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May 1

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Category:United States Government navigational boxes to Category:United States government navigational boxes

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was rename. - TexasAndroid 18:47, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Similar to other subcategories of Category:United States navigational boxes. —Markles 00:25, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Lists of films based on Location to Category:Lists of films based on location

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The result of the debate was rename to Category:Lists of films by location. - TexasAndroid 18:09, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lower case. `'mikka (t) 01:32, 30 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Moved from speedy aftr dicussion. Vegaswikian 23:41, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • If in film-making location = place where film is shot, I'm not sure how using "location" in the category name might cause problems...?  Not a film-maker, so thanks in advance for enlightenment, David Kernow 20:16, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • The category contains both "Films shot in <location>" and "Films that take place in <location>"; since the article titles make clear which is which, I don't think the name of the category has to be more specific. Her Pegship 16:13, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Actually around a third of the cat's articles are in the form of "List of Fooian films" - where it is neither the place where the film was set, nor the place where the film was filmed, but the country which made the film. So for example in List of British films we find Ice Cold in Alex which was set and shot in North Africa. Clearly these need to be in a separate cat and when I have a few spare minutes I will move them. (Arguably these lists are somewhat superfluous as there are cats for films by country. Valiantis 13:14, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:People in mass-media occupations to Category:Media people

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The result of the debate was rename. - TexasAndroid 18:10, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Media people is more concise and matches Category:Media occupations its corresponding occupations category. And being broader than mass-media it will allow inclusion of categories like Category:Photographers. JeffW 21:37, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Detroit's Five Major Avenues

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The result of the debate was delete. - TexasAndroid 15:48, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A bit too fine-tuned. --SPUI (T - C - RFC - Curpsbot problems) 21:11, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Dead professional wrestlers

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The result of the debate was upmerge. - TexasAndroid 18:12, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The category is too contemporary for an encyclopedia, and could very quickly become excessively large. McPhail 20:38, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Food companies of Africa to Category:Food companies

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The result of the debate was merge. - TexasAndroid 18:13, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Reason: It is complex enough devising a system to categorise all food companies by country and by type and this just makes things more confusing. Anyway, it only has 5 articles. Nathcer 20:01, 1 May 2006 (UTC).[reply]

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Category:Steel & Iron companies of South Korea to Category:Steel companies of South Korea;
Category:Refinery companies of South Korea to Category:Oil companies of South Korea;
Category:Telecom companies of South Korea to Category:Telecommunications companies of South Korea;
Category:Financial companies of South Korea to Category:Financial services companies of South Korea;
Category:Advertisement companies of South Korea to Category:Advertising agencies of South Korea

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The result of the debate was merge all. - TexasAndroid 18:15, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

[Lots of South Korean company categories whose format doesn't mtach those for other countries. Re "Steel and iron..." to "Steel",] Relatively little iron is produced nowadays and it is conventional to refer to the companies simply as "steel companies" Nathcer 19:24, 1 May 2006 (UTC).[reply]

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Category:Pro-choice celebrities and Category:Pro-life celebrities

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The result of the debate was delete both. - TexasAndroid 17:55, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

About five months ago, I nominated Category:Pro-choice celebrities and Category:Pro-life celebrities for deletion (See Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2005 December 15#Pro-choice and pro-life celebrities). After a tumultuous discussion, with heavy outside voter canvassing by talk page spamming, the debate resulted in no consensus, defaulting in keep. My original reasoning still stands: there is no intrinsic encyclopedic link between being pro-choice or pro-life, and being a celebrity. This position is irrelevant to their presence in the public sphere. At the time, I used Lance Armstrong as an example: he is notable as a cyclist, as a Tour de France winner and as a cancer survivor. That's what he should be categorized as. The fact that he is pro-choice is irrelevant. If it had been relevant, he shouldn't have been in Category:Pro-choice celebrities, but in Category:Pro-choice activists, or something to that extent. In other words: if celebrities are notable for a position on abortion, they shouldn't be categorized as celebrities; if they are not notable for their position, they shouldn't be categorized for it. Either way, these particular categories are unencyclopedic. Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 18:06, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete Celebrity opinions are not encyclopedic. Hawkestone 18:16, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete too bad Aecis wasn't around when we were debating the anti-war and peace categories. Carlossuarez46 18:35, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. Nathcer 18:52, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. Celebrities' political opinions are trivia unless the celebrities are also separately notable as activists. Valiantis 19:16, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nomination. I see no value in keeping the category. What next, celebrities who dislike potatoes? The only way I could see a celebrities' opinion on abortion as relevant is if they were notable or renowned as activists on either side - but, even then, they shouldn't be classified as "celebrities who are pro or anti abortion". They would be classified as "Pro or anti activists" and not categorized differently because they are celebrities. ExRat 21:15, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. --JeffW 21:41, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I can't see how this can be anything but trouble. CalJW 00:52, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. "Celebrity-hood" is a poorly-defined attribute and we should avoid basing categories on it. After a previous CfD I added the requirement that the position by the celebrity had to be included in their article, but very few articles actually provide references for their subjects' positions, or even mention them at all. -Will Beback 01:33, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. —Doug Bell talk•contrib 08:11, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. This is an interesting resource, but its encyclopaedic value is limited. I'd still like to see this resource somewhere, maybe as an external link? Crazyswordsman 18:55, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - potentially listifiable (which would allow better referencing/fine-tuning; "pro life" and "pro choice" actually represent entire spectrums of opinions, and different people have different views on which components of those spectrums are represented by which label. Unless the celebrity is actually an activist in this field, categories are inappropriate. TheGrappler 21:16, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename - pro-life actors and actresses was the intent of the original article. It is encyclopedic and notable; after all, the category was formed with information that was encyclopedic and notable enough to be noted in the articles that were originally included. Jdavidb (talk • contribs) 21:04, 7 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Regarding your edit summary: if a CfD results in no consensus, it's normal practice to relist it after some time has passed, to see whether a consensus can be found this time around. And five months is a very decent "gap" between the two cfd's, imo. Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 21:48, 7 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • I give you kudos for waiting; the last time around, somebody had it back up within a week or so. I'd still like to know what the proper way on Wikipedia is to record the very interesting and encyclopedic information of who in Hollywood is pro-life in the face of overwhelming opposition among their very outspoken peers. Jdavidb (talk • contribs) 02:12, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Wikipedia should do its bit to maintain standards in the face of the celebrity culture. ReeseM 01:03, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Willy Wonka actors

