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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by OutofTheBoxThinker (talk | contribs) at 15:44, 5 November 2014 (→Autism rights movement). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Individuals with autism

Closing per request at WP:ANRFC. Editors were broadly in favor of X with autism supported by the evidence that this is a common convention in scholarly articles when referring to people and individuals (in addition to other terms like participants) who have the condition. That said, there are a limited number of things that can sensibly fit under "X", so please do not use this close as a free-for-all for different plural nouns. I will note that Anthonyhcole's comment that there are nuances of "X diagnosed with" may be important. One possible way to resolve this without another RFC is to make a note within the article text itself so that readers understand what information refers to those who have had a formal diagnosis. Opposition against this language did not advance adequate evidence that phrasings in this form were uncommon or unexpected in this context. I'll also note that the Washington Times does not have editorial oversight to the source provided in this RfC. I, JethroBT drop me a line 06:03, 11 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

In the field of autism research, people are not referred at "autistic individuals", but instead "individuals with autism". This is easily verified by reading the scientific articles cited in the article. I am One of Many (talk) 00:11, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This is true. "Individuals with autism" is terminology used by reliable sources. If you go back to the early 90's, you can find references to "autistic individuals", but person first language is used by recent reliable sources.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23494559
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19765010
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15805158
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22449217
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20464465
--BoboMeowCat (talk) 00:27, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I completely agree. The main reason is that it is a form of labeling. A person with autism is more than autistic. Consider another example to see the point. A person with cancer we say "has cancer". Thus, it is appropriate to say "persons with cancer" or "persons having cancer" but not appropriate to say "cancerous persons". There are many other examples in which we appropriately use "has" or "with" but do not label people with a term. A grand parent may have dementia, but it is not appropriate to call them demented.I am One of Many (talk) 02:41, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Did you just compare a harmless neurological variant to a disease?
In any event, this discussion is already closed. See "Autistic person" versus "person with autism" above and do not re-open it.Muffinator (talk) 07:07, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Muffinator, please read WP:ADVOCACY. Additionally, above is a weak consensus non-admin closure, my understanding is any non-involved editor can simply reopen it. We can also start another discussion.--BoboMeowCat (talk) 12:56, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
As the recent edits I have made improve neutral point of view rather than being at the expense of it, they cannot be considered advocacy under that definition. The current writing style on most autism-related articles is overtly negative. Muffinator (talk) 14:35, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Muffinator, do you consider it negative when autism is referred to as a diagnosed condition? --BoboMeowCat (talk) 15:59, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No. I do not. Psychologists/psychiatrists diagnose people as autistic all the time; it's just a statement of fact. "Condition" is a bit of strange word choice, but not necessarily negative. Muffinator (talk) 17:43, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Professional don't call people autistic. From the CDC, people are diagnosed with an ASD. From the CDC, a [1] story from a person with ASD.I am One of Many (talk) 17:55, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If person-first has predominated in the literature for the last 20 years, then perhaps we should reflect that. What we need is an authoritative secondary (ideally) source that discusses this very question, rather than assertions from editors or collections of examples. Anyone know of an impartial scholarly secondary source that addresses the use of person-first language in the scholarly literature? --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 07:30, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The Autistic Self-Advocacy Network, the Thinking Person's Guide to Autism, the Washington Times, and the Autism Women's Network all prefer Autistic-first language.[1][2][3][4] Muffinator (talk) 07:55, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The policy that the Autism National Committee (AutCom) has recently adopted is to use both, in the spirit of inclusion. There are some "old-timers", autistic people from way back, who remember when personhood used to be much more in question than it is now (though we still have a long way to go obviously). These are nonverbal people who were institutionalized and treated like ciphers or worse... subjected to hardcore ABA with aversives.... very traumatic. They use person-first language for that reason: they view themselves as people, first and foremost, because for so long, they weren't seen as people. They're among the "elders" of our movement, who walked a harder road. These people are now a minority in community, sure. But if we don't we respect minorities, what are we? That's why I like AutCom's policy and suggest using both, definitely "autistic person" more often to reflect the obvious level of preference, but don't entirely abandon "person with autism", e.g. when it's grammatically more natural. --Middle 8 (leave me alone • talk to me • COI?) 19:35, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I can't find anything on their site about using both version. They only user "people with autism" [2]. I think the only place where people are still referred to as autistic is on Wikipedia. --I am One of Many (talk) 04:47, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I do understand that opinions vary on proper language. To see how reliable sources handle it, I searched PubMed for articles dated 2014 (about 6 months) with "autistic X" in the title, and for articles dated 1 June 2014 or later (about one month) with "X with autism" in the title. (I would welcome someone replicating my work.)
Lists of articles

