed that normal menstrual blood loss has a mean volume of 30-40 mL (Fig.1). The range of normal menstrual blood loss is typically 10-80 mL."

As far as I can see though, there is no actual citation of where these studies by the Scandanavians are located. I'm going to have a look around for some other journal articles but I don't think this link qualifies as valid citation. 194.81.199.35 (talk) 15:01, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Please do not confuse menstrual flow and menstrual blood, menstrual flow is the "flow" or "fluid" expelled during menstruation, and it is composed by blood (aprox 50% in volume) and many other components.Pedro Lamo (talk) 15:41, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Can we remove the leading picture

I think that it does not show the best image of menstruation possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.53.248.76 (talk) 10:37, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I also do think there should be a better image. The current one features mainly a finger being inserted in a vulva, which also seems to be menstruating. But the image seems to be focusing more on the insertion (the first version of that image in Commons, by the same author, has a different body part being inserted... guess :-D). I won't do any edits as there is a mini edit war about it, with the original editor (and creator of the image) replacing it after other editors delete it for the past couple days. --Cmontero (talk) 16:33, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

i do not feel that the images that are inserted by Amandalu862 (talk · contribs) are in good intention. Showing a finger or dick inerted into a blood soaked vulva doesn't educate folks about menstruation. Arjun^codename024

menstruation taboo

Many cultures/religions have rules or taboos regarding menstruating women. One example is Mosaic Judaism. There is a new report regarding the role of taboos in modern New Zealand Maori culture here: http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/pregnant-menstruating-women-warned-off-museum-tour-20101013-16inh.html

Menstrual Superstitions

The Snopes website has a page about menstrual superstitions via this link : http://www.snopes.com/pregnant/menses.asp Ern Malleyscrub (talk) 10:33, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Rabbit estrous cycle contradiction

Under #Evolution it says “All female mammals have an estrous cycle”, but under Estrous cycle#Frequency it says “A few mammalian species, such as rabbits, do not have an estrous cycle”. I’m no expert, and I’m certainly not a female rabbit, but maybe the truth is that only most mammals have an estrous cycle? Vadmium (talk, contribs) 00:02, 28 February 2012 (UTC).

Changed to “most mammals”. Vadmium (talk, contribs) 13:42, 28 May 2012 (UTC).

I think that there is a problem with the words estrus and estrous that are so similar in English. Estrous refers to a type of cycles that occurs in certain periods of the year, one or various, while menstrous (cycles) are those that happen continously whenever there is not pregnancy. Estrus, on the other hand, is "heat", when the female ovulates and shows externals signs or behavior that indicates it. Rabbit females ovulate when they are mounted by males, and they are not the only mammal feamales that do it so. However the internal changes in their uterus, and the changes when there are not pregnancies can be referred as cycles. Pedro Lamo (talk) 15:35, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

I edited the section on IDA

I know it's embedded in the American societal understanding of menstruation, but there is scientific proof that normal menstruation does not lead to IDA (Iron Deficiency Anemia). I cited a blog post in SciAm by Dr. Kate Clancy (a biological anthropologist) and also a study in the American Journal of Gastroenterology.

However, I know the nature of the "experts" here on Wikipedia and I am fairly certain that one of them will find a reason to say my links are not valid in order to promote the false yet generally accepted to be true notion that menstruation = IDA, which is why I am starting this topic so that anyone else who wishes to edit the article can see where my attempts were derailed so they can do a better job next time.

Here's the link to Klancy's post on Iron Deficiency Anemia and Menstruation: http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/context-and-variation/2011/07/27/iron-deficiency-anemia/ 70.243.117.53 (talk) 14:18, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Women are People

I see that a recent edit changed one of the uses of 'people' to 'women'; I will return at a later date with sources, but there are good reasons to refer to menstruators and people who menstruate rather than to assume that all those who menstruate are women. There are transmen who still menstruate, as well as intersex and genderqueer individuals who menstruate and do not identify as women for various reasons. It's best to use the most inclusive language possible in a reference work that is as widely used as Wikipedia.

Also, please avoid the use of female as a noun to refer to human beings:

• “Female” or “Woman”? -- http://www.dailywritingtips.com/female-or-woman/
  
• Woman Versus Female -- http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/woman-versus-female.aspx
  

WGST490 (talk) 23:19, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

I agree with the main point—though “menstruators” can refers to non-humans too, not only people—but why is it a problem to call women females? Women are, by physiological definition, human females. The things is, of course, that physiology should never be confused with psychology. EIN (talk) 01:38, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Women are not human females; they are female humans. That's why. Adjectives are not nouns.
E. Kissling (talk) 21:10, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

WGST490 (E. Kissling), this discussion at the Human penis article provides insight as to why "people" shouldn't be used in place of "women" or "females" on Wikipedia in the way that you've suggested; it has to do with the WP:UNDUE WEIGHT policy.

As for avoiding the use of female as a noun to refer to female humans, that's debated...as even the links you provided show. And some people use "female" to indicate "girls and women" because only using women is exclusive when a girl is not considered a woman (even if biologically a woman) or when a girl isn't a woman by any means. Flyer22 (talk) 21:35, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Menstruation and Sex, addition

I added the section about menstruation and sex because it's an important topic but there seems to be diffuse and confusing info on it coming from religious groups and blogs primarily. I did not address if risk of infection and STD transmission is also elevated for men who have intercourse with menstruating women because I have no knowledge of this, although i have heard that it is true. More research required. Junzibelle (talk) 23:38, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Are menses toxic?