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The result of the debate was delete. - TexasAndroid 17:58, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Linking actors from random remakes tells us nothing significant about them and makes the lists of articles on categories too long. Delete Hawkestone 17:56, 1 May 2006 (UTC).[reply]

  • Willy Wonka is different because it's a film - or more accurately two films (neither of which are called "Willy Wonka"). It's therefore not a series and doesn't belong in the quite reasonable Category:Actors by series. We don't have Category:Actors by film because most notable actors who work in film work in dozens of films during their careers and this would lead to cat clutter of the highest order. Valiantis 20:37, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Regional songs to Category:Subnational anthems or Category:Anthems of subnational entities

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The result of the debate was Keep --William Allen Simpson 03:49, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This category is a daughter of Category:Anthems. Its sister is Category:National anthems. I believe that the category name should be in line with this. I also believe that the current name, "Regional songs", doesn't denote the official status of the anthems. That explains the anthem part of my proposal. The category should probably also be a daughter of Category:Subnational entities. Hence the proposal for Category:Anthems of subnational entities or, in keeping with the adjective-noun structure of Category:National anthems, Category:Subnational anthems. Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 17:41, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Scooby-Doo actors

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The result of the debate was delete. - TexasAndroid 17:59, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is just categorisation for the sake of it. It doesn't define these people in an encyclopedic manner. Hawkestone 17:33, 1 May 2006 (UTC).[reply]

An umbrella deletion was proposed on 26 December Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2005_December_26#Actors_by_series_and_its_sub-categories and there was a consensus to keep these categories. Tim! 18:46, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
True, but there seems to be some support for deleting on an individual basis. Don't know if another umbrella deletion would get a different vote. However, for many people, they are listed in so many categories that the categories are becoming useless due to the large number. Vegaswikian 19:15, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Can you give an example of such an article? Tim! 19:45, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Wikipedians interested electronics to Category:Wikipedians interested in electronics

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The result of the debate was merge. - TexasAndroid 18:16, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The categories should indicate the same; It appears that an error in the text of Category:Wikipedians interested in electronics caused some users to mistakenly add articles to a new category. --Mysidia (talk) 17:27, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Dictionary

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The result of the debate was Delete (empty) --William Allen Simpson 03:49, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Superceded by Category:Move to Wiktionary. It was populated by {{dict}}, which is now a redirect . Since the template is not populating the category, it won't be used anymore. SeventyThree(Talk) 17:24, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Science fiction novels by milieu to Category:Science fiction series

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The result of the debate was rename as nominated. - TexasAndroid 19:00, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This has been proposed for merger few months ago but removed due to procedural reasons (merge article template used). This mostly forgotten subcat (sfn by milieu) is confusingly named (milieu redirects to environment). I have a vague notion that the original author wanted to create 'science fiction novels by fictional universe', but it is not in Category:Fictional universes, so until this is confirmed I'd suggest merging this with sfseries category to avoid having this strange, confusing category.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 17:20, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

While you're debating this topic compare and contrast Category: Novel sequences and Category: Series of books ... the later of which postulates a series which one would not want to read the forgoing books within, so in random spot checks, I've found only a few meeting THAT test. This is certainly the opposite sense from the way the term is generally used in the various subgenres of Science Fiction, Mystery Novels, Spy Thrillers, etectera, where one would want to read earlier works.
Perhaps Category:Book series should be populated with genre specific category names as a supercategory for all such collections, but I have no idea how to fix and reconcile the two titles I'm noting here with respect to one another save perhaps to use the words related collections or some other ambiguous term. I suspect 'Bookseries' is a technical literary or librarian type of term as distinct from the colloquial usage.
But Common usages (i.e. intuitive understanding) on the part of our customer-readers and adding-editors needs be given a lot of weight, as I've discussed with Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus on several occasions at length on the large and rapidly growing 1632 series. I can see the 'technical' term as being fine for those in the technical fields suspected, but not as a general category name for users to browse in line with WP:Btw.
Merge per nom and Kevinalewis (see below). AFAIK "book series" is not a technical book industry, literary, or library term; it's used by the general public (but not as one word). We don't have a Category:Book series, but we do have Category:Continuity (fiction). Her Pegship 18:21, 4 May 2006 (UTC) (librarian)[reply]
I'd appreciate a bit of input here as well on the mild difference of philosophy Piotr and I have been discussing on my Talk Here (all 3 posts in the thread). (I've just archived, and most of the side chit-chat is understandable (or ignorable) in context. Thanks very much.
I've also asked User:Mel Etitis to comment on the Franchise name above from the British perspective. FrankB 18:41, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merge - however I don't agree that one is a dup of the other. Milieu speaks of the setting of the narrative, i.e. "where" it takes place. So it is really a 'in context' a way of saying 'by world'. However the subtleties of this are lost on most. So, merge. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk) 08:02, 4 May 2006 (UTC) Merge — per nom. FrankB 12:58, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Accounting Systems to Category:Accounting systems