Autistic X dated 1 January 2014 or later

  1. Evans B (2014). "The foundations of autism: the law concerning psychotic, schizophrenic, and autistic children in 1950s and 1960s britain". Bull Hist Med. 88 (2): 253–85. doi:10.1353/bhm.2014.0033. PMID 24976162.
  2. Kirino E (2014). "Efficacy and tolerability of pharmacotherapy options for the treatment of irritability in autistic children". Clin Med Insights Pediatr. 8: 17–30. doi:10.4137/CMPed.S8304. PMC 4051788. PMID 24932108.
  3. Tenenbaum EJ, Amso D, Abar B, Sheinkopf SJ (2014). "Attention and word learning in autistic, language delayed and typically developing children". Front Psychol. 5: 490. doi:10.3389/fpsyg.2014.00490. PMC 4033261. PMID 24904503.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link) CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (link)
  4. Zeidán-Chuliá F, de Oliveira BH, Salmina AB; et al. (2014). "Altered expression of Alzheimer's disease-related genes in the cerebellum of autistic patients: a model for disrupted brain connectome and therapy". Cell Death Dis. 5: e1250. doi:10.1038/cddis.2014.227. PMC 4047885. PMID 24853428. {{cite journal}}: Explicit use of et al. in: |author= (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  5. Cozzolino R, De Magistris L, Saggese P; et al. (2014). "Use of solid-phase microextraction coupled to gas chromatography-mass spectrometry for determination of urinary volatile organic compounds in autistic children compared with healthy controls". Anal Bioanal Chem. 406 (19): 4649–62. doi:10.1007/s00216-014-7855-z. PMID 24828982. {{cite journal}}: Explicit use of et al. in: |author= (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  6. Cook R, Brewer R, Shah P, Bird G (2014). "Intact Facial Adaptation in Autistic Adults". Autism Res. doi:10.1002/aur.1381. PMID 24757172. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  7. Sokolov O, Kost N, Andreeva O; et al. (2014). "Autistic children display elevated urine levels of bovine casomorphin-7 immunoreactivity". Peptides. 56: 68–71. doi:10.1016/j.peptides.2014.03.007. PMID 24657283. {{cite journal}}: Explicit use of et al. in: |author= (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  8. Murshid EZ (2014). "Diet, oral hygiene practices and dental health in autistic children in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia". Oral Health Dent Manag. 13 (1): 91–6. PMID 24603923. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
  9. Kałużna-Czaplińska J, Zurawicz E, Struck W, Markuszewski M (2014). "Identification of organic acids as potential biomarkers in the urine of autistic children using gas chromatography/mass spectrometry". J. Chromatogr. B Analyt. Technol. Biomed. Life Sci. doi:10.1016/j.jchromb.2014.01.041. PMID 24565890. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  10. Ishitobi M, Kawatani M, Asano M; et al. (2014). "Quetiapine responsive catatonia in an autistic patient with comorbid bipolar disorder and idiopathic basal ganglia calcification". Brain Dev. doi:10.1016/j.braindev.2013.12.005. PMID 24434185. {{cite journal}}: Explicit use of et al. in: |author= (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  11. Segal NL (2014). "Stolen twin: fascination and curiosity/twin research reports: evolution of sleep length; dental treatment of craniopagus twins; cryopreserved double embryo transfer; gender options in multiple pregnancy/current events: appendectomy in one twin; autistic twin marathon runners; 3D facial recognition; twin biathletes". Twin Res Hum Genet. 17 (1): 56–61. doi:10.1017/thg.2013.88. PMID 24418634. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
  12. Bashir S, Al-Ayadhi LY (2014). "Effect of camel milk on thymus and activation-regulated chemokine in autistic children: double-blind study". Pediatr. Res. 75 (4): 559–63. doi:10.1038/pr.2013.248. PMID 24375082. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
  13. White SJ, Frith U, Rellecke J, Al-Noor Z, Gilbert SJ (2014). "Autistic adolescents show atypical activation of the brain's mentalizing system even without a prior history of mentalizing problems". Neuropsychologia. 56: 17–25. doi:10.1016/j.neuropsychologia.2013.12.013. PMID 24361475. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  14. Li YW, Ma L, Sui B, Cao CH, Liu XD (2014). "Etomidate with or without flumazenil anesthesia for stem cell transplantation in autistic children". Drug Metabol Drug Interact. 29 (1): 47–51. doi:10.1515/dmdi-2013-0043. PMID 24225126.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  15. Madsen GF, Bilenberg N, Cantio C, Oranje B (2014). "Increased prepulse inhibition and sensitization of the startle reflex in autistic children". Autism Res. 7 (1): 94–103. doi:10.1002/aur.1337. PMID 24124111. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  16. Mukherjee S, Rupani K, Dave M, Subramanyam A, Shah H, Kamath R (2014). "Evaluation of effectiveness of integrated intervention in autistic children". Indian J Pediatr. 81 (4): 339–45. doi:10.1007/s12098-013-1169-6. PMID 24057967. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  17. Devine DP (2014). "Self-injurious behaviour in autistic children: a neuro-developmental theory of social and environmental isolation". Psychopharmacology (Berl.). 231 (6): 979–97. doi:10.1007/s00213-013-3279-2. PMID 24057764. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
  18. Majewska MD, Hill M, Urbanowicz E; et al. (2014). "Marked elevation of adrenal steroids, especially androgens, in saliva of prepubertal autistic children". Eur Child Adolesc Psychiatry. 23 (6): 485–98. doi:10.1007/s00787-013-0472-0. PMC 4042015. PMID 24043498. {{cite journal}}: Explicit use of et al. in: |author= (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  19. Wachtel LE, Reti IM, Ying H (2014). "Stability of intraocular pressure after retinal reattachment surgery during electroconvulsive therapy for intractable self-injury in a 12-year-old autistic boy". J ECT. 30 (1): 73–6. doi:10.1097/YCT.0b013e31829b2d61. PMID 23812023. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  20. El-Baz F, Hamza RT, Ayad MS, Mahmoud NH (2014). "Hyperandrogenemia in male autistic children and adolescents: relation to disease severity". Int J Adolesc Med Health. 26 (1): 79–84. doi:10.1515/ijamh-2012-0116. PMID 23612632.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
X with autism dated 1 June 2014 or later
  1. Daley TC, Weisner T, Singhal N (2014). "Adults with autism in India: A mixed-method approach to make meaning of daily routines". Soc Sci Med. 116C: 142–149. doi:10.1016/j.socscimed.2014.06.052. PMID 24998867. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  2. Heyvaert M, Saenen L, Campbell JM, Maes B, Onghena P (2014). "Efficacy of behavioral interventions for reducing problem behavior in persons with autism: An updated quantitative synthesis of single-subject research". Res Dev Disabil. 35 (10): 2463–2476. doi:10.1016/j.ridd.2014.06.017. PMID 24992447. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  3. Dekker V, Nauta MH, Mulder EJ, Timmerman ME, de Bildt A (2014). "A randomized controlled study of a social skills training for preadolescent children with autism spectrum disorders: generalization of skills by training parents and teachers?". BMC Psychiatry. 14 (1): 189. doi:10.1186/1471-244X-14-189. PMID 24989854. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link) CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (link)
  4. Taurines R, Schwenck C, Lyttwin B; et al. (2014). "Oxytocin plasma concentrations in children and adolescents with autism spectrum disorder: correlation with autistic symptomatology". Atten Defic Hyperact Disord. doi:10.1007/s12402-014-0145-y. PMID 24989441. {{cite journal}}: Explicit use of et al. in: |author= (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  5. Majdalany LM, Wilder DA, Greif A, Mathisen D, Saini V (2014). "Comparing massed-trial instruction, distributed-trial instruction, and task interspersal to teach tacts to children with autism spectrum disorders". J Appl Behav Anal. doi:10.1002/jaba.149. PMID 24988891. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  6. Papagiannopoulou EA, Chitty KM, Hermens DF, Hickie IB, Lagopoulos J (2014). "A systematic review and meta-analysis of eye-tracking studies in children with autism spectrum disorders". Soc Neurosci: 1–23. doi:10.1080/17470919.2014.934966. PMID 24988218. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  7. Maskey M, Lowry J, Rodgers J, McConachie H, Parr JR (2014). "Reducing Specific Phobia/Fear in Young People with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASDs) through a Virtual Reality Environment Intervention". PLoS ONE. 9 (7): e100374. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0100374. PMID 24987957.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link) CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (link)
