Talk:United States Declaration of Independence

Influences on Jefferson

I suspect that this section is probably best reduced to Jefferson's admiration for Locke. Jefferson clearly had a mind of his own and may have been familiar with all the 'influences' mentioned, but in whatever he ingested and digested them, it was Jefferson's decision ultimately to write what he wrote, always mindful, I daresay, of the 'input' of his fellow declarants (Pamour (talk) 14:12, 26 October 2012 (UTC)).

I respectfully disagree; I think that the article as written is well sourced. Furthermore, Jefferson's own words contradict your opinion. He stated that he drew from other philosophers as well as Locke (as well as the common sense of the situation), and he clearly stated that there was nothing original in the document that he put together. Furthermore, the philosophical content of the Declaration conformed to that of the clearly anti-Lockean original declaration of independence, drafted by John Adams and Richard Henry Lee, and passed by Congress on May 10 and 15, 1776.--Other Choices (talk) 01:01, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

chronology of reduction of the text by one-fourth

There are presently two places which mention "having reduced the writing by 1/4" or "deleted nearly a fourth of the text" and the text referring to slave trade. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.247.219.101 (talk) 06:46, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

parchment can we link this to parchment paper of Wikipida

Just wanted to add parchment around the word there seems to be a great deal of discussion on what this document is made of. Thank you
--OxAO (talk) 21:44, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

British Constitution

Multiple references are (incorrectly) made in this article to the British Constitutional Order that misunderstand it as being written or subject to interpretation. This is misleading as the real debate was about natural law, not the constitutional propriety of the laws (there being no British Constitution per se to have recourse to). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Timothy.conder (talk • contribs) 22:59, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

I don't know what is meant by "British Constitutional Order," and there is nothing in the article to imply that the British Constitution was written. The article's references to the British Constitution are sourced to an eminent historian, and reflect mainstream scholarship. If you have a specific disagreement with the wording of a particular sentence, backed up by a reliable source, then please share your thoughts.--Other Choices (talk) 05:16, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Factual accuracy disputed

I haven't taken the time to examine the whole article yet, but I'm seeing too major changes to the lead from the GA approved version of this article. While the GA approved version stated that "Although the wording of the Declaration was approved on July 4, the date of its signing has been disputed. Most historians have concluded that it was signed nearly a month after its adoption, on August 2, 1776, and not on July 4 as is commonly believed" the current version claims "Although the wording of the Declaration was approved on July 4, the date of its signing was August 2". It's evident from the article that it is a disputed issue so the lead should not paint this issue like it's not disputed. I'm also surprised at the inclusion of the statement "The original July 4 United States Declaration of Independence manuscript was lost while all other copies have been derived from this original document". The copy held by the National Archives is widely held to be "the original" and the lead does not make it clear which version was lost. The article states that the first version sent to the french was lost. The copy that was lost and submitted to Congress appears to have been considered lost before the signing. The disputed text claims that the July 4 version was lost. Ryan Vesey 00:07, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, lots of garbage edits have accumulated in the article in the last year or more. It appears no knowledgeable person has been keeping careful watch. I've pruned the garbage. A couple of wording or style choices may have been lost in the cleanup, but we can polish without much problem. —Kevin Myers 03:27, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

User:Rjensen has restored the garbage. Have fun fixing it! —Kevin Myers

if there are problems let's take them one paragraph at a time instead of wholesale erasures. Ryan's complaonts are all about very minor points that can easily be resolved retail. Rjensen (talk) 07:36, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

I don't have the time nor inclination to debate much of the obviously stupid stuff that you've restored. Cheers! —Kevin Myers 07:44, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Redirect from Declaration of Independence to US Declaration of Independence?

