Talk:Pancho Villa

Year of Birth

For the sake of consistency across the Wikipedia encyclopedias, I have adjusted the date of birth from 1877 to 1878. Although I'm aware that the exact date of his birth is under debate, the general consensus seems to be that 1878 is the correct year. This discussion page brought up the birth date back in 2005, but not much explanation was given for the reason behind the two birth years in the article. If anyone strongly opposes this edit, feel free to revert the year back to 1877, but in the meantime, I'll try to browse some Spanish language (and more specifically, Mexican) sources to try to find a good source to quote for the birth date. .cosme. (talk) 14:27, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Dying Words

I always see these punctuated slightly differently, but I'm rather certain that they weren't delivered in a deadpan. Isn't an exclamation point due? --65.0.255.37 18:00, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

• Deadpan? I take it the pun was intended? ;-) I would assume that having been badly perforated, Villa likely barely croaked out the words before he, uh, croaked. Tubezone 06:08, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Unsupported Allegations Regarding Villa's Family Origins

I have deleted a paragraph which alluded, without mention of any supporting evidencnjinmomfmctgmivmgotvmgv;g,v;lg,lv,g;lt,vl;g,l;v,gl;,vlg,lv,gt;l,vlgt,vl,g0omvkgpmvkgmvoihnbpohkmvkgoinvpgnvkmglvm;l,fvl;,flc,l;f,c;l,f;l,cl;,lv;,gl;v,;glt,vgmvighmvkhmihmkgmkvmgl;mv and Sydney."<--

If the authors of the aforementioned paragraph believe that there is any truthfulness in their assertions, they should submit, for public perusal and approval, evidence, documentation and/or references that would substantiate their account.

-Speleo

Perhaps this isn't true, but you might want to check the following Pancho Villa site: http://www.ojinaga.com/villa/ and then check out a book they talk about regarding Villa's Jewish roots. Lots of research - BRAND NEW BOOK SHOWS THAT VILLA MAY HAVE BEEN JEWISH! CLICK HERE http://www.ojinaga.com/osorio/

- just check it out -- Nancy

"This was the only attack on the continental United States by a foreign government or foreigner in modern times." I removed this sentence. I think someone else attacked the US as well a few years ago. --Mixcoatl 22:51, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Took Out Some Vandalism

Somebody had added "Napoleon Dynamite" under Antonio Banderas under the list of actors who had portrayed Villa, and added something along the lines of "ima cool farmer from kansas" under the quotes. Fixed. ~Atog

Now who in the world would put that in?Iceberg2229 00:14, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Needs MORE Work

The beginning of the Mexican Revolution go back to the time of Porfirio Diaz. Pacho Villa was one of the persons who started the Revolution, after being recruited by Madero.

WRONG PHOTO! Photo supposedly showing "Francisco Villa as a child" is of Agustín Villa Corral, Pancho and Luz Corral's eldest son. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Richmx2 (talk • contribs) 02:56, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Needs Work

There are some incomprehensible sentences near the beginning: "There one of the owners of the property attempted against its older sister, and Villa hurt it of three shots, fleeing to the mount to avoid his punishment. He ran away and there join into the Gang of Francisco Villa a former cattle rustler, at his dead Doroteo take his name and his fame." Attempted what? "its older sister" means what? "hurt it of three shots" means "hurt him with three shots," perhaps? "the mount" may mean "the mountains" but a mount can be a horse so maybe he fled on a horse. "At his dead" means "at his death?" Probably needs better translation from Spanish Pdn 21:22, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

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he was born in mexico

He was mexican

In World War Two, the Japanese launched "This was the only military attack on or invasion of the continental United States by a foreign state or foreig jet-stream ballons which caused forest fires and a few casulties. Or the Japanese Sub shelling of a Long Beach, CA refinery. Would the invasion of the Aleutian Islands be consider 'continental' or not?