  8. Zhang QB, Jiang LF, Kong LY, Lu YJ (2014). "Serum Brain-derived neurotrophic factor levels in Chinese children with autism spectrum disorders: A pilot study". Int. J. Dev. Neurosci. doi:10.1016/j.ijdevneu.2014.06.013. PMID 24984148. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  9. Nuske HJ, Vivanti G, Dissanayake C (2014). "Reactivity to fearful expressions of familiar and unfamiliar people in children with autism: an eye-tracking pupillometry study". J Neurodev Disord. 6 (1): 14. doi:10.1186/1866-1955-6-14. PMC 4064262. PMID 24982695.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link) CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (link)
  10. Gentile I, Zappulo E, Bonavolta R; et al. (2014). "Prevalence of Herpes Simplex Virus 1 and 2 Antibodies in Patients with Autism Spectrum Disorders". In Vivo. 28 (4): 667–671. PMID 24982239. {{cite journal}}: Explicit use of et al. in: |author= (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  11. Gentile I, Zappulo E, Bonavolta R; et al. (2014). "Exposure to Varicella Zoster Virus Is Higher in Children with Autism Spectrum Disorder than in Healthy Controls. Results from a Case-control Study". In Vivo. 28 (4): 627–631. PMID 24982233. {{cite journal}}: Explicit use of et al. in: |author= (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  12. Gentile I, Zappulo E, Bonavolta R; et al. (2014). "Prevalence and Titre of Antibodies to Cytomegalovirus and Epstein-Barr Virus in Patients with Autism Spectrum Disorder". In Vivo. 28 (4): 621–626. PMID 24982232. {{cite journal}}: Explicit use of et al. in: |author= (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  13. Diolordi L, Del Balzo V, Bernabei P, Vitiello V, Donini LM (2014). "Eating habits and dietary patterns in children with autism". Eat Weight Disord. doi:10.1007/s40519-014-0137-0. PMID 24981567. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  14. Cristancho P, Akkineni K, Constantino JN, Carter AR, O'Reardon JP (2014). "Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation in a 15-Year-Old Patient With Autism and Comorbid Depression". J ECT. doi:10.1097/YCT.0000000000000156. PMID 24979652. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  15. Tellegen CL, Sanders MR (2014). "A Randomized Controlled Trial Evaluating a Brief Parenting Program With Children With Autism Spectrum Disorders". J Consult Clin Psychol. doi:10.1037/a0037246. PMID 24979315. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
  16. Broder-Fingert S, Brazauskas K, Lindgren K, Iannuzzi D, Van Cleave J (2014). "Prevalence of overweight and obesity in a large clinical sample of children with autism". Acad Pediatr. 14 (4): 408–14. doi:10.1016/j.acap.2014.04.004. PMID 24976353.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  17. Zuckerman KE, Lindly OJ, Bethell CD, Kuhlthau K (2014). "Family impacts among children with autism spectrum disorder: the role of health care quality". Acad Pediatr. 14 (4): 398–407. doi:10.1016/j.acap.2014.03.011. PMID 24976352.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  18. Jain A, Spencer D, Yang W; et al. (2014). "Injuries among children with autism spectrum disorder". Acad Pediatr. 14 (4): 390–7. doi:10.1016/j.acap.2014.03.012. PMID 24976351. {{cite journal}}: Explicit use of et al. in: |author= (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  19. Vernon TW (2014). "Fostering a Social Child with Autism: A Moment-By-Moment Sequential Analysis of an Early Social Engagement Intervention". J Autism Dev Disord. doi:10.1007/s10803-014-2173-z. PMID 24974256. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
  20. Yang HC, Lee IC, Lee IC (2014). "Visual Feedback and Target Size Effects on Reach-to-Grasp Tasks in Children with Autism". J Autism Dev Disord. doi:10.1007/s10803-014-2165-z. PMID 24974254. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  21. Richdale AL, Baker E, Short M, Gradisar M (2014). "The role of insomnia, pre-sleep arousal and psychopathology symptoms in daytime impairment in adolescents with high-functioning autism spectrum disorder". Sleep Med. doi:10.1016/j.sleep.2014.05.005. PMID 24974199. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  22. Sobotka SA, Deal SB, Casper TJ, Booth KV, Listernick RH (2014). "Petechial rash in a child with autism and trisomy 21". Pediatr Ann. 43 (6): 224–6. doi:10.3928/00904481-20140522-05. PMID 24972417. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  23. Poslawsky IE, Naber FB, Bakermans-Kranenburg MJ, De Jonge MV, Van Engeland H, Van IJzendoorn MH (2014). "Development of a Video-feedback Intervention to promote Positive Parenting for Children with Autism (VIPP-AUTI)". Attach Hum Dev. 16 (4): 343–55. doi:10.1080/14616734.2014.912487. PMID 24972103. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  24. Gadow KD, Smith RM, Pinsonneault JK (2014). "Serotonin 2A Receptor Gene (HTR2A) Regulatory Variants: Possible Association with Severity of Depression Symptoms in Children with Autism Spectrum Disorder". Cogn Behav Neurol. 27 (2): 107–16. doi:10.1097/WNN.0000000000000028. PMID 24968012. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  25. Pacheva I, Panov G, Gillberg C, Neville B (2014). "A girl with tuberous sclerosis complex presenting with severe epilepsy and electrical status epilepticus during sleep, and with high-functioning autism and mutism". Cogn Behav Neurol. 27 (2): 88–95. doi:10.1097/WNN.0000000000000026. PMID 24968009. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  26. McCain S, Tan S, Mark D (2014). "Management of a patient with autism following ingestion of a foreign body". BMJ Case Rep. 2014. doi:10.1136/bcr-2014-204185. PMID 24966264.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  27. Varella AA, de Souza DG (2014). "Emergence of auditory-visual relations from a visual-visual baseline with auditory-specific consequences in individuals with autism". J Exp Anal Behav. doi:10.1002/jeab.93. PMID 24965883. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
  28. Kyriakopoulos M, Stringaris A, Manolesou S; et al. (2014). "Determination of psychosis-related clinical profiles in children with autism spectrum disorders using latent class analysis". Eur Child Adolesc Psychiatry. doi:10.1007/s00787-014-0576-1. PMID 24965798. {{cite journal}}: Explicit use of et al. in: |author= (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  29. Deepmala, Agrawal M (2014). "Use of Propranolol for Hypersexual Behavior in an Adolescent With Autism: Case Report". Ann Pharmacother. doi:10.1177/1060028014541630. PMID 24965689. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
  30. Akechi H, Stein T, Senju A; et al. (2014). "Absence of Preferential Unconscious Processing of Eye Contact in Adolescents With Autism Spectrum Disorder". Autism Res. doi:10.1002/aur.1397. PMID 24962761. {{cite journal}}: Explicit use of et al. in: |author= (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  31. Marshall J, Ware R, Ziviani J, Hill RJ, Dodrill P (2014). "Efficacy of interventions to improve feeding difficulties in children with autism spectrum disorders: a systematic review and meta-analysis". Child Care Health Dev. doi:10.1111/cch.12157. PMID 24962184. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  32. Thurm A, Manwaring SS, Swineford L, Farmer C (2014). "Longitudinal study of symptom severity and language in minimally verbal children with autism". J Child Psychol Psychiatry. doi:10.1111/jcpp.12285. PMID 24961159. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  33. McCrimmon AW, Matchullis RL, Altomare AA (2014). "Resilience and emotional intelligence in children with high-functioning autism spectrum disorder". Dev Neurorehabil: 1–8. doi:10.3109/17518423.2014.927017. PMID 24960312. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  34. Falkmer M, Black M, Tang J; et al. (2014). "Local visual perception bias in children with high-functioning autism spectrum disorders; do we have the whole picture?". Dev Neurorehabil: 1–6. doi:10.3109/17518423.2014.928387. PMID 24960245. {{cite journal}}: Explicit use of et al. in: |author= (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  35. Kasari C, Lawton K, Shih W; et al. (2014). "Caregiver-Mediated Intervention for Low-Resourced Preschoolers With Autism: An RCT". Pediatrics. 134 (1): e72–9. doi:10.1542/peds.2013-3229. PMID 24958585. {{cite journal}}: Explicit use of et al. in: |author= (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  36. Buck TR, Viskochil J, Farley M; et al. (2014). "Psychiatric Comorbidity and Medication Use in Adults with Autism Spectrum Disorder". J Autism Dev Disord. doi:10.1007/s10803-014-2170-2. PMID 24958436. {{cite journal}}: Explicit use of et al. in: |author= (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  37. Georgiades S, Boyle M, Szatmari P; et al. (2014). "Modeling the Phenotypic Architecture of Autism Symptoms from Time of Diagnosis to Age 6". J Autism Dev Disord. doi:10.1007/s10803-014-2167-x. PMID 24958435. {{cite journal}}: Explicit use of et al. in: |author= (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  38. Funahashi Y, Karashima C, Hoshiyama M (2014). "Compensatory Postural Sway While Seated Posture During Tasks in Children with Autism Spectrum Disorder". Occup Ther Int. doi:10.1002/oti.1375. PMID 24956573. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  39. Grainger C, Williams DM, Lind SE (2014). "Metacognition, Metamemory, and Mindreading in High-Functioning Adults With Autism Spectrum Disorder". J Abnorm Psychol. doi:10.1037/a0036531. PMID 24955572. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
