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January 6

Uniquely Western Martial Arts

Dear All

I am a longtime practitioner of Asian martial arts (Jiu-Jitsu and FMA to be exact) and was wondering whether there is some literature dealing with modern Western martial arts and knife fighting (knife fighting without FMA input). I am looking for purely Western martial arts, with little to no non-Western influence. Do you have any suggestions? I have checked Wikipedia`s entries for "combatives", however, it is not made clear which of these systems are only Western and which have taken some concepts and techniques from non-Western martial arts.

Thank you for your answers

I wish you all the very best--2A02:120B:2C79:D630:54EC:F65:8C21:749A (talk) 21:57, 6 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There's fencing. Does jousting count? We also have the article Historical European martial arts as a possible place to start.--William Thweatt ^Talk^Contribs 23:09, 6 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your suggestions, William Thweatt! I am aware of European Medieval Martial Arts, but I am more interested into more modern martial arts that still exist and are still taught.--178.199.157.99 (talk) 23:15, 6 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Assuming you count Israel as "Western", you might check out Krav Maga, which was developed and is used by the Israeli military forces. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.200.41.3 (talk) 23:41, 6 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There is also a significant amount of links, arranged by region, at List of martial arts.--William Thweatt ^Talk^Contribs 00:01, 7 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

And we have a Category:Martial arts by regional origin, though it won't link you to Ecky Thump. --Antiquary (talk) 09:48, 7 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Fencing ain't medieval. —Tamfang (talk) 08:24, 12 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for all your suggestions. The problem is, that I am looking for purely Western martial arts, without any non-Western influences. The links you gave me often mention martial arts that draw extensively from Asian sources and are de facto Asian martial arts with a Western touch (Krav Maga if I am rightly informed although founded by Westerners is mostly based on Asian martial arts). I am not a martial arts historian (well, technically I am a medievalist, but you get my point, I am not specialized when it comes to 20th century Western martial arts), but didn't Western countries use martial arts in both world wars? A personal guess would be, that most of these combative systems must have been mostly Western, because as far as I know, East Asian martial arts weren't popular in the west before the 1960s and 1970s (although I am guessing here, I really don't know if they even had complex martial arts in these wars).--2A02:120B:2C79:D630:4C30:3595:124C:ADBD (talk) 12:59, 7 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You might think there was no oriental influence - but the article on World War II combatives makes it clear that the training given to British troops was based on experience gained working with the Shanghai Police. You will probably have to go back to the various forms of Boxing and Wrestling to find formalised hand to hand fighting: my impression is that otherwise people just fought, using whatever methods came to hand - but without anything being codified, and without any forms of training. The military were taught to use swords, and bayonets. Fencing was a serious skill - but nothing much else. Wymspen (talk) 17:17, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Parkour? Staecker (talk) 17:36, 7 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe Pankration? I had a computer teacher in high school who ran a modern-pankration studio. He even has a Wikipedia article, Jim Arvanitis.--Jayron 32 19:00, 7 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sambo? Bartitsu? :) Or even plain boxing, if you count Mesopotamia as West, or figure that the West popularized it. 93.136.29.199 (talk) 21:13, 7 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ice brawling, as in "I went to a fight, and a hockey game broke out." Clarityfiend (talk) 06:56, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Seriously though, if you can master jerseying people first, every other technique becomes much more efficient for you, and much less for them. Sometimes a good tangle alone can end the fight without violence, only abject panic and demoralization. It's not barbaric if they're fully conscious and aware of their (immediate) surroundings. It's also not shameful to pull down an opponent's pants during a double-leg takedown, if it's purely in the pursuit of frustration and helplessness. Not cool by the Ontario Code of Honour to steal, destroy or otherwise make inaccesible such pants after the fact, though, and you do not throw another human being's shoes in the river, but shirts are always fair game, even in winter. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:02, January 8, 2018 (UTC)

