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January 18

Sufi orders in South Asia

Which sufi tariqas (orders) are commonly practiced in South Asia (Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka, and Maldives)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.89.43.164 (talk) 00:18, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Naqshbandi is probably one of the most famous. Barelvi is a Sufi-influenced movement which represents traditional folk-mysticism practices that strict reformist or back-to-the-Arab-roots movements among Muslims hate... AnonMoos (talk) 03:13, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I said tariqas (orders) in plural. Please answer the question properly. -- 23:21, 19 January 2014‎ 70.54.66.66

Whatever, dude -- I told you what I know, and gave you some convenient terms to use for conducting further research... AnonMoos (talk) 23:30, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Sufi Orders in Arab World

Which Sufi Orders are commonly practiced throughout the Arab World only (Algeria, Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, United Arab Emirates, Oman, Yemen, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Morocco, Mauritania, Comoros, Sudan, Somalia and Djibouti and Western Sahara)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.54.66.66 (talk) 23:27, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Start from tariqa and the category Sufi orders. It seems we have articles on about 72 different Sufi orders. You could go through them all to construct your list by country, since no such list appears to already exist. 142.150.38.142 (talk) 18:58, 20 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Date Walter Heller said unemployment target was 4%?

When did Walter Heller say "our fiscal policy targets have been recast in terms of 'full' or 'high' employment levels of output, specifically the level of GNP associated with a 4-percent rate of unemployment" as quoted in Peterson and Estenson (1992) "Chapter 9. Public Expenditures, Taxes, and Finance" Income, employment, and economic growth (7th ed., New York: Norton. pp. 364–70. ISBN 0-393-96139-7) and why isn't it plotted on http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/NROU ? EllenCT (talk) 04:20, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

SWIFT Standards Release Guide 2002

I am seeking a copy of the Swift Messaging Standards applicable in the first quarter of 2002 for MT100 and MT103 messages. Information sought includes definition, usage and rules. Is this an ISO standard? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Keltrem (talk • contribs) 23:15, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

See ISO 15022 and ISO 20022 as your starting point. _{Hia10 (talk) 21:03, 19 January 2014 (UTC)}[reply]

January 19

Myth? Legend? Folklore?

An article in the journal Tennessee Anthropologist discusses Old Town (Franklin, Tennessee), and I'm using it to expand the article somewhat. The author notes that the location has long had "a central role in the 'mythological history' of Middle Tennessee". In the context, the author quotes local oral tradition about the site, written descriptions throughout the past couple of centuries, and sources that mention the site without studying it carefully. Since the topic is archaeology, not cultural anthropology, I'm not sure whether "myth" is best, or "legend", or "folklore", or something else — I'm trying to talk about the place this location holds in the minds of the locals; should I say that it's important in local legends or folklore, or important to local mythology, or something else? Part of the local story includes some of the old-style Mound Builders conceptions (thoroughly discredited decades ago), which seem rather superhumanish compared to the Indians whom the storytellers say supplanted them; however, it's not exactly foundational to local culture, or I'd use it without asking. Nyttend (talk) 00:19, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think "folklore" sounds the most neutral. StuRat (talk) 02:14, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Or "oral tradition" - as long as nobody has written it down! Alansplodge (talk) 09:21, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Which must not be discombulated with the "oral tradition" of the neighbouring state of Arkansas. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 20:22, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Even if it has been written down, I'd call it "oral tradition" if it still propagates mostly orally. —Tamfang (talk) 21:32, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"Local lore" and "local tradition" are rather neutral phrases I sometimes use for this kind of thing. "Oral" is sometimes not quite accurate. —Kevin Myers 11:39, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Sculpture discombobulation assistance needed

Nevermind. ~E:71.20.250.51 (talk) 16:41, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. I am attempting to sort out problems relating to two articles that have become problematic due to previous editors confusing the two. I have been attempting to fix it using authorative sources, with some success, but have hit a brick wall. It is my hope that "somebody" with more experience with Art / Sculpture sources could help with this.

Maman is the article that I am working on, the other is Spider (Bourgeois) — both by Louise Bourgeois. The fact that the sculptures tour regularly complicates things; (another complication is the fact that there is a 3rd similar traveling Bourgeois spider: [e.g.]). Currently, I am trying to nail down which permanent collections contain Maman. This shouldn't be too difficult, since there is only one steel casting and six bronze, however... Any assistance will be greatly appreciated, ~thanks, ~Eric:71.20.250.51 (talk) 01:06, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Company logos

