Talk:Ukraine

Religion in Ukraine

Religious adherence poll based on CIA factbook is very misleading and needs to be removed or balanced with alternative polls and statistics. The biggest problem is the religious split between two largest Ukrainian Orthodox Churches - Ukrainian Orthodox Curch-Moscow Patriarchate (UOC-MP) and Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Kiev Patriarchate (UOC-KP). Razumkov Centre provides the following statistics : 10.9 % of Ukrainians identify themselves with UOC-MP, 14.9 % of Ukrainains identify themselves with UOC-KP while 62.5 % of Ukrainians do not identify themselves with any church organization mentioned in the poll, ["What religious group do you belong to?". Sociology poll by Razumkov Centre about the religious situation in Ukraine (2006)]. This poll, however, is also misleading. Majority of these 62.5 % of Ukrainians who were not able to identify themselves with a particular church organization, consider themselves Orthodox Christians (even if they only attend church services few times a year or not at all). Majority of this 62.5 % of Ukrainians were also baptized in UOC-MP churches and attend church services (even if only during Easter mess) in UOC-MP churches. This is simply because great majority of Ukrainian Orthodox churches and clergy belong to UOC-MP (approximately 68 percent of all Orthodox Christian communities in the country - see Ukrainian Orthodox Church (Moscow Patriarchate)). The trick that allows UOC-KP to make claim to be the largest church in Ukraine is that the majority of their adherents clearly indicate they belong to UOC-KP (which is generally more nationalist and politicized), while most people who were baptized by UOC-MP and attend UOC-MP church services simply state they are Orthodox Christians. UOC-MP also often portrays itself as the canonical Orthodox Christian church in Ukraine rather than the "Moscow church", downplaying its connections with Moscow Patriarchate (esp. in Central and Western Ukraine) and this also contributes to the confusion polls on church allegiance in Ukraine create. In addition, many of the UOC-MP churches and majority of people who identify with UOC-MP are in the more urbanized South and East Ukraine where church attendance is low compared to the rural Central and Western Ukraine where UOC-KP is the strongest. If the pollsters would have used a different methodology that would explained the differences between the two churches and really press the Ukrainians to choose between the two more than 50 % of Ukrainians would likely identify with UOC-MP while only around 15 % with UOC-KP, yet the CIA Factbook statistics paint the picture which is almost the exact opposite. The religious divide in Ukraine is not exactly the same as a linguistic, political, cultural and historical divide in Ukraine between Russian-speaking south-east(majority of Yanukovych voters in the second round of the recent presidential poll) and Ukrainian speaking north-west (mostly Tymoshenko voters), there is an Orthodox Christian majority in the North and Central Ukraine and a sizable Orthodox minority (including the UOC-MP laity) in the West, yet there is a relation to the overall split which divides Ukraine in two. Roughly 55 to 60 % of more or less religious Ukrainians identify with UOC-MP (or the canonical Orthodox Ukrainian church as many know it) while the rest are members of UOC-KP church, Greko-Catholic church, Roman Catholic church, various Protestant churches and so on.

--Fisenko

"The Ukraine"

Why is it sometimes called "The Ukraine" rather than "Ukraine"? Tipi Tiki (talk) 04:45, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

My impression is that it normally used to be referred to as "the Ukraine" in English, before it became an independent country; now it's a country it's always "Ukraine". But someone may have more reliable information.--Kotniski (talk) 18:57, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

The Ukraine (formerly also Little Russia or Malo-Russia) implies that it is a geographic region, often considered to be a constituent part of the Russian Empire or the Soviet Union. It may also be perceived as belittling the status of Ukrainians as a people. Ukraine is the name of a nation and sovereign country. The former was quite common in English, but not universal, before Ukrainian independence in 1991. —Michael Z. 2008-12-21 20:54 z