Greco-Roman wrestling and its offshoots. -- Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 07:30, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Savate ? -- DanielDemaret. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.16.64.66 (talk) 09:59, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Wrasslin. About as far west as you can get. DuncanHill (talk) 22:43, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Quarterstaff: "During the 16th century quarterstaves were favoured as weapons by the London Masters of Defence. Richard Peeke, in 1625, and Zachary Wylde, in 1711, refer to the quarterstaff as a national English weapon. By the 18th century the weapon became popularly associated with gladiatorial prize playing. A modified version of quarterstaff fencing, employing bamboo or ash staves and protective equipment adapted from fencing, boxing, and cricket was revived as a sport in some London fencing schools and at the Aldershot Military Training School during the later 19th century. Works on this style were published by Thomas McCarthy and by Allanson-Winn and Phillips-Wolley". Alansplodge (talk) 10:49, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I woulds have mentioned the revivalist Company of Maisters [sic] much earlier, but the OP did say "I am aware of European Medieval Martial Arts, but I am more interested into more modern martial arts that still exist and are still taught." Since Terry Brown and his ilk are reviving mediaeval skills (which however were still practiced for exhibition purposes as late as the 19th century) rather than inventing modern ones, I thought the OP's stipulation ruled them out. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.200.41.3 (talk) 16:35, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

January 8

What sculpture is this?

W 34th St just outside Penn Station in Manhattan.[1] Imagine Reason (talk) 17:51, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It is called the mirrored "Teardrop" scultpure (no artist associated) located at 1 Penn Plaza; put in place by 34th Street Partnership: [2]. Hope this helps. Maineartists (talk) 18:11, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Is it a piece that fell off on the way to Chicago? —Tamfang (talk) 08:25, 12 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

January 9

'Foreign' TV channels in Mainland China

Television in China#Premium satellite television does have a list of some of foreign TV channels available to view in the Mainland China, but I don't think that's a complete list of such channels permitted by PRC government's SAPPRFT to be available there. For example, Hong Kong's TVB Jade and TVB Pearl are available in Guangdong Province on cable TV systems there, and (I heard that) channels like CNN International and Sky News are permitted on the condition that they are only available to hotels at certain level. But I can't find the list from the Mainland authority. JSH-alive/^{talk/cont/mail} 10:48, 9 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Au pays où se fait la guerre

According to WP, Henri Duparc's song "Au pays où se fait la guerre" on a poem by Théophile Gautier is all that remains of Duparc's opéra "Roussalka" which Duparc ended up destroying. What I don't understand is how an excerpt from an opera based on a poem by Alexander Pushkin can end up as a song on words by Théophile Gautier. Did Duparc just recycle music not words from his "Roussalka" in that song? Or did he originally include in his "Roussalka" this poem by Gautier even though the text was otherwise by Pushkin (translated to French of course)? Or yet some other explanation? Thanks, Basemetal 20:39, 9 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think most of the confusion can be cleared up with three words: "based", "poem" and "destroyed". First: the mythical tale "Rusalka" has been told in many different forms throughout folklore literature, music and other mediums. It has been set to poetry, music (opera), short story, art, etc. The Pushkin poem was just that: a poem; not an operatic libretto. It was the "basis" for which Duprac wrote a 3-Act opera: meaning, the story formed the outline, not the text. Second: since the score was "destroyed", it would seem that it may not be possible to know who contributed the text (libretto); but it obviously wasn't Pushkin since he died in 1837 and Duparc was born in 1848. Third: the song "Au pays où se fait la guerre" was written in 1869-70 with text by Théophile Gautier; some 9 to 15 years prior to the opera being written. Obviously, it was incorporated into the opera by the composer; much like other composers use text, poems, music from different sources in separate works: i.e. Bizet using the song "El Arreglito" by Spanish composer Sebastián Yradier for the Habanera in Carmen, Puccini using the melody from the Star Spangled Banner, or John Corigliano referencing Mozart in The Ghosts of Versailles. Maineartists (talk) 03:31, 10 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for these common sense answers. I find the wording in WP (here) suggests the reverse but a look at the dates should have clarified that it wasn't music from the opera that was re-used in the song but the other way around. Thanks for pointing that out. On the other hand I don't know what the basis is for the analogy you are making with the use of the Habanera in Carmen, of the Star Spangled Banner in Madama Butterfly, etc., namely that Duparc simply recycled the tune of the song in his opera (albeit in this case his own tune) as happened in those other cases. It might have been more than that (note that the song was orchestrated a few years before the opera) and he might have re-used harmony, orchestration (possibly of the orchestrated version) and, yes, maybe even text. So that brings me back to the question of the text: there still remains the question of the text of the song as used in the opera and, in particular, if they were identical. On the basis of what I find in WP I don't see any way of settling that question. If you or anyone else has any idea, that would be much appreciated. That two titles are given for the song according to WP (the other one being Absence apparently) still does not necessarily imply to me that one was the title of the published song and the other was the title of the song as used in the opera (thus suggesting at least different texts) because WP seems to be saying that Absence was the original title of the separate song itself before it was used in the opera. Incidentally I didn't mean to imply that Duparc set Pushkin's text literally, but WP seems to imply that the link between Pushkin's poem and the text of the opera is deeper than they just happen to deal with the same folk tale or there wouldn't have been any point in mentioning Pushkin's poem at all. Basemetal 06:44, 10 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

