Talk:Yom Kippur War

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Yom Kippur War is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.

This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on March 30, 2006.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
June 14, 2005	Featured article candidate	Promoted
April 8, 2006	Featured article review	Kept
November 6, 2011	Featured article review	Demoted

Current status: Former featured article

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Archives

Archive 1 - Includes discussion of whether the article title is POV, and a poll concerning page move to Arab-Israeli conflict of October 6–October 24, 1973. Outcome of poll was 0/15/1.
Archive 2 - Includes discussion of whether the article title is POV, and a poll concerning page move to 1973 Arab-Israeli War. Outcome of poll was 8/30/0.
Archive 3 - Includes discussion of whether the article title (and the article itself) is POV, casus belli, number of troops, and various other things.
Archive 4 - June - October 2009.
Archive 5 - October 2009 - April 2010.
Archive 6 - 2010 - 2013
Archive 7 - 2013 - present

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Egyptian vs. Israeli victory

Not sure how this war is considered as military victory to Israel! Even if success is measured by land occupied; Egyptian army did occupy more than 2000 km sq to the east of the Suez Canal which is significantly larger than the land occupied by the IDF on the west side. Some would claim it could have been an Israeli victory since IDF units sneaked into Africa on the west side of the canal and encapsuled the Egyptian third army depriving them of supply; it would have been considered a clear victory to IDF if cease fire was not in effect as of the 23rd of October, however in same hypothesis of speculating what-if with no cease fire; Egyptian Air-Forces would have easily bombed and swept the full IDF units on west of canal especially they were on Africa side and away from any Israeli air defenses which was the one thing that Kissinger said to Sadat as "not an option" and hence cease fire was the only political option to both sides. In a more balanced view; this war can split in two halves; first half complete victory to Egyptians and second half as a tie; then overall war would be considered as a victory to Egypt since eventually Sinai was returned to Egypt despite complete and stubborn refusal by Israel before the war. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Latifmwiki (talk • contribs) 20:31, 22 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Latifmwiki: If you've got a lot of time to spare, go up to this page's archive search box, type in "victory" and search. This has been a settled matter for a very long time. RunnyAmiga ※ talk 20:45, 22 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@RunnyAmiga thanks for your quick response, I went over many of the previous edits re:victory, with all respect I think you turned down every logic, many points like "how things really ended on ground versus intended objectives" are actually missing how things really ended; in fact I agree with you that we can't base a "third party judgement" on one side's intended objective so I am not debating this at all, but to your argument "what happened really on ground" is: 1- Compared to land before 6 October 1973; Egypt occupied 2000 Km.sq on east side of the canal versus 1600 km.sq occupied by IDF on the west side of the canal 2- Threatened situation to significant parts of both armies: 2.a. Egyptian third army deprived of supply by the IDF units on west of the canal and 2.b. those very IDF units completely under mercy of Egyptian airforces, you can easily find these facts in Kissinger's recalls of the war. I really think you should review your position otherwise if I am missing any deal breaker point here please let me know. And about intentions and objectives you have all the rights to debate wether Egyptian army's military objectives were achieved but I am equally shocked you entail in your article that Israel saw the opportunity in this war to establish recognition and peace, firstly you are denying Egyptian intentions on one side yet claiming fulfillment of Israeli intentions in a different point, secondly you are ignoring simple facts and things that actually happened; please go and review your resources, you will find that Sadat offered Israel in 1971 peace and recognition versus return of Sinai and they refused,without this 1973 military victory that you deny, nothing would have made Israel change their minds. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Latifmwiki (talk • contribs) 22:28, 22 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The victory was for the Egyptian Army Nadine khattab (talk) 17:14, 23 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The war wasn't between the arab and Israel , if you would like to say it like this so it will be Isreal and America VS Arab,this is the fact, the other fact is that Egypt won the war not Israel as i agree with Nadine KHattab on every word she said,THIS SHOULD BE EDIT Mohamed gouda22 (talk) 15:36, 2 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've read extensively on that war and I think the result of the war should've been a ceasefire or the disengagement agreement .Also the Results of this agreement should be stated under Territorial changes pinpointing all its points with both Egypt and Syria.No army surrendered and no army completely destroyed so it cannot be considered Victory for either side .After Ceasefire agreements Egypt kept the strip of land and opened Suez Canal .Israel moved out of the west bank of canal zone and from Syria proper giving in the city of Quneitra back as well.If the war is to be defined by intentions then break of the political stalemate was Egypt military goal while Israel's was to destroy all Arab attackers so they don't gain any edge in negotiations whatsoever.So political gains for Egypt where also more substantial.Syria's Intent though was retaking Golan militarily not politically so Syria can be said to have failed in that regard. — Preceding unsigned comment added by OSARIOUS (talk • contribs) 16:39, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Nuclear war

The Yom Kippur War was the closest the world came to nuclear war. DEFCON 2 was secretly enacted as the USSR moved nuclear weapons into Alexandria Harbor. (213.122.144.148 (talk) 13:10, 4 November 2016 (UTC))[reply]

Subjective or unreliable source

The last paragraph residing in 'temporary stabilization' within the 'combat operations' section closes with seriously nothing but a joke in regards of source reliability. The paragraph I am talking about is as follows:

Between October 10 and 13, both sides refrained from any large-scale actions, and the situation was relatively stable. Both sides launched small-scale attacks, and the Egyptians used helicopters to land commandos behind Israeli lines. Some Egyptian helicopters were shot down, and those commando forces that managed to land were quickly destroyed by Koah Patzi, a twelve-man squad consisting of officers from the Sayeret Shaked unit. In one key engagement on October 13, Koah Patzi destroyed a particularly large incursion and killed close to a hundred Egyptian commandos.