Surely it would be more appropriate to offer a disambiguation page to allow for other declarations of independence to be listed appropriately. This redirection seems to show a certain American bias! Ender's Shadow Snr (talk) 23:24, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

You apparently overlooked Declaration of independence. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:41, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 11 January 2013

Add 94.65.29.101 (talk) 13:21, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Influences on Jefferson

I suspect that this section is probably best reduced to Jefferson's admiration for Locke. Jefferson clearly had a mind of his own and may have been familiar with all the 'influences' mentioned, but in whatever he ingested and digested them, it was Jefferson's decision ultimately to write what he wrote, always mindful, I daresay, of the 'input' of his fellow declarants (Pamour (talk) 14:12, 26 October 2012 (UTC)).

I respectfully disagree; I think that the article as written is well sourced. Furthermore, Jefferson's own words contradict your opinion. He stated that he drew from other philosophers as well as Locke (as well as the common sense of the situation), and he clearly stated that there was nothing original in the document that he put together. Furthermore, the philosophical content of the Declaration conformed to that of the clearly anti-Lockean original declaration of independence, drafted by John Adams and Richard Henry Lee, and passed by Congress on May 10 and 15, 1776.--Other Choices (talk) 01:01, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

chronology of reduction of the text by one-fourth

There are presently two places which mention "having reduced the writing by 1/4" or "deleted nearly a fourth of the text" and the text referring to slave trade. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.247.219.101 (talk) 06:46, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

parchment can we link this to parchment paper of Wikipida

Just wanted to add parchment around the word there seems to be a great deal of discussion on what this document is made of. Thank you
--OxAO (talk) 21:44, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

British Constitution

Multiple references are (incorrectly) made in this article to the British Constitutional Order that misunderstand it as being written or subject to interpretation. This is misleading as the real debate was about natural law, not the constitutional propriety of the laws (there being no British Constitution per se to have recourse to). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Timothy.conder (talk • contribs) 22:59, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

I don't know what is meant by "British Constitutional Order," and there is nothing in the article to imply that the British Constitution was written. The article's references to the British Constitution are sourced to an eminent historian, and reflect mainstream scholarship. If you have a specific disagreement with the wording of a particular sentence, backed up by a reliable source, then please share your thoughts.--Other Choices (talk) 05:16, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Factual accuracy disputed

I haven't taken the time to examine the whole article yet, but I'm seeing too major changes to the lead from the GA approved version of this article. While the GA approved version stated that "Although the wording of the Declaration was approved on July 4, the date of its signing has been disputed. Most historians have concluded that it was signed nearly a month after its adoption, on August 2, 1776, and not on July 4 as is commonly believed" the current version claims "Although the wording of the Declaration was approved on July 4, the date of its signing was August 2". It's evident from the article that it is a disputed issue so the lead should not paint this issue like it's not disputed. I'm also surprised at the inclusion of the statement "The original July 4 United States Declaration of Independence manuscript was lost while all other copies have been derived from this original document". The copy held by the National Archives is widely held to be "the original" and the lead does not make it clear which version was lost. The article states that the first version sent to the french was lost. The copy that was lost and submitted to Congress appears to have been considered lost before the signing. The disputed text claims that the July 4 version was lost. Ryan Vesey 00:07, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, lots of garbage edits have accumulated in the article in the last year or more. It appears no knowledgeable person has been keeping careful watch. I've pruned the garbage. A couple of wording or style choices may have been lost in the cleanup, but we can polish without much problem. —Kevin Myers 03:27, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

User:Rjensen has restored the garbage. Have fun fixing it! —Kevin Myers

if there are problems let's take them one paragraph at a time instead of wholesale erasures. Ryan's complaonts are all about very minor points that can easily be resolved retail. Rjensen (talk) 07:36, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

I don't have the time nor inclination to debate much of the obviously stupid stuff that you've restored. Cheers! —Kevin Myers 07:44, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Redirect from Declaration of Independence to US Declaration of Independence?

Surely it would be more appropriate to offer a disambiguation page to allow for other declarations of independence to be listed appropriately. This redirection seems to show a certain American bias! Ender's Shadow Snr (talk) 23:24, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

You apparently overlooked Declaration of independence. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:41, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 11 January 2013

Add 94.65.29.101 (talk) 13:21, 11 January 2013 (UTC)