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I found 20 articles since January 1 using "autistic X", and 82 since June 1 using "X with autism".
I'm not advocating we duplicate the language in the scholarly literature (which heavily favours "X with autism") if the majority of people on the spectrum who care prefer "autistic X". I wonder if there is a good, independent, unbiased, scholarly review or survey that says which language people described as autistic or having autism prefer. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 10:42, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I think we should go with reliable sources. Reading above, it appears the preference for "autistic person" is related an editor's point of view, specifically, the point of view that autism is "harmless neurological variant". This isn't supported by reliable sources. Even if we found RS regarding what high functioning individuals with autism often prefer, this would still only apply to a subset of individuals with autism spectrum disorder, considering low functioning individuals with autism cannot express such a preference, due to cognitive impairments and inability to speak. Maybe individuals significantly more impaired might oppose characterization of "harmless neurological variant" and language adopted to suggest that. Either way, "harmless neurological variant" does not represent RS and the language being suggested does not represent the reliable sources.--BoboMeowCat (talk) 13:41, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The popularity of one styling as a default is not really relevant as much as cases wherein a style is specifically selected for evidence-based reasons. Furthermore, the assertion that nonverbal individuals cannot express themselves through writing is pretty ridiculous. Most autistic people are verbal anyway, so if it's a popularity contest, the nonverbal statistic is insignificant. Muffinator (talk) 14:35, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That wasn’t my assertion. My assertion was those with severe autism, which is not rare, [[3]] may not agree with advocacy which aims to present autism as a “harmless neurological variant” or language specifically adopted to support this, but either way, I think we should go with the reliable sources. The reliable sources do not present autism as a "harmless neurological variant" and this is for evidence based reasons. High functioning individuals with autism, who do well, do not change fact that autism is a diagnosed condition. We should use the person-first language which is standard in cases of diagnosed conditions, because according to the reliable sources, that is what autism is. Attempting to adopt language which presents autism as something other than a diagnosed condition, in contrast to the reliable sources, would seem to be a case of WP:ADVOCACY --BoboMeowCat (talk) 15:34, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. The word usage should reflect how the relevant scientific and diagnostic community expresses the relationship between a person and ASD. One way around this is to introduce a new section on say "social and political issues". If there is a political issue about whether to say "autistic person" or "person with autism" it can be discussed there if there are sources to back up such a section. However, this article purports to present professional diagnostic criteria and scientific research, so word usage should follow sources.I am One of Many (talk) 16:56, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes it is not a harmless variant like attached earlobes. It is a psychiatric mental illness. This is why it is in the DSM. We need to follow the literature. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 04:24, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The DSM also includes gender dysphoria, previously under the title of gender identity disorder. It once included homosexuality. "Inclusion in the DSM" is not a reliable source with which to assert that autism is a mental illness or that autism is harmful. Muffinator (talk) 07:57, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Just because the DSM, quite a while ago, had something that is now not considered a disorder listed as one is completely irrelevant. Saying the DSM is not an RS is ridiculous. Dbrodbeck (talk) 13:26, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Never said the DSM itself is not an RS, merely that one should not make assumptions about what it includes. The DSM is used for definitions and diagnostic criteria. It does not include value judgments on whether the items described in it are good or bad, therefore such judgments cannot be made based solely on the fact that something is mentioned. Muffinator (talk) 18:57, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment (crossposted from ANI): Looking briefly over how the issue has developed, I just wanted to stress the "weak" part of "weak consensus" in the previous section. I suggested continued discussion in the close, and it seems to me that this has happened; more importantly, the question has attracted new, substantial arguments that were not made during the RfC. IMO this is more than enough to make the previous close obsolete. Sunrise (talk) 07:28, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support X with autism, as this is the most common usage in medical literature. -- CFCF 🍌 (email) 07:42, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'll support X with autism, until a very solid scholarly source is produced that demonstrates a large proportion of people with the diagnosis prefer other language. I may still stick with the way our sources do it even then; but I will reconsider with an open mind. Per others here, Muffinator, this article addresses people with a diagnosis that places them at the profoundly socially- and cognitively-disabled end of the spectrum: a serious mental illness. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 11:44, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • If these terms are regarded as equivalent, then I think this is a style-guide issue and one to be determined by consensus rather than citing journals. However I'm not convinced, for the purpose of this article, they are equivalent. "Autistic" as an adjective is not well defined and tends to include much of the autistic spectrum. Those editors of Wikipedia or blogs who self-identify as "autistic" and wish to be described as such represent the high-functioning or Asperger's community more than the community of individuals with a full clinical diagnosis of autism -- many of whom are unable to communicate at all or who have significant additional disabilities. We need to be very careful when were are giving facts/figures about autism that we do not mix those up with figures for ASD. As such, while I personally agree with the wish to use "autistic person", I think this really is equivalent to "person with ASD" rather than "person with autism". And this article is only about autism. -- Colin°Talk 12:48, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
