WARNING: ACTIVE ARBITRATION REMEDIESWikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Antisemitism in Poland#Article sourcing expectations (22 September 2019):
"The sourcing expectations applied to the article Collaboration in German-occupied Poland are expanded and adapted to cover all articles on the topic of Polish history during World War II (1933–45), including the Holocaust in Poland. Only high-quality sources may be used, specifically peer-reviewed scholarly journals, academically focused books by reputable publishers, and/or articles published by reputable institutions. English-language sources are preferred over non-English ones when available and of equal quality and relevance. Editors repeatedly failing to meet this standard may be topic-banned as an arbitration enforcement action."
This is the talk page for discussing Holocaust victims and anything related to its purposes and tasks. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
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There is a confusion here, if this article concerns the Holocaust, the casualties of the German occupation shouldn't be included. The Holocaust is about genocide and not about war related casualties. It must be strict if not you can consider 30 millions death related to WWII. The Holocaust happened during WWII, but WWII isn't the Holocaust. The figure of 3,3 millions polish civilians that died during the German occupation should not be included has Holocaust victims.--Vanlister (talk) 11:04, 29 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
False definition
The Holocaust isn't Nazi persecutions but the systematic extermination of specifically the Jewish and Romani people, with other minorities. As part of this policies other people died, but other people weren't the target of the Holocaust.
The main source is about :
"DOCUMENTING NUMBERS OF VICTIMS OF THE HOLOCAUST AND NAZI PERSECUTION"
However this article talk for all victims of Nazi Germany as victims of the Holocaust, which is utterly wrong.
Rename the article :
Victims of the Holocaust and Nazi persecution. And the war related casualties should be differentiated from those victims, or at least there should be a mention of the problem to count people who died of Nazi persecutions. --Vanlister (talk) 11:11, 29 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
(1) Don't demand, ask.
(2) Please provide multiple citations from reliable sources which support your contention. Beyond My Ken (talk) 15:38, 29 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I can't find a reference to prove that the Wikipedia page has been wrongly written. The references are useful to prove that something is true, but it's irrelevant to try to prove that something isn't. I can't find on the article a reliable reference that contradict my statement. I personnaly think this page completely missed the point.--Vanlister (talk) 16:26, 29 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
If you cannot find reliable sources which support your contention, then your change will not be made. Your personal feelings are irrelevant. Beyond My Ken (talk) 18:57, 29 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Negationism or lack of precision
The article claim 5-6 millions Jews have been killed. This estimate is a fallacy. The overwhelming researchers and historians evaluate it to around 6 millions with hundreds of thousands of balance, no-one serious claim 5 millions people were killed. Today, the consensus is over 5.7, the range proposed from 5.3 or 5.4 is outdated.
Claiming it is between 5 and 6 isn't true, as the number is closer to 6 and certainly not 5, and actually it completely ignore the estimate range that go over 6!! So I am sorry but it's poor work or revisionism... --Vanlister (talk) 16:40, 29 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
If someone came here and said "Your article is wrong, only 3-4 million Jews were killed", we'd answer "Please provide citations from reliable sources to support your contention." You come here and say "Over 5.7 million Jews were killed" and we respond "Please provide citations from reliable sources to support your contention." That's the bottom line: No changes are going to be made to the article without citations from reliable sources to support them, and a consensus from editors on the talk page. It's useless to keep complaining about what you perceive as faults in the article (or in any Wikipedia article) if you don't come bearing citations to support your complaint. We're funny that way. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:42, 29 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 July 2021
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Please add a "Total" row at the bottom of the "Murdered" table at the top right of the page. Most other population tables on Wikipedia seem to do this, so why not make it easy for our readers? Based on the sources, the low estimate is 16,109,750, and the upper estimate is 19,618,500. 70.122.40.201 (talk) 03:06, 28 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