At a minimum, remove the words "only miltitary attack on"

So, according to a Biography (possibly by A&E, unsure) video on Pancho Villa, the truth about the whole attack-on-US-soil-incident is that it was the first invasion/attack by a foreign country on US soil since the War of 1812. Just thought I'd put that out there. How Impossible 23:40, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Does El centauro del norte really mean the fart of the northern sky?

Centauro (Spanish) means centaur (English). A centaur is any of a race of creatures fabled to be half human and half horse and to live in the mountains of Thessaly, see [www.m-w.org]. "El centauro del norte" simply means "the northern centaur". It is a metaphor to refer to Villa, since he was from the North of Mexico, fighting the Revolution mainly on the Northern States of the country, and he was always with a horse. General Villa's cavalry was quiet an impressive war machine. It is interested to mention that his army was one of the first to have an airplane and he also used cars. --adriana —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.144.99.40 (talk) 20:39, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Incorrect Actor

Note actor Skeet Ulrich (1956) points to modern day actor. Should add clarification.

Commented-Out material

This section was commented out and replaced by Nimlot. I have moved it here for reference.

---

He was born on 5 June 1877 in the Río Grande Ranch, in San Juan del Río, Durango. as a member of a very humble family. His father died while he was young, so he had to work the land to maintain to his mother and brothers, in the property of Cogojito. There one of the owners of the property attempt to assault his elder sister, and Villa shot him three times and subsequently fled to the mountains to avoid punishment. There he met and joined Francisco Villa's gang, a former cattle rustler. Upon Francisco Villa's death, Doroteo Arango took his name and his fame.

The Governor of Chihuahua, Abraham González, considered a valuable element for the revolution prepared by Madero, against the government of Porfirio Díaz. González urged Villa to fight by the Revolution by providing him with weapons and money; Villa obtained men and horses, and as ordered in the Plan of San Luis, on 20 November he led an uprising, thereby joining the revolutionary effort. He operated in the south of Chihuahua and the north of Durango, assaulting specially federal trains that transported troops north to fight the revolutionaries. Villa fought until Madero became the head of the new government, and returned to fighting in 1913 after the assassination of Madero by Victoriano Huerta. Huerta then allied with Carranza against the usurpation of the presidency by Huerta, and in view of which already he had reached reputation by his boldness and value, the revolutionary heads of Chihuahua], Coahuila and Durango proclaimed head to it of the Division of the North, that got to be most powerful, between the revolutionary armies. In the Carrancistas campaigns Villa reached his better triumphs, taking Torreón, Ciudad Juárez and Ojinaga, and still he initiated the victorious advance towards the south of the country. Nevertheless, Carranza delayed to Villa by the proximity of other heads, specially the sonorenses, reason why Villa began to also separate of the Maximum Head of the Revolution. In 1914, Carranza mentioned a convention of the revolutionary forces, to file harshness among them, without obtaining its objective, because Villa seized of the convention, in Aguascalientes, and broke relations with Carranza, nominating a new president of the Republic, Villa took, with the General Emiliano Zapata, the city of Mexico, having Carranza that to flee towards the port of Veracruz. But then the sonorense Alvaro Obregón, constitutionalist commander of the forces of Carranza, calls, began to beat to those of Villa, convencionistas calls, until managing to annihilate them, in the famous battle of Celaya, where Obregón lost an arm. Villa looked for the recognition of the United States, for his government, and as he did not obtain it, he visited the border population of Columbus, where he take weapons. U.S. general Pershing entered Mexican territory, persecuting it, without never reaching it. Carranza was dead in 1917, apparently by its same

U.S. President Woodrow Wilson responded by sending 12,000 troops, under Gen. John J. Pershing, into Mexico on March 15 to pursue Villa. In the U.S., this was known as the Pancho Villa Expedition. During the search, the United States launched its first air combat mission when eight aeroplanes lifted off on March 19. The expedition to capture Villa was called off as a failure on January 28, 1917.