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The result of the debate was merge. - TexasAndroid 18:22, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Duplicate category Category:Accounting systems already exists. J\/\/estbrook Talk VSCA  17:05, 1 May 2006 (UTC).[reply]

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Category:CAZA Members

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The result of the debate was speedy delete as recreation of deleted material. - EurekaLott 17:29, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Recreation of a recently deleted category. Bhoeble 16:48, 1 May 2006 (UTC).[reply]

  • Speedy delete Bhoeble 16:48, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy delete as per nom. For reference, here is a link to the previous CfD entry. --Maelwys 17:19, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • What's your problem Bestghuran This is the the Canadian Association of Zoos and Aquariums list of members. There is a category for the American Zoos and Aquariums list of members, which is the same thing and that one is in operation how come this category can't be in existence and the other one can. 11:00 Pacific, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Speedy delete I will nominate the American category. Hawkestone 18:17, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • It doesn't seem to exist. There is just a list, which has only been completed up to C. Hawkestone 18:21, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • I made it into a category and will create a page about CAZA, but the two above users have this our way or the highway attitude and just put this category under deletion out of spite, to show me that I am not welcomed to touch or create things, which is unclassy and unprofessional. The thing is I have actually inputted more info about this subject than they did and I even created two new pages, recently. They even do everything hypocritical like I am not allowed to put contact information on certain pages, but the African Lion Safari, which they probably created has contact information. 11:18 Pacific 1 May 2006 (UTC)
      • Not sure why I'm being grouped in as part of that group, since I don't think I've done anything hypocritical, or told you to remove contact information, or anything like that... and I certainly never intended a "[my] way or the highway" attitude either. When I came across these categories it was a major maze of crosslinks, circular links and backwards links (categories being subcategories of their own subcategories). I tried to clean it up, then found out that some of them (including this one) had already been recently CfD'd, and so were deleted. I wasn't any part of that decision, but I respect the rules enough to know that it was deleted as a result of a proper process, so can only be recreated by following another process, which you haven't yet done. You can't simply recreate a page or a category because you disagree with the CfD, or nothing would ever get deleted (because there's always one person that disagrees, or the page wouldn't be there in the first place). Follow process and see where you get doing things properly. It'll probably get you further than insulting other users attitudes. --Maelwys 18:43, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy delete as a recreation of deleted content. If you disagree with its deletion, Bestghuran, you should go to Deletion review. Don't simply recreate a deleted category, even if you think that it was a wrong decision to do so. Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 18:33, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well I am new at this, but at the same time when you deleted CAZA the AZA one is allowed to stand in operation and I noticed it four months ago and it is still up. Again - key word: fairness. Bestghuran 11:45 Pacific 1 May 2006 (UTC)
    • And they were right in saying that articles cannot have contact information. Wikipedia is not a phone directory. Also, there is absolutely no way any of the above users can be linked to African Lion Safari, from which User:Zzuuzz btw rightly removed the contact information the day before yesterday. Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 18:38, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Fine they gave me their reasons and I agreed, but they changed the pages I changed and the African Lion Safari one was still up until yesterday, they deleted mine fast within a day, a week ago. Which leads the question to fairness and questionable decisions. Bestghuran 11:48 Pacific, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Speedy delete Unfairness doesn't come into it. The question is whether it is beneficial to Wikipedia. CalJW 00:50, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Occult authors to Category:Occult writers

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The result of the debate was rename. - TexasAndroid 18:26, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Writers" is the convention in Wikipedia. Having categorised hundreds of American writers, it seems to me that quite a few Americans think "author" is almost a synomym of "novelist", much more so than British people do anyway, so it is best avoided, given that the clearer contrasting terms "writer" and "novelist" are are available. Bhoeble 16:37, 1 May 2006 (UTC).[reply]

Keep Regardless of what the "Wikipedia convention" is, the term used in the occult field is and has always been "occult author" and not "occult writer."

Check google with both terms in quotes: "occult author" = 9,240 results and "occult writer" = 844 results, a ratio of almost 11-to-1 favouring "occult author" over "occult writer."

No doubt near-alliteration is at the root of this convention, but there it is: a person who writes about the occult is not an oocult writer -- he or she is an occult author.

Comment Term set usage aside, as the one who created the category, there is a lot worse going on for me than your understandable ignorance about the term "occult author" and i really don't get it.

I asked three admins on #wikipedia channel to help me get full category status for my project Category:occult authors according to the best WP guidleines, and all three told me to "just do it" with the instructions they gave. I did it EXACTLY AS TOLD, INCLUDING USING THE TERM "OCCULT AUTHORS" -- WHICH THEY APPROVED, and then my husband and i spent a total of 21 hours creating new pages for the 19 occult authors whose names appeared on the static name-list but had no Wiki pages and thus could not appear on a dynamically-generated cat page, and then we went back through the entire list of 91 authors, adding piped category entries for each author, which took us another 4 hours, and then we went to bed satisfied that we had added a viable category with 91 entries in it.