So, "He has autism" describes someone who meets the criteria for the old DSM "autistic disorder" - someone at the severe end of the spectrum - but not a high-functioning person; whereas "autistic" can describe someone anywhere on the spectrum. So using the broad "autistic" in this article about the severe end of the spectrum would be imprecise. Whereas use of "autistic" when discussing the spectrum in general or high-functioning people would be OK. Have I got that right? --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 13:00, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Muffinator, on the AS talk page you wrote "because people on the autism spectrum are autistic". So you yourself are insisting that the adjective applies to all individuals on the spectrum. Now, I think your confusion is you believe this article here is dealing with Autism the concept, the spectrum. Whereas it is currently dealing with only the classic disorder as strictly diagnosed. Such a diagnosis largely excludes individuals capable of functioning successfully as Wikipedians. Look at the prognosis section of this article: the vast majority of adults with autism "need considerable support and supervision in daily living" and most are in professional care. This is quite a different group of individuals to the vocal blogger with Aspergers. The truth is the language used for this topic is hopelessly confused and ambiguous. While this article remains concerned with classic autism, and cites studies on individuals with autism (so defined) then they should use exactly the same "description of population-group" as the journal/book they cite, to avoid any danger of widening or narrowing the group. While some people may use the word "autistic" to mean "with classic autism" (and some writing may use that term without ambiguity because the population group in that text has already been clearly defined) many people do not. Including, it seems, yourself. -- Colin°Talk 18:36, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Since when does needing "considerable support and supervision in daily living" mean that one cannot write and browse the internet? Autism is mostly described in terms of verbal impairment; assistive speaking devices exist for exactly that reason, along with other computers, especially iPads. Writing may be difficult but is very rarely impossible. It seems this article is need of much improvement if such misunderstandings still occur! Muffinator (talk) 18:57, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Muffinator, you are by far not the first and I don't think will be the last newbie editor to tackle the ASD articles with more zeal and passion than they have ability, understanding, and access to and acquaintance with high quality sources. This is an enormously difficult subject to write precisely about. As I noted, you are in your own writing confused as to whether "autistic person" should be used to describe only individuals with classic autism (this article) or someone on the autistic spectrum. This is sort of an own-goal wrt your attempt to revised the vocab here. It is well-meaning, and I support those who wish to use the identity-first language, and I would support that language in some contexts. But while this article remains concerned with classic autism and most of the statistics cover people with this very severe disability, we need to be precise in our language. -- Colin°Talk 20:03, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If the language is so ambiguous, we must specify "classic autism" and "autism spectrum" in every instance, which I should note is a massive undertaking because it requires digging into the cited sources to determine which type they were talking about. In many cases you will find that the sources are just as ambiguous, because the differences are arbitrary and meaningless, but I can tell we're not going to reach consensus on that point. By the way, I was a newbie when I made my first edit in 2006, not now. Muffinator (talk) 20:44, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You are correct, it is messy, but that is the current state of our understanding of autism; it isn't just one category of disorder, but the spectrum is not fully understood yet. The same is currently happening with many psychological disorders. It makes our job tougher on Wikipedia, but over the very long run progress will be made. I am One of Many (talk) 21:02, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Could we use, "people diagnosed with"? It's a little clunky, but it's clear and accurate while avoiding saying they are this or have that. Just looking for language that might end what could be a perennial dispute. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 14:04, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Too clunky. This dispute is perennial because so many people come to this article expecting it to be about something that it is not. It is not an article on the whole concept of autism, but on one rather limited diagnostic group. Perhaps at some point in the future that will change. -- Colin°Talk 18:36, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Not all autistic people have a diagnosis. In fact, there's a huge under-diagnosis problem especially with non-whites, women, and the poor. Muffinator (talk) 19:01, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I know that, Muffinator. That's the point. Our autism suite of articles, when referring to autistic people/people with autism, invariably are referring to people with a diagnosis. That's where science and medicine get the data: from studies done on people with a diagnosis. Of course, if something is said/ could be said in an article about autistic people who have not been diagnosed, other language could be used in those instances, I suppose, but I'm not aware of anything in any of our autism articles that is not derived from scientific studies of people with a diagnosis.
It's like in other medical articles we make a clear distinction between patients and people who might have a condition but have not yet been diagnosed. Most epidemiological studies, for instance, are conducted on people diagnosed - patients. Please reconsider this in light of what I've just clarified here. I do think it's a solution to what will otherwise be perennial conflict in this topic area. (You too, Colin. Please don't just dismiss this without giving it a bit more thought.) --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 22:05, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Signs of a diagnosed state, that have been identified by studying diagnosed people, are also present in those who meet the diagnostic criteria but have not actually been diagnosed. That's why "diagnosed as/with" can't be a default. Muffinator (talk) 04:27, 10 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Support- "Individual with autism" or "person with autism" because autism is a diagnosed condition and should follow the person-first convention which is standard for diagnosed conditions. Also, this is the language used by reliable sources. --BoboMeowCat (talk) 20:24, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: Is this decision just for this article? (I started reading but got a bit discombobulated so forgive me if it was stated and I missed it.) While I agree that medical literature's word use is likely the best way to go when discussing it within the medical/scientific model, I'd support "autistic" or other identity-first language when discussing things within the social model (where it makes sense), like if discussing the autism rights movement (where many individuals tend to prefer ID-first) or specifically discussing any controversy over wording or something like that. If you need stronger sources for autistic individuals' preference, I can go scrounge them up but the only one I can pull up quickly (because I know where it's at) is a straw poll to Tumblr (a limited and possibly biased survey set) that I did (WP:OR, so much OR) that had responses in the 200s to the ID-first choice and maybe 4 on the person-first one. (But I started formulating a list of much more reliable sources when I was going to research sociocultural debates within the autism/autistic communities for a semester research project. It just got tucked away when I switched subjects, so I simply have to find it.) - Purplewowies (talk) 17:58, 10 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support- "Individual with autism" or "person with autism" as we should follow the sources. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 18:55, 10 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose "individual(s) with autism". I haven't actually surveyed any sourcing, but I'd be very surprised if this is a particularly common formulation (even if one or two examples are given above). Why use odd vocabulary like "individual" when "person" will do? Support "person/people with autism". Formerip (talk) 13:42, 21 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ http://autisticadvocacy.org/identity-first-language/
  2. ^ http://www.thinkingautismguide.com/2011/11/person-first-language-why-it-matters.html
  3. ^ http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/autism-unexpected/2010/aug/2/autistic-or-person-autism/
  4. ^ http://autismwomensnetwork.org/i-am-autistic/
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Compromise proposal: "people who are autistic"

