User talk:EdJohnston

Yehuda Glick

I'm OK with the punishment. My complaint wasn't about 1RR or 3RR but rather on an editor who reverts multiple times but doesn't bother participating in discussion on talk page. Then join User:Cwobeel ‎who havre the guts to blame me for not talking about the issue. I am not asking for any further action on your side some editors participation was as unprofessional as it gets. 31.44.136.75 (talk) 08:08, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Snackbag sock

Probably need to do a rangeblock, and also remove some edit summaries: see here. Also, I filed this, hope I did it right. Montanabw^(talk) 10:04, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

All the IPs I've heard about are dealt with. A couple more semiprotections are possible. Your SPI was fine. Just remember they don't do indef blocks of IPs or reveal connections of IPs to accounts. EdJohnston (talk) 14:00, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

And the same IP went to a new coffee shop today to continue his harassment of Tigerboy1966. Sigh. Any idea what to do with a situation like this? Dynamic IPs are hrd to block... sigh... Montanabw^(talk) 22:46, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Economic causes of the War of the Pacific

You are mentioned in the case Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:Dentren_reported_by_User:Keysanger_.28Result:_.29. --Keysanger (talk) 20:36, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

I've responded in the AN3 complaint. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 02:43, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Secret Admirer

I am currently being followed around by my secret admirer. This individual has opted not to discuss my edits with me but rather enjoys simply reverting them instead. They don't poses an account either and are simply an IP. However, with every revert they make their IP changes while still staying within the range of 2001:590. Is there anything I can do about this? Anyways, ciao. AcidSnow (talk) 02:28, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Pony!

Pony!
Congratulations! For helping User:Tigerboy1966 (who is the heart and soul of WikiProject horse racing) with that harassing IP and sockpuppet, you have received a pony! Ponies are cute, intelligent, cuddly, friendly (most of the time, though with notable exceptions), promote good will, encourage patience, and enjoy carrots. Treat your pony with respect and he will be your faithful friend! Montanabw^(talk) 04:25, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

To send a pony or a treat to other wonderful and responsible editors, click here.

AE

Hi, just following up after my addendum. I sometimes suspect admins at AE don't notice comments that trickle in later.

That the AE request has now been open for three weeks seems to be indicative of the decline in the number of active admins. Wikipedia's policies and practices generally assume that admins are available to handle whatever comes up, and things can go wrong when this assumption is violated. I once felt the practical effect of this when an SPI languished for two weeks concerning a user that had been harassing editors with sockpuppets (and worse, using the evidence of harassment he created with socks to initiate an arbitration case about harassment). When the SPI finally closed and I brought additional evidence of problematic behavior to AE -- evidence which depended upon the SPI being closed -- the AE case was tabled for lack of activity. As was completely expected, the user in question eventually continued engaging in similar problematic behavior.

The subject of an AE or SPI will often cease or cut back on editing, laying low while the case is open. When a case languishes for weeks, there is a conflict between the unwritten "disruption must be current" rule and the time it takes for admins to handle cases. Not that I blame you or any particular admin. Maybe this is an issue for the village pump -- whether Wikipedia practices need to be revisited in light of the decline in active admins. Manul ~ talk 15:53, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

82.11.33.86

You unblocked this IP and made it conditional that the IP would not edit war at the Gulf War article again. The IP has obviously chosen to ignore that [1]. Mar4d (talk) 18:12, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) That looks like a "joe job" to me, someone trying to set the IP up, because the two IPs don't geolocate to the same locality, the latest one is in London, UK, while the "original" IP is in Swindon, a bit over two hours by car and more than that by train west of London. So I'd be interested in knowing if the new IP matches an existing registered user account. Thomas.W ^talk 18:23, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Add-on comment: The edit also seems to be correct, because I haven't seen any sources supporting your claim that Pakistan was an active partner in the coalition, even the article about the Gulf War coalition says that the Pakistani contingent was a "backup team", and not an active participant in the war. But if you have any realiable sources supporting your edit, please provide them. Thomas.W ^talk 18:31, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Sill on same IP 82.11.33.86 (talk) 18:27, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

I now have account The last Watch (talk) 19:17, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Hello there

I answered you in my talk page. Dentren | ^Talk 23:06, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

ABEditWiki broke his promise to you

If you recall, ABEditWiki made a promise to you. He broke that promise.VictoriaGrayson^Talk 06:10, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

And ABEditWiki is also making inappropriate comments towards Joshua Jonathan.VictoriaGrayson^Talk 06:17, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