WOW! The country exists already for almost 20 years and people still are asking the same question regarding its name. No one says the Belarus or the Russia, although, technically that would be the right name in proper English. The Kyivan Rus was called that way not accidently. It encompassed various other Rus-lands: Chervonarus, Belarus, Chornarus etc. Yet today calling Russia as the Russia sounds kind of akward. I do not see why it is so difficult to say Ukraine instead of the Ukraine. There is nothing wrong with that. Some people argue something about geography or whatever. But there is nothing to argue - it is what it is. Ukraine is Ukraine. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 05:02, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

It's got nothing to do with whether or not it's an independent country. Some Ukrainians seem to perceive that a slight is intended by the use of 'the'. Such perceptions seem quite odd to native English speakers. Many countries have names in English which end in '-nia' (Albania, Estonia, Macedonia, etc), and somehow the 'ain' ending sounds as if something is missing. Lebanon and Sudan are other countries which, at times, have been preceded by 'the' in English. It would sound more natural in English if 'Ukraine' was called 'Ukrainia' - which would be closer to its actual name in Ukrainian anyway.210.10.106.195 (talk) 01:53, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

This is purely a linguistic phenomenon, one of actual practice. There is no value judgement involved, no technical distinction being made, and therefore there is no PC issue one way or the other. There is also no officially correct answer: the constitutions of countries give them an official name form in their official language, but there is no officially correct translation into other languages. Like anything else in language, country names just are. Some country names have definite articles for no particular reason. In English we also have "The USA", "The UK", and (often) "The Gambia", as well as the examples already mentioned. In German, the Ukraine, Switzerland and Turkey have definite articles, and traditionally so does the Tirol, though that is gradually disappearing. It is just a question of linguistic variation, and certainly has nothing to do with politics, national status, or any other concrete factor. It can be influenced by purely linguistic factors (English is more likely to do it when the country name involves an adjective-noun combination, German tendentially when it is grammatically feminine) so the last contributor's hypothesis about the -aine ending being a factor is possible, though the US state of Maine doesn't have an article, nor does Spain. Anyway the point is, we should test and see what actual current usage in English is, and follow that. And I THINK that what I ususally hear on the BBC and CNN is still "the Ukraine". --Doric Loon (talk) 10:08, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Incidentally, I just checked some of the other language Wikis and see that Wikipedia gives the Ukraine an article in French, German, Italian and Gaelic, but not in Spanish or Dutch. Clearly not something to get worked up about. --Doric Loon (talk) 10:17, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it can be a linguistic phenomenon sometimes where English users like using the definite article, but the whole "the Ukraine" issue can be taken from a political standpoint (c.f. Name of Ukraine). I watch and read the BBC and never hear them using "the Ukraine." That usage is anachronistic (and sometimes offensive) and not used by many mainstream English sources. ddima.talk 01:35, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

It is "Ukraine" not "the Ukraine"... I find it offensive and so does most of my family in L'viv. UkrNole 485 (talk) 23:15, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

It is sometimes called "The Ukraine" because "Ukraine" comes from the Slavic word for "edge" (see wiktionary). The first people to translate the word into English translated it as "The Ukraine" rather than just "Ukraine", because it makes grammatical sense in English ("the Edge" rather than just "Edge"). But being a proper noun, it shouldn't actually be preceded by an article. Hypershock (talk) 12:11, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

We do not say "the England", but it is mean "the English land" ;) UeArtemis (talk) 20:10, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

It's 'The Ukraine'. Simple as! It's not offensive it's just the way it is. Who the hell says "I just got back from Ukraine"?! If somebody said that to me I'd think they don't speak English properly! (86.1.97.190 (talk) 09:03, 9 November 2009 (UTC))

Ukrainians believe that "the Ukraine" is offensive like Russian "на Украину".UeArtemis (talk) 20:10, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

I can only conclude from that: You think at the BBC the don't speak proper English... Interesting, but not relevant. — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 15:56, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

I think people are being hypersensitive. It's not an insult whatsoever. I don't even understand why you think it is an insult. It naturally comes to mind for native English speakers. In fact, 'the' Ukraine sounds good. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.220.148.111 (talk) 19:46, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