The proposal is rejected. Drmies (talk) 16:31, 18 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

{{rfc}} Regarding recent debates involving identity-first ("autistic person") and "person"-first ("person with autism") language, I get the impression that it is highly unlikely that the Wikipedia community will reach a consensus favoring either system in the foreseeable future. Because both systems are used by reliable sources with specific relevance to the issue, and the broader WP:MEDRS does not apply, there is no default. Therefore, I'm proposing a compromise: Instead of phrases like "autistic person" and "person with autism", we can default to phrases like "person who is autistic", thereby acknowledging that autism is integral to identity while also preserving a "person"-first construction. Hopefully this will be satisfactory to people on both sides of the debate. Muffinator (talk) 22:42, 4 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Why then, do you persistently revert edits which change the language from "person"-first to autistic-first? By your logic it should be up to the discretion of the editor to determine which construction is better for flow, clarity, accuracy, etc. Previously you have argued that we must preserve the "person"-first style because it matches reliable sources. Is this simply a statement that your opinion has changed? Muffinator (talk) 21:02, 10 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Opppose vehemently, per Zad68 (not Jmh649). None of these phrases are more useful or neutral or sensitive or valid or whatever than any other, and having all three of them to use helps keep the article text from being monotonously annoying. We definitely should not enforce one vs the others. Furthermore, for basic descriptive use of the English language we are never bound to use the exact phrasing preferred by [someone's biased sampling of] reliable sources. RS tell us what the facts are, not how we must write about those facts. That aside, reverting a change from one style of phrase to another on the basis of "reliable sources" is nonsensical, since clearly the sources do not all agree.