Nobody thanked us. Nobody gave us a barnstar. But we were happy that we had made something useful according to the guidelines we were given by the admins in #wikipedia.

And today i see that the category is slated for deletion.

Is this a bad joke?

Somebody needs to explain this to me quick, because i really am not getting it. Why -- when i asked for help in creating a viable category, including telling the name of the proposed cat -- was i told by three admins to "just do it" and then, after i had followed their instructions to the letter, was the cat slated for deletion?

This is not the way to treat volunteers.

I take pride in my work and can perform well under self-motivated conditions wihtout praise, but i will not work when what i create is ripped apart as soon as i make it by one set of admins opposing another set of admins.

Catherineyronwode 10:05, 6 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Well, thank you for your contribution but at the bottom of every edit page it says "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it." And the proposal is to rename the category, not delete it (although I think I'll put something on the talk page about how un-newcomer-friendly it is to put proposals for renames on the Categorie for deletion page. --JeffW 13:43, 6 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename per nom. The relevant field is writers, not just occult authors/writers. ReeseM 01:01, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment JeffW, please don't patronize me. I did not object to having my "writing [...] edited mercilessly." I am a professional writer with 40 years experience in the publishing field and have no sensitivities on that regard. What i wrote was that i objected to having a category i was instructed to create slated for "deletion" as soon as i made it "by one set of admins opposing another set of admins" -- with the keywords here being DELETION and ADMINS OPPOSING ADMINS. I also asked "Why -- when i asked for help in creating a viable category, including telling the name of the proposed cat -- was i told by three admins to "just do it" and then, after i had followed their instructions to the letter, was the cat slated for deletion" -- with the keywords being ASKED FOR HELP, TOLD BY ADMINS, and DELETION.

Two points:

  • 2) No one has addressed my central point, or even recognized it, so i shall repeat it: If a person seeks help from admins and the first three admins who are encountered approve the term "authors" and then another group of three admins insists on the term "writers", it is obvious that WP either has an admin consensus problem or admin training and education poblem. I don't know which it is -- but it needs addressing at the admin level in order to provide those seeking help from admins a chance at getting the correct answer to a simple question and not some time-wasting pseudo-answer that sends the volunteers off on a wild goose chase, wastes the time of a second set of admins who must convoke and vote to undo the erroneous work that the volunteers made under the direction of the first set of admins, creates a sense that WP is run along the lines of warring factions rather than consensing adults, and makes volunteers sick to their stomachs.
  • 2) As David Kernow acknowledges, it is grossly unfriendly (and grossly inaccurate) to call renaming "deletion." That is just bad writing on your parts, as admins. Any editor could tell you that. Rewriting your templates will fix that problem, and i recommend it be done as soon as possible.

The fact that this is being treated as if i were objecting to "editing" is ridiculous. I am objecting to being jerked around -- first by admins who told me that "authors" was a viable category title when it was not, and second by a screwy WP template that says the category i created was slated for "deletion" when it was not.

These are administrative problems that can and should be remediated at the admin level, and i leave them to you. My function here is as a volunteer writer and editor only, requiring a calm atmosphere in which to work, with friendly and accurate admin help on call when i need it. And that is the last i have to say on this subject at this time.

Catherineyronwode 19:14, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:1632-verse alt-hist to Category:1632 series

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The result of the debate was delete (Empty). - TexasAndroid 18:32, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please see entry below, same case.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 16:32, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment on the above— The publisher (Actually author) doesn't have his marketing ducks lined up on the series and subseries names and Eric Flint is reconsidering these names in general. Baen has recently changed to Assiti Shards series, BUT! This series is but the first of the several (3 mininum) Assiti Shards series (Plural on series) in the writers pipeline. So altering terms at this time are contraindicated, though that would be my second choice after 1632verse. FrankB
The publisher is publishing books in the Assiti Shards series that are outside of the Ring-of-Fire/1632-verse, because Assiti Shards involves mutiple-universes, this does not pose a problem concering the labelling of 1632/Ring-of-Fire. IT should be noted that the characters from the books in the 1632/RoF series refer to the epochal event in the fictional universe as the Ring of Fire. 132.205.45.148 19:48, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge per nom. - EurekaLott 17:33, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment: I wish people wouldn't manually empty categories while there's a CFD nomination in place. I don't recall what it used to cover, but this category and the one below now only include one talk page, one user page, and an image. - EurekaLott 19:49, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • DELETE — This Should be Speedied — There is relavant 'Hot Air' on the Talk: 1632 series talk (towards the bottom, a month back), but only with respect to which name would mean more to a customer reading it; sentiment here is for shorter names which I think is silly as Cats are only one time per article text insertions, but the new 1632 series is fine. Somebody should check the equivilent Category: 1632-verse alt-hist which had been created at the same time as Category: 1632-163x alt-hist but by the longer and apparently renamed Alternative History, now Alt-hist.

At the time I was spamming names looking to keep 'the natives' happy, as 163x wasn't communicating much of anything to customers. (Woops- there's a redirect (163x) I didn't know about!)