"Chinese extraction"

What in the world is that supposed to mean? 68.118.193.44 10:59, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Colombian origin?

An emailed question, being posted on behalf of someone who is having trouble posting. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 20:46, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

> > Was Pancho Villa from Colombia? > > * > > Regarding Pancho Villa, there is a lot of controversy around when > > and where he was born. There are some theories that suggest he was > > actually born in Colombia, South America. Some of these theories > > also suggest there is no interest to find the true about the real > > place where he was born, he is a national hero and it's better if > > mexicans continue to believe this legendary caracter was in fact > > mexican. I tried to find more information about it on the internet > > but my attempts have failed. I found an interview by El Tiempo > > (newspaper) in Colombia in Spanish, February 2005, where his > > granddaughters said this is a mystery. They were asked if it is > > true he is Colombian and there answer was "this is a mystery, we do not know for sure". Was he Colombian?*

The nationality and birth place of Villa are not under discussion and they have never been. It is common that once someone becomes a hero, a well known and admired General and a revolutionary, it is easy to become part of myths and rumors. This is what happened to Villa. You can find well documented information in the book "Pancho Villa: una biografía narrativa" by Paco Ignacio Taibo II.

Bad link to editorial

The external link to a Tuscon newspaper editorial about Pancho's statue in Tucson does not work. I have searched the newspaper's archives for 2003 and 2004 and turned up nothing. The link needs to be corrected or removed. Jm546 21:55, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Birthday?

Why is it that we give two different dates for his birthday? Lead gives a very exact date, but then the body insists on a different date. I think the source of the discrepancy should be explained. -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ | Esperanza 19:53, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

• Please see this section of the article.

actually no one knows for sure when Villa was born, so 2 dates are listed.

rancho villa

I've seen (somewhere) Villa was killed on his ranch @Parral. Confirm & include? Trekphiler 23:58, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Microsoft Encarta states he retired to his ranch in Chihuahua where he was killed in 1923. -ksands 23:10, 10 January 2006

• If that's what Encarta states, Encarta is wrong. (See, that'll teach you to trust Bill Gates) All the reliable sources I know of say he was killed in the streets of Hidalgo del Parral, Chihuahua. His bullet-riddled car is in the Museo de la Revolucion in Chihuahua City. His ranch was the hacienda of El Canutillo, Durango. Tubezone 10:31, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

yes, he was killed by a party of assasins while he was leaving in his car to his Hacienda. Theres an Antonio Banderas movie that depicts the events rather accurately.

Microsofts Encarta is definitely wrong if it states that Villa was killed in Chihuahua City. My Father was born and raised in Parral and was close by when it happened. Not on the same street, but a block or so away.

Buried Treasures

According to treasure and metal detecting magazines, such as Lost Treasure, he has literally buried/cached several gold and silver items worth @ least $20 Billion in several places in Mexico. Martial Law 20:19, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

These magazines may be found in metal detecting dealerships, online. Martial Law 20:21, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

That number might be correct given the fact that it was used to support the revolution, which includes paying salaries to his army, food, medicine, doctors, coal for the trains, paying to the widows of fallen Revolutionaries, buying arms and other supplies. You can read a out this in Paco Ignacio Taibo II book "Pancho Villa". Probably the most exhaustive history book on Villa, and the book that uses all available references.

vandalism

took out the words "oh yeah baby, give it to me" from the section outlining the revolt against diaz

Source info in first section?

Should the source info really be in the first section? I think it should be moved to the bottom. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.168.173.170 (talk) 06:38, 23 February 2007 (UTC).