This is funny. I am not sure I should write this as I assume an admin of WP must have seen this drama umpteen times. Still, I'm clarifying. The promise was on " to be sure I understand you ABEditWiki, you are promising to make no edit regarding any of the recently contested material at Caste system in India until the others on the talk page support the change? For example, the claim that the caste system was constructed under the British?" The contested material refers to the claims found in second paragraph of the lead. In spite of discussions in talk page, user JJ without any consensus on the topic, inserted the contested material into opening statement of the article. It has been reverted. Please see the diffs, before taking any view. AB^Talk 06:23, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

ABEditWiki is still edit warring against multiple editors including @Kautilya3: and @Ogress:.VictoriaGrayson^Talk 07:33, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

He also reported me to ANI, apparently, although he failed to link it. (He just wrote that he had on my page.) Ogress _smash! 08:43, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

ABEditWiki is still edit warring.VictoriaGrayson^Talk 15:43, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

ABEditWiki is now blocked for a week per the latest AN3 case. EdJohnston (talk) 17:26, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Message from RHB100

Hi Ed. Please see the message below from RHB100 which I moved from your userpage. Thanks. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 06:54, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Please do not make these snap judgements. Give me a chance to state my side of the issue before blocking me for nothing. I have told you that I have concluded that it appears useless to try to educate these people on how GPS works. What more do you want me to do. I did nothing but try to make the GPS article correct. I didn't know that normal editing was counted as reverts. Other people were far more guilty of edit warring than me. Is there anyway to change an incorrectly written article. I will keep in mind that what I thought were normal edits is sometimes considered a revert. I will refrain from making changes until I understand the difference between normal editing and reverts better. RHB100 (talk) 06:28, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Responded elsewhere. EdJohnston (talk) 17:24, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Block of 148.178.32.0/20

Hi Ed. I checked your range block of 148.178.32.0/20 through WHOIS after your comment at the SPI of Miss Paris Slue and it appears 148.178.32.0/20 is not provided by webhost Cloudmosa. The SPI mentions IP sock 107.178.46.170 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) which is provided by Cloudmosa but to me it appears to be currently unblocked. Can you please check into this? Thank you. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 16:10, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Yes, it is blocked but you need a different tool. The block shows up in Special:Contributions/148.178.46.170, though it doesn't appear in the IP's own block log. A rangeblock doesn't create individual block entries for the IPs contained it it. But the person still can't edit. If you use rangelinks you can see a block log for the range: 148.178.32.0/20 (block range · block log (global) · WHOIS (partial)). EdJohnston (talk) 17:23, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Thank you Ed. It's resolved. I can see now that IP 107.178.46.170 is rangeblocked also. It was not showing as such before. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 17:50, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Yes, updated again. This was yet another Cloudmosa range, not included in the first /20. It's good you asked about it. I wonder how we can discover how many subranges belong to cloudmosa? Lately WHOIS has been giving me terrible results; surely there is a good WHOIS somewhere. EdJohnston (talk) 18:00, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Thank you Ed. I'm not sure if there is a way to list all of the subranges of a webhost. At the SPI Materialscientist agreed with your rangeblock and even proposed extending its duration. Best regards. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 22:40, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Caste System in India

Hi Ed, i just wanted to say that i endorse the views of ABEditWiki (talk · contribs) in the article on the Caste System in India. Since he is new to wikipedia he indulged in edit warring and has now been blocked for a week. However, i would strongly appeal to you to not impose a topic ban on him since he has made some solid contributions to the talk page of the article and is very obviously a scholar on the subject. Some discussion with him on your part about how wikipedia operates might be beneficial. Soham321 (talk) 17:52, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

OK, thanks for your note. Very argumentative people tend acquire lots of opponents in a short time, and it's not easy to protect them from themselves. From my very quick review of the article talk, he seemed to be reading sources badly or ignoring what they said. EdJohnston (talk) 17:57, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

The fact that the material on Caste System in India is genuinely disputed can be construed by the fact that Human3015 has said in the talk page of the article that the content in the main article needs to go for dispute resolution, and Mr Toad 2 slams the content of the main article--in the article talk page-- giving reasons endorsed by me and also by AB (based on AB's edits in the talk page, and his edit on Mr Toad 2's talk page). I was not aware of what does and does not constitute WP:Canvas and so i left a note on the talk page of Kenfyre to take a look at the caste system in India page (since i was agreeing with the edits he was making on a page that had a connection with the Caste system in India page--again, i did not know at the time that this could be construed as canvassing), and this was his response: It seems some editors are cherry-picking scholars who support their point of view. It also seems to have been written from a Hindu-apologist point-of-view. We could include more diverse views, and expand and clarify upon their views, like which scholar said exactly what. It would take time. It is seems even the simplest edit would be fought over. They have purged all references to castes from Rig Veda, Mahabharata and Sutrakara Baudhayana. I will try to support the above issues and the genetic studies edits proposed by you. I think AB's mistake was to take this to ANI and not to wait for someone to take this to Dispute Resolution. But this was because he is a newbie to wikipedia.Soham321 (talk) 20:14, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Caste in India