Any article 'page' contents in these three are identical as it is, as I know from having created half the articles. I've been the only one working the series this past month until Piotr stuck his category-reform oar in these waters <G>; the only other interest party might be User:Wwoods and he was mostly agreeing with Piotr on the short names. FrankB 19:10, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
"alt-hist" is bad. It does not convey information to people who are "not in the know" about the series. 132.205.45.148
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Category:1632-163x alt-hist to Category:1632 series

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The result of the debate was delete (Empty). - TexasAndroid 18:33, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merge. Update to this old debate, as per the result of renaming of the first proposed merge category.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 16:30, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

* '''MERGE ALL TO''' [[:Category:Ring of Fire alternate history series]], as the publisher <s>uses ''Ring of Fire'' to indicate this series.</s> ...Pardon the correction ONCE USED on two books of '''ten''' 1632 books. (<B>[[User:Fabartus|Fra]]</B><font color="green">[[User talk:Fabartus|nkB]]</font>) [[User:132.205.45.110|132.205.45.110]] 18:57, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Let me try to clarify this: (inserted numbered italicized notes)FrankB

  1. ON STRIKEOUTS—For the below, Ring of Fire (anthology) is and has been around a long while; above, Ring of Fire was formerly used, and in fact is on 'two' of my (first edition) covers as well, but this is in flux as marketing was inconsistent— I trade email with Eric Flint about once a week— this is under revision. Bottom line, for our purposes Category:1632 series is best now. If they change series designation to 1632verse, 1632 universe, or go back to Ring of Fire universe, the time to change will be when they (Baen's or Eric) ripple whatever changes through Amazon.com and Barnes and Noble, and other publishers are all presenting these the same. When I last checked five days ago, the vendors were still in chaos with respect to the series; so this needs patience. We can adapt later if need be. FrankB 12:56, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Below for all, Category:Assiti Shards multiverse -- is a supercategory, with respect to '1632 series', as Piotr + 132.205.45.148 says, see the main article Assiti Shards series (series is plural); there soon will be a need for 'Category:1781 series' but there may not be a sequel to the other forthcoming (shakespearian) title. One author—three Assiti shards universes. Note: 'Ring of Fire' is a descriptor applicable to each Assiti Shards event, so is also a poor choice on that basis— it doesn't seperate the different multiverses. For now, the only thing needed is a single cat for the 1632 series, since Piotr doesn't like the long names, and no one cares for the abbreviated compromise names (see below votes), the last standing should be as nominated 1632 series FrankB 12:56, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Royal Air Force bases

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The result of the debate was Delete (empty) --William Allen Simpson 03:49, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

All the members of the category have been moved to Category:Royal Air Force stations where they belong. Bases are known as stations, not Bases in the RAF. Sc147 16:14, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Books available as ebooks to Category:Ebooks