Potential fact error introduced - due to defective bullets Purchased from the United States

This statement was added by User:64.113.172.14 on March 21, 2007. The referenced URL, Villa's Raid on Columbus, New Mexico makes no mention of such a purchase. Instead, there is a paragraph about alleged arms purchases that were reneged. Recommend deletion. Ronbo76 11:41, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

"Descendants"

It describes Villa's sister's daughter's sons as his descendants. However these are not direct descendants of Villa's as they are neither his children nor descended from his children. Should the language be changed to say that they are the only known living relatives? I didn't want to make that change because I don't know if it would be accurate stated that way but perhaps someone who knows more could confirm this? Usually when one says descendants one is talking about a series of one or more parent-child relationships.

Wikipedia has two pancho villa pages

$Insertformulahere$ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Markmrf (talk • contribs) 22:00, 8 May 2007 (UTC).

two pages on Pancho Villa

I find two pages on Pancho Villa under two different URL's. Also I don't think Pancho Villa was in the Vietnam war and I'm pretty sure he didn't drive a pink pickup truck or found the Yamaha Motorcycle company.

Markmrf 22:07, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

That looks like vandalism to me.Iceberg2229 00:20, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Article

I guess the article is better off referring to what it is address to now inspite that there's another person who goes by the same name. The one here is the original to wear that monicker. FoxLad 04:14, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. I'll add redirects from Doroteo Arango Arámbula and Doroteo Arango_{already done by someone else} to this article. --barneca (talk) 14:50, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Yaqui

My father has always told me that he was a Yaqui. Perhaps someone out there can verify this...--Amedeo Felix 17:17, 1 November 2007 (UTC) The talk page is for discussing the article, not your father's origins.Iceberg2229 00:16, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Man, what a horrible misunderstanding leading to some hilarious ignorance. Way to read english, Iceberg2229. amadeofelix was asking as to whether or not Pancho Villa was of Yaqui descent, NOT his father. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.52.61.22 (talk) 09:15, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Cleanup

I've been looking at the article, and it needs some cleanup. It discusses mainly the political problems of the time instead of the life of Pancho Villa like it should. Otherwise me might as well rename the article.Iceberg2229 00:19, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

huh?

i took out the trivia section because it did not contain references. Iceberg2229 00:30, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Conflicting information

"Villa's remarkable generalship and recruiting appeal, combined with ingenious fundraising methods to support his rebellion, would be a key factor in forcing Huerta from office a little over a year later, on July 15, 1914."

"The loss of Zacatecas in June 1914 broke the back of the Huerta regime, and Huerta left for exile on July 14, 1914."

Obviously, these can't both be right. --69.7.37.69 (talk) 07:50, 18 January 2008 (UTC) pancho villa is awesome —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.102.15.114 (talk) 16:49, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Date of death

Google seems fairly evenly divided between 20 June, 20 July and 23 July. Can anyone convince me which one is correct? -- JackofOz (talk) 13:10, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Removed possible vandalism/Lead needs clean-up?

I removed a reference to a "Sam Buckhalter" who doesn't appear elsewhere on wikipedia or return any google results besides those that are directly quoting the text of this article. If it isn't outright vandalism, Mr. Buckhalter doesn't seem significant enough to warrant a mention.

I also wonder how people feel about the lead to this article. It seems a little messy and I don't think it gives a good overview of Villa's life and significance. What do others think? Does it need a re-write? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Afamiglietti (talk • contribs) 14:49, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Last Words

Just finished watching an episode of QI and at the end of the show Stephen Fry ended with a quote of Pancho's last words, apparently they are "Don't let it end like this, tell them I said something" Perhaps if these last words can be cited they could be mentioned in the article, as it is quite a nice little story RohypnolFTW (talk) 20:39, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Those were definitely not his last words. Just think of the fact that he was shot 300 bullets while he was driving his car and not expecting the raid. Of course, he died long before those 300 bullets touched him or the car! -adriana citlali —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.144.99.40 (talk) 20:22, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I could care less about his last words, as many readers could, but the article could use some more information on his death, such as events leading up to it and how exactly everything occured. I hate to say it but at this time this is a very confusing article to read and needs a lot of cleaning up especially in Villa's later years. Chuck61007 (talk) 00:49, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