Hi EdJ, it was one person warring against many at Caste system in India, and they were doing so without regard to the existing sources. Against them was me, Kautilya3, Victoria Grayson, Joshua Jonathan and perhaps more: some of us really do know what we're talking about here. All I was doing was trying to clean up the citations etc. Locking the thing down seems a bit disproportionate. - Sitush (talk) 17:34, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks

Dear Ed, just wanted to thank you for protecting the Caste system in India article. Soham321 (talk) 18:16, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Yeas, it's great, isn't it. Just the way to stop a lot of good work that was going on and all because of a naive caste warrior who didn't even bother to read the recent talk page discussions or the cited sources. I just love Wikipedia sometimes, especially when the idiots win. - Sitush (talk) 18:23, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Dear Sitush, (Personal attack removed) Soham321 (talk) 18:28, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

I removed a personal attack above. If there is enough vituperation it takes the matter toward the territory of WP:AE. Despite the high level of hostility, I see some good work on the article talk page. EdJohnston (talk) 01:52, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Long past, but quick comment

When I agreed to an editing ban at the Nassim Nicholas Taleb article, I did not, as you stated in closing at any time, as you say here, Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive281#User:Leprof 7272 reported by User:LoveMonkey (Result: Voluntary restriction), agree not to reply to false statements made at noticeboards. I did agree to not edit the article, or engage in chat there, or with the two offensive editors involved at their Talk pages. These I agreed to, and did.

I accepted stepping back, ultimately, because another couple of experienced editors/admins came in and turned the matter around, via another Noticeboard, moving the article away from being broadly sourced from Taleb's personal web pages to having statements modified or otherwise sourced.

The bottom line is, the two editors that ganged up, though were never challenged, despite their winning their petty Noticeboard matter, eventually allowed the article to be moved in a direction consistent with WP policies. This was achieved only after moving it away from the narrow Noticeboard to which the offensive editor brought it (seemingly know in which "Court" he would find narrow, favorable hearing). Why you serve there is a mystery to me; it cannot be because of a strong commitment to true, just adjudication of matters. Well, to me, only the article quality matter. Justice is not a goal of this place, nor of mine, anymore, here. Cheers. Le Prof. 71.201.62.200 (talk) 21:58, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. I fixed the above link to the 11 May 3RR report. The main purpose of the WP:AN3 board is to prevent article disputes from continuing, whenever they consist of wars on the article text itself. There are other problems with articles that AN3 may not give much help with. EdJohnston (talk) 01:41, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

East Azerbaidjan Province

Could you please move this page to East Azerbaijan Province, which is how Azerbaijan is spelled in English? Alakzi (talk) 20:40, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. Alakzi (talk) 21:16, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Vandalism

Plz See nationalism editing such this user.Samək^Talk 21:05, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

That editor is now blocked per WP:AN3. EdJohnston (talk) 15:47, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Caste system in India

Thanks very much for changing the protection to semi. - Sitush (talk) 15:10, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

On a related tangent, would Category:Anti-caste movements be a POV category? --‖ Ebyabe ^talk - Border Town ‖ 15:27, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Not looked at it but I don't see why it should be. For example, the SNDP and the B. R. Ambedkar-related movements would be likely members. Anti-casteism is a valid and significant force in Indian society. - Sitush (talk) 15:40, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

More edit warring??

You recently closed semiprotected some articles with your closure at WP:AN3 referring to my issue with a series of anon IPs - see my talk page. Today, I find from my watchlist that another IP - 114.178.174.209 - has worked their way up the list of articles I have created and has marked dozens as non-notable and/or needing improved refs. They have made no other edits, other than to pages I created, totalling 75 edits in 49 minutes. This is a clear case of stalking. Now, in some cases, these were justifiable (the majority were translated as is from French Wikipedia) but that is not the case with all and I made edits to either revert or to highlight refs where possible. Now I find that yet another IP, 153.206.14.192 with 17 edits in, has begun to revert my edits. I'm worried. Can anything be done? Emeraude (talk) 22:17, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Additionally, I've just noticed 153.206.30.151 is also in, with 15 edits in 16 minutes. None of these IPS has made anay other edits ever. Emeraude (talk) 22:22, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

