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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 24.212.237.243 (talk) at 05:38, 26 December 2012 (→‎Balk Province is in Afghanistan). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Former good article nomineeRumi was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
March 19, 2006Peer reviewReviewed
August 11, 2006WikiProject peer reviewReviewed
April 17, 2007Good article nomineeNot listed
Current status: Former good article nominee

Template:WP1.0


Summary #2

  • The users that are arguing for different viewpoints or bring example of other articles (e.g. Farabi) are wrong based on WP:UNDO as described here:[1]. The issue resembles the article such as Scythians where all currently living mainstream specialist scholars accept them as Iranian but Turkish scholars (including Turkish (and related Turkic languages) Wikipedia) claim them as Turk (or gives credence to fringe viewpoint). I have explained the issue in detail in the link and these users are urged to read WP:RS, WP:UNDO, WP:WEIGHT, WP:RS, WP:5P, WP:FORUM and WP:SOAPBOX. Specially WP:UNDO and WP:RS. As our friend said up here: "There is not a single (!) work by experts claiming that Rumi was not a Persian". Until such experts (not random quotes) are brought, then the issue is mute.
  • 50+ sources have been brought here:[2] (although not all of them are Rumi scholars but some are, unlike the fringe viewpoint).
  • The quotes of Franklin, Schimmel and Halman has been discussed here [3][4][5][6]
  • Worst case scenario(incase fringe viewpoint is given any weight), to counter it: [7]
  • A small portion on Persian heritage (incase the article needs to be improved) here:[8][9]
  • OR arguments responded to here: [10][11] (and the next three/four) and more extensively here[12] --Khodabandeh14 (talk) 22:20, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Iranian A.K.A. Persian"

Poor Mevlana, if he could see how he is treated these days by some nationalists... --E4024 (talk) 19:18, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A universal personality like Mevlana should be taken here without any ethnic qualification. Born in Balkh, lived and died in Konya, wrote in Persian, language of poetry of his time. Full stop. --E4024 (talk) 19:21, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Balk Province is in AFGHANISTAN not Tajikistan!! correction please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.76.196.12 (talk) 00:21, 9 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Balk Province is in Afghanistan

There needs to be a correction made on this page or article. Balk province is in Afghanistan not Tajikistan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonya2012 (talk • contribs) 00:25, 9 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A third source could also be added to confirm this (though the second citation for "Tajikistan" does, despite confirming Afghanistan as Rumi's place of birth); Coleman Barks' The Essential Rumi also states that Rumi "was born September 20, 1207, in Balkh Afghanistan" (IX). Afghanis are so familiar with this fact that they call Rumi "Jelaluddin Balkhi." (ibid.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.212.237.243 (talk) 05:27, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request on 9 October 2012

Rumi's place of birth needs to be corrected. Balk province is in Present day Afghanistan NOT Tajikistan and actually has been for centuries. Correction needs to be made for Balk Province being in Afghanistan.

Sonya2012 (talk) 00:29, 9 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This request should be denied. It would appear "someone" has added "Balkh province" to the template. Rumi was born in Vakhsh which is in modern day Tajikistan.[13] A source from Oxford University Press. --Defensor Ursa 00:37, 9 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Annemarie Schimmel, "I Am Wind, You Are Fire," p. 11. She refers to a 1989 article by the German scholar, Fritz Meier:

Tajiks and Persian admirers still prefer to call Jalaluddin 'Balkhi' because his family lived in Balkh, current day in Afghanistan before migrating westward. However, their home was not in the actual city of Balkh, since the mid-eighth century a center of Muslim culture in (Greater) Khorasan (Iran and Central Asia). Rather, as the Swiss scholar Fritz Meier has shown, it was in the small town of Wakhsh north of the Oxus that Baha'uddin Walad, Jalaluddin's father, lived and worked as a jurist and preacher with mystical inclinations. Franklin Lewis, Rumi Past and Present, East and West: The Life, Teachings, and Poetry of Jalâl al-Din Rumi, 2000, pp. 47–49. --Defensor Ursa 00:56, 9 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am closing this edit request there is an ongoing discussion involving at least one autoconfirmed user. Please continue to work toward a consensus on this request. Thank you. —KuyaBriBriTalk 14:00, 9 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request on 20 October 2012

77.168.82.205 (talk) 14:37, 20 October 2012 (UTC) Ok, this is really sad how Rumi's place of birth is placed as Tajekestan while it was indeed Balkh (that is located in Afghanistan)! Please correct this information. His ethnicity is NOT Persian either. Please stop spreading wrong knowledge![reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. A boat that can float! (watch me float!) 15:14, 20 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The article must be edited as soon as possible. 1. Rumi is from Balkh from Afghanistan. Balkh is NOT located in Tajikistan. It is located in the province of Mazar e Sharif in northern Afghanistan. Rumi never lived in Iran and not an Iranian either. In Mathnawi, Rumi himself describes his birthplace in Balkh. The article erroneously places Balkh both in Tajikistan and Afghanistan. 2. It is an abomination to see how Iranians would do whatever possible to rob the cultural heritage of Afghanistan for political purposes. War has destroyed Afghanistan. Its cultural heritage must be preserved. A good example to highlight the error would be to call Mozart a German and Beethoven an Austrian. Hafiz was from Iran. Rumi is from Afghanistan. Iranians and Afghans do share common culture. However, the Iranians have misunderstood the term "Afghan" and associate Afghans with Pashtoons. Wikipedia would only undermine its credibility if it allows false scholarship to propagate on its website. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Farhadus (talk • contribs) 14:59, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Tajiks and Persian admirers still prefer to call Jalaluddin 'Balkhi' because his family lived in Balkh, current day in Afghanistan before migrating westward. However, their home was not in the actual city of Balkh, since the mid-eighth century a center of Muslim culture in (Greater) Khorasan (Iran and Central Asia). Rather, as the Swiss scholar Fritz Meier has shown, it was in the small town of Wakhsh north of the Oxus that Baha'uddin Walad, Jalaluddin's father, lived and worked as a jurist and preacher with mystical inclinations. -- Franklin Lewis, Rumi Past and Present, East and West: The Life, Teachings, and Poetry of Jalâl al-Din Rumi, 2000, pp. 47–49. --Kansas Bear (talk) 17:58, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request on 26 October 2012

There appears to be a typo that needs correcting. Section 4.2 'Prose Works' Fihi MaFihi just at the end of the last paragraph "and lack the sophisticated world play" should be "and lack the sophisticated word play" Heywood123 (talk) 15:55, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

 Done And "wordplay", in the singular, is usually one word. For the record, the wording of that passage may be uncomfortably close to that of the cited source. I don't believe the similarity rises to the level of close paraphrase, but ideally it would be rewritten. Rivertorch (talk) 23:15, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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