    Finally – and this is actually important, beyond this particular article – assuming that autism is "integral" to "identity" is patent original reaserch and viewpoint pushing of "identity politics" nonsense. The vast majority of people around the world who are somewhere on the autism spectrum (note: that's a fourth description we can and should use, perhaps even prefer) do not know that they are, and thus it cannot be part of their "identity" at all, much less integral (note that "identity" is not synonymous with "personality" much less "others perception of one's personality"). Our present (since some time around 2005) cultural obsession with kowtowing to whatever people declare to be, or to be important to, their self-declared sense of "identity" is an intellectual and political fad, that WP is already giving far too much undue weight to. At any rate, even people who do know they are on the autism spectrum often do not consider it integral to their identity, it's just something they work around, like people who have a bad knee. One can't push onto them, much less on the entire WP readership, one's own highly position-taking view of how they should feel about their condition.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  11:02, 15 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Editors should be aware that, SMcCandlish despises experts and is thus duty bound to rant against any wording preferred or used by experts. But for medical conditions (and many other specialist fields), the terms the experts use are absolutely vital. If you don't use those terms then you are really talking about something else, perhaps more general, perhaps more specific or perhaps something else entirely. While in some aspects of autism the discussion refers to many conditions on the spectrum, in others the discussion is absolutely about one and only one definition and wording. Language does change, so what one means by "autism" and "autistic" has and will continue to change. Which makes this article so hard to write. The only way to accurately write this subject, is to use the language of the sources. Attempting to find other words, for whatever reason, is doomed to mislead. The choice of such terms, in such a difficult subject as this, can only be made by experts -- doing so by Wikipedians is OR. SMcCandlish, I don't think you have the slightest clue or appreciation how much effort and skill goes into choosing and defining medical terms. Your opinions on what language to use reflect an uneducated and unsourced position of your own devising and are, to be frank, bollocks. To suggest "autism spectrum.. is .. a fourth description we can and should use, perhaps even prefer" just shows you really haven't understood what this article is actually about. The autism identity issue is not "patent original research" but is by no means universal, as with similarities with deaf culture. Muffinator, I suggest in all politeness, that you give it a rest. -- Colin°Talk 21:34, 16 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Agree with Zad68, Dbrodbeck, and Jmh649. For articles on medical subjects MEDRS is relevant and editors therefore use a certain terminology per their sources. Perhaps in articles that deal with "identity politics" editors should be free to use whatever terminology fits for them, but whatever their view, it should not carry over to subjects that are empirically-based that must follow constraints, such as Psychology, Medicine, and others. Parabolooidal (talk) 22:21, 16 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]


The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Too many synapses?