If they are only adding proper tags and not warring then the behavior is fishy but not disruptive. What is unusual is that these IPs only deal with your articles, no one else's. Consider attaching a template to the article's talk page to show it's been translated from the French Wikipedia. For example, {{Translated | fr | À mort l'arbitre}} . That will make people aware that the article is at least considered notable in its original home. EdJohnston (talk) 23:00, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

I think they all have that note anyway, or most do. It's clear that this is a personal attack. I've no objection to tagging articles as needing refs etc, but when I remove them with a reason and they are immediately reverted it becomes disruptive. Consider, for example, Edward Hain, which was tagged for refimprpove. The article is fully referenced, and I removed the tag with that reason. I was reverted. The article is STILL fully referenced! (though I'm about to remove the tag again) Emeraude (talk) 09:52, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

ANI thread

Sorry Ed, I've always ANI a *****. One of several reasons I prefer to contribute as an IP. Probably better I just "go away" from Wikipedia for a few days. Cheers, 5.80.198.100 (talk) 16:04, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Actually, it might be better if you would stay and work this out. It's not a superhuman task to refrain from editing or moving others' posts, if they turn out to be touchy about it. And using an IP to reduce confrontations seems not to be working. EdJohnston (talk) 16:21, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Fyi, I believe the only time I moved a post was here – I did that in gf (please see edit summary) following the constructive interaction/s on my my IP talk page. Additionally I believe I made a proposed minor change to some indenting for the purposes of clarity. (feel free to move this to the ANI thread if that helps)

Btw, for me using a registered account has been far, far worse (fwiw, I remain logged in on Meta). Regards, 5.80.198.100 (talk) 16:43, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Thousands of people use regular accounts without suffering greatly thereby. Especially the people who aspire to make real content contributions, as you do. EdJohnston (talk) 16:55, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Thank you Ed, but I believe I actually already have a history of real content contributions. For example, as an IP editor I was one of the main contributors to bringing Pancreatic cancer to FA (in active collaboration with an initiative involving Cancer Research UK). 5.80.198.100 (talk) 17:05, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

RE your closure [[2]]: Yes, I do indeed wish the serious points I raised to be addressed. This sort of treatment leaves me with a bitter taste, and does nothing whatsoever to encourage me to log in on Wikipedia (I'm far better logged out or away altogether, thanks!). Fwiw, I blame the woeful inadequacy (imo) of the ANI process as a whole, rather than any individual admin. 5.80.198.100 (talk) 17:15, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

In reply: The thread seems to have been re-closed by you anyway. Fyi, I wasn't even informed that the case had been opened. Whatever possible personal considerations there may be (regarding other individuals) which I don't know about, I have to say that the whole process appears to me have been absurd. No, I do not wish to open a complaint that might lead to another constructive editor being blocked. What I did – and still would – request is that someone try to explain to the editor about the relevance of WP:REDACT, WP:AGF, etc in this sort of context. That seems to me to be a reasonable request which is unlikely to harm anyone. Alternatively, I have to confess to the temptation to request to be self-blocked. Whatever the esoteric procedural bureaucracy of ANI, I don't think this is the way Wikipedia as a whole (and please note I'm not saying you personally) should be treating its contributors. 5.80.198.100 (talk) 19:38, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Without looking into it deeply, it seemed to me that you *were* making changes to others' posts in ways that weren't strictly necessary. That reduced my willingness to do a complete study of what everyone said and did. I've no opinion on who is actually behaving better. EdJohnston (talk) 19:48, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Look I find that comment absurd and frankly insulting. I have been trying to be as considerate as possible to all concerned. Kindly consider that the other user has been accusing me of sock puppetry without the slightest cause. That the user did not even inform me of the ANI case. That I've repeatedly tried to dialogue constructively with the user about the relevance of TGF over the last week or so. That I've just wasted my afternoon raising my blood pressure providing you with fiddly diffs. Yukkk!!!! 5.80.198.100 (talk) 20:10, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia sure knows how to distance contributors from Wikipedia! 5.80.198.100 (talk) 20:19, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

...Oh, and btw, the case was taken to the edit-warring noticeboard... I'd really like to know what possible cause there could possibly have been for that (other than wrecking my day!)? And all you can say is stuff like:

Without looking into it deeply, it seemed to me that you *were* making changes to others' posts in ways that weren't strictly necessary. That reduced my willingness to do a complete study of what everyone said and did. I've no opinion on who is actually behaving better.

Sorry, goodbye! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.80.198.100 (talk) 20:35, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Template Error

Hi EdJohnston,

When you moved {{snd}} on 22:05, 29 June 2015, you broke it. Instead of working properly, it currently displays

REDIRECT Template:Spaced en dash This is a redirect from a page that has been moved (renamed). This page was kept as a redirect to avoid breaking links, both internal and external, that may have been made to the old page name. For more information follow the category link.