Loads of contradictory information about this on the web. The article doesn't clarify. Would love to find out.

By the way, why is this article in the feminism portal? Menstruation is not a political matter; it's a medical matter, of course! The biology portal would fit quite well, too. EIN (talk) 22:13, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Answer: no! Example of evidence: Yahoo Answers ZanGran (talk) 13:04, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Menstrual period shortening - alerting

Regarding the paragraph beginning "Sexual intercourse may also shorten the menstrual period. Some sources say that achieving orgasm helps the uterus contract and expel the lining.[27] However, it is more likely that because semen contains luteinizing hormone [etc.]"

This completely sidesteps any mention of safe sex practice, and is thus at apparent odds with other Wikibedia article contents. For instance, the article on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_intercourse contains an extensive paragraph on Safe sex and contraception. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DiscipulusMaximus (talk • contribs) 08:41, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Are you saying that you want the section to mention that sexually transmitted infections or pregnancy may result during the menstrual cycle while engaging in penile-vaginal intercourse? Flyer22 (talk) 08:53, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Gender neutral language

I noticed that the language in this article refers to "women" as those who menstruate. This unfortunately leaves out those who are a part of the gender binary who menstruate, such as genderqueer folk, intersex folk and transmen. Keep this in mind and don't leave anybody out! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.156.77.57 (talk) 19:55, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Whether you are or aren't the registered editor I reverted, with a WP:Dummy edit summary here, read what is stated at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Archive 37#Phimosis article again and gender identity, including gender identity at other articles; two important things that Wikipedia goes by are WP:Verifiability and WP:Due weight. Flyer22 (talk) 20:18, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Does anyone have an interest in adding more about the situation in developing countries for menstruating girls and women?

Is anyone interested in having a section added that describes the situation of menstruating girls and women in developing countries? Many are facing great difficulties with menstrual hygiene management and with prevailing taboos etc. We have discussed this here on our discussion forum and relevant documents could be cited in such a possible new section: http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/24-menstrual-hygiene-management-mhm EvM-Susana (talk) 11:28, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I welcome the idea to add information about menstruating persons in developing countries, especially since it concerns many parts of the world which is not reflected in this article. I am just not sure how to integrate these information. A sub section about developing countries seems a little biased to me, because white western-socialized people write about problems in "those" countries. But I don't know how to solve this problem. Therefore I'd rather add such a sub section that not doing it. How about a sub section about "menstrual hygiene" instead do "developing countries"? Mll mitch (talk) 07:42, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

May I suggest the subsection is called "menstrual management"? Then the "products" section can go inside it, and other practices that don't use "products", as may be found in developing countries, also go alongside. I want to contribute information that doesn't neatly fit in the current format. ZanGran (talk) 17:13, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Can we make this article into a semi-protected article?

This article seems to attract quite a bit of vandalism, which is a waste of time for all of us. Can we therefore make it into a semi-protected article that only auto-confirmed uses can edit directly? I don't know how to add such a protection level to an article. Does anyone know how to go about this? I read through this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Protection_policy#Semi-protection and found that this should be added:

EvM-Susana (talk) 12:21, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Not done: requests for increases to the page protection level should be made at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 13:20, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

OK, have made the request there. Thanks. EvM-Susana (talk) 13:38, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Blood of the Moon:Linguistic and mythological roots of menstruation

I read this interesting article about the history of menstruation; I think there's a lot of good stuff here about the origins of different words; let me know what you think.

Originally menstruation had the additional meanings of, 'sacred,' 'forbidden,' 'magic' and 'woman's friend'; Hebrew origin of 'to damn', 'dama' means mother's blood. Maria Gimbutas points out in her book, The Goddesses and Gods of Old Europe: Myths and Cult Images, that vessels, and chalices resembling depictions of the Holy Grail once held menstrual blood that was offered to goddesses during special ceremonies. Around the world, women retreated to moon lodges to spend that time in seclusion, or in the company of other menstruating women. Cultures such as the Mohave Indians, young girls at puberty were said to have prophetic dreams around menstruation. Other cultures feared menstruation, believing it could rot fruit, taint meat and sour wine. Young girls at menarche in some parts of the world are forbidden from looking at the stars, lest they fall down from the sky.Practitioners of the Tantric faith drink the 'ritu', or the menstrual blood of the'Devi'; In other regions in India, adherents wrap red cloth around a symbolic statue of the vulva or 'yoni.' The word 'ritu', meaning menstrual blood, became the root of the word ritual.

Anthropologists think that that menstruation helped develop culture. Menstrual synchrony is a phenomenon linked to the secretion of pheromones and is assisted by nocturnal moon light. In modern society artificial light, the birth control pill and other factors have served to dampen this effect.

There is an island called Wogeo in New Guinea, which is known as The Island of Menstruating Men, in which men make a symbolic incision in their penises, wrap themselves in leaves, and retreat to a 'menstrual hut' for men only (at the other side of the island from the women's menstrual hut') until their penis heals. Like the women, they are not permitted to engage in regular activity, eat regular food, or speak louder than a whisper. Men on Wogeo 'fake menstruate' when they are sick, when a relative is ill or has died, and when anything else happens out of the norm. Evidently the men don't like this custom, but they say they have no choice; when there's trouble in the air, the only thing that will resolve it is a little menstruation. Young women in Australia would paint their mouths red with ocher for puberty rituals, a custom that may have evolved into the fashion of adult women wearing red lipstick. Bullets and Bracelets (talk) 15:20, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

If that's really what this article says, I would discard it as an unreliable source. I don't know who this Beth Richards is (I find a poet by that name on GBooks, is that her?), but she doesn't seem to be an expert in linguistics.