As for the precise relationship between the Pushkin poem and the libretto, I can clear that up: nobody knows. --Antiquary (talk) 18:13, 10 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Rats. I mean, thanks. But then, how is it that there's any information at all about what was in the lost opera, including that it re-used that song or the music of that song? Since that bit was added by editor Sparafucil who is still active I've just pinged him. Hopefully he or she can provide some clarification here. Basemetal 22:12, 10 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Can't help you with that, except that presumably whatever we know about this opera comes from what Duparc himself wrote about it. Letters? Memoirs?
However I have just found a book which says the song was "originally entitled Absence and intended for the opera Roussalka; Gautier; from La Comédie de la mort; 1869-1870". That certainly makes it sound like it was from the start an integral part of the opera, which would mean that the dates given in our Henri Duparc article must be wrong. La Comédie de la mort, by the way, is just the poetry collection by Gautier that includes the poem. --Antiquary (talk) 11:57, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well now, I think I'm going to have to row back on that conclusion since I can't actually find anything that suggests Roussalka was begun as early as 1869-70. Looks like "intended for the opera Roussalka" must mean that Duparc intended to incorporate his already written song "Absence/Au pays où se fait la guerre" into his new opera. In other words I'm agreeing with Maineartists. --Antiquary (talk) 13:20, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'm all in favor of double checking, having merely passed on IMSLP's data; "destroyed, except for..." doesn't seem to take account of Danse lente and one should of course be cautious about assuming the title is all that changed. NG gives much the same info but adds question marks to the dates. Btw, Gautier's Absence seems to refer to "Reviens, reviens..." Sparafucil (talk) 00:45, 13 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

January 10

Bitcoins

This might seem an odd place to ask this, but it's something that came to mind while I was watching the final episode of Major Crimes last night. The villain had transferred 15 million dollars to a personal Bitcoin Wallet. Later he was gunned down. If they addressed what happened to his Bitcoin Wallet, I didn't catch it. So my question is, if the owner of a Bitcoin Wallet dies, what happens to it? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:14, 10 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Unless someone else has access to their wallet, the amount of Bitcoin in the wallet would be considered "lost" and essentially removed from circulation. There doesn't exist any way to recover lost Bitcoin, whatsoever. https://bitcoin.org/en/faq#what-happens-when-bitcoins-are-lost RedLinkJ (talk) 22:27, 10 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The important comment there would seem to be "lost bitcoins remain dormant forever." So unless the villain shared his info with someone, there's no mechanism for anyone (including government?) to get to it. Am I correct in supposing that a Bitcoin wallet could be willed to someone, such as a relative? Or shared in some other weay? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:39, 10 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Think of it like a pirate treasure. If the map (i.e. Bitcoin wallet) is given to someone, or someone copies/steals it, they can go and excavate the treasure whenever they feel like it. But if the map is lost, the treasure is pretty much gone forever out of the circulation, and the rest of the world's supply increases in value by a tiny bit. 93.136.41.133 (talk) 05:28, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved

– Makes sense. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:18, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't this belong on the Math Desk? —Tamfang (talk) 08:27, 12 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

