Wikipedia:Move review/Log/2017 November

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2017 November

First observation of gravitational waves

The concern regarding non-neutrality of a descriptive title WP:NPOVNAME and WP:NDESC was essentially ignored in the discussion, and was not considered by the closer. 129.68.81.71 (talk) 16:37, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relist From nominating editor. I was involved, and favored the move.
- Within the astronomical and astrophysical community, it is standard to refer to the 1970s discovery and followup study of the Hulse-Taylor binary as the first indirect observation of gravitational waves and the recent LIGO detection as the first direct observation. In popular writing, the distinction is commonly ignored. A striking example of this distinction can be found in this year's Nobel Prize announcements: the "advanced" summary [1] refers to "first direct" only, starting with the title, while the press release [2] doesn't bother to say "direct" at all.
- An excellent WP:RS on this controversy is the book Harry Collins Gravity's Kiss (MIT 2017), chapter 8. Collins is a sociologist of science, and has been studying the gravitational wave community since the mid-70s. He was "embedded" in LIGO, had full access to their internal e-mails/web pages, and has written several books on the project, carefully taking note of disagreements and controversies amongst the scientists and recording how they proceed and resolve. Collins reports that the question of how to refer to the first detection in their scientific discovery paper generated more than 2500 e-mails from over 500 project members, and there was no clear consensus. He quotes e-mails from all sides of the question. (In fact, many objected to calling it "first direct" even.)
- NPOV requires us to not take sides, even if any controversy is amongst the specialists only. 129.68.81.71 (talk) 16:37, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Richard B. Spencer

Result was no consensus, but based primarily on sources, which seem not to reflect the basis on which the discussion was closed Edaham (talk) 02:42, 3 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Overturn From nominating editor.
- The sources used in opposition to the move, and which formed the basis of the closing argument, seem to largely support the title proposed by the unopposed editors. The verbiage used in the sources is as follows (excluding NYT references, which I can't open due to location difficulties in Shanghai).
  - 1) Richard B. Spencer, irksome white nationalist
  - 2) White supremacist Richard Spencer spoke at the University of Florida, drawing numerous protesters. USA TODAY
  - 3) Richard B. Spencer -'Hail Trump!': White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect
  - 4) White nationalist Richard B Spencer
  - 5) Richard Spencer, White Supremacist
  - 6) Who is Richard B. Spencer?
  - 7) WHITE SUPREMACIST RICHARD B. SPENCER'S
  - 8) White nationalist Richard Spencer
  - 9) Texas school repudiates white nationalist alumnus Richard Spencer
  - 10) (no VPN in China issue)
- The second point on which the case was closed is that the term is a pejorative. There's no real basis for this is sources. It's not vulgar. It's merely a term from which a fringe group is attempting to distance its self.
- Lastly, the proposed title is highly useful in disambiguating as it refers to the field/topic of the article, which a simple name of a not highly-notable person does not.
- With respect to the closing officer in this case. I put forward the above for further consideration
- Edaham (talk) 02:51, 3 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment from closer this wasn't discussed with me first, but I stand by my close. There was a tension between the MOS naming conventions for biographies and the article naming policy. The naming policy is the single most important policy in RM even above the naming conventions. It incorporates the disambiguation guideline and has a clear preference for natural disambiguation when possible, and sourcing was presented to demonstrate that there was a widely used natural disambiguation in high quality sourcing. That was never rebutted using a policy-based reason. Re: the pejorative point: something can be both true and a pejorative, and sourced. For BLPs, however, we are reminded by the BLP policy that ("BLPs") must be written conservatively and with regard for the subject's privacy. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid: it is not Wikipedia's job to be sensationalist, this further places the burden on those wishing to rename in this case to provide strong arguments and achieve a strong consensus for a move to this particular title. That did not occur in the discussion in my reading, and the only possible way I believe I could have closed it based on the discussion and the relevant policies was as no consensus. TonyBallioni (talk) 03:04, 3 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Endorse close. Each side in the discussion put forth persuasive arguments, thus resulting in "no consensus". The closing admin's evaluation of the issue, both at the close and above, was refined and styled to near perfection. All the reasons are clearly and distinctly elucidated by the closer and require no further enhancement. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 07:03, 3 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Endorse close - (I opposed the move). The closing summary was very well written, and seems a very good reading of the discussion, as assessed against relevant policies. The comment from the closer above also addresses well the points made in this MRV, so I don't need to reiterate them as Tony has already done a good job there. It should also be noted that there is a fresh RM active, an eventuality which was expressly encouraged in Tony's close, which at the moment is leaning towards making the article Richard B. Spencer primary at Richard Spencer, which if passed (and it's mostly support !votes so far) would make the move discussed here obsolete anyway. Thanks — Amakuru (talk) 10:39, 3 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

2017 Lower Manhattan attack (closed)