I also found this blog post, which is apparently an adaptation of the article you found, and doesn't make quite the bold claims you're inserting in various articles. QVVERTYVS (hm?) 15:56, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 August 2015

may I add under suggested reading: Shapley M, Jordan K, Croft PR: An epidemiological survey of symptoms of menstrual loss in the community. British Journal of General Practice 2004, 54:359-363. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text | PubMed Central Full Text OpenURL http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15113519 and Menstrual bleeding patterns: A community-based cross-sectional study among women aged 18-45 years in Southern Brazil Iná S Santos*, Gicele C Minten, Neiva CJ Valle, Giovana C Tuerlinckx, Alessandra B Silva, Guilherme AR Pereira and Joaquim F Carriconde BMC Women's Health 2011, 11:26 doi:10.1186/1472-6874-11-26 http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6874/11/26

These two studies give helpful information about typical menstrual patterns in two different countries, Brazil and England.

May I propose that the "products" section becomes a subsection of "menstrual management", which could then include management that does not employ "products".

Also, under "menstrual management" perhaps show the absorption, collection or isolation of menses as just one aspect of "management" (which is where "products" come in), with other aspects including disposal, laundry and bathing; pain management; regulation; there are probably several other aspects too. ZanGran (talk) 18:01, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

I have changed the heading from "menstrual products" to "menstrual hygiene". I think that's better. I prefer not to add those two articles under further reading but - if they are important - to rather cite them in the text. Please suggest where and how? I like your thoughts about "menstrual management" - please also take a look at this related article: Menstrual Hygiene Day. EvM-Susana (talk) 21:18, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Not done: Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Inomyabcs (talk) 11:19, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

menstrual management (or "hygiene")

reusables

Menstruators often use their ordinary clothing rather than special pads to absorb menses. Examples are "double skirts" worn in Laos , black shorts over underwear in the Philippines , saris in India . In many places menstruators wash the genitals frequently during the day: eg the Laos example above includes reference to frequent river bathing; African schoolgirls carry water to school to wash themselves ; it is common for toilets in Islamic countries, in Japan, in India to include a water hose for washing the anal and genital area, and for people to carry water for the same purpose. Animal pelt may be adapted for use to absorb menses .ZanGran (talk) 14:22, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Good points. The question is where should this kind of information be added? I would suggest perhaps just in one sentence here and then rather link to the article on Menstrual hygiene day where details of the situation in developing countries might be better placed? One could also argue that a separate article on menstrual hygiene might be warrented. In any case, I think we don't need to go into all the details here on the page of menstruation. What do you think? EvM-Susana (talk) 13:45, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Order of content in the lead

This article is about menstruation. Thus IMO the first sentence should be the definition followed by the "normal" symptoms. Than its frequency. The menstrual cycle has its own article however a short overview should occur here but not first. The last paragraph than discusses some abnormal conditions and other animals. The layout somewhat matches that of of WP:MEDMOS. We should also keep it to 4 paragraphs per WP:LEAD. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 14:40, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Intro edits

Please explain why the second sentence an encyclopedia article on menstruation is "Up to 80% of women report having some symptoms prior to menstruation." It seems to me the intro, which should be an overview of the subject, should start with an explanation of menstruation's function, with common problems discussed after in the into.--agr (talk) 19:42, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

I entirely agree (but my last attempt to fix this, like yours, was promptly reverted). Menstruation is a natural bodily function, as natural as breathing, or digestion; it is not an abnormal medical condition with "symptoms". True, it's often accompanied by a degree of discomfort and other problems, and those should be mentioned, probably in the lede; but not in the first paragraph, or at least not the second sentence. The first paragraph should comprise an extended (though still succinct) definition: what menstruation is, why it happens, where it fits into the reproductive cycle. The problems and their symptoms are a peripheral matter, which belong further down the page. Eric Pode lives (talk) 21:14, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

The first sentence is a definition of what menstruation is "Menstruation, also known as a period or monthly, is the regular discharge of blood and mucosal tissue from the inner lining of the uterus through the vagina." The next bit is the symptoms that commonly / usually occur around menstruation in most women. As they are more or less normal and do not interfere with life most of the time they are not really "problems" just as feeling tired at night is not a "problem" Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:30, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

As a person who regularly menstruates, I'd definitely call PMS "symptoms". For chrissakes, I cried last night because cats are just so good and cute. Thanks, uterus. But seriously, despite being natural and normal, PMS often comes with pain, irritability, bloating, etc, all of which I'd classify as symptoms. I think a wording of something like "Up to 80% of people report having some symptoms of premenstrual syndrome prior to menstruation." would be entirely appropriate. Keilana (talk) 02:18, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

No one is disagreeing that the "Up to 80% of people report having some symptoms ..." sentence belongs in the introduction section. My argument is that it should not be the second sentence. As an encyclopedia Wikipedia should do more than just give the dictionary definition of the term in the lede, it should give the context, in this case menstruation's role in the reproductive system, before getting into specifics such as secondary symptoms. Please compare the current version with the edits I made: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Menstruation&oldid=692712315 --agr (talk) 17:23, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Frequency

Why was this removed from the lead " The typical length of time between the first day of one period and the first day of the next is 21 to 45 days in young women and 21 to 31 days in adults (an average of 28 days)." Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 04:25, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Might need semi-protection?