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The result of the debate was no consensous. - TexasAndroid 18:58, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Too long and not obvious into short and obvious.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 16:08, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete Soon most books will be available as Ebooks I expect. This is a waste of time except for advertising. We don't have category:Books available in paperback. Delete
  • Merge both to Category:EBooks, which will display as Category:EBooks. The category should probably be restricted to those which are primarily availible as eBooks, rather than everything with an eBook version. SeventyThree(Talk) 17:34, 1 May 2006 (UTC). Added striking, SeventyThree(Talk) 14:40, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge both per SeventyThree. Her Pegship 22:52, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong disagree — there is a distinction, this label applies to works available in more than one media. What are you going to use for a category for books ONLY available as eBooks? Last time I was over there WikiBooks was up to over a hundred titles that will never see print; are those or others published by university presses in the same category as Fiction??? I think not.
As for short Category names, this is lazy thinking and editor behavior (no offense intended— a temporary convienience for editors not thinking like customers) and almost certainly contrary to the guideline WP:Btw. I agree that building a heirarchial tree inside the category pages themselves makes sense, but the short named philosophy is handcuffing one of wikipedia's strongest features for the users sake, the purpose of categories (not us editors, we have time to get one meaningful name CORRECT once per article.)— the category feature sets Wikipedia apart and way ahead of printed encyl. IMHO. Frankly, if it weren't for cross referenced linking I have better things to do with my time. The alternative is a lot of wasted space as See also sections (which someone will come along and shorten), or F**** the customer-reader by not giving links to other related materials. Long See Also's are contra-indicated, and won't be half as strong as something which auto-lists like these. So for the customer-users, I have to champion sensible category names which communicate something about the link.
As to the advertising issue — how so? We give customers who have (newly) discovered the eBook convieniences a way to find other titled ARTICLEs they can read, as well as identifying a specific uncommon feature of those works (This subset is also available digitally). Contrary to the unsigned post saying 'Soon most books will be available as Ebooks I expect.', Who's going to pay for the republication of the millions of old titles? I hope you're volunteering. You might want to read the 'Prime Palavar' posts by the Librarian on Baen Free Library. We'll all be dead and buried before eMedia is that common.
In reading over the above, I can live with Category:eBook Fiction, corresponding to Category:eBook Text and Category:eBook reference with Category: EBook as a parent category. So I recommend the compromise Category:Books available as ebooks --->Category:eBook fiction as a better planned forward thinking choice. FrankB 19:48, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I agree cautiously with FrankB, although why Category:eBook reference? The counterpart to fiction is non-fiction, of which reference is a sub-set. And what exactly is "eBook Text", please? Her Pegship 20:05, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I can see the nerit in Fabartus argument. I could also live with the current category, provided 1) it is clearly explained on it's page what it is for. I am a little suprised that we don't have Category:Books. Still, I think we should have different categories for 'books available only as ebooks' and 'books available in print or as ebooks'.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 20:12, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
There aren't very many articles in the category as it stands, so I don't see the need for a fiction/nonfiction split yet. I would say that we only need one category for now, and once the cat gets larger it can be split into subcats such as eBook-only and eBook-and-paper-book. Category:EBooks should be the parent - not because it is a shorter name, but because it is more general. Whatever happens, the current category should be renamed to capitalise the B. SeventyThree(Talk) 21:33, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Per Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk comment, we do have Category:Books. One of its sub-cats is Category:Books by type, which is where the eBook sub-type should go once the issue of naming it is resolved. Her Pegship 22:10, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Agree on the last. The Category:books available as ebooks is newly created, but I got bogged down in an unrelated project, so only added a few as I worked on my current 'Hot Project'. I added some ole friends in there earlier tonight and will systematically attack it next week, perhaps trying out this AWB tool. I think I also properly sub-categorized it wrt to Digital libraries but someone should check me.
  • re: "eBook reference"— True the converse is non-fiction, but that doesn't make a work a reference. I'm assuming, there are eReference works available on various University publishing sites, so I was essentially covering all the bases I could think of per my engineer's mind. It follows that eRefereces and eTexts are sub-cats of 'eNon-fiction' (Is there a direct way to say that which doesn't use a negation prefix?)... but that was my thought. I'm sure we can come up with a whole well designed heirarchial system if we try.
  • In fact, we use them in high school too. However, combining "e-" with a word for the book category is not standard practice (as in eNon-fiction) so you don't have to wind your head around that construct. <g> We (the royal bookmonger "we") just refer to something by its title and refer to its format as "ebook". Her Pegship
  • re: 'Her Pegship': And what exactly is "eBook Text", please? Now I'm getting WikiSloppy with Names! #$%*(*(*_%$$#$@$#!!! "eBook Textbook" will make more sense to the user too! Sorry. For example: One like this.
  • On the Capitalized 'B' in 'eBook'. See ebook... because of the wikified addressing, they dropped the 'EBook' variant, which is, iirc, how I originally saw the article. I noticed the link went through a redirect when I typed in eBook, so I avoided the redirect. I can go either way on that, but if we're keeping my original text string, I'd suggest letting it ride as otherwise we're creating extra work.
  • On clarity: I had thought I'd typed what I thought was a nice concise and clear explanation of what the category was for, so I'm baffled as to how to improve it.
  • Don't know that we need to make a distinction for 'book' works that are not ebooks — any book which is not electronic is just a book and everyone already understands what that means— the default and traditional, plus in context, the articles this will be included within are topics on the book, usually by title— the eBook technology is the new kid on the block, so is not taken for granted.
  • Apologies for not checking in here sooner.
FrankB 06:19, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't know the normal practices herein, but the original votes still seem to be 'up' sans strike-outs, and the compromise hasn't any direct votes, but discussion abounds. So does someone reformulate this and we revote, or is the matter clear enough? It's not clear to me whether the original nomination is still under discussion or whether we swerved to a set of proposals. HELP! <G> FrankB 06:31, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
People will strike their opinions if they change their mind, and add a new opinion. Hopefully everyone who put in an opinion is still watching the discussion. If new ideas have come in since people last posted, that will likely be taken into account by the closing admin.
On the title - all "Books available as eBooks" are "eBooks", and vice versa. They are the same concept. I still feel that there is no need to split the category until it is getting large. Once it does become large, we can discuss categorisation on the category talk page. Category:Books would probably be a good place to look for inspiration, but the manner of the split depends on which articles are in the category.
Capitalisation - the guideline says that the page should be at EBook. I would've made the move myself, but it's blocked by a non-trivial edit history on the target (see talk page). If the word appears after the start of the category, it can be eBook (e.g. Category:Fictional eBooks). Renames for capitalisation happen all the time, it's not too much work. SeventyThree(Talk) 14:40, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Fiction eBooks, please. A "fictional" book is one that doesn't exist (like Magical Me by Gilderoy Lockhart), and we have a separate category for those! Her Pegship
True that. Although it was intended an example of capitalisation where technical restrictions don't apply. SeventyThree(Talk) 01:54, 6 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Meanwhile, I renew the proposal as it stands. Her Pegship 16:11, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • ...and let me clarify that I support the proposal provided there's a nice explanation at the category page explaining which ebooks are included - I would prefer only works available only in electronic format. As it is, within an article on a printed book there is a section to indicate the various editions, hardback, paperback, audio, etc., so imho that would be the place to list an electronic edition (i.e. variant) of a printed book. Her Pegship 21:09, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete No use to anyone except publishers. ReeseM 01:05, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Swiss people by ethnicity to Category:Swiss people by ethnic or national origin and Category:Argentine people by national origin to Category:Argentine people by ethnic or national origin

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The result of the debate was no consensous. - TexasAndroid 18:54, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rename as per nomination immediately below Mayumashu 15:57, 1 May 2006 (UTC) Delete or Oppose per my comments on the nomination immediately below. Carlossuarez46 18:57, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:American people by national origin and Category:American people by ethnicity to Category:American people by ethnic or national origin