Hod do rival businesses get away with using each others logos to compare prices, especially in retail, without infringing copyright or trademark laws? Clover345 (talk) 21:19, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This is very jurisdiction-dependent - in some countries they can, in some they can't. See Comparative advertising. Tevildo (talk) 22:07, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The guiding principle of much of trademark law is that what can be reasonably expected to cause confusion in the mind of the public is forbidden. This doesn't necessarily mean a blanket ban on using a competitor's trademarks... AnonMoos (talk) 23:25, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In many cases, being specifically named in the "leading competitor" spot, rather than generically, can be beneficial. It's not only publicity on the enemy's dime, but an acknowledgment of Company B as a threat worthy of attacking. Whether it's Coke vs Pepsi, Burger King vs McDonalds, Mac vs PC, Democrat vs Republican, Nintendo vs Sega, Ali vs Frazier or mayonnaise vs Miracle Whip, a good feud sells more for both brands than either could sell alone, while leaving the "third-best" brand and behind in the dark.

AnonMoos and Tevildo are also right. Trademarks are filed for certain uses only. Others are only restricted from using the words or images in that same context. So while Coke can't label their cans with a Pepsi logo, fair use includes use for criticism and commentary. I'm certainly no lawyer, but I'd bet that's often invoked (and also dismissed). InedibleHulk (talk) 20:21, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

I don't know how this sits with UK law, but in TV adverts the 'big four' supermarkets use their rivals colours in comparative advertising making it quite clear who the rivals are without showing their logos. For example, see this from Asda comparing themselves with Morrisons (yellow), Tesco (blue) and Sainsbury (orange). Astronaut (talk) 19:02, 21 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Shas becoming pro-settlement party

When did Shas become a pro-settlement party? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.54.66.66 (talk) 23:56, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Their website (linked from our Shas article) mentions it in their 'Statement of Principles' (מסמך עקרונות); in the 'Devloping country' section (פיתוח הארץ). But when that was adopted is not specified. ~:71.20.250.51 (talk) 05:04, 20 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Hebrew phrase pituakh haarets means "the development of the Land", where haarets without further specification generally refers to the holy land or land of Israel. It does not mean "developing country" in the ordinary sense of that English phrase... AnonMoos (talk) 05:40, 20 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

For context, in part from section, the statement talks about the "perifery" (הפריפריה); beginning with... (Google translation):

Shas supports the development of all parts of the Land of Israel: Judea and Samaria, Galilee and Negev Development. Shas will thus be promoting the following topics: Continued development of settlements in Judea and Samaria under the decisions of the Knesset and the government. Development of the Negev and Galilee to strengthen the periphery ...

(My knowledge of Hebrew is minimal; and am relying on Google translation) ~:71.20.250.51 (talk) 17:12, 20 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I know quite a bit about Hebrew grammar, etymology, and historical linguistics, but my ability to read long passages of Hebrew text without intensively consulting a dictionary is very limited. The passage from the current Shas platform seems unlikely to provide the answer to the particular historical question you're interested in, so I don't see any real reason to try to get to grips with it. Why not try searching through Jewish Telegraphic Agency archives, or other similar relevant on-line newspaper/magazine archives? -- AnonMoos (talk) 21:52, 20 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

January 21

File:Van Gogh - Die Brücke von Langlois in Arles1.jpeg

I was just wondering if this water color by Vincent is still owned by a private collector as it states in the file, how current is your information? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Caterina49 (talk • contribs) 00:20, 21 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

~~In his 2006 edition of The Life and Work of Van Gogh, Nordenfalk states that the painting is owned by a collector.~~

But, Frommer's (2011) identifies the painting as part of the Groninger Museum's collection in the passage about the museum. [But, the 1883 date is incorrect]
McDonald, George. Frommer's Belgium, Holland and Luxembourg. John Wiley & Sons; 26 April 2011. ISBN 978-0-470-88766-0. p. 414.

Nordenfalk, Carl. The Life And Work Of Van Gogh. Kessinger Publishing; 31 July 2006. ISBN 978-1-4286-5725-0. p. 205.

~~Of course the problem could stem from the fact that this is part of a series of the same subject, in 1888: Langlois Bridge at Arles (Van Gogh series).~~ [Searching with catalog numbers (F 1480, JH 1382) might be helpful.]

► It was sold on 4 November 2003 at Christie's (Sale 1299, Lot 21); buyer not specified; presumably a private party.

~Eric:71.20.250.51 (talk) 02:09, 21 January 2014 (UTC) [Modified:03:33, 21 January 2014 (UTC) strikout obsolete or misleading inforation][reply]

...and here's a link to the image on Wikipedia File:Van Gogh - Die Brücke von Langlois in Arles1.jpeg Astronaut (talk) 17:18, 21 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Internal reaction of the Invasion of Grenada

The article Invasion of Grenada only mentions the U.S. and international reactions, but does not mention the internal reaction (i.e. of the locals/Grenadines). Is there anywhere else that has information on their reaction? Thanks in advance, Sunfoo (talk) 20:09, 21 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Here are links to a couple of articles on this question: [1] [2] Marco polo (talk) 02:01, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Sunfoo (talk) 19:48, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

January 22

Is "scientific poetry" replacing pure or traditional poetry

Today, scientific findings are becoming poetic themes, and it seems that this form of poetry is gaining strength and popularity. What then will happen to the poets who are exclusively trained in the humanities not in the sciences? Will scientific poetry kill traditional, lexical, and subjective poetry and make poetry a scientific compliment? (It would be great if you could cite literary academics.)