I see that Courchesne et al (2007) already gets a mention in support of "An excess of neurons that causes local overconnectivity in key brain regions". So is this study by David Sulzer news: [4]? It also gets a mention in today's The Times. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:12, 22 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It's an interesting item. It's a primary study so brand-new it's not even in PubMed yet. If it's got legs it'll get picked up in a good secondary source we can use. Zad68 18:17, 22 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
well, if not legs, at least axons... Martinevans123 (talk) 18:41, 22 August 2014 (UTC) [reply]
hope they're myelinated for speed! Zad68 18:45, 22 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
or really long..... Dbrodbeck (talk) 18:58, 22 August 2014 (UTC) [reply]

Any data on associations between Autism and Gender variant behavior in Children or CGN?

Thanks. Ben-Natan (talk) 07:08, 27 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Mitochondria and white blood cells

Since talk:Causes of autism isnt getting much talk lately, I wanted to post this here. The latest bombshell in the theory that autism is a genetic disorder is here. Children with autism experience deficits in a type of immune cell that protects the body from infection. Called granulocytes, the cells exhibit one-third the capacity to fight infection and protect the body from invasion compared with the same cells in children who are developing normally. If true this is a giant step far, far away from all of the other mainstream theories about mercury and lead exposure. But if it's true that children with autism have weakened mitochondria in their white blood cells, what is the cause of that? It obviously can't be passed down 100% through genes. And if true, why are people with autism not far more susceptible to all sorts of diseases? Is this weakness only expressed during the earliest stages of life, or even only within the womb? A further complication is that this great new study is drawing its conclusions from a sample size of ten, therefore more work needs to be done.

Can this be the long-awaited answer to the question of the ultimate cause of autism? —Soap— 00:33, 28 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]


Autism rights movement

Further information: Autism rights movement

IMO, important information missing from this page is information on the Autism rights movement. Asperger Syndrome and other "conditions" within the Autism spectrum are not considered a disorder by members of the Autism rights movement. Such individuals are part of a new brand of social movement, promoting neurodiversity. The idea of neurodiversity is that people who are wired differently (like those on the Autism spectrum) tend to suffer most because of the poor way they are treated by their environment and that society should embrace the strengths that come with Autism rather than stressing its weaknesses.

Info from Autism rights movement :

Autism rainbow infinity
The rainbow-colored infinity symbol represents the diversity of the autism spectrum as well as the greater neurodiversity movement.

The autism rights movement (ARM) is a social movement within the neurodiversity movement that encourages autistic people, their caregivers and society to adopt a position of neurodiversity, accepting autism as a variation in functioning rather than a mental disorder to be cured.[1] The ARM advocates a variety of goals including a greater acceptance of autistic behaviors;[2] therapies that teach autistic individuals coping skills rather than therapies focused on imitating behaviors of neurotypical peers;[3] the creation of social networks and events that allow autistic people to socialize on their own terms;[4] and the recognition of the Autistic community as a minority group.[5]

Autism rights or neurodiversity advocates believe that the autism spectrum is genetic and should be accepted as a natural expression of the human genome. This perspective is distinct from two other likewise distinct views: (1) the mainstream perspective that autism is caused by a genetic defect and should be addressed by targeting the autism gene(s) and (2) the perspective that autism is caused by environmental factors like vaccines and pollution and could be cured by addressing environmental causes.[1]

The movement is controversial. There are a wide variety of both supportive and critical opinions about the movement among people who are autistic or associated with autistic people. A common criticism leveled against autistic activists is that the majority of them are high-functioning or have Asperger syndrome and do not represent the views of all autistic people.[6], even though some prominent figures in the movement (such as Amy Sequenzia[7]) are nonverbal and have been labeled as low-functioning.

None causes in lead

Per wp:lead what should go into the intro is what is most interesting about the topic. What causes autism is certainly very interesting. What doesn't cause autism is noise. Daniel.Cardenas (talk) 13:30, 1 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In my opinion, this is critical information to have in the lead, as many people are likely coming to the article to investigate this aspect of the subject. I don't think you have a correct understanding of WP:LEAD. Please revert yourself. --Laser brain (talk) 13:53, 1 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
What is your definition of many? Why do you believe this? Daniel.Cardenas (talk) 14:28, 1 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps a majority? I don't have any data to back this up—it's just my sense of the topic based on moderate reading of popular news sources. Autism appears in the news every day, and these articles tend to discuss causes, and the vaccination controversy is at least mentioned in any article about causes. People tend to look up Wikipedia articles on topics after they hear about them in popular media. I think we are best serving readers by mentioning this information in the lead. --Laser brain (talk) 14:37, 1 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The lede summarizes the article. This is in the article. Plus, many people do come to this for info and with all of the antivax nonsense out there it is good to put it right there in the lede. Dbrodbeck (talk) 14:39, 1 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I looked at the top 3 articles on google news about autism and the top 3 web site searches and none of them mention vaccine. Daniel.Cardenas (talk) 17:54, 1 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ a b Solomon, Andrew (2008-05-25). "The autism rights movement". New York. Archived from the original on 27 May 2008. Retrieved 2008-05-27. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
  2. ^ Mission Statement. Autism Acceptance Project. Retrieved on 2008-11-24.
  3. ^ Mission Statement. Aspies for Freedom. Retrieved on 2008-11-24.
  4. ^ Autism Network International presents Autreat. (2008-05-23) AIN.
  5. ^ "Declaration From the Autism Community That They Are a Minority Group" (Press release). PRWeb, Press Release Newswire. 2004-11-18. Retrieved 2007-11-07.
  6. ^ "The autism rights movement". Synapse.org.au.
  7. ^ Amy Sequenzia (2013-01-19). "When Autistics Grade Other Autistics". Ollibean.
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