Thank you to the editors who recently repeatedly removed vandalism content from this page! I just wonder if we should apply for semi-protection for this page to save ourselves time needed for reverting such vandalism? It is sadly one of those topics (like toilets) that attracts vandalism. EvMsmile (talk) 04:22, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

the page has now been semi-protected (hopefully for an indefinite time) - great, thanks! EvMsmile (talk) 14:11, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Information and link to Premenstrual syndrome article

I am a a bit confused how we link here to the article on Premenstrual syndrome. We start with a heading on "health effects" which I already think may not fit too well. Then we put there See also (or "further information") and link to Premenstrual syndrome. If the rest that follows is all related to PMS, why don't we rather shorten it, as there is a detailed article on PMS alone. If it is not 1:1 related then it should be made clearer what the difference is between health effects and PMS. PMS is only mentioned in one sentence in that whole section which is also confusing. Putting "health effects" as the heading and then describing only "problems" that women are experiencing in connection with menstruation seems odd to me. I mean it is not really affecting women's "health" as such, rather their well-being? And it should also not be forgotten, that many women just "breeze through" their menstruation, whereas here we only speak of the potential problems - starting with "Many women experience painful cramps, also known as dysmenorrhea, during menstruation." - no source given, no number given what is "many". EvMsmile (talk) 22:56, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Is a citation really needed for many women experiencing painful cramps? Agreed, though, that "health effects" aren't limited to problems, as surely many women would agree.  ;) Mason1024 (talk) 16:35, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

overlapping info with menstrual cycle page

i am a bit confused as to why there is a Menstruation page and a Menstrual Cycle page, as they contain nearly the same information. however, if WP is going to have 2 separate pages, then the Intro of this page needs to be re-written. i see, on this Talk page, that many people have requested/recommended quite specific changes to the Intro. none of which have been done; or none of which have been allowed to remain. of course, if the changes were made and then reverted, there was NO discussion on this Talk page about the reversions. since the same changes were requested/recommended over time by multiple people, i wonder if this page is being trolled. i see that there has also been more than one request for this page to have semi-protected status. yet, for some reason, that hasn't occurred. i've read that there is a strong undercurrent of sexism on WP. maybe this is an example of that? the fact that recommended changes aren't made or are reverted without discussion?

at any rate, i'm willing to help re-write this page, and/or re-write this page AND the Menstrual Cycle page, and/or combine the 2; but i'm not going to waste my time on it, with the history of this page being that significant changes are reverted, without discussion.Colbey84 (talk) 07:55, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

I have put up a request for semi protection on the admin page now. I actually think that we had this page semi-protected in the past - probably it's expired. I think the protection status needs to be renewed (does anyone know where to check for past semi-protection periods?). I agree that there seems to be a lot of overlap with the page on menstrual cycle. It would be quite hard to fix that though, wouldn't it? We'd have to agree perhaps that menstrual cycle should only deal with the biology of things, whereas menstruation also deals with the whole cultural and psychological issues? And I haven't had the feeling that the page is being "trolled" or that signification changes are reverted, at least not recently (I've been watching this page for a year or so). So I think your edits would in principle be welcome, but I think if they involves major changes we should discuss them here first and the changes should be made slowly, bit by bit, not all at once. EvMsmile (talk) 11:25, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

note: my semi protection request has already been granted now. EvMsmile (talk) 14:14, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

See Also

probably, Menstrual Cycle should be included here (since it's a separate page).

but really, my question for this section is, why is Niddah here? it's inclusion, without also including pages related to other cultural/societal/religious customs, etc. around menstruation, is...problematic. it could be discriminatory, in that only one cultural/societal/religious set of customs is included, or it could be someone's attempt to be disparaging towards menstruation itself. posing this question here for discussion.Colbey84 (talk) 08:02, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

I added Menstrual cycle and move the mention of Niddah to the section on Traditions and taboos where it is in context with other traditions.--agr (talk) 17:43, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Use of person instead of female "to be more inclusive towards transmen"??

This is something that has come up on the page of menstrual cup, can you please give your opinion on the talk page? It's probably been discussed on similar pages before. This is what I wrote there: Someone changed all reference to women or females to person with the justification of "Changed terms to be more inclusive towards transmen." Is this really necessary/justified? How about we rather make one references to trans men (do they menstruate? Wouldn't they take hormones to stop the menstruation?) and then after that refer to the persons as women or females, since the vast majority of menstruating people are simply women or females (whatever is preferred). Note the article about menstruation uses females more often than women (as it includes teenage girls, I guess), but does not use "person" at all. EvMsmile (talk) 11:14, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

I just noticed that a similar issue was already discussed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Menstruation#Gender_neutral_language - so the conclusion there was that it's OK to speak simply of males/females. EvMsmile (talk) 14:14, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 October 2016 about unfertilized egg in lead

Suggest adding the note in ALL CAPS to this part of the first sentence: "... is the regular discharge of AN UNFERTILIZED EGG OR EGGS, blood, and mucosal tissue from the inner lining of the uterus..."