There are a number of articles on the synthesis of the sciences and poetry. Most of these articles argue that poetry is the vehicle that disseminated important scientific findings, like that of the Greeks or that of the 20th century scientists, who presented their works in verse. Sciences, then, are never different from poetry. However, as I can see it, the integration will not work for the benefit of both but only for the benefit of the sciences. Poetry is grounded on itself and this so-called “scientific poetry” is grounded on science.

If “scientific poetry” uses an accepted scientific belief as a poetic theme, poetry, obviously, becomes a complimentary activity, or a past time for a scientist to express his scientific indulgence. Unsurprisingly, most of these “scientific poems” are mathematical at best, and, not to mention, technical. And this so called "scientific poetry" makes poetry as a means to an ends - a vehicle to promote rigorous and objective thinking. Hence, to criticize or analyze it requires one to look at science, not at the poem.49.144.146.30 (talk) 03:06, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm glad you mentioned literary academics, because their published opinions, if any, would be all we could provide in answer to the issues raised. We could not proffer our own views, because that would be breaching at least WP:CRYSTAL, WP:OR and WP:FORUM. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 03:58, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'll go out on a limb and say "nothing" and "no" - since Wikipedia has no article on scientific poetry and the term is only used in the article of Sully Prudhomme (died 1907). "Science poetry" is only mentioned in the article on Celia Berrell. In contrast we have a large number of articles on modern poets who write on "humanities themes". See Category:20th-century poets and Category:21st-century poets. Rmhermen (talk) 04:54, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Would you mind elaborating on exactly what you're asking? Maybe it's just me, but I read a lot of what would be called science (from popular books to journal articles), I cannot think of anyone presenting anything in verse; nor am I aware of poetry about most of such subject matters. I've read your question about ten times, I'm not really sure I understand what it is you are asking/talking about.Phoenixia1177 (talk) 06:28, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Phoenixia1177, what do you mean you don't understand (please explain more)? If you what you mean is, "it is odd to combine poetry and science, because these two fields are almost two worlds apart, just like music and political science", then I must say that there are certain people who thinks so. These people consider that a scientific idea transformed into stanzas, like what traditional poetry looks like, will make a scientific idea poetic. There's even a book about it that addressed science or scientific poetry very lightly, in a manner not sufficient to defend the poetic worth of this so-called "scientific poetry". Again, What would happen to pure poetry, one that is grounded on itself if this kind of "poetry" will ever be popular? Here's the link to the online pdf version of the book. http://www.durham.net/~neilmac/sciencepoetry.pdf

I mentioned above that some "scientific poetry" are mathematical at best. Here's an example taken from the book: (Sorry, I don't know how to paste the text in stanzas)

Equation of (E)motion
Steven K. Smith

Let r = f(Θ,Φ,Ρ,t) and let r
describe the world line of some person
with a family, friends, hopes, et cetera...
for a spherical coordinate system centered
on the earth and constrained such that
for all Ρ, Ρd < Ρ < Ρu and Ρu - Ρd <<
the mean radius of the earth, 0.
Then the instantaneous position ri
of this person is given by
f(Θi, Φ i, Ρi, ti) where i represents
some instant between birth at t = t0
and death at t = tN.
Also let q = g (Θ,Φ,Ρ, t)
be the world line of a person
prone to drunk driving.

Then δ/δt (q) = v is the speed of q
and if at t = ti vi = too fast
for the conditions of the road, weather,
and the time interval since his last drink
and if qi = ri then there exists a solution
for the equation of motion for r
at t > tN where the world line, f(Θ,Φ,Ρ, t),
passes through a hospital, morgue, and funeral home
and the brief convergence of the
tear dampened world lines of family and friends
before coming to a final position
rf = f(Θ f, Φ f, Ρf, tf) where Ρf < Ρ0
and Ρ0 - Ρf = six feet (1.83 meters).