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The result of the debate was rename. - TexasAndroid 18:54, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Merge into renamed page as cat pages under Category:People by ethnic or national origin are named (as many national groups are also ethnic ones) Mayumashu 15:44, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete or Oppose these are tricky: does national origin mean born there? or does one consider that ancestry (no matter how far back) from such place (by whoever occupies it now? or by which country occupied it then? and does that hold true for those who were not of the majority ethnicity at the time?) makes it one's national origin. One's ethnicity may have nothing to do with one's national origin -- whenever we figure out what that means. Some ethnicities are supranational (Latino, Arab, Jewish, African-American, and any number of mixed ones); some are regional without "national" (as in independent nation state) status (Scottish, Welsh, Kashmiri, Basque, Navajo, etc.); some have no "nation" but are more than regional (Kurdish, Cajun, etc.). For some people their ethicities and national origins may be conflicted: Kemal Atatürk could be of Greek national origin (born in Salonika which is (now) in Greece); John McCain would be Panamanian by national origin; and Jackson Browne would be German. These categories need to be defined precisely to be useful; merging them only makes them murkier. Carlossuarez46 18:53, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
true, there are inherent difficulties in clearly defining what is meant by origin and some explanation needs to provided at the head of each cat page to explain what its list is of (and perhaps therefore they should be done away with), but the nomination here is what to do with the sub-cats that are out there. keeping two seperate groups - one for "ethnic origin" and another for "national" makes for a lot of pointless duplicate linking to two separate cat pages Mayumashu 00:40, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge into new article, named as proposed. This will match what is done for other countries and end fruitless and useless debate and changes over whether to place an article in the ethnic category or the national origin category. In any case, as currently structured (I worked many hours on all this yesterday), the national origin category is a subcategory of the ethnic category and do not otherwise overlap or duplicate. The category should note that all people are included who are immigrants from a specified country or descended from immigrants from a country, though this is really controlled at the sub-category level. The underlying articles contain the data on who should be included where. The tricky part is what subcategories to have and the multi-ethnic, multi-racial, multi-origin people, in any and all combinations you can think of. I suppose they should be placed in every category that pertains, but that is really up to the editors of each article. Also the Multiracial Americans category is either misnamed or misused. It includes multi-people of various kinds, not just multiracial--unless 'racial' is treated as meaning the name thing as 'ethnic' or 'national'--but this would be even more confusing. Thanks Hmains 02:46, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Mobile phone companies by country

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The result of the debate was rename. - TexasAndroid 18:35, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Group rename of the children of Category:Mobile phone companies by country

I can't see a consensus in children of Category:Companies by country, so I suggest Mobile phone companies of Foo. I've listed all the categories so that they end up consistent. SeventyThree(Talk) 15:05, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rename as per nom. There is a convention that companies should be "of". The two main exceptions - aircraft companies and automobile manufacturers - are currently going through the renaming process. Bhoeble 16:40, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, that was unlucky of me. Those were 2 of the few I looked at to see what the consensus was! SeventyThree(Talk) 17:39, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Cellular vs. Mobile phone in the US, if its understood its fine. perhaps the US category definition should include 'Cellular'? Ian3055 15:53, 6 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Modified screenshots of computer and video games

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The result of the debate was Delete (empty) --William Allen Simpson 03:49, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Empty, and no inward links. Past contents consisted of categorisation and a redlink to an article which never existed. SeventyThree(Talk) 14:43, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Philosophy by century categories

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The result of the debate was no consensous. - TexasAndroid 18:37, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The following categories need to be renamed for proper grammar:

—Doug Bell talk•contrib 10:06, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Query: Does the MoS specify when a hyphen should be used? I have to admit to being surprised by this choice, I would have expected that it is actually the articles that require moving?TheGrappler 21:20, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Rights of the disabled to Category:Rights of disabled people

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The result of the debate was rename to Category:Disability rights. - TexasAndroid 18:39, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I propose that this category be renamed in line with the terminology generally preferred by disabled activists. Talking about 'the disabled' is seen as derogatory, in the same way that talking about 'the gays', 'the blacks' or 'the jews' would be. Sjoh0050 09:53, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Municipalities in León to Category:Municipalities in León, Nicaragua

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The result of the debate was rename. - TexasAndroid 18:40, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

to better distinguish from the category for municipalities of the Spanish province, also called León (ie, Category:Municipalities in León, Spain). Consistent with other similarly ambiguously-named provinces/depts, such as Category:Municipalities in Granada, Nicaragua, etc. cjllw | TALK 08:08, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

agree ; anything that helps clarity is good. Thanks. Hmains 02:49, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Terrorists by nationality and sub categories with the word "terrorist" in them

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The result of the debate was Keep. - TexasAndroid 18:47, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I propose we delete all of that as per npov. It is not for us to decide who qualifies as terrorist, much less hold a navigation list like this. --Cat out 08:45, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Philosophers by century categories

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The result of the debate was no consensous. - TexasAndroid 18:41, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The following categories need to be renamed for proper grammar:

—Doug Bell talk•contrib 07:16, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

CommentBut this is inconsistent with our century articles which do not use hyphens. 2nd century, not 2nd-century which is only a redirect. User:Dimadick