65.37.85.49 (talk) 11:31, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

 Not done - we don't put anything in all caps - even if it was correct. - Arjayay (talk) 15:11, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

With all due respect, the IP is not asking for the words to be added to the article in caps: he/she has merely put them into caps for the purposes of this request, so that the rest of us can see what the proposed additional wording is. The statement is factually correct, but whether the words form a useful or worthwhile addition to the lede sentence, I leave others to decide. Eric Pode lives (talk) 22:43, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

I think it's a good suggestion and have added it to the first sentence. Let's see what others think. EvMsmile (talk) 15:26, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

My edit has been reverted for this reason: "The egg has broken appart before menstraution happens so no unfertilized egg per the ref.". One could therefore say instead "the remnants of an unfertilized egg". I think there is merit to point out the whole deeper reason of menstruation directly in the first sentence (i.e. an egg has NOT been fertilized, not pregnant etc.), but perhaps it would be too much and becomes clearer later anyhow. Opinions? EvMsmile (talk) 10:25, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

How about in the body of the text? We want to keep the lead more as an overview and simpler. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 19:01, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

In fact this is already (effectively) in the lede – third paragraph. The question is whether we want it in the first sentence/first paragraph. I don't have a form of words to suggest, but having thought about it a bit more, I think the lede para does need some adjustment to make clear at the outset that menstruation is a natural and necessary part of the reproductive process, and is experienced by all women. In the paragraph as it stands, the only hint of that is the single word "regular"; whereas approx. 75% of it is given over to discussion of adverse "symptoms", which strikes me as undue emphasis on an incidental side-issue. Eric Pode lives (talk) 19:37, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Normal and natural but not experienced by all women.

Have clarified the first sentence to "is the regular normal discharge of blood" Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 19:57, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

I totally agree with you Eric Pode lives. Already the second sentence of the lead talkes about "problems". I think we could quite easily improve the lead by just changing the order: first talk about what menstruation is (although here we have overlap with the article on menstrual cycle) and then group together the painful or annoying parts in the second part of the lead. At the moment, it jumps around a bit and doesn't flow logically. I could have a go at moving things around a bit. - by the way, this whole issue of negativity surrounding menstruation (and all the taboos and issues in developing countries) also is addressed in the article on menstrual hygiene day which I invite you to take a look at, too. EvMsmile (talk) 20:06, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Symptoms of menstruation are a common part of its description. The underlying physiology is more complicated and thus does better lower in the lead IMO. If people come across more complicated stuff early they might not read further. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:08, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

There is nothing complicated about these sentences which in my opinion should come sooner than the sentence about symptoms (many young girls will look up this article with the question "when should I be getting my period?": The first period usually begins between twelve and fifteen years of age, a point in time known as menarche.[1] However, periods may occasionally start as young as eight years old and still be considered normal.[2] EvMsmile (talk) 21:04, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Okay sure that is reasonable. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:25, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

The sentence in the lead about amenorrhea

Just noticed that the sentence in the lead does not fully match with the definition given on the article of amenorrhea, is that a problem? (I added the part about pregnancy and births (referring to breast feeding)): A lack of periods, known as amenorrhea, is when periods do not occur by age 15 or have not occurred in 90 days even though there is no pregnancy nor recent birth. EvMsmile (talk) 21:21, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

It is called "lactational amenorrhea" as periods stop during breast feeding. If you are pregnant you get amenorrhea. So "even though there is no pregnancy nor recent birth." is not needed Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:28, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

the thing is: each sentence has to be seen in the sequence where it appears. This one appears directly after "A number of problems with the menstrual cycle may occur." So therefore, the reader now expects to read about something that is problematic, like amenorrhea - but this is only problematic if the lack of a period is NOT related to pregnancy or breastfeeding. That's what I wanted to clarify. We might have to remove that sentence "A number of problems with the menstrual cycle may occur." - or connect it more logically with the sentence that follows. - Apart from that we need a citation for the age 15 and 90 days statement as it does not appear like that in the amenorrhea article, at least not in the lead. EvMsmile (talk) 21:34, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Agree good point. Amenorrhea is not always a problem. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:43, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Evolution of Menstruation

I think this section should be updated to include Suzanne Sadedin's answer to the question, found here: and here:

Basically periods are due to competition between the mother and the hemochorial placenta. The mother's body wants to restrict access by a weak or damaged embryo, and the easiest solution is to slough off the endometrium for every cycle that does not result in a healthy pregnancy. This is also discussed in a source already cited by the article, source 45, "Why do women menstruate?". ScienceBlogs. 2011. Retrieved 15 January 2013.

108.228.26.250 (talk) 05:46, 28 August 2017 (UTC) Gruenstein

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Shortening the section on traditions and taboos?

I am wondering if the section on traditions and taboos should be compressed and streamlined, and some of the content be moved to the main article on this topic. Most of the current content there is actually not referenced. Given that there is a main article on (even two) on society, taboos and menstruation, I think it might be better to go into less detail here and rather point people across to the other article more. EMsmile (talk) 17:40, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

How much information about menstrual management / menstrual hygiene

Recently ZanGran has changed the heading from menstrual hygiene to menstrual management. I think that is probably better. He/she also added some information about developing countries which I also think is good. However, we should think about how much detail we want on this page about menstruation on the topic of menstrual management. It might be better to shorten it and then to refer to a (new?) "main" article on this topic? One closely related article is the one on "menstrual hygiene day" but that one is also more about awareness raising. EvMsmile (talk) 13:36, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

The "Menstrual management" section is not that big. If it gets bigger we could move it to Management of menstruation and leave a summary here. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 13:53, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