49.144.146.30 (talk) 10:35, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not doubting that such things exist. However, I have yet to see this used as a common method of discussing/exploring/etc. mathematics or science; nor do the majority of poems appear to be in such a style. In short, I'm sure you could drum up a few more such poems, but I'm not following why this would replace traditional poetry, nor am I seeing any evidence that it is, indeed, even a common way of writing poetry. Finally, it appears less that you are asking a specific question and more that you are presenting a half-essay without any context. My point: without some context to what you are asking and asking for, the answer appears to be an obvious, no - but, since you bothered to ask, I'm guessing you must have some other idea in mind, but it is not very clear what that idea/question is; thus, please elaborate on that matter.Phoenixia1177 (talk) 10:43, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, there are, no doubt, a few scientists who write and read such poetry for fun, but I would offer very long odds against it becoming anything more than a minority pastime. I can't see it ever being taken as either serious science or serious poetry. Dbfirs 18:32, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"Unsurprisingly, most of these “scientific poems” are mathematical at best". I'm not sure what that means, but there is such a thing as "mathematical poetry" as espoused by Bob Grumman. it's very much in the tradition of radical avant-garde verse of the type that dates back to Dada and Pound, and which had a revival in the 1960s in the form of minimalist poetry. It's always been a very very minority form of literature. What's most remarkable about the history of poetry in the 20th - 21st century is the fact that it has mostly withdrawn from the modernist avant-garde phase to become more direct and discursive, unlike art, which has remained within the paradigm of the avant-garde. The "poem" you quote does not seem very scientific to me, but rather a deliberately Duchampian conflation of pseudo-scientific rhetoric with imagery of human mess and chaos, representing the clash of the two. Paul B (talk) 18:38, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

p.s. I used the poem template so that Steven's unreadable poem at least looks more like a readable poem. Paul B (talk) 19:03, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Aside from the classic "There was a young lady named Bright", there's also:

Condensed Story of Ms Farad, by A. P. French

Miss Farad was pretty and sensual

And charged to a reckless potential;

But a rascal named Ohm

Conducted her home -

Her decline was, alas, exponential.

The American Physical Society apparently has too much time on its hands, as it conducted a limerick contest, of which the above was one of the entries.[3]

Clarityfiend (talk) 01:47, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

49.144.146.30 -- There's the "Space-Child's Mother Goose", which is quite amusing and moderately famous in some circles 50 years ago, but much more of a literary stunt than a serious movement... AnonMoos (talk) 04:12, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There are lots of jokey mathematical poems (The Kiss Precise is a famous example, and there is a Math Overflow thread with more.[4] Here's one that I like about the halting problem. But I'd agree none of these particularly aim to cross the divide of The Two Cultures that the OP seemed to have in mind. Piet Hein's "Grooks" might come closer, as Hein was a physicist, though the Grooks mostly weren't especially scientifically oriented. Euclid alone has looked on Beauty bare is a famous, often-parodied poem by Edna St. Vincent Millay, a conventional (i.e. non-mathematical) poet, that tries to express the emotion of mathematical wonder from "the other side". Searching for "mathematician and poet" on either Wikipedia or the WWW finds a number of interesting pages. No I don't think there is any conflict between different types of poetry. The sonnet didn't kill off the limerick or vice versa. Scientific doggerel gets written because it's fun and lightens up presentations. I don't think anyone takes it too seriously. 50.0.121.102 (talk) 04:59, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

U.S. National Guard insignia

I have a printed photo of four National Guardsmen in 1963, shown on maneuvers in Michigan. One's an officer (either a major or a light colonel), and I can't see the ranks of the other three, although I'm guessing that they're officers. The officer and one other man have insignia on their left lapels looking like a bird (eagle?) on top of a shield, comparable in shape to the logo of the National Park Service. The other two have insignia that look either like a rifle or a stick figure (they're in the background and I can't see them as well). The end that's feet of the figure/butt of the rifle is pointing toward the men's faces, and the head/muzzle points toward the back of the men's heads. What could these insignia mean? 149.160.172.39 (talk) 21:20, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

United States Army branch insignia may be of some help - these are apparently worn on lapels/collars. The first seems to be an aide-de-camp's insignia; hard to tell what the others are. Andrew Gray (talk) 21:59, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

January 23

British money

I've been watching Mr Selfridge lately and in a recent episode he pulled some money from his coat. It was odd though and I'm wondering if you could tell me what I was seeing. He pulled out sheets of what I would think was tissue paper, if I didn't know better. It was white and had some writing on it. The sheets were about as large as a modern day Kleenex. Were these supposed to be some sort of bank script? Dismas|^(talk) 02:27, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

From what I've seen in old movies, British banknotes were typically that large. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:36, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

On the same note ...

Per the preceding question, when did banknotes shrink to their current size? Clarityfiend (talk) 03:50, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

From what I can tell from perusing the "Standard Catalog of World Paper Money Volume Two", large whitish Bank of England notes were printed as late as the 1950s, but there were quite different "Treasury Notes" in circulation in WW1, and "Emergency issue" Bank of England notes in circulation in WW2... AnonMoos (talk) 04:02, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]