The hyphen is needed when "2nd century" becomes an adjective. "2nd century" where '2nd' is the adjective and 'century' is the noun needs no hyphen. —Doug Bell talk•contrib 09:54, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. I don't support the hyphen for any of these categories. (See above under "Century and millennium hyphenation" above, which probably should be processed before this is closed.)--Mike Selinker 20:24, 7 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose In line with the similar vote on this matter under a different day where there is a strong majority against the hyphen. ReeseM 01:07, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Zoos in Canada

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Category:Aquaria in Canada

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Category:Zoos, Aquariums and Insectoriums of Canada

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The result of the debate was Keep the first two, delete the third. - TexasAndroid 18:02, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see why we have to have two different category lists for zoos and aquaria in Canada. There is already a category list for Zoos, Aquariums and Insectoriums of Canada. Anyways does it really matter if it is listed differently? It all deals with seeing animals in Canada through tanks and cages. Besides there are zoos who have aquarium elements in their business and vice versa with aquariums. So having both of these categories being listed differently does not make since. For example Marineland (Ontario) is listed in both categories. 04:36, 1 May 2006 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bestghuran (talk • contribs)

  • You should delete categories Zoos in Canada and Aquaria in Canada You have two zoos/aquariums under both categories, just make it simple and put it under one category so that people can find both subjects. Putting aquariums and zoos in the same category is not like putting war and peace together, they both have the same functions at looking at animals. Also let me remind you that I have created two pages for zoos and aquariums, so I had some input and I was going to finish the stubs under the categories printed above. So in my opinion I put more input in these categories than the both of you did, lately, who have this your way or no way attitude, which is very unclassy and unprofessional. Bestghuran 11:00 Pacific, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
  • 3 things. 1/ The standard used in every other country is to keep these seperate, so why should we group them together? Go with the standard, keep things nice and uniform. 2/ You're telling people off for wanting to keep Zoos and Aquaria as seperate categories when you claim they're the same thing, yet you want to create both "Zoos and Aquaria in Canada" and "CAZA" categories... which are essentially the same thing. 3/ I don't feel you have any right to say "[we] have this your way or no way attitude, which is very unclassy and unprofessional", after you've spent the past few days in a delete war over a page that was successfully CfD'd, but you continued to insist on recreating without even any discussion. Pot, meet Kettle. --Maelwys 18:34, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • By the way CAZA and knowing what zoos are in Canada is two different subjects, you want to keep the same uniform, how come there is a list of AZA members, why can't you have CAZA if the AZA is allowed to continue -- Bestghuran 11:33 Pacific, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I would like to add that you two users have this our way or the highway attitude and just put this category under deletion out of spite, to show me that I am not welcomed to touch or create things, which I will add is unclassy and unprofessional. The thing is I have actually inputted more info about this subject than the both of you did and I even created two new pages, recently. You have done stuff hypocritical like I am not allowed to put contact information on certain pages, but the African Lion Safari, which you probably created has contact information. In addition, to your hypocritical behaviour, is that you can't comprehend putting Marineland (Ontario) and Montreal Biodome in one category under Zoos, Aquariums and Insectoriums of Canada, but can comprehend putting them under two different categories, Category:Zoos in Canada and Category:Aquaria in Canada is just mind-boggling. 11:18 Pacific 1 May 2006 (UTC)

  • As I said above, they were right in saying that articles cannot have contact information. Wikipedia is not a phone directory. African Lion Safari was created by an anonymous IP. Mshe (talk · contribs) added the contact information, which was rightly removed by Zzuuzz (talk · contribs) the day before yesterday. Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 18:45, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • As noted above, AZA isn't a category, it's a list. Feel free to create a similar CAZA list as a page, just not a category. So there's nothing hypocritical here, you just happen to be comparing apples to oranges. Also, whether or not we can comprehend putting two things in the same category is entirely irrelevent. I can certainly grasp the idea of it. I just feel that it's much better to stick with the standard, to keep things looking uniform and clean. If some parks happen to have enough fish and other animals to qualify as both a Zoo and an Aquarium, then so be it. I don't think Marineland qualifies for that, it's just an Aquarium, so I already removed it from the Zoo category yesterday after you pointed it out the first time. Finally, repeating the same points and insults won't get you anywhere, I suggest you come up with some new arguments, and I'd appreciate it if you stop the personal insults completely. Nobody is out to get you, ruin your life, or make you feel unwelcome. We all get a say in these things, and you just happen to be on the smaller side of these debates. --Maelwys 18:55, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

Category:Various artists albums

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. - TexasAndroid 18:04, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

{{Various artists album infobox}} used to automatically sort articles here, before it was redirected to {{Album infobox}}. However, a bunch of articles were manually sorted here. Now, I don't really think there's a useful purpose to collecting all albums by "various artists" in one place, since they are generally all covered in more specific ways by Cat:Compilation albums, Cat:Soundtracks, and Cat:Tribute albums. As it happens, everything in this category is already either in Cat:Compilation albums or Cat:Compilation album stubs, so we don't even need to spend time merging (is it all by hand, these days?). Unint 04:30, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Monument types to Category:Types of monument and memorial

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was no consensous. - TexasAndroid 18:45, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It is logical to rename this as a follow up to the recent merging of the monument and memorial categories. CalJW 02:16, 1 May 2006 (UTC).[reply]

? I am not familiar with this subject, but wouldn't it be 'Types of monuments and memorials' (plurals, not singulars) thanks Hmains 02:53, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.
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