It might not be so big yet but it could quickly get bigger if more content from the (so far rejected) draft article on "menstrual management" is moved across (although I am not saying that all the content there is fit for purpose yet, but just to give you an idea on where this could go if it's fleshed out more). At some stage, it will be a strategic decision how much we want to tell people about pads, tampons etc. on the page that is called "menstruation" (which should perhaps be focused more on the physiological aspects of this process?). EvMsmile (talk) 15:03, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

I've moved this discussion from 2016 to the end of the talk page as I want to add to it now. I have just removed some excessive detail about the various menstrual hygiene products. E.g. there was too much detail about the menstrual cups. The text should just serve to make sure people know it exists and what it is and then send them across to the respective stand-alone article. The main article about all these products should actually be the one called feminine hygiene. That one could be built up further to provide a better overview. But overall, I don't think we should go into more detail here; the 4 images we have now is fine, I wouldn't add more. I wasn't sure how to add the content about the new product called period-proof underwear. Might not be the right thing to mention THINX but we don't have a generic article about perioud proof underwear yet. EMsmile (talk) 18:43, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Sources

• impeforate hymen

Barbara (WVS) ✐  ✉ 09:43, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 March 2018

X = Saraswati, the Hindu goddess of knowledge, is associated with menstruation; the literal translation of her name is "flow – woman".

Y = The Godeess Saraswathi is not associated with Menstruation. Saraswathi mean "possessing water" from Sanskrit सरस् (saras) meaning "fluid, water, lake" and वती (vati) meaning "having". The line should be removed as it does not bring meaning to the content.Anantha subramanya nagaraja (talk) 17:42, 7 March 2018 (UTC) Please Change X to Y Anantha subramanya nagaraja (talk) 17:42, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

 Done The unreferenced claim has been deleted. Spintendo      22:08, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

References

Is this normal?

    Many thing happen when you start menstruation. In this article I will cover information to help younger girls that have started there period (menstruation). 
    After discharge. After discharge can vary in color. It may have a slight smell. Usually the color is a light brown. This is completely normal. Nothing to worry about. If it has a strong smell, consider seeing a doctor if this continues 2-4 days after your period had ended. 

Another thing girls tend to worry about is, leaking. Every women on the planet gets there period. Its nothing to be embarrassed about. If you don't have a pad, tampon, etc. Ask a teacher or trusted adult. They will probably remember there first period, and be happy to help out. If you have any other concernes ask a trusted adult. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Huxleyjenkins25 (talk • contribs) 00:45, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 March 2018

Under 2.2 Mood and Behavior: delete sentence "Rarely, in individuals who are susceptible, menstruation may be a trigger for menstrual psychosis." Menstrual psychosis is not a medically acknowledged condition. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Notoftroy (talk • contribs) 23:08, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

Disagree with moving the section on cost and tax

User:Doc_James: I see you have again moved the section on costs and tax to society and culture (I had moved it away from there recently9. I don't think that it belongs there. This is not about a cultural issue regarding menstruation but it is purely about menstrual hygiene products. Therefore, it fits better as a sub-heading in the menstrual hygiene products section (maybe even rather in the sub-article on that topic). Even just the title "tampon tax" shows that this is quite a political and "Western" topic. Tampons are used very little in many developing countries, e.g. in China. If more women used menstrual cups it would also become pretty much a non-issue. So as we are here in the article on "menstruation" I think it probably already takes up more space than needed (we should rather refer to the sub-articles). And it should be in the correct section, not in culture and society. EMsmile (talk) 06:01, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

We usually put economics and legal related issues under "society and culture". Agree would go well in the subarticle on the topic. Happy to see it moved there. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 06:24, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Done - moved to article on feminine hygiene. I wonder why people always try to add content to the highest level articles rather than to its sub-articles... EMsmile (talk) 12:52, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Sorry folks. That was me. I'm happy with your decision and will try to get the content into the right spot next time. Best, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 19:24, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Hi Anna Frodesiak, thanks for your note. There are so many sub-topics to menstruation that all still need a lot of work. Would you have time to help out there? E.g. the article on feminine hygiene needs work, also there are two articles on taboos and menstruation which I think should be merged, see here: menstrual taboo and culture and menstruation. Could I get you interested in involving yourself?EMsmile (talk) 01:48, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Hi EMsmile. I will have a look, but I have so many off-Wikipedia obligations that I tend to use my on-time mostly for China related articles. Thank you again for looking after that content, by the way. My very best wishes, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:01, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Disagree with changing the quality from B to C

User:Chiswick Chap: you have changed the quality of this article from B to C. I would say it should remain as B as it is very good in my opinion. You are saying that references are missing? Are really so many missing? Do we need to add more "citation needed" tags? As far as I can see it is pretty well referenced. Could you provide a bit more guidance what would be needed in your opinion to get it to B class quality? EMsmile (talk) 12:39, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

"Very good" isn't the criterion. Articles must be fully cited for a B, as well as being properly structured and well-written. I have added tags to three sections which are certainly far from fully cited. Chiswick Chap (talk) 12:44, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. I hope we can find the missing references fast. Apart from those sections, would you say it warrants a B? I.e. it is properly structured and well written, isn't it? Actually, the readability score is a bit low (only 37), we should work on getting this above 45 (see here), but that would probably not influence whether it is a C or a B. EMsmile (talk) 12:56, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Some of the content that you have marked as needing references is actual "general knowledge". E.g. what kind of reference are you expecting for this kind of statement (just as an example): "Menstruation is managed by menstruating women to avoid damage to clothing or to accord with norms of public life.". Also the section on feminine hygiene products actually takes a lot of information from the sub-articles where the references would be. I had already suggested in the past that we should perhaps condense this information because the information is provided in the sub-articles, so we should not really have to much detail here on feminine hygiene products. I suggest again: let's move some of this information to the sub-articles. EMsmile (talk) 13:29, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Move some of the content under "education" to "culture and menstruation"