The Hunt for Pancho Villa; number discrepency

According to Eric Foner's History Textbook Give Me Liberty!: An American History, Volume 2, 2nd edition, page 724, over 10,000 troops were sent into Northern Mexico, not 6,000. --75.48.22.63 (talk) 04:43, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:Rangers1915.JPG

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• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
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The whole shot a rapist thing

In his own version of his life at the age of 16 he shot an older man, the son of a big landowner, who had tried to rape Pancho's younger 
sister Martina. After this, being pursued for murder, he escaped. (This version is debunked - see Jeff Howell at References below.)

This statement makes it seem like Jeff Howell discredited the entire story while in the article it states

Historians are divided over the actual events that occurred in 1894. The story goes that Doroteo, age 16, shot Agustín López  Negrete 
for trying to rape Doroteo's sister Martina. Surprisingly, Negrete did not order Doroteo arrested or killed. Villa scholar, Friedrich 
Katz, questioned this train of events because when Doroteo, now Francisco Villa, was arrested in 1898, the charges brought were mule and 
gun theft, not the attempted murder of a wealthy hacendado.

I dont know if its important but ive seen editors fight over less important things in smaller articles. Sorry if im wrong or my statements make no sense. Take care.--99.186.19.2 (talk) 20:59, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

More Vandalism

Recommend removing sentances quoted below found in the Introduction portion:

"He is believed to be gay, and while visiting Mission, Texas during spring break, he met a man named Alex Reguera, who happened to be metro. They had 43 kids, who are illegally living in the United States." —Preceding unsigned comment added by MTC03 (talk • contribs) 22:29, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Columbus

He lost the battle of Columbus, whereas this pages says that he won. I don't know who put that in and then acknowledged that Wikipedia's article on the battle disputes it, but I'm changing it. J1.grammar natz (talk) 02:06, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was consensus for move I am snowing this a bit early, as this is so clear cut as the common name; none of us need to do any research to know that is the case with such a world famous figure.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 02:34, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Francisco "Pancho" Villa → Pancho Villa — First, articles should avoid doing stuff like having parenthesis in article names. Second, he was best known as just Pancho Villa. Pancho Villa already redirects to this article, so that isn't a problem. Checking the logs, it was moved in March 2009 after a editor claimed that this is how it's written in their history book. However, that is not the common name for him from my experience, and different textbooks use different names for people. TJ Spyke 19:19, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

• Support the common, popular, and famous English name should be used (at least in this case). Flamarande (talk) 09:33, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
• Support. Looks like most of the refs and external links call him Pancho Villa. Station1 (talk) 18:45, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
• Support. Article titles that place nicknames in quotes between first and last names are almost never a good idea. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 22:33, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Connected

This may be irrelevant and seem like a big fat lie, but my great-grandmother was Micaela Arambula's best friend, believe it or not. Sirius85 (talk) 23:04, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

--Ballad of Pancho and Lefty== Does Townes van Zandt's song "The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty," derive from parts of Villa's life? 11:10, 8 March 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tapered (talk • contribs)

Name of birthplace

I changed the name of his birthplace from "Rancho de la Loyotada" to "Rancho de la Coyotada". It appears that the error comes from p. 58 of Frank McLynn's book, which is cited. You can see it in Google Books searching "Rancho de la Loyotada". La Coyotada is about 50 miles NNE of Victoria de Durango. --Kenatipo (talk) 17:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

I changed the reference from McLynn's book to one from Katz's book. --Kenatipo (talk) 20:31, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Supposed last words

I have referenced and corrected this brief passage. The idea that Villa survived long enough to deliver any last words is remarkably pervasive. Unfortunately I can't say exactly when the story originated, but there is certainly no contemporary reference to it, and Villa's biographer, Katz, confirms he died instantly.Mikedash (talk) 10:07, 3 December 2010 (UTC)