My belief is it's a linguistic curriosity, resulting from the use of "The UK." We say: "I'm travelling to the UK," so we naturally want to say "I'm travelling to the Ukraine." "I'm travelling to Ukraine," sounds a little odd because our more common experience is with "the UK." Despite this, I think Ukraine on its own is the correct form. --212.192.251.38 (talk) 15:56, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

http://www.infoukes.com/faq/the_ukraine/ End of discussion. 74.78.240.25 (talk) 21:57, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

The fact that there is a lively debate on the issue shows that it IS an issue. Regardless of the "correct" form, I found it surprising that there is no mention of this issue in the article, in fact "The Ukraine" is not mentioned at all. Would it not at least warrant insertion, perhaps as an alternative name, or a historical name? Also, I believe there is no etymology of the name either, which one would expect. My personal recollection is that the definite article was exclusively used in English until the breakup of the Soviet Union, when it began to be eliminated as "demeaning". My feeling is that the usage of "The Ukraine" reflects a slightly "colonial" mentality and has thus been dispensed with, partly for PC reasons if you like, much like Africa is no longer referred to as the Dark Continent Markowe (talk) 14:15, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Language

   Main articles: Ukrainian language and Languages of Ukraine

Percentage of native Ukrainian speakers by subdivision. Percentage of native Ukrainian speakers by subdivision.

Percentage of native Russian speakers by subdivision.[f] Percentage of native Russian speakers by subdivision.[f]

According to the Constitution, the state language of Ukraine is Rusian.

--> According to the Constitution of Ukraine the official language is Ukrainian. Please, see the Article #10 of the Chapter I ([1])

Russian, which was the de facto official language of the Soviet Union, is widely spoken, especially in eastern and southern Ukraine. According to the 2001 census, 67.5 percent of the population declared Russian as their native language and 29.6 percent declared Ukranian.[107] Most native Russian speakers know Ukranian as a second language.

These details result in a significant difference across different survey results, as even a small restating of a question switches responses of a significant group of people.[f] Ukrainian is mainly spoken in western and central Ukraine. In western Ukraine, Russian is also the dominant language in cities (such as Lviv). In central Ukraine, Ukrainian and Russian are both equally used in cities, with Russian being more common in Kiev,[f] while Russian is the dominant language in rural communities. In eastern and southern Ukraine, Russian is primarily used in cities, and Surzhyk is used in rural areas.

--> Ukrainian is more widely spoken in rural settlements both on left and right banks of the Dnipro. The western part of Ukraine is commonly used Ukrainian, whilst Zakarpattia and Chernivtsi have their own specialities - large hungarian and romanian speaking communities. I am not convinced that Lviv is more Russian than Ukrainian. Currently it is more Ukrainian. Kyis is bilingual city, where the native elders use Russian, whilst the youngsters use both Ukrainian and Russian.

For a large part of the Soviet era, the number of Ukrainian speakers was declining from generation to generation, and by the mid-1980s, the usage of the Ukrainian language in public life had decreased significantly.[108] Following independence, the government of Ukraine began following a policy of Ukrainisation,[109] to increase the use of Ukrainian, while discouraging Russian, which has been banned or restricted in the media and films.[110][111] This means that Russian-language programmes need a Ukrainian translation or subtitles, but this excludes Russian language media made during the Soviet era.

--> I am not agree about the discouraging of Russian, it is widely used in all media, especially dominating in printed ones. During the Soviet time the Soviet government proclaimed the equality of languages on paper, however in real life the Russian is dominating.