I'd like to move some of the content under "education" to culture and menstruation as that is the sub-article where this ought to be covered. So I would just leave enough so that people get a quick idea, but the bulk of information should by in culture and menstruation. OK? EMsmile (talk) 05:40, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Breeastfeeding as contraception

This is not a good idea. Please add a relatively new source, soem reputable and good source from modern life, and change the wording so that young mothers do not try this.Toove (talk) 16:38, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

I agree with Toove. I have removed some of the text, please check. EMsmile (talk) 06:04, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Foundations 2, Group 8c Goals

Our goals include:

• Updating the section on "Menstrual Management" to include topics that make it more difficult for those who menstruate to attain products due to prices on products. Elaborate further on the difficulties that those who are in need have in accessing these products
• Updating the section on "Birth Control" to include how other less traditional forms of birth control affect the frequency of menstruation such as the IUD, birth control implant, etc.
• Update the "History" section of "Birth Control" to update the references and the current consensus amongst professionals on the effect of long term birth control use on menstruation and reproductive health.
• Elaborate on the NSAIDs and herbal supplements that have been used to relieve menstrual cramps.
• Elaborate on "Mood and Behavior" to include a more in depth explanation of the emotional disturbances associated with menstruation.

Francesca.alcala.96 (talk) 22:03, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Mvirk422 and Vivianle17, please stick to WP:MEDRS-compliant sources. No single study stuff. No WP:Primary sources. Also, per MOS:HEAD, make sure that the headings are presented in sentence case. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 21:09, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Foundations 2 2019, Group 8c edits (8b)

The group added more information to the article, including a section on NSAIDs for managing pain and expanded the list of symptoms that are often associated with menstruation. All points were neutral and were substantiated with accessible and reliable sources.

Dchnggg (talk) 21:39, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

The group's above goals were met using clear structure; balanced perspectives; neutral language; and verifiable resources. Xmrlmem (talk) 01:13, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Using the www.plagiarisma.net website showed no evidence of plagiarism in the newly added content.

Xmrlmem (talk) 01:24, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

The group significantly improved the article added paragraphs as well as a whole section including a Pain section. The goals that the group set were met and exceeded. The edits are formatted in a consistent way with Wikipedia’s manual of style. Docwoods12 (talk) 13:48, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

The edits demonstrate a neutral point of view and come from reliable sources (systematic reviews from reputable journals). The language that is used does not reflect any opinion and/or bias. Mquindoy (talk) 16:16, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

About using the blog post on dysmenorrhea from the website merckmanuals.com as a reliable source

My point of view is that this source is not okay and do not comply with "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources_(medicine)#Definitions". In details: "Per the policies of neutral point of view, no original research, and verifiability, Wikipedia articles should be based on reliable, independent, published secondary or tertiary sources." the source used in the article is not verifiable as it does not have any reference, moreover, it is not a secondary or a tertiary source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Walidou47 (talk • contribs) 14:29, 17 December 2019 (UTC) User:Spyder212 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Walidou47 (talk • contribs) 14:32, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

Suggest to copy over updates from Menstruation_(mammal) page

I made some edits to Menstruation_(mammal) page on Jan 26 2020, detailing the difference in estrus cycle between different mammals and the possible survival advantages of the menstrual cycle. I suggest that some of that edit be copied to the evolution section of this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.255.48.166 (talk) 11:55, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Trimming some of the details on poverty + menstrual products

I've just re-arranged some paragraphs in the menstruation article that deal with poverty and access to menstrual products; I think the section should be trimmed and content moved to the sub-article on Menstrual hygiene management, in order to avoid dublication and too much detail in this overview article. It's good to raise awareness about those poverty issues but the details are better included in the sub-article. Happy to discuss before I make those changes. EMsmile (talk) 04:53, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

Mention the term "menstruator"?

I know this is a repetitive discussion but do you think it would be worth mentioning the word "menstruator" once in this article? Just to mention that a person who menstruates can also be called a menstruator and this includes women, girls and transgender men. Perhaps if we mention it once it's helpful (but I am happy with generally speaking of women/girls, not "persons with a vagina" or alike. I am aware of that discussion..). I thought about it after I saw that someone changed the terminology again here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Menstrual_Hygiene_Day&type=revision&diff=961511825&oldid=959761363&diffmode=source EMsmile (talk) 02:30, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Mentioning it seems reasonable to me, in society and culture. Maybe this book might be a good source: https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/New_Blood/B1326g__TUECMvolz (talk) 13:01, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Moved some content about "society and culture"

I have just moved to here some content about "society and culture" which was so far in menstrual cycle. However, some of it should perhaps be moved on to culture and menstruation and leave a brief few sentences here. This also relates to the comment I made last year in February on this talk page (see two sections up from this one), about overlapping content regarding poverty issues. EMsmile (talk) 00:10, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Moved more content from menstrual cycle

If you're wondering why I have moved this block of text to here, please see discussion on the talk page of menstrual cycle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Menstrual_cycle#Society_and_culture_content_%28and_other_content%29_moved This is work in progress. Please help to remove repetition now. I also propose to cull down the content under "ovulation oppression" as there are other sub-articles that we should refer to but not duplicate. Anyone with an interest in this topic, please help out. Please also take part in the discussion on the talk page of menstrual cycle. EMsmile (talk) 02:29, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