I think the source of the problem is that you forgot to include <noinclude></noinclude> around the redirect notice template, but I'm not entirely sure of that as I'm not an expert in that area. Please correct this mistake and try to avoid it in the future. Thanks.  White Whirlwind  咨  22:19, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

You can see the unpleasant results of this edit in the references for Widener Library (refs 30, 85, 122, among others). Please fix ASAP. – Jonesey95 (talk) 22:31, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. I have reversed the move, and will let the original requester, User:Alakzi, decide whether he wants to open a full move discussion. The Widener Library page seems to be back to normal. EdJohnston (talk) 22:42, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

This was a double redirect. After moving a template, you need to ensure that you've re-targeted all of its redirects; {{Spaced ndash}} has got 8. Alakzi (talk) 22:57, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

I'll leave it for now. Since template moves are usually cosmetic (the name isn't visible to the reader of the encyclopedia) we can wait for the outcome of a full move discussion, if you want to start one. EdJohnston (talk) 23:28, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick fix. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:20, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Why might we need an RM? We've already agreed that "en dash" is a better name at Template talk:En dash#Requested move 21 June 2015. Just move it back and I'll get the redirects sorted. Alternatively, lower the protection to template, and I'll perform the move; 25k transclusions do not warrant full protection. Alakzi (talk) 23:33, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Template:Spaced ndash is under cascade protection. I'd prefer not to mess with that. If you don't want to wait for a move discussion, ask any other admin who knows how to deal with cascade protection. EdJohnston (talk) 23:44, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

I did not ask for a protracted move request; if you don't know to move a template successfully, just leave it to somebody else. Alakzi (talk) 00:23, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

I was hoping you'd leave a note on your request at RMTR advising people about the double redirects, but you didn't do so. By opening a move discussion, I'm able to document the problem. EdJohnston (talk) 00:38, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

You could've left a comment directly under my TR. How is opening a RM helping anything? Alakzi (talk) 00:40, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

Twobells

Hi, I just seen this rewriting of wiki-history while commenting about an unrelated matter (ie: not following Twobells around). It's practically agitation, claiming there has been an effort to ban them, canvassing etc. - Sitush (talk) 10:17, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

And then followed by this (sorry, there is a bit of an unrelated edit by Kenfyre in that diff). - Sitush (talk) 11:31, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Panic bar

I'd be very interested to hear how you came to the decision that there was a consensus to move this article from the British title to the American title, since those who supported the move didn't seem to be aware that this was an ENGVAR issue (the nominator, an American, said that panic bar was more common, which is only true in North America; another contributor, also an American, said that he'd never heard the term "crash bar", which is irrelevant; and an anon made a statement which didn't seem to make much sense) and there was not sufficient discussion after I pointed out that it was. We do not generally call them panic bars in the UK, and therefore under WP:ENGVAR and WP:RETAIN the article should clearly have remained at the original title. I'd request you to reconsider this close. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:47, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

Per your objection, I've undone my closure at Talk:Crash bar#Requested move 31 May 2015 and have advised more discussion on the matter of WP:ENGVAR. The best solution might be something that is recognizable in all regions, if such a term exists. Some Google searching might show what that is. EdJohnston (talk) 16:54, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

AE Appeal

Ed, you said you take note of the promotional language. The language was quoted from a medical journal review with inline text attribution, so what exactly are you taking note of in your close? It appears you took others at their word and did not look at any of the information I provided. I contest your close and the language you used, and ask that you please reconsider. There were other reasons mentioned in my appeal which you also seem to have overlooked. The reason I contest it follows from WP:CLOSE: "Consensus is not determined by counting heads, but neither is it determined by the closer's own views about what is the most appropriate policy. The closer is there to judge the consensus of the community, after discarding irrelevant arguments: those that flatly contradict established policy, those based on personal opinion only, those that are logically fallacious, those that show no understanding of the matter of issue.[2] If the discussion shows that some people think one policy is controlling, and some another, the closer is expected to close by judging which view has the predominant number of responsible Wikipedians supporting it, not personally select which is the better policy. He or she is not expected to decide the issue, just to judge the result of the debate, and is expected to know policy sufficiently to know what arguments are to be excluded as irrelevant. If the consensus of reasonable arguments is opposite to the closer's view, he or she is expected to decide according to the consensus. The closer is not to be a judge of the issue, but rather of the argument."Atsme^📞📧 12:31, 30 June 2015 (UTC) M

Please see comments on my talk page

--Rockybiggs (talk) 11:04, 1 July 2015 (UTC)