January 11

Article too promotional/advertising

Hello! I am writing a wikipedia article of a tattoo style 'Trash Polka'. Here is the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Trash_Polka So far it has been declined for being too promotional. I have fixed it several times and was hoping that I could be pointed out which parts are too much like an advertisement and use peacock terms. I have put many external sources as well to show that it is not for promotional purposes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Erwin Lackner (talk • contribs) 10:37, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There's probably a few minor issues, but that can be cleaned up as part of the normal open-editing process by any other editor that comes along. Users who patrol AFC tend to be far too precious about their roles as self-appointed referees of Wikipedia, and I don't see a damned thing wrong with that article being in the mainspace. I went and moved it. For the record, AFC is an optional process. If you find it confounding, you can just ignore it and go ahead and create articles however you want; there's no rule that requires it. Just be aware that new articles in the main space will be ruthlessly edited and can be deleted right away if inappropriate, so there is that. But there's no rule that says you have to use the AFC process. --Jayron 32 11:43, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The other option - and the one I think most established editors use, including myself - is to create and edit the article in a user subpage and then move it to the main space once you're comfortable with it being evaluated and edited by others. Per Jayron, you don't usually need to have anyone's permission to upload an article to main space (though it's usually not bad to get a second opinion, especially if you're new to writing articles). Matt Deres (talk) 16:13, 12 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's true, asking for help is always good; it's the culture at Wikipedia which has shifted towards making new users feel like WP:AFC is the only way to get an article created; and that if an article fails a review at AFC it is doomed. While it is true that many articles that fail WP:AFC would be deleted if they were mainspace articles, the problem is that it goes too far in the other direction. AFC reviewers should focus (IMHO) solely on whether or not an article would be deleted if in the mainspace. If it would survive AFD discussions, it should be passed on. Full stop. The normal editing process can clean up issues with tone, formatting, style and the like. AFC holds up articles for trivial reasons, and it creates a HUGE barrier to entry for new users. People ask why Wikipedia's new editor base is dying off; AFC is the reason why. New users get smacked when they try to play around a bit; a decade ago we weren't so precious with this stuff and we helped users learn how to do it right. Now, all we do is say "fuck you, you're not good enough!" with no guidance or help or mentoring or anything. AFC is a big part of that, a giant pink "fuck you" banner with no effort to help the new editor fix the problems. WP:AGF has flown out the window, and everyone assumes every new user is here to advertise some business or promote themselves, with no effort made to help people write good articles anymore. It's no wonder no one wants to start editing anymore. --Jayron 32 16:40, 12 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

January 12

Have there ever been any villains depicted as having both a right-hand man and a left-hand man?

Have there ever been any villains depicted as having both a right-hand man and a left-hand man? If so, can you please tell me the names of these villains and what fictional work they appeared in? Unboredom (talk) 19:46, 12 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean by left-hand man? "Right hand man" is known expression referring to a personal assistant (the current redirect) or closest confidante. Is it a reference to this? Matt Deres (talk) 20:07, 12 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This states that Dexter Morgan is ambidextrous. Google ambidextrous + villains for more. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 20:44, 12 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No, because then the right-hand man wouldn't know what the left-hand man was doing. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:41, 12 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There can be only one ... second banana. [OR alert] In fiction, criminal organizations tend to be very hierarchical. See for example SPECTRE#By hierarchy (where the expression "number one with a bullet" really means something) or The Prisoner ("You are number six.") or Dr. Evil's Number 2. If you had two immediate (ambitious) subordinates with the same rank, that would just be asking for trouble. They'd both be scheming to replace you. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:43, 12 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It occurred to me to look for stories where the main henchmen are twins (which perhaps balances out the potential competitiveness). A search threw up the Kabuki twins (henchman of The Penguin in Batman) and twin henchmen of the Merovingian from The Matrix Reloaded. Wymspen (talk) 16:21, 13 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

In Batman and Harley Quinn, Two-Face has twin henchmen Min and Max. In The Perils of Penelope Pitstop, the Hooded Claw has twin henchmen "The Bully Brothers". Octopussy has twin henchmen Mischka and Grischka. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇} 21:06, 13 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

January 13

Websites

Im Impatient With tv.com so any 3 Other Websites atleast can b Useful?(2601:204:D401:6653:EDE2:8ECE:F3AB:93C7 (talk) 00:33, 14 January 2018 (UTC)).[reply]

Have you tried to Google the subject like I told you to? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:46, 14 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Im Impatient becuz Too much Links Hurt my Eyes so Y can’t You Nicely b Helpful providing 3 Links atleast?(2601:204:D401:6653:EDE2:8ECE:F3AB:93C7 (talk) 02:01, 14 January 2018 (UTC)).[reply]

In the amount of time you've spent arguing and rebooting your PC to get new IP addresses to evade blocks, you could have done the work. If you're not willing to do the work, then go away. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:03, 14 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I went to Sleep believing You wer Sending me Links so If You Giv me atleast 3 Good Links, then I’ll Leav You Alone You Hav my Word.(2601:204:D401:6653:EDE2:8ECE:F3AB:93C7 (talk) 02:06, 14 January 2018 (UTC)).[reply]

You're evading several blocks, which is against the rules. You need to go away and stay away. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:10, 14 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone explain the difference between these two songs?

Number one is a bit obscure, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyCsHwlBqfU from the Anime series "Shoujo Shuumatsu Ryokou". The other is Cups (song) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmSbXsFE3l8 I'm sure the first is based on the second one, just wondering what a musicologist would say. Rhythm? Melody?

Joepnl (talk) 03:57, 14 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]