I responded there but then someone told me I was on the wrong page, lol. Anyway... I reverted it because it was reverted there, so it didn't get lost in the edit war. Cheers! Mvolz (talk) 13:24, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi, EMsmile. Will you consider Wikipedia:Content forking#Related articles. We can't get rid of all duplication. The page says sometimes we need to duplicate a lot. LearnerB (talk) 17:47, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Changed the short description

I have changed the short description of the article, please see here. Do you agree? I tried to take away the focus from just medical aspects but also what it means for women. Happy to brainstorm to improve this further and get it right. It'll help us find consensus regarding what this article should be all about. EMsmile (talk) 12:27, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Culled excessive detail on mood changes

I am proposing to delete this part, which has already been deleted from menstrual cycle. It seems to be just primary sources and way too detailed for an overview article like this one. If someone thinks some of it should be salvaged please discuss: +++++++++++++++++ The menstrual cycle phase and ovarian hormones may contribute to increased empathy in women. The natural shift of hormone levels during the different phases of the menstrual cycle has been studied in conjunction with test scores. When completing empathy exercises, women in the follicular stage of their menstrual cycle performed better than women in their midluteal phase. A significant correlation between progesterone levels and the ability to accurately recognize emotion was found. Performances on emotion recognition tasks were better when women had lower progesterone levels. Women in the follicular stage showed higher emotion recognition accuracy than their midluteal phase counterparts. Women were found to react more to negative stimuli when in midluteal stage over the women in the follicular stage, perhaps indicating more reactivity to social stress during that menstrual cycle phase. Overall, it has been found that women in the follicular phase demonstrated better performance in tasks that contain empathetic traits.

Fear response in women during two different points in the menstrual cycle has been examined. When estrogen is highest in the preovulatory stage, women are significantly better at identifying expressions of fear than women who were menstruating, which is when estrogen levels are lowest. The women were not able to equally identify happy faces, demonstrating that the fear response was a more powerful response. To summarize, menstrual cycle phase and the estrogen levels correlates with women's fear processing. Examination of daily moods in women with measuring ovarian hormones may indicate a less powerful connection. In comparison to levels of stress or physical health, the ovarian hormones had less of an impact on overall mood. This indicates that while changes of ovarian hormones may influence mood, on a day-to-day level it does not influence mood more than other stressors do. ++++++++++++++

References

EMsmile (talk) 12:53, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

It's all more about the cycle anyway. LearnerB (talk) 17:48, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Culled excessive detail on eating behaviour

Same thing as for the info on mood changes. Too much detail and primary sources. Culled. Do you agree? Anything salvageable here? +++++++++

Women have been found to experience different eating habits at different stages of their menstrual cycle, with food intake being higher during the luteal phase than the follicular phase. Food intake increases by approximately 10% during the luteal phase compared to the follicular phase.

Various studies have shown that during the luteal phase woman consume more carbohydrates, proteins and fats and that 24-hour energy expenditure shows increases between 2.5–11.5%. The increasing intake during the luteal phase may be related to higher preferences for sweet and fatty foods, which occurs naturally and is enhanced during the luteal phases of the menstrual cycle. This is due to the higher metabolic demand during this phase. In particular, women tend to show a cravings for chocolate, with higher cravings during the luteal phase.

Women with premenstrual syndrome (PMS) report changes in appetite across the menstrual cycle more than non-sufferers of PMS, possibly due to their oversensitivity to changes in hormone levels. In women with PMS, food intake is higher in the luteal phase than follicular. The remaining symptoms of PMS, including mood changes and physical symptoms, also occur during the luteal phase. No difference for preference of food types has been found between PMS sufferers and non-sufferers.

The different levels of ovarian hormones at different stages of the cycle have been used to explain eating behavior changes. Progesterone has been shown to promote fat storage, causing a higher intake of fatty foods during the luteal phase when progesterone levels are higher. Additionally, with a high estrogen level dopamine is highly effective in converting to noradrenaline, a hormone which reduces appetite, therefore decreasing food intake. In humans, the level of these ovarian hormones during the menstrual cycle have been found to influence binge eating.

It is theorized that the use of birth control pills should affect eating behaviour as they minimise or remove the fluctuations in hormone levels. The neurotransmitter serotonin is also thought to play a role in food intake. Serotonin is responsible for inhibiting eating and controlling meal size, among other things, and is modulated in part by ovarian hormones.

A number of factors affect whether dieting will affect these menstrual processes: age, weight loss and the diet itself. First, younger women are likely to experience menstrual irregularities due to their diet. Second, menstrual abnormalities are more likely with more weight loss. For example, anovulatory cycles can occur as a result of adopting a restricted diet, as well as engaging in a high amount of exercise. Finally, the cycle is affected more by a vegetarian diet compared to a non-vegetarian diet. +++++++++++

References

EMsmile (talk) 13:00, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Again, more about the cycle. I can look at some sources to see what can be saved, though. LearnerB (talk) 17:50, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

This section needs shortening: Menstrual suppression with hormonal contraception

I would like to shorten this section: "Menstrual suppression with hormonal contraception" as there are bound to be good sub-articles but I am not yet sure what to cull and what to keep. Help! I am going to take a break now for a day or two, to let others review the work that I have done here today. EMsmile (talk) 13:17, 25 February 2021 (UTC)