According to the Constitution of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, Ukrainian is the only state language of the republic. However, the republic's constitution specifically recognises Russian as the language of the majority of its population and guarantees its usage 'in all spheres of public life'. Similarly, the Crimean Tatar language (the language of 12 percent of population of Crimea[112]) is guaranteed a special state protection as well as the 'languages of other ethnicities'. Russian speakers constitute an overwhelming majority of the Crimean population (77 percent), with Ukrainian speakers comprising just 10.1 percent, and Crimean Tatar speakers 11.4 percent.[113] But in everyday life the majority of Crimean Tatars and Ukrainians in Crimea use Russian.[114]

See also

I am trying to add a section called See also, and to include a link to 'Category:Ukraine-related_lists'. But am having great difficulty!(Reason: inexperience!) Can anyone help, or do it for me, if it is possible. Thanks. --Lepton6 (talk) 16:28, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

 Done. I assume you were previewing your edit but could not get it to work right, so you hit "Cancel". In case you find this interesting, I am sharing the magic trick that makes it work: one must put a colon before "Category" in the link syntax, like so: [[:Category:Ukraine-related lists]]. That's what allows it to be a link to the category rather than putting the page in the category. — ¾-10 23:59, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

An-225

It was build in the SOVIET UNION which official follower is Russia. So it is not a Ukraine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Saiga12 (talk • contribs) 00:40, 8 February 2010 (UTC) --Saiga12 (talk) 22:29, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Not really; see the Antonov article's details on its Ukraine-based nature with manufacturing in Ukraine, Russia, and Uzbekistan. Things that happened in Ukraine when it was an SSR nevertheless happened in Ukraine. By your reckoning, a knife made in French-ruled Vietnam could not be described as Vietnamese but would have to be called French. And a tea pot made in British India could not be described as Indian but would have to be called English. I'm sure that when you see it that way, you will see the weakness of such reckoning. — ¾-10 17:14, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Well and this is a jerk comment! You know that Russia is planning to produce the An124 in Uljanowsk?!--Saiga12 (talk) 16:55, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

The comment is not meant to be jerky (but I have retracted the closest-to-jerky part of it using <del> tags). All I am saying is that, according to the Antonov article, Antonov ASTC is a state-owned company of Ukraine. If that is incorrect, then the Antonov article needs to be fixed. I'm not saying that there's no Russian component to the company (which is apparently a Ukraine-based multinational corporation), I'm just saying that I don't think you can call it a "Russian company" based simply on the logic that "It was build in the SOVIET UNION which official follower is Russia". — ¾-10 19:52, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

New elections

They just elected a new President. Is it time to make it official? USchick (talk) 04:47, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I think it’s better to wait till “the dust has settled” (court cases against the result might be a reality soon). — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 08:49, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I think this edit by me is enough for now (no need to update every action of every Ukrainian politician in this article). — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 14:31, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

He is the president! There is no disbelief.--Saiga12 (talk) 21:10, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Categories

Removed two of the categories. Ukraine was around long before 1991 (it was a country for some time before USSR came about). Also it's not exactly a "liberal democracy" compared to, for example, France or Germany. ProGloriaDei (talk) 17:32, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Mistake on Anthem

The infobox calls the anthem "Shche ne vmerla Ukrayiny i slava i volya" and it's actually "Shche ne vmerla Ukraina". Also, even if you added the last four words it's "ni slava ni volya" not "i slava i volya". It's a mistake, can someone please fix it? --Leomir Lionheart (talk) 02:39, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Its not a mistake, http://zakon.rada.gov.ua/cgi-bin/laws/main.cgi?nreg=602-15 Ceriy (talk) 03:54, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

The words of the anthem were changed slightly to accomodate some updates. The current version is "Shche ne vmerla Ukrayiny i slava i volya" --Bandurist (talk) 15:54, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Republic???

Why is Ukraine referred to as a "republic" instead of "a country" in the first sentence of the article? If you are referring to the government system, that's not the place to do it. I just checked other countries with the same system (Albania, Angola, Argentina, Austria, Belarus, Belgium... and on and on) and all of them are called "countries" in their respective articles. I'm afraid this is simply a mean spirited vandalism designed to portray Ukraine as still a part of the old Russian system. Please change it back immediately. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mykyta (talk • contribs) 04:47, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

• I concur. Fixed Alex Bakharev (talk) 06:54, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks both . — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 07:11, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Kyiv is correct spelling!!!

Change from Kiev to Kyiv as it's correct spelling of the capital of Ukraine. http://www.rada.gov.ua/const/conengl.htm#r9