The paragraph content is relatively fine until its last sentence In one key engagement on October 13, Koah Patzi destroyed a particularly large incursion and killed close to a hundred Egyptian commandos. [1] --- I am not a wikipedia guy nor am I experienced in editing text or with standards in encyclopedias BUT this claim is supported only by the book of Ariel Sharon's son Galid. How can such sentence can find its way even into 'protected' articles like this one? This is what kills Wikipedia's reputation as a reliable source each and every day. Galid Sharon f.ex made this statement 2 years ago - Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn't stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren't surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too [2] -

So, ofc his statement is not related to this article but it shows

that Mr. Sharon clearly cannot be considered a 'reliable source' due to his pov and
that his pov tends to be quite harsh to say politely.

Presenting his record of Koah Patzi as a fact is nonsense and at least needs to be reworded if not removed completely. You guys need to prefix the sentence with a leading-in wording like 'According to Ariel Sharon's son Koah Patzi destoryed....' or 'Based on memoirs by a participant of the engagements...'. At best you people just remove the sentence entirely. It adds nothing useful anyways. This article is about the whole war and not about individual success stories.

To close with some Godwinity I compare this sentence to the same bullshit you read sometimes in WW2 related Articles. Something like ...and there was this fanatic German SS commander who alone with his battalion staff unit held back 2 armies of Russian armored vehicles in a fierce but heroic fight...bladibla... can especially be found on German Wikipedia pages but not only there. I am really done to read this kind of national bias on Wikipedia but I know it will happen due to the nature of this Website. Still it annoys me beyond reason which led me to finally write a comment on one of this occasions. Plz fix this.

Kind Regards tobi 83.135.46.240 (talk) 16:36, 6 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Gilad Sharon, to my understanding, isn't a reliable source for this topic. I tagged the sentence, hopefully a better source would be found. Infantom (talk) 17:44, 6 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Much appreciated Infantom. The tag is a start and better then nothing. I still would prefer if it would simply be removed however. I mean, it's up to the the editor to proof his statements before they get online and not up to the visitor to proof a statement is wrong to get it removed. At least imo the 'burden of proof' should be on the editor. Anyhow, the tag shows there is doubt about the statement and that already takes the 'fact' tag away. Cheers for that. --tobi 83.135.46.240 (talk) 19:16, 6 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Egyptians won the war

Egyptians won the war Pwfurius (talk) 05:59, 1 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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UNSC 242

The article currently has this passage

In addition, the Egyptian response included a statement that the lasting peace could not be achieved without "withdrawal of the Israeli armed forces from all the territories occupied since 5 June 1967" (emphasis added). The UNSC resolution called for "withdrawal from territories occupied" ^[1] intentionally omitting "all", and "the"."^[2]

The sources for the second sentence are former Israeli ambassador Meir Rosenne and the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Relations, both of which can hardly be called unbiased. The question of what territories UNSC 242 refers to is heavily contested. The French text unambiguously calls for Israeli withdrawal from all territories, while the English text can possibly be read to mean some territories, although many people find this reading implausible. We can't use a biased source to make a statement of fact in Wikipedia's voice. The second sentence above should be amended to make it clear that in Israel's view, the UNSC resolution intentionally omits the word "all." The article should additionally note that there is disagreement on this point, and that the French text is unambiguous. -Thucydides411 (talk) 19:53, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Flags

It looks like the flags in right hand section near the top of the page are all the Egyptian flags when some of them should be the Syrian flags. I don't have the ability to edit and fix.

^ Rosenne, Meir. "Understanding UN Security Council Resolution 242". Jerusalem Center For Public Affairs. Retrieved November 2015. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |access-date= (help)
^ "The Jarring initiative and the response", Israel's Foreign Relations, Selected Documents, vols 1–2, 1947–1974. Retrieved June 9, 2005.

[Rabin1996p215-1] Yitzhak Rabin (1996). The Rabin Memoirs. University of California Press. p. 215. ISBN 978-0-520-20766-0. security versus sovereignty"...Israel would have to accept Egyptian sovereignty over all the Sinai, while Egypt ,in turn, would have to accept Israeli military presence in certain [Sinai] strategic positions.

[Kumaraswamy2013p105-2] P.R. Kumaraswamy (11 January 2013). Revisiting the Yom Kippur War. Routledge. pp. 105–. ISBN 978-1-136-32895-4.

[3] Rosenne, Meir. "Understanding UN Security Council Resolution 242". Jerusalem Center For Public Affairs. Retrieved November 2015. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |access-date= (help)

[response-4] "The Jarring initiative and the response", Israel's Foreign Relations, Selected Documents, vols 1–2, 1947–1974. Retrieved June 9, 2005.

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